Active link for the poll here (http://boardgamegeek.com/article/13702245#13702245) - requires registration at BGG/VGG
Links to previous years:
2012 - http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/850101/2012-combat-mission-poll
2011 - http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/700240/2011-combat-mission-poll
what are you attempting to coallate?
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 16, 2013, 07:35:44 AM
what are you attempting to coallate?
Jay Richardson - the fellow I credit at the top of my posts - did this every year:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/609729/the-asl-survey-2011
The ASL Survey seemed like a neat idea; I thought it would be fun to do the same for the CM community. Interesting that 450 fellows self-identified as still playing ASL in 2011, and less than 1/10 that many registered users of the site could be found that both played CM and chose to participate in the CM survey that year.
Neat poll. The big shocker for me was to see that CMx1 is being played more than the newer releases, or so it's indicated as such early in this voting. I haven't yet gone to look at the past two polls to see if that was the trend then as well however.
It's good to see that people are still using The Scenario Depot II and The Proving Grounds. I've thought about letting them go over the past few years when renewal for the domain has come up but with (currently) 57% of the scenario downloads coming from them, I'm encouraged to keep them running.
I've actually been getting back in to CMx1 lately. I have a pbem going and have been playing solo on the weekends. I wouldn't mind getting (more) in to the newer engine but I find myself going back to CMx1 each time. Just a comfort level thing I'm sure.
Quote from: GJK on October 16, 2013, 07:58:51 AM
Neat poll.
I'll probably get back into CM2.X when it does the Eastern Front.
Get rid of that god awful DRM, then we can talk!:o
I tried to play CM:BfN last night...I opened up a scenario and whilst it looked delicious, I simply could not be arsed. That was made worse by two things
1. Loading up a scenario seeing a wall of units (I prefer smaller engagements) - and coming out and going back in until I find a small unit engagement
2. Seeing my units. no matter how careful you are, get hit by some weapon or other...and there's NO indication whatsoever of where that came from. They can see you but you can't see them. It might be realistic - but boy does that make for an infuriating game.
I really, really don't understand my block with these games. I want to play. I want to learn. But seemingly not enough. I've sat and watched a shed load (half a dozen?) of those Armchair General videos...now they make me want to play...then I open a scenario and see the sea of units...I try to go down to eye level to try and see what they can see - but really? For all of them?
Nah. That's two reasons why I haven't picked up Market Garden - and the other of course is the DRM. I did write and tell BF in my support mail, but they aren't interested...they'll keep it there. So be it.
Did you ever play the earlier CM games JD (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK)?
Well with mg you can sort the battles by size now. Also a unit symbol in contact will flash and generally the unit firing is visible to the unit being attacked. Yes I folded and bought mg on Sunday. Install was easy and fuss free for me.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2013, 10:00:46 AM
I tried to play CM:BfN last night...I opened up a scenario and whilst it looked delicious, I simply could not be arsed. That was made worse by two things
1. Loading up a scenario seeing a wall of units (I prefer smaller engagements) - and coming out and going back in until I find a small unit engagement
2. Seeing my units. no matter how careful you are, get hit by some weapon or other...and there's NO indication whatsoever of where that came from. They can see you but you can't see them. It might be realistic - but boy does that make for an infuriating game.
I really, really don't understand my block with these games. I want to play. I want to learn. But seemingly not enough. I've sat and watched a shed load (half a dozen?) of those Armchair General videos...now they make me want to play...then I open a scenario and see the sea of units...I try to go down to eye level to try and see what they can see - but really? For all of them?
Nah. That's two reasons why I haven't picked up Market Garden - and the other of course is the DRM. I did write and tell BF in my support mail, but they aren't interested...they'll keep it there. So be it.
I recommend using the editor to set up small situations and learning as you go on to expand to larger battles. CM2 is a very rewarding game system, well worth learning and putting up with the DRM. I have set CM2 aside for the time being -- I know it is a great system, but since I know that, I'm more interested in looking into other systems (and keeping up with must-haves like Espana and Rome II and trying out new kinds of games -- new for me anyway -- like Sir, You are being hunted.)
Learning how spotting and visibility works is essential. The game system is somewhat tricky, but pretty intuitive once you see what it is trying to show you. I only play in real time vs the AI so as things go wrong, I can stop units and send up some scouts or something. WEGo must be frustrating indeed. I can't see how or why anyone plays WEGO vs the AI. I haven't played anything but RT since Shockforce in 2007.
Quote from: Bison on October 16, 2013, 10:16:20 AM
Well with mg you can sort the battles by size now. Also a unit symbol in contact will flash and generally the unit firing is visible to the unit being attacked. Yes I folded and bought mg on Sunday. Install was easy and fuss free for me.
It can be. But when one version says you have to unregister it and another you cannot - but you only read the instructions for the latest one (which says you can't unregister) and you uninstall them all thinking that's the case for them all so you can build your new PC - you end up in a bit of a bind and waiting until their tech support get back to you (which was reasonably quick - but that is not ideal and not a situation I would like to repeat - so I'm not).
Quote from: MengJiao on October 16, 2013, 10:20:05 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2013, 10:00:46 AM
I tried to play CM:BfN last night...I opened up a scenario and whilst it looked delicious, I simply could not be arsed. That was made worse by two things
1. Loading up a scenario seeing a wall of units (I prefer smaller engagements) - and coming out and going back in until I find a small unit engagement
2. Seeing my units. no matter how careful you are, get hit by some weapon or other...and there's NO indication whatsoever of where that came from. They can see you but you can't see them. It might be realistic - but boy does that make for an infuriating game.
I really, really don't understand my block with these games. I want to play. I want to learn. But seemingly not enough. I've sat and watched a shed load (half a dozen?) of those Armchair General videos...now they make me want to play...then I open a scenario and see the sea of units...I try to go down to eye level to try and see what they can see - but really? For all of them?
Nah. That's two reasons why I haven't picked up Market Garden - and the other of course is the DRM. I did write and tell BF in my support mail, but they aren't interested...they'll keep it there. So be it.
I recommend using the editor to set up small situations and learning as you go on to expand to larger battles. CM2 is a very rewarding game system, well worth learning and putting up with the DRM. I have set CM2 aside for the time being -- I know it is a great system, but since I know that, I'm more interested in looking into other systems (and keeping up with must-haves like Espana and Rome II and trying out new kinds of games -- new for me anyway -- like Sir, You are being hunted.)
Learning how spotting and visibility works is essential. The game system is somewhat tricky, but pretty intuitive once you see what it is trying to show you. I only play in real time vs the AI so as things go wrong, I can stop units and send up some scouts or something. WEGo must be frustrating indeed. I can't see how or why anyone plays WEGO vs the AI. I haven't played anything but RT since Shockforce in 2007.
The editor is a pita...having to select an entire force and removing units...and quick battles always seemed rubbish in setup and playout to me.
Real time for me since Shock Force also.
Which game? Cmbn has never had the option to unlicense, which ill agree is stupid. However I've installed it on numerous systems without much hassle beyond having to request an additional key once. That was annoying, but it was a quick process to get.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2013, 10:39:32 AM
The editor is a pita...having to select an entire force and removing units...and quick battles always seemed rubbish in setup and playout to me.
Real time for me since Shock Force also.
The editor isn't that bad. If you want small battles and want to vary them to learn the game, the editor is the only way to go.
Quote from: GJK on October 16, 2013, 10:12:09 AM
Did you ever play the earlier CM games JD (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK)?
Yes. Enjoyed quite a few battles on them.
I certainly don't remember them being as unforgiving as the new system.
I started with 3x4 scout cars last night - nothing else. I checked the ground from ground level and saw where I wanted to place my scout cars so they could oversee the objective (it was my objective to recce) and BAM! BAM! - 2 down in flames within a short space of time...and not a SINGLE indication of where the fire came from. Not even a guess! Just 2 flaming heaps. When the first one was hit, I was hoping for some kind of indication as to direction of fire from the other two...but nope. Then the second got hit. I was lucky enough to reverse the 3rd out of there, moved him along the ridge and creep back up - and soon after - BAM! down he goes!
If I can't find the enemy without suffering 100% losses I don't really know what the game is trying to get me to achieve. I don't see what I could've done different given the AG video about OCOKA
Anyway - as per the norm, got bored, came out and moved on. Harder grogs might have stayed - but I try and game for fun. When it's a chore (and I don't mean losing...I mean when the gameplay seems to be missing) then I just move on. No doubt I'll fire it up in a month or two again.
Strangely enough I never found Shock Force as infuriating. Maybe I should just stick to that.
Quote from: Bison on October 16, 2013, 10:44:23 AM
Which game? Cmbn has never had the option to unlicense, which ill agree is stupid. However I've installed it on numerous systems without much hassle beyond having to request an additional key once. That was annoying, but it was a quick process to get.
I have CMSF, Marines, Brits, NATO, Afghanistan, CM:BfN v2, CM:BfN CW and CM:FI installed. I read the manual (I guess it was from CM:BFN or FI) about uninstalling and (unbeknownst to me) it wasn't the same instructions for all games. When I came to reinstall my games, the Shock Force boys didn't want to work - the whole collection.
I think I was back up and running in a couple of days - but that really is not the point. I think I posted their response on here somewhere - but whilst it wasn't rude - it certainly wasn't that pleasing to read. Something about if you do it again you might have to re-buy the products - then there was a bit of a back peddle about they hadn't ever charged anyone for the games again because they inadvertently didn't uninstall the product correctly - but the implication was there that it's their right to do so.
Personally I thought rather than have me hassle you, why not just allow me to install my freaking game I bought from you. But there you go. I think that's a bit simple.
And my highlight in bold in your post - it never bothered me before and I was quite happy to plod along with their products and their DRM. Then It affected me and I thought "That's it". So - that is it for me. I explained to whomever it was I was speaking to in the tech support about it and said, basically, it's the paying customers that are affected by their DRM - not the the people that steal their products and that I don't see why I should be punished for paying for their game.
Whilst the highlight seems to be on my dislike of their DRM - I should point out I play other games with other kinds of DRM - and when their DRM affects me in the way BF's did, I'll look elsewhere. If the PC game pool dries up I've always got my scale modelling and board games to play. I don't have to give money to a company that treats me like a thief.
Rant over ;D
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2013, 11:01:09 AM
I have CMSF, Marines, Brits, NATO, Afghanistan, CM:BfN v2, CM:BfN CW and CM:FI installed. I read the manual (I guess it was from CM:BFN or FI) about uninstalling and (unbeknownst to me) it wasn't the same instructions for all games. When I came to reinstall my games, the Shock Force boys didn't want to work - the whole collection.
I think I was back up and running in a couple of days - but that really is not the point. I think I posted their response on here somewhere - but whilst it wasn't rude - it certainly wasn't that pleasing to read. Something about if you do it again you might have to re-buy the products - then there was a bit of a back peddle about they hadn't ever charged anyone for the games again because they inadvertently didn't uninstall the product correctly - but the implication was there that it's their right to do so.
I think Keith over at VGG had the experience you are talking about re: Shock Force?
http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/19365/why-customer-service-matters
Don't know if this rings a bell or not.
QuoteThis past weekend, I decided to try my hand at Shock Force + the bundle and installed it on my computer. My World at War: Into the Breach writeups and receiving World at War: Counterattack in the mail had re-ignited my interest in modern conflict. Heck, I even tried my hand at Steel Beasts Professional (Personal Edition) again (which is amazing for treadheads if you've never scoped it out).
Unfortunately, when I attached my drive where I had saved my bundle from Battlefront ... it was dead. No flashing lights. No nothing. I pulled the drive from the enclosure and tried it in another enclosure only to find that nothing appeared on the drive!
I immediately went back to the Battlefront website and logged in. They had a record of my purchase. I attempted to download the game and received a reminder saying that my download had expired. I understood. It had been 2 years and they're not running a download service for pirates.
So ...
I contacted their Help Desk. Since Wednesday I've been told that I need to pay $5 for a game I already own to get access to the download because, I didn't back it up ... which I had described that I had done.
I don't mind paying the $5, but the principle of the thing completely rubbed me the wrong way.
Hey Judge. Do you play real-time or turn-based? I play turn-based and what works for me is a very slow recon approach and when I start taking fire, re-wind the action until just before the fire comes your way and cruise around the map listening over and over for the sound of where the fire came from. Generally you can get a real good idea about where the enemy is and sometimes what is shooting at you. Then use any unit that can area fire into close to that point to suppress the fire. It's slow but it works. You can also try an easier level. I've had to do that after the last CMFI DLC because the AI now seems to have learned to hold it's fire better until you're close. The biggest mistake I make is getting in too big a hurry. Hope it helps. :)
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2013, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: GJK on October 16, 2013, 10:12:09 AM
Did you ever play the earlier CM games JD (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK)?
Yes. Enjoyed quite a few battles on them.
I certainly don't remember them being as unforgiving as the new system.
I started with 3x4 scout cars last night - nothing else. I checked the ground from ground level and saw where I wanted to place my scout cars so they could oversee the objective (it was my objective to recce) and BAM! BAM! - 2 down in flames within a short space of time...and not a SINGLE indication of where the fire came from. Not even a guess! Just 2 flaming heaps. When the first one was hit, I was hoping for some kind of indication as to direction of fire from the other two...but nope. Then the second got hit. I was lucky enough to reverse the 3rd out of there, moved him along the ridge and creep back up - and soon after - BAM! down he goes!
If I can't find the enemy without suffering 100% losses I don't really know what the game is trying to get me to achieve. I don't see what I could've done different given the AG video about OCOKA
Anyway - as per the norm, got bored, came out and moved on. Harder grogs might have stayed - but I try and game for fun. When it's a chore (and I don't mean losing...I mean when the gameplay seems to be missing) then I just move on. No doubt I'll fire it up in a month or two again.
Strangely enough I never found Shock Force as infuriating. Maybe I should just stick to that.
My experiences with CM2 have been very different. For example, early on in a canned scenario I accidently moved an entire company of paratroopers into a town (Vireville or something). It looked like the end as about a hundred little dudes lined up and came charging into town packed into two roads. They are all dead, I said to myself. Luckily something knocked out a couple of jerry machine guns in town (my mortars? rifle grenades? My MGs? I don't know) and the jerry mortar barrage hit where all those guys had been -- not where they were -- and I said to myself -- what a fantastic game!
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2013, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: GJK on October 16, 2013, 10:12:09 AM
Did you ever play the earlier CM games JD (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK)?
Yes. Enjoyed quite a few battles on them.
I certainly don't remember them being as unforgiving as the new system.
...
Strangely enough I never found Shock Force as infuriating. Maybe I should just stick to that.
Do you enjoy the newer CM engine that much more than the predecessor, or is the earlier CM games just too dated? I ask because as I mentioned, I *want* to learn to play CM:BN but I find that it just doesn't hold my attention like the earlier games do. Again, I'm sure that there's an issue with me not being as familiar with the newer CM engine. Still, I hear about the DRM scheme/issues and other points brought up and wonder why I should even bother with messing with buying/playing the newer engine when I'm comfortable and still enjoying the originals. Thoughts?
Quote from: GJK on October 16, 2013, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2013, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: GJK on October 16, 2013, 10:12:09 AM
Did you ever play the earlier CM games JD (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK)?
Yes. Enjoyed quite a few battles on them.
I certainly don't remember them being as unforgiving as the new system.
...
Strangely enough I never found Shock Force as infuriating. Maybe I should just stick to that.
Do you enjoy the newer CM engine that much more than the predecessor, or is the earlier CM games just too dated? I ask because as I mentioned, I *want* to learn to play CM:BN but I find that it just doesn't hold my attention like the earlier games do. Again, I'm sure that there's an issue with me not being as familiar with the newer CM engine. Still, I hear about the DRM scheme/issues and other points brought up and wonder why I should even bother with messing with buying/playing the newer engine when I'm comfortable and still enjoying the originals. Thoughts?
Well - when I used to play them (and they didn't get a lot of my attention, but I did enjoy them), I used to think "If only this game had an updated graphics engine". Somewhere along the way, it got a graphics update and, for me at least, the fun seemed to be stripped out.
Like I said, I enjoy the Shock Force ones. It would be easy to think it's just the setting, but I also find the scenarios extremely difficult (that's not necessarily the games fault) - I just don't get it I guess.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 16, 2013, 12:08:25 PM
Hey Judge. Do you play real-time or turn-based? I play turn-based and what works for me is a very slow recon approach and when I start taking fire, re-wind the action until just before the fire comes your way and cruise around the map listening over and over for the sound of where the fire came from. Generally you can get a real good idea about where the enemy is and sometimes what is shooting at you. Then use any unit that can area fire into close to that point to suppress the fire. It's slow but it works. You can also try an easier level. I've had to do that after the last CMFI DLC because the AI now seems to have learned to hold it's fire better until you're close. The biggest mistake I make is getting in too big a hurry. Hope it helps. :)
Thanks Sir Slash. I've tried and tried to play WEGO and just can't get into it. Strangely enough I preferred the CMx1 stuff in WEGO...I loved the system. As soon as it went to Shock Force I was an RTS convert - having usually hated RTS. I just think the new engine and games play better in RTS.
But - I'll give it another try in WEGO. You never know. Something might click.
Thanks
The originals had more right out of the box, all the units and many scenarios. But the new system has many new features like each soldier can react differently, engaging different targets or cowering, squads can be broken up into teams such as AT, assault or scouting. Buildings have real doors that can only be entered through or out of and have multiple levels not just 1st & 2nd, troops in Half-Tracks will fire on enemies and engage multiple targets. The AI is still somewhat dumb on offense but a bear on defense. Still I miss the prediction of hit & destroy when targeting enemy armor and still no fire or flamethrowers. :-[
Quote from: GJK on October 16, 2013, 12:34:10 PM
Thoughts?
I can't speak for JD of course, but there's never any logical/rational reason for trying out and learning a new game system -- which is why the DRM stuff is such a pain -- right when you just want to drift into something BAM! -- stuff gets in the way.
My liking for the CM2 games from Shock force to CMBN and CMBN:CW is not only irrational, but buried in the world of six-years ago. Not only that but I'm not even playing any CM2 stuff until something East Front comes out.
I think if you want to get into CM2 for the appropriately irrational reasons (whatever they are), Shock Force might be a good place to start. The open terrain and superior US weapons makes it easier to grasp what is going on.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2013, 11:01:09 AM
Quote from: Bison on October 16, 2013, 10:44:23 AM
Which game? Cmbn has never had the option to unlicense, which ill agree is stupid. However I've installed it on numerous systems without much hassle beyond having to request an additional key once. That was annoying, but it was a quick process to get.
I have CMSF, Marines, Brits, NATO, Afghanistan, CM:BfN v2, CM:BfN CW and CM:FI installed. I read the manual (I guess it was from CM:BFN or FI) about uninstalling and (unbeknownst to me) it wasn't the same instructions for all games. When I came to reinstall my games, the Shock Force boys didn't want to work - the whole collection.
I think I was back up and running in a couple of days - but that really is not the point. I think I posted their response on here somewhere - but whilst it wasn't rude - it certainly wasn't that pleasing to read. Something about if you do it again you might have to re-buy the products - then there was a bit of a back peddle about they hadn't ever charged anyone for the games again because they inadvertently didn't uninstall the product correctly - but the implication was there that it's their right to do so.
Personally I thought rather than have me hassle you, why not just allow me to install my freaking game I bought from you. But there you go. I think that's a bit simple.
And my highlight in bold in your post - it never bothered me before and I was quite happy to plod along with their products and their DRM. Then It affected me and I thought "That's it". So - that is it for me. I explained to whomever it was I was speaking to in the tech support about it and said, basically, it's the paying customers that are affected by their DRM - not the the people that steal their products and that I don't see why I should be punished for paying for their game.
Whilst the highlight seems to be on my dislike of their DRM - I should point out I play other games with other kinds of DRM - and when their DRM affects me in the way BF's did, I'll look elsewhere. If the PC game pool dries up I've always got my scale modelling and board games to play. I don't have to give money to a company that treats me like a thief.
Rant over ;D
You and I think alike, in more ways than one.
*Rant Continued*
Having such DRM, notably without an option to 'unlicense' it, is dickish enough without them vaguely threatening to make you purchase their crap all over again just because their nickle & diming expansions and paid-updates have an unnecessarily confusing install and online licensing.
I could shaddap about their DRM if their general attitude towards customers was better. Every time I see a post from BF it comes across poorly. The re-purchase threat you received when requesting customer service support is typical of the attitude.
Gonna build a new rig this week and I have no idea how many net-licensed games I need to find and unlicense on my old machine. That'll probably take me as long as building the new one. >:( Hell, I'll probably discover some titles I didn't even realize had online activation DRM, but at least nearly all of those allow you to reclaim one of your allowed installs when you tell it to. I don't care so much about CM:BN anymore, but Battlefront still holds my SC:WWI license hostage. I wish the developers had left BF
before releasing that one.
The answer is very simple. Don't buy their products if you don't like their policies. I fail to see the struggle to be had with the decision.
Quote from: Bison on October 16, 2013, 01:28:28 PM
The answer is very simple. Don't buy their products if you don't like their policies. I fail to see the struggle to be had with the decision.
No longer a struggle. I'm not buying anymore CM from them. Since the
Strategic Command guys fled the place, things are actually looking up.
See ain't life easy?
Quote from: Bison on October 16, 2013, 01:28:28 PM
The answer is very simple. Don't buy their products if you don't like their policies. I fail to see the struggle to be had with the decision.
It isn't a struggle Bison. I already said I decided to boycott their games - even though I have bought all their titles except Gustav and Market Garden!
I'm more annoyed at their attitude when I required assistance.
why does it seem like every mention of Combat Mission is followed by the initials "DRM" like any appearance of Slaak is always followed by "9/11 is a lie!" ?
Only because it's fresh in my head...having been at the failed end of it very recently and their helpful support with undertones.
Before that I was fine with their system.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 16, 2013, 12:59:03 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 16, 2013, 12:08:25 PM
Hey Judge. Do you play real-time or turn-based? I play turn-based and what works for me is a very slow recon approach and when I start taking fire, re-wind the action until just before the fire comes your way and cruise around the map listening over and over for the sound of where the fire came from. Generally you can get a real good idea about where the enemy is and sometimes what is shooting at you. Then use any unit that can area fire into close to that point to suppress the fire. It's slow but it works. You can also try an easier level. I've had to do that after the last CMFI DLC because the AI now seems to have learned to hold it's fire better until you're close. The biggest mistake I make is getting in too big a hurry. Hope it helps. :)
Thanks Sir Slash. I've tried and tried to play WEGO and just can't get into it. Strangely enough I preferred the CMx1 stuff in WEGO...I loved the system. As soon as it went to Shock Force I was an RTS convert - having usually hated RTS. I just think the new engine and games play better in RTS.
But - I'll give it another try in WEGO. You never know. Something might click.
Thanks
Well maybe that's what my problem is with CM:BN- I need to try it as an RTS game.
^ lol - you never know - maybe we'll both have an enlightening moment! ;)
I learned quickly to play CMSF as an RTS with lots of pausing rather than attempting to coordinate movements over a minute long turn. The units are too deadly and one little mistake and wham! there goes a squad or vehicle. I've kept the practice up with CMBN and CMFI. I might attempt to learn the timing if I ever decided to play a PBEM game, but frankly right now that type of play holds no interest for me.
I'm still preferring the "big heads" of CMx1. Easy to learn, no DRM and covers ALL of the East, West and Mediterranean fronts. When modded, it looks pretty darn good as well. Just saying.
I get it GJK, but I really like the CM2 engine.
Ultimately, to me anyway, it's a false choice. I play both generations, largely because my wife. father-in-law, and some of my long-time opponents don't want to make the jump to CMx2.
I'll also be the first to grant that the set-up, PBEM, and play of the x1 engine is mite easier, particularly as relates to the size of files to be transferred.
The terrain modelling of x2 alone, however, makes it a very special thing indeed. I love just laying out topo maps for fun and firing tanks back and forth across them. Do that in real life and you're likely to be detained.
Even though the survey sample is small and, I suspect, skewed, the lack of movement over to x2 it indicates is dramatic and interesting. Curious to see what happens as time moves on and, perhaps, the cost of x2 dips somewhat. It shouldn't be forgotten that x1 is much more affordable these days than its younger peer.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
I don't particularly find the poll all that interesting. Namely it's being done on a board game forum so I suspect that skews the results. I suspect if it were taken in the battlefront community the results would read completely opposite.
Quote from: Bison on October 16, 2013, 07:47:41 PM
I don't particularly find the poll all that interesting. Namely it's being done on a board game forum so I suspect that skews the results. I suspect if it were taken in the battlefront community the results would read completely opposite.
Trying to do a poll like on the Battlefront forums is like trying to design a car seat for cats! ::)
Yes. It'd be completely irrational to have a poll of people who actually play the games.
People don't take dorosh seriously in the BF forums.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 16, 2013, 02:35:45 PM
why does it seem like every mention of Combat Mission is followed by the initials "DRM" like any appearance of Slaak is always followed by "9/11 is a lie!" ?
Both examples cannot be separated from their respective psychoses. :P
Quote from: jomni on October 17, 2013, 12:16:01 AM
People don't take dorosh seriously in the BF forums.
Why should they?
Quote from: Bison on October 17, 2013, 12:36:55 AM
Quote from: jomni on October 17, 2013, 12:16:01 AM
People don't take dorosh seriously in the BF forums.
Why should they?
Come on now, Mike has made lots of great contributions to the wargaming community over the years in both ASL, CM and in other areas. He's a personal friend of mine (he's been down from Canada for a visit previously) and I respect his knowledge in Canadian and WWII history. His online persona can be quite blunt but that tells me that he's a guy that won't BS you around; he'll tell you like it is. He can stir up shit in forums and often does, but it also provokes lots of conversation and debate on the topics that he raises (i.e., this thread for example). Seperate his brash profile online with him in person and you have two different people, really. Personally, I appreciate his contributions. I still use his ASL mod for CMx1 to this day. :)
Some people seem to be ostracised if they speak out against the norm or the masses.
Another name springs to mind from recent history
Personally I have never heard anything about Michael Dorosh and when he's posted, that I have read, it's been informative and in no way inflammatory. But others seem to think differently and that's 8)
Quote from: Bison on October 17, 2013, 12:36:55 AM
Quote from: jomni on October 17, 2013, 12:16:01 AM
People don't take dorosh seriously in the BF forums.
Why should they?
He does make sense. But maybe annoying to hardcore fan boys who worship BF.
Quote from: GJK on October 17, 2013, 01:25:21 AM
He can stir up shit in forums and often does
this is not a positive trait - anywhere else and including here i would imagine, you would just be politely asked to leave
and if hes such a nice guy in real life, wtf is wrong with putting that out in the digital world - to me all that says is nice face to face but an asshole behind a monitor when he doesnt have to face the consequences/fists/sticks
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 17, 2013, 05:19:46 AM
Quote from: GJK on October 17, 2013, 01:25:21 AM
He can stir up shit in forums and often does
this is not a positive trait - anywhere else and including here i would imagine, you would just be politely asked to leave
and if hes such a nice guy in real life, wtf is wrong with putting that out in the digital world - to me all that says is nice face to face but an asshole behind a monitor when he doesnt have to face the consequences/fists/sticks
I don't know why geek and I'm not going to defend him here when he's a member can do so himself. Hopefully that doesn't turn in to a slugfest however that gets out of control because that's exactly the type of stuff that I came here to get away from. But it's started already; the guy posts a poll about Combat Mission and that instantly turns into a Battlefront to Mike Dorosh drag through the mud ass wrangling. Maybe if Mike just totally disassociated himself with Battlefront. <shrug>
I think that I learned to read Mike's personality a long time ago. Probably to many/most he comes off as an arrogant SOB but I never took him that way. In fact, I think our personalities are very identical but mine is much more muted. He enjoys doing wargame projects; making add-on's, player aids, graphics, writing, etc for games that he barely plays. I do the same thing. Anyways, Mike is welcome to come down and stay with me any time that he likes and I personally enjoy reading his posts, though I may be in the minority there.
I've seen both sides of Mike. Over the years I've had a pretty constant relationship with him. For the most part, he's passionate about his hobby. He knows what he likes and says what he thinks. That's not where the issue lies with me personally. At times when you disagree with Mike he can get a bit testy.
I can too on some days. I overlook our issues, and there have been some intense moments, because of what he has to offer.
Good Hunting.
MR
Why should anyone at Battlefront care wha
Quote from: jomni on October 17, 2013, 04:41:50 AM
Quote from: Bison on October 17, 2013, 12:36:55 AM
Quote from: jomni on October 17, 2013, 12:16:01 AM
People don't take dorosh seriously in the BF forums.
Why should they?
He does make sense. But maybe annoying to hardcore fan boys who worship BF.
Ah, I see. Well that clears it all up then doesn't it.
Well I hope that the mod's keep a very short leash on this thread. I don't want to see it turn into a bash against *anybody*. I think that this site has kept above that standard and I hope that it remains to do so.
Quote from: GJK on October 17, 2013, 07:32:48 AM
Well I hope that the mod's keep a very short leash on this thread. I don't want to see it turn into a bash against *anybody*. I think that this site has kept above that standard and I hope that it remains to do so.
GJK. I'm not bashing him. I revert back to my original position on the poll itself. If you were to poll the actual community of players who play Combat Mission regularly, I think your results would look differently. And yes your polling pool would have to come from the Battlefront community. I suspect that many still play CMx1, but that the majority have moved onto one of the CMx2 iterations.
As far as Michael goes my original post had nothing to do who him personally, he can have his opinion on whatever the hell he wants like we all do. I disagree with him on his assessment of playability issues and historical assessments of CMX2 that he's posted here at grogheads previously. And I frankly don't care what his history or relationship is with Battlefront or his interactions with the community there are or have been in the past. It has no impact on my enjoyment of the games. Just as I'm sure my inane ramblings have little to no impact on individuals when it comes to my rambling about various games here too.
That's cool Bison and I can agree with you that the poll could of been done in a better place. Perhaps Mike will chime in and explain why BGG was chosen. I suspect that it was because he was familiar with the tools for setting up the poll there and perhaps to ride a bit on Jay Richardson's coattails along with the success that he had with the ASL poll there.
I will say that there are just topics that will inherently spawn reactions of those for and those against. Battlefront is just one of them and yes it primarily has to do with their DRM. I'm not going to dig through every Battlefront thread here, but I'd be willing to bet that in over 90% of them the DRM is brought up and becomes the primary focus of the thread. Anyway it is what it is and for right now the government hasn't declared an individual mandate to buy Combat Mission Battle for Normandy and all it's expansions, so we all still have a choice to make in regard to purchasing and playing.
Regardless of his opinions and opinions of him, Mr. Dorosh has created some very good user-made scenarios for both CM1 and CM2 and has a great knowledge of both games.
Quote from: Bison on October 16, 2013, 07:47:41 PM
I don't particularly find the poll all that interesting. Namely it's being done on a board game forum so I suspect that skews the results. I suspect if it were taken in the battlefront community the results would read completely opposite.
Still, allowing for some bias, there are some interesting features on the 2012 poll: for example -- board gamers don't play RT much, but they would like the Eastern Front more than any other choice they got.
I went for all modern - Korea onwards...especially Cold War and Arab/Israeli stuff
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 17, 2013, 10:36:45 AM
I went for all modern - Korea onwards...especially Cold War and Arab/Israeli stuff
IIRC, Battlefront is working on a present-day, non-asymmetric war. Something in Eastern Europe with NATO coming in on it. They could just rework Syria with the NATO versus whoever, but they thought making it more hypothetical might be a good thing.
Supposedly they will not do any Israelis, but back in CMSF, you could have T-62s (Israeli style) versus T-62s (Syrian Style). Now those were some fierce fights.
Quote from: GJK on October 16, 2013, 07:58:51 AM
Neat poll. The big shocker for me was to see that CMx1 is being played more than the newer releases, or so it's indicated as such early in this voting.
Oddly enough, I'm thinking of getting CMFI. That's a CM2 game covering Sicily and Salerno --sorta -- I guess it has no allied units but Americans. Kind of a Sci-fi world. But hermetic. Sorta.
CM Games need a lot more than just new theatres and timeframes.
DRM
- get rid of current DRM. Even SES dumped their DRM that was based on a users PC config. The current DRM just get's worst with each new release.
New Campaign System
- they have used the same campaign system now for the last 3 games, I don't know why you can't just created a force and take them through a series of battles.
- a campaign system that supports non-fixed OOB, allow players to select, modify the forces, this will give them more replay value!
- new campaign layer where you can distribute replacements, add support units, repair units, etc. in between battles.
- allow players to name units down to the man if they want.
Better Quick Battles
- better QB system that doesn't require players to create AI plans for new maps or an easier way to do it, there are very few third party QB maps with AI.
- allow all units from all modules be available when creating quick battles, whats the point of having 3 modules when you can only use units from one at a time?
- more options for map size vs force size.
Update Manager
- it's just too big PITA to update and re-install their games, plus modules and updates.
Other things
- prevent vehicles from passing through each other, that just looks so stupid these days.
- develop a movement system that allows vehicles to drive over bridges that works.
- add other terrain to includes ports, airfields, radar/radio stations, etc.
- allow users to create/edit infantry units vs. a database with tons of the same units.
- supply units that can be edited for ammo types, amounts, etc.
- allow users to select the unit they want vs. selection everything than deleting 99.9% just to get the one unit you want.
- better damage models.
- allow the player to decide when a battle is over.
- allow the player to decide the timefame (15 sec, 30 sec, 60 sec, etc.) for turn based play.
- option to keep dead on the map.
- new mission/battle types to capture/kill/blow up a specific unit/map item for commando type battles.
Being a Noobie.. PBEM .. QB player with Con (before he upgraded)..
this one was big with me!
"- allow users to select the unit they want vs. selection everything than deleting 99.9% just to get the one unit you want."
I would also add.. let people with CMBN play people with CMBN/CW or CMBN/CW/MG and vice versa.. no they don't get to play with maps/units they don't' have. but let people play each other in whatever mix they have!
Quote from: Bison on October 16, 2013, 07:47:41 PM
I don't particularly find the poll all that interesting. Namely it's being done on a board game forum so I suspect that skews the results. I suspect if it were taken in the battlefront community the results would read completely opposite.
It's actually on Video Game Geek. If you are a member of Board Game Geek, you can migrate from site to site seamlessly, i.e. look at VGG content while logged into BGG, and vice versa.
Personally, I belong to a number of sites related to similar topics. Anyone can register at BGG or VGG and I would think many BFC site members would find one or two topics of interest in the wargaming forums at BGG. Note - the "wargames" forum is open for discussion about all three types of wargames - board, minis and computer.
I agree the sampling is small with the poll posted at BGG, but it is nonetheless interesting - the Eastern Front content question has been consistent for three years - but there is an advantage to not having it posted at BFC also. On a third party site it seems less like criticism and I'm not sure a poll would be welcomed there - like going to a dinner party and asking people what they think of the menu in a show of hands in front of the host.
Anyway, thanks to those who took an interest, the responses - and the conversation here - has been interesting. I appreciate the words of support.
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on October 17, 2013, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 16, 2013, 07:47:41 PM
I don't particularly find the poll all that interesting. Namely it's being done on a board game forum so I suspect that skews the results. I suspect if it were taken in the battlefront community the results would read completely opposite.
It's actually on Video Game Geek. If you are a member of Board Game Geek, you can migrate from site to site seamlessly, i.e. look at VGG content while logged into BGG, and vice versa..
Interesting I'll have to look.
I've been to boardgamegeek and rpggeek but didn't realize that there even was a videogamegeek. Will have to look as well. Curious to see what the top rated video wargames of all time are (if it tracks such a thing).
Quote from: GJK on October 17, 2013, 06:28:52 PM
I've been to boardgamegeek and rpggeek but didn't realize that there even was a videogamegeek. Will have to look as well. Curious to see what the top rated video wargames of all time are (if it tracks such a thing).
The VGG site is extremely under-utilized. I think there are just too many other game sites online - the internet is the natural medium of choice to discuss video gaming, so sites like Gamespot, etc. probably get (or got, if GS is no longer around) the lion's share of interest. I think the database at VGG is reasonably good, mostly from boardgamers also digging in to their 1980s video game collections to populate it. But there is a large disconnect between the popularity of BGG and that of VGG. The VGG forums are tiny - not clique-y, necessarily, just tiny - and almost no one uses the game-specific forums, or bothers to register their collections like they do on BGG. Not sure why it never took off, but I think the interface is probably just more suited to board games than video games. VGG also has more restrictive content uploading rules than BGG which can be a turn-off at times. Not enough useful galleries for screenshots, etc.
Quote from: Tuna on October 17, 2013, 05:34:18 PM
I would also add.. let people with CMBN play people with CMBN/CW or CMBN/CW/MG and vice versa.. no they don't get to play with maps/units they don't' have. but let people play each other in whatever mix they have!
Their DLC & paid updates system obviously needs to be organized better. This is supposing that they actually intend various combinations of their expansions to be compatible with each other, which I'm not even sure is the case.
A modular system where the base game is constantly updated to be compatible, no matter which expansions one of the players owns, is how the DLC train should ride. I had expected this when I purchased CMBN because back then we were told that future versions would be sold as expansions, not standalones. Surprise! The sudden change, along with paid updates (this is the second time for me - CMSF was the first) and the DRM makes it look like they're intentionally avoiding an efficient modular system and compatibility between expansions.
I've given them a second chance and, based on Tuna's compatibility issues, I've yet to see anything that convinces me they deserve any more than that. Hopefully their circle of hardcore CMx2 fans keep them in business and they don't alienate any more former customers, for their own sake.
It's like the night a few of Grogs were on and we wanted to play Civ V.. We all had Brave New World Expansion.. except.. Metal Dog, he had Vanilla.. No problem.. we played a 'vanilla' game with him.. CM should do the same.. if everyone has 2.0, then they should be able to play what module's they have shouldn't matter.
Quote from: jomni on October 17, 2013, 04:41:50 AM
Quote from: Bison on October 17, 2013, 12:36:55 AM
Quote from: jomni on October 17, 2013, 12:16:01 AM
People don't take dorosh seriously in the BF forums.
Why should they?
He does make sense. But maybe annoying to hardcore fan boys who worship BF.
I worship BF. Am I annoyed? Not so much.
By the way, speaking of worshipping BF, I just played a tank battle in my newly-purchased CMFI that I set up in the editor as sloppily as I could (so as to have as little idea as possible about what was going to happen) that was one of the best war -gaming moments I've ever had. With the old review the battlefield music and the new quasi-Phillip Glass soundtrack after that.
Yes, it is true: accidently well-placed defending PZIVs will make a mess out of accidently badly placed Shermans milling around downhill...but it was such a fine battle. Cue dopey music.
Quote from: MengJiao on October 17, 2013, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: GJK on October 16, 2013, 07:58:51 AM
Neat poll. The big shocker for me was to see that CMx1 is being played more than the newer releases, or so it's indicated as such early in this voting.
Oddly enough, I'm thinking of getting CMFI. That's a CM2 game covering Sicily and Salerno --sorta -- I guess it has no allied units but Americans. Kind of a Sci-fi world. But hermetic. Sorta.
Note to self: the Sahariana car is pretty interesting. The jerrycan armor doesn't seem like such a great idea, but a machine gun and a 20mm gun seems like a fun combination: a lot of firepower for 4 guys! And presumably they spot well.
So I'm going to try the Sahariana Company out in a few different situations.
And one version also carries a 47mm gun. Like a jeep with a real bad attitude. And bite.