With the US now on speaking terms with Iran, I woke up this morning thinking the Israelis were pretty quiet, and when that happens things usually get noisy shortly thereafter.
But by this evening we're hearing from them and it's not surprising.
QuoteJust days after the first conversation between the leaders of the U.S. and Iran in 34 years was hailed as a "breakthrough" in relations between the two countries, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is taking an unpopular message to the White House and the United Nations: Don't be fooled by Tehran's "sweet talk."
Netanyahu, who contends Iran is using conciliatory gestures as a smoke screen to conceal an unabated march toward a nuclear bomb, will meet with President Obama Monday to deliver strong words of caution to the U.S.
"I will tell the truth in the face of the sweet talk and the onslaught of smiles," Netanyahu said before boarding his flight to the U.S. on Sunday. "Telling the truth today is vital for the security and peace of the world and, of course, it is vital for the security of the state of Israel."
My question is, how long does Obama have to produce results? The talking heads on TV are now saying that Iran is within months of acquiring a nuke. I don't think any of us believes Israel will stand for that. So there are two questions. Whether the US gets on board with any action if these talks don't produce anything - and I'll go on record as saying they won't. And how long the dog and pony show can go on before we call BS.
Thoughts?
If they really are months away the smoke screen is both ways. Better to catch them flat footed as the ordinance drops on the nuke sites.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on September 29, 2013, 09:33:30 PM
If they really are months away the smoke screen is both ways. Better to catch them flat footed as the ordinance drops on the nuke sites.
I hope you're right.
Obama seems like he actually might be bright enough to recognize the Iranian nuke threat for what it is. If that's the case, I won't begrudge him for giving diplomacy one last chance before the fur starts to fly.
However, if he's stalling and intends to let Iran develop one? Well, I don't have words to describe that kind of stupidity.
What concerns me is that an Israeli strike on he ran might be nuclear. They may be thinking that Iran's program is too well fortified for conventional strikes.
I dont think Israel will go with a nuclear option. they have a lot of options to use before that.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on September 30, 2013, 08:19:54 AM
I dont think Israel will go with a nuclear option. they have a lot of options to use before that.
Yeah.
They know that if they go nuke first, no one will get their back.
That being said, they are between a rock and a hard place. If Israel gets nuked first... well... shit, can they even afford to be nuked first??!! The country's as big as a postage stamp! Maybe AR has a point!
That's my concern. I worry that Netanyahu many view Iran's nuclear program as an existential threat to Israel and therefore a nuclear strike that alienates Israel from the world may be his only option. Just a fear of mine.
I just did one of those online nuke blast simulators. They could nuke Tel Aviv and not hit Jerusalem. I didn't check the prevailing winds.
I'm assuming that they'd never nuke Jerusalem. Not that they care about the lives of their co-religionists, I just don't think that they'd want to damage a holy place.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on September 30, 2013, 08:48:09 AM
That's my concern. I worry that Netanyahu many view Iran's nuclear program as an existential threat to Israel and therefore a nuclear strike that alienates Israel from the world may be his only option. Just a fear of mine.
Obama is the wild card here.
I want to believe he knows what he's doing. Past performance makes me doubt.
So long as he isn't surrounded by a cadre of yes-men (and women), then there is no need to worry.
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 30, 2013, 11:53:48 AM
So long as he isn't surrounded by a cadre of yes-men (and women), then there is no need to worry.
Seriously? That's his biggest problem. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.
Quote from: LongBlade on September 30, 2013, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 30, 2013, 11:53:48 AM
So long as he isn't surrounded by a cadre of yes-men (and women), then there is no need to worry.
Seriously? That's his biggest problem. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.
Wouldn't the top bureaucrat (I mean the one who earned their job, not one the one who won a popularity contest and got elected/appointed) in the State Department be able to inject some stable balance?
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 30, 2013, 12:33:24 PM
Wouldn't the top bureaucrat (I mean the one who earned their job, not one the one who won a popularity contest and got elected/appointed) in the State Department be able to inject some stable balance?
I only know what I read. Bob Woodward's book claimed that Obama rarely listens to anyone. His words: he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.
That's great for community organizing. Somewhat dubious when you're playing with Iranian nuke development.
The only think I hate more than being wrong about stuff like this is being right.
I hope I'm wrong. I really, really do.
why would Iran nuke Israel? do you believe their bs talk? why would a cleric tyranny chose to destruct itself?
Even North Korea, which by my standards is way worse then Iran, never used their nuke.
the biggest use of their nuke is the political power it gives them. nobody fucks with them because of their nuke.
i can only imagine them using it if everything goes down the drain for them anyway.
Iran is not nearly as much a tyrant on their own poeple as NK. they are a regional power and if they would manage to normalize the international relations they could be a powerfull islamic country.
Quote from: Keunert on September 30, 2013, 01:50:23 PM
why would Iran nuke Israel? do you believe their bs talk? why would a cleric tyranny chose to destruct itself?
Do a search on 13th imam and Iran.
The simple answer is: why shouldn't we take them at their word? Why would they say something they didn't mean? We need only look back in history a few decades to find someone scapegoating Jews for their problems. That turned out not to be idle banter.
those situations aren't comparable. Israel is a powerfull nation with one of the worlds best armies, nuclear warheads and powerful allies.
an attack on them, nuclear or not will trigger an international reaction that will end Iran's regime. attacking Israel is a suicide mission.
you may be able to destroy most of it if they let you strike first but you will be destroyed too.
that is of course easily said by a european in a safe zone. but i have some hope that those talks will lead to some form of de - escalation. the us and israel will surely keep their watch up. but maybe Iran could change in their nuclear weapons program for an economical relaxation and economic growth. that could strengthen the regime after years of stagnation.
Quote from: Keunert on September 30, 2013, 04:03:24 PM
those situations aren't comparable.
Iran is the largest state sponsor of terror on the planet.
Personally I wouldn't bet my life on that assumption.
Quote from: LongBlade on September 30, 2013, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: Keunert on September 30, 2013, 01:50:23 PM
why would Iran nuke Israel? do you believe their bs talk? why would a cleric tyranny chose to destruct itself?
Do a search on 13th imam and Iran.
The simple answer is: why shouldn't we take them at their word? Why would they say something they didn't mean? We need only look back in history a few decades to find someone scapegoating Jews for their problems. That turned out not to be idle banter.
Just look prior to the beginning of WWII to see cHamberlain refusing to believe Hitler was going to do the shit he was talking about. That is a very bad mistake to ever repeat. That is why I thout Amajad was so dangerous when he did his 'wipe off the map' speech.
well Israels position is now firmly stated. not a bad speech at all.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 01, 2013, 11:40:48 AM
well Israels position is now firmly stated. not a bad speech at all.
Contrast that with the clear lies the Iranians have been telling: they have no nuke weapons programs.
I guess it's still OK to talk, but the Iranians must immediately speak truthfully or it's not worth the bother. I'd give them 30 seconds to admit what they're up to and walk away if they failed. End of story.
everybody is lying in diplomatics. there are many lives on the plate here no harm in talking. the us and israel will stay as alerted as ever.
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 30, 2013, 12:33:24 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on September 30, 2013, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 30, 2013, 11:53:48 AM
So long as he isn't surrounded by a cadre of yes-men (and women), then there is no need to worry.
Seriously? That's his biggest problem. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.
Wouldn't the top bureaucrat (I mean the one who earned their job, not one the one who won a popularity contest and got elected/appointed) in the State Department be able to inject some stable balance?
most of them are actually marines, or they work for NASA or the NOAA
who?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 02, 2013, 11:06:26 PM
who?
slight dig at LB... let him explain what NOAA is... if he can type and not throw up in his mouth at the same time
Im a Floridian (blah), I know who NOAA are. theyre the dipshits that keep messing up hurricane forecasts.
Quote from: Windigo on October 02, 2013, 11:41:21 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 02, 2013, 11:06:26 PM
who?
slight dig at LB... let him explain what NOAA is... if he can type and not throw up in his mouth at the same time
<chuckle>
SEE! I can be respectful... and funny about someone else's opinions ....
File this under "tell us how you really feel"...
QuoteDuring a panel at Yeshiva University on Tuesday evening, Sheldon Adelson, noted businessman and owner of the newspaper Israel Hayom, suggested that the US should use nuclear weapons on Iran to impose its demands from a position of strength.
Asked by moderator Rabbi Shmuley Boteach whether the US should negotiate with Iran if it were to cease its uranium enrichment program, Adelson retorted, "What are we going to negotiate about?"
Adelson then imagined what might happen if an American official were to call up an Iranian official, say "watch this," and subsequently drop a nuclear bomb in the middle of the Iranian desert.
"Then you say, 'See! The next one is in the middle of Tehran. So, we mean business. You want to be wiped out? Go ahead and take a tough position and continue with your nuclear development. You want to be peaceful? Just reverse it all, and we will guarantee you that you can have a nuclear power plant for electricity purposes, energy purposes'," Adelson said
Source: http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Adelson-US-should-drop-atomic-bomb-on-Iran-329641
Ha,
That's too funny!
Maybe we should drop a few nukes in the middle of the Sinai and tell the Arabs and Israel that if you don't play nice we will wipe you all out.
wont work with Israel as they have nuclear armed subs.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2013, 08:32:42 PM
wont work with Israel as they have nuclear armed subs.
damn, I better get back to the work library and start reading Janes again
While our healthcare system has been melting down, our foreign policy has been quietly attempting to come to an agreement where sanctions could be lifted on Iran.
The French (of all people!1!!!1) have balked.
QuoteNegotiations among world powers to temporarily curb Iran's nuclear program appeared to stall Saturday when France questioned whether the proposal went far enough, after Israel's strong objections to such an agreement.
The concerns cast doubt about whether an agreement can be reached during the current round of negotiations in Geneva.
A Western diplomat said a new round would be needed to agree on all points of a temporary deal that would to lead to a comprehensive agreement ensuring that Tehran's nuclear work remains peaceful.
source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/09/world-powers-set-for-new-round-iran-nuke-talks/
The only way this works is if there is a fail safe way by outsiders to determine and enforce Iran's nuclear use for peaceful purposes. Any ideas what that would look like? It would have to be automatic, not some governing council or watchdog agency.
Wow. Never saw this coming ::)
QuoteEven before the nuclear negotiations between Iran and the 5+1 world powers ended in Geneva early Sunday with no deal, an Iranian general lashed out at America Saturday and warned both the U.S. and Israel that they will be attacked.
According to Fars News Agency, the regime's outlet run by the Revolutionary Guards, Gen. Massoud Jazayeri, deputy chief of staff of Iran's armed forces, said "America's interests and all of Israel are within the range of the Islamic Republic and there is not the slightest doubt among Iran's armed forces to confront the American government and the Zionists (Israel)."
Jazayeri said Israel is pulling the strings of Washington and "the American government is one of the most hated and evil governments in the world."
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/09/iran-general-no-doubt-israel-and-america-will-be-attacked/#ixzz2kIduMBtO
I really hate to see it come to this but it's time to 'unfriend' that guy. I know it's harsh but what else can we do at this point?
perhaps its for mullah consumption more so then an actual diplomatic statement.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 10, 2013, 09:27:58 PM
perhaps its for mullah consumption more so then an actual diplomatic statement.
Does it really matter?
The Arabs do that all the time with the Palestinians. How's that working out?
Quote from: LongBlade on November 10, 2013, 09:22:17 PM
Wow. Never saw this coming ::)
QuoteEven before the nuclear negotiations between Iran and the 5+1 world powers ended in Geneva early Sunday with no deal, an Iranian general lashed out at America Saturday and warned both the U.S. and Israel that they will be attacked.
According to Fars News Agency, the regime's outlet run by the Revolutionary Guards, Gen. Massoud Jazayeri, deputy chief of staff of Iran's armed forces, said "America's interests and all of Israel are within the range of the Islamic Republic and there is not the slightest doubt among Iran's armed forces to confront the American government and the Zionists (Israel)."
Jazayeri said Israel is pulling the strings of Washington and "the American government is one of the most hated and evil governments in the world."
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/09/iran-general-no-doubt-israel-and-america-will-be-attacked/#ixzz2kIduMBtO
guy must of wanted an iPod for Christmas....
the Daily Caller is a right-wing rag run by Fox News host Tucker Carlson.
I'll believe this story once a reputable and ethical news source runs it.
Iran backed out of nuclear deal - John Kerry
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24895911
"US Secretary of State John Kerry has said Iran backed out of a deal on its nuclear programme during talks with world powers in Geneva on Saturday.
Amid reports that France's reservations scuppered an agreement, Mr Kerry told reporters in Abu Dhabi: "The French signed off on it; we signed off on it."
Iran had been unable to accept the deal "at that particular moment", he added.
Mr Kerry said he hoped in the next few months they could "find an agreement that meets everyone's standards".
Representatives from Iran and the so-called P5+1 - the US, UK, France, Russia and China plus Germany - will meet again on 20 November."
There has been a denial that the Western camp was divided, not least from the US Secretary of State John Kerry himself.
Speaking in the UAE, he noted that France was as much on board as the other Western players. It was Iran, he said, that "couldn't take it at that particular moment".
Mark Hibbs, a Berlin-based nuclear expert, says that might be a diplomatic way of minimising the tensions in the Western camp.
However, he believes the outcome in Geneva was by no means a fiasco. Not only the French, but others in the Western camp, were uneasy at the sudden breakneck pace of the talks.
As Mr Hibbs puts it: "Some of the Europeans were concerned that Washington was moving forward at a pace with which they were not comfortable."
Iranian deputy industry minister shot dead.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24892869
"An unknown attacker has shot dead Iran's deputy industry minister.
Safdar Rahmatabadi was driving in Tehran's Sabalan Square late on Sunday when he was shot once in the head and once in the chest, the state news agency IRNA reported.
A police officer told the agency that the attacker appeared to have been inside Mr Rahmatabadi's vehicle and spoke to him before opening fire.
There was no speculation as to why the deputy minister was targeted.
Police said they had begun an investigation. No group immediately claimed responsibility for the attack.
Assassinations of officials are not unheard of in Iran, in particular scientists connected with the country's nuclear programme. In January 2012 a car bomb killed university lecturer Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan, who also worked at the Natanz uranium enrichment facility."
Quote from: Dolan50 on November 11, 2013, 12:33:32 AM
I'll believe this story once a reputable and ethical news source runs it.
Does Fars count? http://farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13920818000226
(Granted, I can't read any form of Arabic; this could be about some general's plans to use his troops to build dams and other non-nuclear national infrastructure projects, for all I know...)
Quote from: Dolan50 on November 11, 2013, 09:56:50 AM
Iranian deputy industry minister shot dead.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24892869
"An unknown attacker has shot dead Iran's deputy industry minister.
Safdar Rahmatabadi was driving in Tehran's Sabalan Square late on Sunday when he was shot once in the head and once in the chest, the state news agency IRNA reported.
A police officer told the agency that the attacker appeared to have been inside Mr Rahmatabadi's vehicle and spoke to him before opening fire.
There was no speculation as to why the deputy minister was targeted.
Police said they had begun an investigation. No group immediately claimed responsibility for the attack.
Assassinations of officials are not unheard of in Iran, in particular scientists connected with the country's nuclear programme. In January 2012 a car bomb killed university lecturer Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan, who also worked at the Natanz uranium enrichment facility."
I saw that yesterday on either Fox or DailyCaller.com. Of course I knew it was bogus instantly. ::)
You can push the rights agenda all you like!
But don't expect me to swallow any of the garbage that these yellow journalist are selling without looking deeper into the story.
Fox isn't an ethical news source and as far as I'm concerned the Daily Caller is nothing more than the right-wings answer to the lefts Huffington post.
I'm neither Right or Left or Demo or Repub. and consider the source before I come to my own conclusions.
I generally stick to my own agenda 8)
The Fars News Agency (FNA) is a news agency in Iran.
While it describes itself as "Iran's leading independent news agency", news organizations such as CNN and Reuter describe it as a "semi-official" news agency with ties to the government.The Wall Street Journal has stated the agency is affiliated with the Revolutionary Guard Corps.
Fars news looks to me like the radical US equivalent of Fox news with its fondness for yellow journalistic propagandist spin,which it often uses to sell its readers more what they want to hear rather than actually reporting the facts and confirming the information they supposedly pass off as news.
I would go as far to say that you can expect the same kind 1/2 truths and disinformation from Fars as you could from Fox if a Republican was sitting in the White House right now.
Much like the same type of garbage being spun by Time,Huffington Post and MSNBC presently in this country.
Quote from: Dolan50 on November 11, 2013, 02:23:19 PM
Fars news looks to me like the radical US equivalent of Fox news with its fondness for yellow journalistic propagandist spin,which it often uses to sell its readers more what they want to hear rather than actually reporting the facts and confirming the information they supposedly pass off as news.
I would go as far to say that you can expect the same kind 1/2 truths and disinformation from Fars as you could from Fox if a Republican was sitting in the White House right now.
orly?
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"Even before the nuclear negotiations between Iran and the 5+1 world powers ended in Geneva early Sunday with no deal, an Iranian general lashed out at America Saturday and warned both the U.S. and Israel that they will be attacked.
According to Fars News Agency, the regime's outlet run by the Revolutionary Guards, Gen. Massoud Jazayeri, deputy chief of staff of Iran's armed forces, said "America's interests and all of Israel are within the range of the Islamic Republic and there is not the slightest doubt among Iran's armed forces to confront the American government and the Zionists (Israel)."
You would think this would be very important news and the rest of the major world news sources or at least the news world that still has some semblance of ethical journalistic integrity would be all over this story.
Yet,they seem to be very disinterested in this revelation.
Could it be that they find the so called news agencies involved unreliable?
Quote from: Dolan50 on November 11, 2013, 02:23:19 PM
The Fars News Agency (FNA) is a news agency in Iran.
While it describes itself as "Iran's leading independent news agency", news organizations such as CNN and Reuter describe it as a "semi-official" news agency with ties to the government.The Wall Street Journal has stated the agency is affiliated with the Revolutionary Guard Corps.
Yes, I know, that information was in the article you were previously deriding as bogus. ;)
The point is that when a news agency heavily affiliated with propaganda for the state and especially the chief military arm of the state, puts up a story like this, it doesn't matter whether the quote is bogus or not: the state is telling its people (and maybe those outside its borders) what kind of narrative to expect. In other words, this is
one "official" government position being accurately reported by the government's own propaganda arm, precisely
because the apparatchiks are writing the text, and says something about their intentions, even if their intentions should be regarded more as wishful thinking than strictly literal.
My point was I don't think they speak for everyone in the government or even the majority of the Iranian people,no more than Fox speaks for everyone in our government or the majority of the people in the US.
I find neither Fox news or Fars news credible or ethical.
And think Fars is a propaganda tool used by certain fringe elements of the government to get their message out the same way Fox promotes the Republican agenda.
I also found no reference about this so called attack on the US or Israel in regards to the nuclear peace initiative this weekend,but did find a similar statement made by Fars a few months ago in regards to any kind of attack by the US or Israel if ever a first strike attack was made on their nuclear sites in Iran.
I have no doubts that there are war mongers in Iran just like the ones we have here,that have no problems with distorting the truth as long it coincides with their agenda.
I also know that wars and rumors of war have a strange way of galvanizing people towards your way of thinking and fear will always be a tool for these types of people.
"The first casualty of war is the truth!"