In case you didn't see, the long awaited Civil War game from the makers of Forge of Freedom is accepting beta testers. This game focuses on the tactical aspects of the Civil War.
Link to beta sign up
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/announcement.asp?id=22
Link to forum that discusses it
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=808
Liked forge of freedom.. but not a fan of the company that drops support on their products... not like AGEOD! 8)
Quote from: Tuna on October 07, 2013, 07:10:58 PM
Liked forge of freedom.. but not a fan of the company that drops support on their products... not like AGEOD! 8)
Don't mention Ageod....I am still wavering as to whether to pickup acw2:)
Haven't grabbed it yet, but definitely plan to. But look at ACW 1.. They released a patch last December.. pretty darn good for an 'old' game.. but they always keep working and supporting their games..
I am interested in the game but don't have the time to play, even less play-test....unfortunately.
Quote from: Tuna on October 07, 2013, 07:10:58 PM
Liked forge of freedom.. but not a fan of the company that drops support on their products... not like AGEOD! 8)
I kind of agree with this. Forge of Freedom was an outstanding game and I had many hours of fun with it...but I mentioned several times about a patch for resolution and they never would do one.
All it needed was a patch to remove the fixed res. I know - it sounds easier than it probably was - but Matrix should've invested time in it.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 08, 2013, 01:58:33 AM
Quote from: Tuna on October 07, 2013, 07:10:58 PM
Liked forge of freedom.. but not a fan of the company that drops support on their products... not like AGEOD! 8)
I kind of agree with this. Forge of Freedom was an outstanding game and I had many hours of fun with it...but I mentioned several times about a patch for resolution and they never would do one.
All it needed was a patch to remove the fixed res. I know - it sounds easier than it probably was - but Matrix should've invested time in it.
Not sure I agree with the comment that they didn't support this game and it begs the question; how long should a company continue to put time and money into supporting a game? FoF goes back 7 years now and from what I can see from the product page it was patched/updated 4 times between 2006-2009. I would consider that pretty good support. Does a company have an obligation to go back to 7 year old games and improve the resolutions? The resolution issue doesn't affect me but it is a big issue for others so I can understand your concerns.
My beef wasn't that they didn't support the game.
The game (imo) was a masterpiece. I loved it. But the lack of resolution options ruined it for me. Almost straight out the bat (yeah - 7 years ago) the res was on it's last legs.
The company is a great company and their game was fantastic - but not updating the resolution - not putting the time into that - really bit me.
I believe that this would have been a huge amount of work. If you don't include this from the beginning, it's not worthy to do it. Many older games had fixed resolutions (f.e.Master of Orion III, i remember i complained on the forums back then and they explained it to me) or just a couple of options (f.e. Celtic Kings: punic wars).
Nowadays it's fairly common but it's difficult to blame them for this.
It isn't difficult for me :P
I know it was a great amount of work...I was told so several times by eric...but it ruined the game for me. I simply cannot play it the way it looks...I've tried and I can't.
I got my money's worth - that's all I can say.
I understand very well your point and there are various games i would love to see with more resolution (Celtic King games are among my all time favorite games)...
A game gets to a "look" point where I have to move on. I didn't just pay all that money for a gaming rig to look like I'm playing a game from 2000.
Not that that's the devs fault - though you could argue, given the multitude of resolutions even available back then that fixed resolution just should never have been an option.
I'll keep my eye on this. Fixed res is definitely out the window. But I'd be hard pressed to NOT buy their game if it's a remaster of Forge of Freedom...but I don't know that's the case as the last time I checked the forum it was very, VERY quiet.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 08, 2013, 10:21:20 AM
Not that that's the devs fault - though you could argue, given the multitude of resolutions even available back then that fixed resolution just should never have been an option.
Fully agree...i think it was bad planning. A funny thing thougth, is that screens used to rather squares and they are becoming more and more rectangular....i guess nobody knew where this was going to go.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 08, 2013, 01:58:33 AM
I kind of agree with this. Forge of Freedom was an outstanding game and I had many hours of fun with it...but I mentioned several times about a patch for resolution and they never would do one.
All it needed was a patch to remove the fixed res. I know - it sounds easier than it probably was - but Matrix should've invested time in it.
Totally not a patch. A patch is to fix bugs. We did that with Forge of Freedom and actually kept development going long after release. The final comprehensive update added so many things that we made a new promotional video to mark its release. Changing what an engine will or will not support is not trivial and allowing FOF to support multiple resolutions was way beyond what could reasonably be done as a post-release update or expected. It was sold as a fixed resolution game and designed, engine and art, around that. You were asking for months of additional work.
Brother against Brother does support higher resolutions though.
Regards,
- Erik
Quote from: Rayfer on October 08, 2013, 08:12:36 AM
Not sure I agree with the comment that they didn't support this game and it begs the question; how long should a company continue to put time and money into supporting a game? FoF goes back 7 years now and from what I can see from the product page it was patched/updated 4 times between 2006-2009. I would consider that pretty good support. Does a company have an obligation to go back to 7 year old games and improve the resolutions? The resolution issue doesn't affect me but it is a big issue for others so I can understand your concerns.
Thank you - I don't understand the comment about not supporting it either. The amount of support FOF received was well above and beyond what most titles get.
Regards,
- Erik
But the game is no longer supported, at a premium price...
Some games at Matrix enjoy many continuing years of support, maybe due to fan base...
But look at like WITP.. if you can do the Resolution Change for WITP AE.. Then why not also provide it for WITP...
If you no longer support it, that's fine.. but still doesn't have to retain a ridiculous price in that case..
I owned and enjoyed FOF, and have highly spoken of it in many threads... But it is one of those company's where support just stops.
So be it.. but for me, that is a mark against. Especially when compared to a company like AGEOD.
Quote from: ERutins on October 08, 2013, 11:46:44 AM
Quote from: Rayfer on October 08, 2013, 08:12:36 AM
Not sure I agree with the comment that they didn't support this game and it begs the question; how long should a company continue to put time and money into supporting a game? FoF goes back 7 years now and from what I can see from the product page it was patched/updated 4 times between 2006-2009. I would consider that pretty good support. Does a company have an obligation to go back to 7 year old games and improve the resolutions? The resolution issue doesn't affect me but it is a big issue for others so I can understand your concerns.
Thank you - I don't understand the comment about not supporting it either. The amount of support FOF received was well above and beyond what most titles get.
Regards,
- Erik
I think some of the lack of support is tied to forum activity. On many of the older games, there are questions on gameplay or support issues that go unreponded to for long periods of time if ever. Right or wrong this really gives the perception that there is no longer official support for the game. Patches and upgrades fall into the same catagory, but I think most people expect that eventually the patch spigot gets shut off. The other point to take away is the price point. If someone spend $50-60 on a game like FoF, there is a reasonable expectation that they can go the forum ask a question or for technical assistance and get a response in a timely manner. Unfortunately that just isn't the case with many older titles. Perception is reality is what I've always been taught. Just my two cents.
Btw FoF is my favorite ACW game and has been worth every penny.
Quote from: ERutins on October 08, 2013, 11:44:21 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 08, 2013, 01:58:33 AM
I kind of agree with this. Forge of Freedom was an outstanding game and I had many hours of fun with it...but I mentioned several times about a patch for resolution and they never would do one.
All it needed was a patch to remove the fixed res. I know - it sounds easier than it probably was - but Matrix should've invested time in it.
Totally not a patch. A patch is to fix bugs. We did that with Forge of Freedom and actually kept development going long after release. The final comprehensive update added so many things that we made a new promotional video to mark its release. Changing what an engine will or will not support is not trivial and allowing FOF to support multiple resolutions was way beyond what could reasonably be done as a post-release update or expected. It was sold as a fixed resolution game and designed, engine and art, around that. You were asking for months of additional work.
Brother against Brother does support higher resolutions though.
Regards,
- Erik
Well all I saw was my beloved game "not enjoyable" - and that made me a sad gamer :'(
I just went over to the Matrix forums for this game and see there a couple of screenshots, looks very much like the FoF tactical battles engine though it is supposed to be improved and enhanced. Definitely one I want to follow.
that looks incredibly like Forge of Freedom!! Not necessarily a bad imo
I think anyone who liked FOF will like BAB, especially the PBEM mode. I've already had some fantastic PBEM battles with other testers.
Quote from: Tuna on October 08, 2013, 12:02:32 PM
But the game is no longer supported, at a premium price...
Some games at Matrix enjoy many continuing years of support, maybe due to fan base...
But look at like WITP.. if you can do the Resolution Change for WITP AE.. Then why not also provide it for WITP...
If you no longer support it, that's fine.. but still doesn't have to retain a ridiculous price in that case..
I owned and enjoyed FOF, and have highly spoken of it in many threads... But it is one of those company's where support just stops.
So be it.. but for me, that is a mark against. Especially when compared to a company like AGEOD.
You have to buy AE as a separate product. Maybe a FoF2 should be made after BaB
Quote from: jomni on October 08, 2013, 07:49:53 PM
Quote from: Tuna on October 08, 2013, 12:02:32 PM
But the game is no longer supported, at a premium price...
Some games at Matrix enjoy many continuing years of support, maybe due to fan base...
But look at like WITP.. if you can do the Resolution Change for WITP AE.. Then why not also provide it for WITP...
If you no longer support it, that's fine.. but still doesn't have to retain a ridiculous price in that case..
I owned and enjoyed FOF, and have highly spoken of it in many threads... But it is one of those company's where support just stops.
So be it.. but for me, that is a mark against. Especially when compared to a company like AGEOD.
You have to buy AE as a separate product. Maybe a FoF2 should be made after BaB
I already own both, I would prefer to play vanilla in higher resolution, just like AE.. Right now, I don't play either, because I would prefer vanilla's lesser micromanagement over AE.. so I don't play either.. so chock up as a big waste of money for me.. so when people say.. oh you get your money's worth (and I'm sure some people do).. I didnt... Fof would be good to get into again.. but no it's resolution is in the dark ages as well.
Now FSX, that's a different story!... lol.. and I think it's gonna cost me more!
Forge of Freedom is a great game at any screen resolution.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 08, 2013, 01:58:33 AM
Quote from: Tuna on October 07, 2013, 07:10:58 PM
Liked forge of freedom.. but not a fan of the company that drops support on their products... not like AGEOD! 8)
I kind of agree with this. Forge of Freedom was an outstanding game and I had many hours of fun with it...but I mentioned several times about a patch for resolution and they never would do one.
All it needed was a patch to remove the fixed res. I know - it sounds easier than it probably was - but Matrix should've invested time in it.
My solution for this with Crown of Glory was to install VMware's free VMware player, create a windows XP VM, and run Crown of Glory inside there. It should work for FoF as well.
Hi Vyshka,
Could you elaborate on that?
I understand everyone's points here. I guess from our perspective if we provide years of additional development and improvements to the point where we consider the game to have received effectively a free expansion, it's reasonable to say that it's done and the price if justified at release remains justified until a newer/better game comes along. With that said, FOF has had many sales and discounts over the years and we also regularly answer FOF support queries. I think the disconnect is that we do not have the resources to browse every forum every day, but our Help Desk, rather than the forums, are intended as the main source of official support. If you have a problem or question with FOF or any other game that's been out for a while, please send a query to our Help Desk and I'm sure you will get support.
Regards,
- Erik
Personally I think when you categorised all the forums, you helped "kill" a lot of games and support for them, either from staff or gamers.
The way it was before, the most recent forum with the most recent post went to the top of the pile. That put it in the limelight for anyone who might have been able to help. As it ended up, they were buried. I for one never EVER went down into the depths of those forums, so if anyone was asking for help for a game I had played, I wouldn't have known.
What you did, and I understand it, was to highlight your most recent releases. But in actual fact, with the forums as they were, the new releases, if they were getting activity would always have been in the limelight anyway.
It's your business and your forums. And I remember your reasons for doing it - but it's my opinion that it did help kill support for games.
As mentioned above, we still support all our games through our Help Desk, but forum support for all forums and games is not something we have the staff to do, so we focus forum support on the most recent and active releases. The reason the forum was reorganized is simple, we were finding it impossible to navigate or find games with all the games in one long list and it also took a long time to load - and that was years ago. We were receiving regular user complaints about the size and responsiveness of the forum before the change. We have so many released games now and we want to make sure the resources available in their forums remain available, that we had to do something to keep the main forum page manageable.
I agree that games that are not on the main top level list in general see less activity, but I don't see a better solution at this time.
Regards,
- Erik
You've made some really good points Erik. I will say that few times I've needed support from matrix the support has been very quick to resolve issues. Anyway I think you are correct that as the games catalogue expands there needs to be a forum organization that helps control the clutter for lack of a better word. The one downside is that as forums get buried they become forgotten. I'd also note that because matrix, slithrine, and ageod run their own forums there can be some confusion especially for new customer as to just where to go to get the best community interaction.
Anyway it's really great to see you here and interacting with the community. Thank you for taking the time to do so.
Quote from: ERutins on October 09, 2013, 02:05:38 PM
As mentioned above, we still support all our games through our Help Desk, but forum support for all forums and games is not something we have the staff to do, so we focus forum support on the most recent and active releases. The reason the forum was reorganized is simple, we were finding it impossible to navigate or find games with all the games in one long list and it also took a long time to load - and that was years ago. We were receiving regular user complaints about the size and responsiveness of the forum before the change. We have so many released games now and we want to make sure the resources available in their forums remain available, that we had to do something to keep the main forum page manageable.
I agree that games that are not on the main top level list in general see less activity, but I don't see a better solution at this time.
Regards,
- Erik
I kind of understand - but it did kill user support. What would have been better, if the software could have managed it, was to take things out of their groups as soon as a fresh post was made - that way giving it focus to the user base.
I understand you don't have the staff to check all the forums - but by burying them as you did and giving focus to new releases, the user support was also lost. Game just died when you re-organised the forums.
And the new releases - if you look on that page today, you'll see very little activity in a lot of those forums.
The one single most effective thing in your forums for keeping games alive (and activity) was making them the focus when you looked in the forum homepage. You were immediately presented with the most active forums (on most recent post, not number of posts or age of the game).
Just my two cents.
Congratulations on the release of Flashpoint Campaigns by the way. I intend to pick it up at some point - but as you have managed to already sell me Civil War 2 and Command:Modern Air/Naval Operations in the space of 1 month at a cost of over £100, I can't justify it yet.
Quote from: ERutins on October 09, 2013, 11:19:56 AM
Hi Vyshka,
Could you elaborate on that?
I understand everyone's points here. I guess from our perspective if we provide years of additional development and improvements to the point where we consider the game to have received effectively a free expansion, it's reasonable to say that it's done and the price if justified at release remains justified until a newer/better game comes along. With that said, FOF has had many sales and discounts over the years and we also regularly answer FOF support queries. I think the disconnect is that we do not have the resources to browse every forum every day, but our Help Desk, rather than the forums, are intended as the main source of official support. If you have a problem or question with FOF or any other game that's been out for a while, please send a query to our Help Desk and I'm sure you will get support.
Regards,
- Erik
Hi Erik, the vm runs in its own window, and it will resize if some fullscreen application changes the screen resolution. So what ends up happening is I play Crown of Glory in a window (1024x768 ?) instead of having my whole screen resized. This also allows easy browsing of pdf manuals while playing.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snitselaar.org%2Fscreenshots%2FCoG-1.png&hash=a23d87f5efc0278ae5c1bcb4726ec03f060ff99f)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snitselaar.org%2Fscreenshots%2FCoG-2.png&hash=28eef5cfdb4e3813b15a51a452940e6243ac1b8c)