Right now Amazon has Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear 2nd edition on sale. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008H4L3MU/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=80PPSEG411YX&coliid=I3D5FIEF9HE7GE
I also noticed there is a Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SPQMNY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=80PPSEG411YX&coliid=I2Q7HGKW7HPSW
My question is these games look very appealing to me. The sale price of Awakening the Bear look attractive. Is this game worth getting? I've read that the impulse system they use is pretty straightforward and easy to learn and the game components are of extreme high quality. I used to play a lot of PanzerBlitz, PanzerLeader, and Arab and Israeli Wars and like the scale for this kind of game.
Just wanted to get some feedback on those that own these games before I dive in blind.
I have all three CoH games, although just the first ed of AtB. They really are good with first class components and a well designed system. Although they are quite comfortable being played solo, they (like a lot of games) excel in MP.
The very interactive system means that there is a lot going on with no long waiting periods - in fact, it can get very tense in MP games.
I have a few issues with the infantry / armour interface, but nothing that would stop me from recommending you getting the games, and, whilst they aint cheap, there is a lot of replay value there and they are good quality products - plus you can download a few more 'firefights' from the Academy website.
Recommended - PM me if you want to know anything else about them.
I know a lot of people who love the games.
I've not played them, but they are visually quite attractive.
Thanks guys for your feedback. Bob you echoed pretty much what I read on the reviews of these games. I'm sold and just placed my order for Awakening! ;D
I have the 1st ed. of Awakening. I don't recall where he posted it (CSW?) but Uwe Eickert had asked if anybody could make either a VASSAL or Cyberboard module for a new game that he was working on. He was a new game designer working on his first game that was to be published. I offered to make a ZunTzu gamebox for it and he replied that he would like that very much. He sent me the original artwork and phoned a few times asking how things were going and if he could do anything to help. Very nice guy. I made the gamebox and he liked it very much. Within a couple of weeks after the game was released, I had a copy on my doorstep that Uwe had sent as a way of saying "thanks" for going out of my way to make that ZunTzu gamebox. That was very cool.
This has been discussed, but my edition had Uwe's original rules for the game and I played it a few times and thought "meh, not bad but won't supplant ASL". The components were wonderfully done however; thick boards and counters that are already "clipped" and thick. Certainly one of the better looking games that I've ever played. Well, I haven't played it since but Uwe took in the feedback from players on some subtle changes that could be made to enhance the game play and that then produced version 2.0 with a re-work of the impulse system. Like I said, I haven't tried that but certainly wouldn't mind doing so. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the game 'minute once your copy comes in.
Quote from: W8taminute on October 18, 2013, 08:00:22 PM
Thanks guys for your feedback. Bob you echoed pretty much what I read on the reviews of these games. I'm sold and just placed my order for Awakening! ;D
I don't think you will regret it - its a very dynamic system which is easy to learn (and teach). After a few games you rarely need to consult the rule book.
In PoH (on which I did some play testing) there is an excellent 3 player firefight called 'Race to Lvov' which pits Russian, German and Polish forces, each with their own objectives. Two buddies and I have played this 3 times, each taking a different force in turn. They provided one of the most enjoyable gaming experience I have ever had.
Firefights (scenario's) vary in size from single map / few units, which can be played quite quickly, to 4 map monsters that can take a good few hours to play.
Whilst some scenario's can be played by up to 4 players, the rules include options to modify them for fewer players, plus there are some reasonable rules to allow for solo play.
@GJK
Uwe sounds like a great guy. That's pretty cool what he did for you after you created the gamebox. I'll definitely chime in once I get the game and give it a try. I'm excited to hear that rules 2.0 have been streamlined a bit from version 1.0.
@bob48
Up to 4 can play certain scenarios? That is very good to hear. I've been trying to convince some of my local friends to come over for a 'boys night in' of gaming and maybe this game could attract their attention. And thanks to GJK it sounds like a gamebox is available to use for playing over the internet with distant friends. :)
Yeah, VASSAL, ZunTzu and I'm sure there's a Cyberboard module as well.
So my copy of the game came in yesterday and I began unboxing it. I was immediately impressed with the quality of the manual, map, cards, and status sheets.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1336.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo648%2FW8taminute%2FCoH1_zpse03b1495.jpg&hash=db373fcd4b6c03e9740ca0b7d2acc2ec420b96e4)
Soviet counter sheet
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1336.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo648%2FW8taminute%2FCoH2_zps849d8d4c.jpg&hash=0d435c0b4eda28e618b8f9b93e0cc0ce28018932)
Movement and defense chart
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1336.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo648%2FW8taminute%2FCoH3_zps38e659d4.jpg&hash=e3359ccd75fe66f544c8baa28f81c8b1d7c14bef)
Portion of one of the mapboards. There are three all together.
There was only one flaw in this beautiful looking game. One of the counter sheets, thankfully it's just the misc sheet, was printed in the Spanish language. I'm not the only one to have run into a bad production batch like this. Check out boardgamegeek: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/933887/spanish-counters
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1336.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo648%2FW8taminute%2FCoH4_zps531bfe92.jpg&hash=3ecf7f6475dd4b168fccb3f3f3601f371e0f7a5b)
Others have contacted Uwe directly and he promptly sent them a replacement sheet. I'm debating if I should go through the trouble or not. I suppose I can live with this single sheet. I understand enough of what the counters mean to play and the rest I can gather through the context of the rulebook.
The new maps in 2nd edition are superb - unfortunately, I can't afford to replace my 1st ed copy with the new one.
Hope you get as much pleasure out of it as I have with mine.
^Thanks bob, I'm definitely digging this game a lot. Partially played the first firefight this afternoon. W8taminutette2 was interested in what my fuss was all about and asked if she could play too. Of course I said yes!!
Before I dive in on what happened during our session let me make a couple of first impression statements. I've only read the first 4 pages of the rulebook and played two rounds of the first firefight (scenario). But I've already formed my opinions of this elegant game.
First off the rules are not over the top complex. They're fairly straightforward and easy to comprehend. Basically each side takes turns activating units, one at a time, until you either run out of units or run out of command points or both. When a unit is activated it can perform one and only one action. Move, fire, rally, etc. and that is it. Turn then switches to the other player. Once both sides have exhausted all of their actions the round ends and a new round begins. Really straightforward and turns pass by quickly. You're never really bored waiting for your next turn because the game is constantly flowing. I like this system. One doesn't have to wait for decades whilst the opposing players ponders how he's going to move millions of counters across the board like other games are. The action here is fast and furious, perfect for when game time is limited.
The decisions one must make and how to execute his plans however are not simple. You can really get creative with managing your command points, card actions (I haven't tried these yet), and individual unit action points. It's a careful juggling act deciding when and where to fire or move and then how to go about performing those actions. Do I use my command points to influence the die roll or save them for helping a unit along further before it exhausts all of it's action points?
Speaking of die rolls, combat involves no CRTs. You simply use 2d6 and terrain modifications and compare the numbers of the units involved in the exchange. My 9 year old daughter had no trouble learning the combat mechanics. In fact she administered a fairly good thrashing against me but more on that in a bit.
The game is not overly complex but it still manages to satiate that wargaming itch we all get. If this game was a course served during a meal I would put it at somewhere between appetizer and main meal.
Now on to our gaming session. The first firefight in the scenario booklet is a fairly small affair. Two small forces of infantry units clash over a victory location in the middle of the map. The Soviets are waiting in ambush and the Germans are attempting to locate them. My daughter chose to play as the Germans because their units looked pretty. She has no idea of what WW2 is or who the Germans or Russians are. She just didn't like the light brown color scheme of the Russian units preferring instead the light blueish grey of the Germans. Near the end of the first round here is what the situation looked like:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1336.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo648%2FW8taminute%2F906878b3-93f1-43ba-acdd-e0ffa4c22397_zps6e176941.jpg&hash=b9643372d39ca50beb933af6f4620333cb20ee61)
As you can see she had an MG34 LMG exchanging fire with my Maxim MMG. The pink double arrow shows those two units as being spent (i.e. no more actions for them this round). She hit me once but I managed to rally the unit back to action thus preventing it from dying if it were to receive a second hit. I had to use a total of 10 action points to get them back though and some of that was spent with precious command points.
Meanwhile near the victory location indicated by the red star counter she used an unorthodox tactic of advancing with her other LMG unit whilst her riflemen sat back. Remember she's only 9 and what does she know about small unit actions and the art of bounding overwatch? ;)
This second LMG exchanged fire with one of my rifle squads with both sides not being able to hit the broadside of a barn despite being so close to each other.
By the end of round one the Germans had boldly moved a rifle and a pioneer squad into the victory hex thus getting 1VP for the round, denying me any points. The Russians had units in the area as well and round two began with a very heated exchange of fire. In the end the Germans scored a killing blow against one of the Russian rifle squads eliminating it. The die roll and the results are shown below:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1336.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo648%2FW8taminute%2FRound2_zpsa44bbb72.jpg&hash=8fbbea7a6cf172cb26017228691aeccc131b4529)
The battle came to an abrupt end when the commander of the German forces began a boredom induced silly dance and left the battlefield. I hung my head low realizing that I, a veteran wargamer, had just had his ass handed to him by a 9 year old girl! Before leaving however, w8taminutette asked if we could play another firefight only one on a map that involved city fighting. Let's see what happens tomorrow!! 8)
Excellent AAR, W8 - good stuff!
Those graphics really do look great for CoH. I too have the first edition (as mentioned) and I don't think that they looked quite that good. Very good looking game.
How do you feel the "real world" tactics work in this game with the new command points system? With the original rules, I really didn't feel that cover or suppression fire tactics really connected well in the game. Do you think that it works well with the game now (though you probably don't have the 1st edition to compare it to)?
One of the aspects of the system that I like, and adds a lot of tension, is that when an enemy unit receives a hit chit, you are never quite sure what effect it has on that unit. It may or may not be still capable of firing back at you.
Also, the fact that a unit which is flipped to its 'used' side may still be able to fire or move using CAP's or an action card, again raises the uncertainty level and adds tension to the game, and means that you can never discount an enemy unit as being a threat (unless your opponent has not CAP's or cards left).
That's interesting to know because, as I recall, in the original version of the game when a unit spent its CAP wad, it was done and you could march on by it willy-nilly without a care in the world. That single change would make it a whole different game from when I played it.
That's still the case as far as CAP's are concerned, but you can still activate a 'spent' unit with an action card if you have any.
Quote from: GJK on October 26, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
Excellent AAR, W8 - good stuff!
Thanks!
Quote from: GJK on October 26, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
How do you feel the "real world" tactics work in this game with the new command points system?
Too early for me to tell with any certainty. The map I played on had only clear, light woods, and heavy woods to use. I really appreciated the defense modifiers one gets when in any type of woods. But if you have enough covering units I suppose you could rush another unit from cover to cover using real world tactics. Make sure you have the CAP to add to the AP to get your unit to his destination safely. This is where I'm wondering if you can game this system? What I mean is if I have enough CAP to spend I can rush a unit 7+ hexes, have him fire, modify his die roll and hopefully neutralize an enemy unit with ease. That would probably mean that the remaining units could not do too much but score at least one kill this way every round and you win these smaller scenarios. Am I wrong in my assumption?
Quote from: bob48 on October 27, 2013, 06:06:43 AM
Also, the fact that a unit which is flipped to its 'used' side may still be able to fire or move using CAP's or an action card, again raises the uncertainty level and adds tension to the game, and means that you can never discount an enemy unit as being a threat (unless your opponent has not CAP's or cards left).
That uncertainty is a big attraction for me as well. I wonder how that factor works in a larger scenario on a map with lots o' cover?
You can, as you say, rush a unit in the way that you describe, at the expense of CAP's. However, its likely that since you are still only moving one hex per impulse, your opponent may well be taking steps to intercept you. Not only that, but it does denude you of CAP's, and sometimes, its more of an advantage to have some 'in reserve' as a threat to your opponent.
Also, don't ignore the 'shared activation' option, which can often be used to great advantage. Group activations and the formation of fire-teams, especially for the Russians, is a must, as this greatly enhances firepower for those AP hungry Soviet units.
The uncertainty factor is even more fun in bigger scenario's - and you have to be much more careful in how you use CAP's and cards.
As a matter of interest, we have adopted one of the recommended options which is rolling for variable AP's when activating a unit. We roll 3 die and add the lowest to the highest so a unit may get between 2 and 12 AP's.
How funny is that AAR? ;D
I have the First Edition (I think) - great game. What killed it for me? Buyign board games like I buy computer games - in that it's too much effort to learn the rules only to move to another game to learn those rules only to come back - eventually you get bored reading the same rules.
Also - when it got to armour, I found the rules getting more complex.
I think my memory retention is bad enough to detract considerably from my enjoyment of boardgames. I've just discovered at the back of my cupboard World at War Blood and Bridges - a game I was hugely looking forward to playing.
It is now OUT of the cupboard - I love you guys and your boardgame stories :D
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 27, 2013, 12:50:51 PM
It is now OUT of the cupboard - I love you guys and your boardgame stories :D
Welcome to the dark side
JD.
Quote from: bob48 on October 27, 2013, 11:35:43 AM
...However, its likely that since you are still only moving one hex per impulse, your opponent may well be taking steps to intercept you....
Aha! That was what I was doing wrong. I misunderstood the rules or must have missed the part that specifies only moving one hex per impulse. I thought as long as you had the points to spend, be it AP or CAP or both, you could move as many hexes as possible per impulse. My mistake. Now it doesn't make sense to rush a unit in the manner I described. I'd rather save the moves to bring up other units or keep a reserve of points for re-rolling die rolls or firing.
Quote from: bob48 on October 27, 2013, 11:35:43 AMAlso, don't ignore the 'shared activation' option, which can often be used to great advantage. Group activations and the formation of fire-teams, especially for the Russians, is a must, as this greatly enhances firepower for those AP hungry Soviet units.
I'll have to read up on how to do this. I was wondering if this was possible because there are some shots you need to take that just aren't going to hit if only one unit can fire at a time.
Quote from: bob48 on October 27, 2013, 11:35:43 AMAs a matter of interest, we have adopted one of the recommended options which is rolling for variable AP's when activating a unit. We roll 3 die and add the lowest to the highest so a unit may get between 2 and 12 AP's.
That is an option I did read about and am intrigued by it's possibilities. If a unit rolled a 3 let's say that could simulate a lot of issues. Maybe the unit is confused and orders couldn't reach them in time, or maybe their training doesn't allow for them to perform too many actions. Although if on a subsequent round that same unit rolled a 12 maybe that could signify that the men worked really hard to overcome their difficulties for that impulse.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 27, 2013, 12:50:51 PM
How funny is that AAR? ;D
I have the First Edition (I think) - great game. What killed it for me? Buyign board games like I buy computer games - in that it's too much effort to learn the rules only to move to another game to learn those rules only to come back - eventually you get bored reading the same rules.
Also - when it got to armour, I found the rules getting more complex.
I think my memory retention is bad enough to detract considerably from my enjoyment of boardgames. I've just discovered at the back of my cupboard World at War Blood and Bridges - a game I was hugely looking forward to playing.
It is now OUT of the cupboard - I love you guys and your boardgame stories :D
Welcome aboard! I hope you do indeed try to get some enjoyment out of your boardgames. I'm with you on the memory and jumping around from game to game but the big reason for me getting back to some board game times is to give my video game bashed up brain a chance to rest.
To create a fire team, you designate a unit as the fire team leader, and pay its AP cost to fire. To constitute a part of the fire team, a unit has to be stacked with, or adjacent to, the fire team leader. For each unit that qualifies, you add 1 point to the fire team leaders firepower.
Obviously, to be counted as part of that team, a unit has to be on its active side and not have a hit chit that effects its firepower. Also, it has to be a combat unit with a valid firepower. It follows that the fire team can consist of both infantry and armour, and, of course, it means you can also apply the same principle to pure armour fire teams.
In effect, this is also a 'shared activation' are thus subject to the appropriate rules.
Dammit...stop making these games look good! And another series joins the wishlist...
>:(
;D
Sounds pretty simple bob, thanks for the background. I'm going to try this out during my next game.
Come on Arctic. Join the party!! :)
Quote from: bob48 on October 27, 2013, 05:12:40 PM
To create a fire team, you designate a unit as the fire team leader, and pay its AP cost to fire. To constitute a part of the fire team, a unit has to be stacked with, or adjacent to, the fire team leader. For each unit that qualifies, you add 1 point to the fire team leaders firepower.
Obviously, to be counted as part of that team, a unit has to be on its active side and not have a hit chit that effects its firepower. Also, it has to be a combat unit with a valid firepower. It follows that the fire team can consist of both infantry and armour, and, of course, it means you can also apply the same principle to pure armour fire teams.
In effect, this is also a 'shared activation' are thus subject to the appropriate rules.
I can't remember - so thought I'd throw this in - all members have to have sufficient range do they not?
Yep JD - quite right. Also, all firing units have to have the target in their LOS and front facing.