(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F71299000%2Fgif%2F_71299031_china_sea_dispute.gif&hash=36d66ea30945ce5a7ef42f0868c83e1f4dcd4c3a)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25062525 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25062525)
Clearly a statement that the whole continental shelf is their property. Later they will demand their economic exclusion zone is outside the shelf.
Something tells me Japan (and perhaps South Korea) won't take that lying down.
It's not simply what they're doing, it's the precedent that is also troubling.
If they're willing to extend it into Japan's doorstep take a look at the neighborhood and see who else may be affected.
I've shaded some square areas as an approximation of what appears to be a similar extension. We've discussed in another thread the issue with the Philippines. But there's more than just them.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FGrogHeads%2FPacific-Areas_zps014cce40.jpg&hash=4df731b44f30cd885ed1f05d48d6a2b1d4faafbe)
The talk of doing so is one thing (which Beijing historically does frequently), actually enforcing it is another.
Quote from: endfire79 on November 23, 2013, 03:53:58 PM
The talk of doing so is one thing (which Beijing historically does frequently), actually enforcing it is another.
Politicians, particularly communists that may find failures result in long labor camp sentences, do not like sticking their necks out. There will be some waiting to see if the response is as they had planned. So there will be lags to implementation.
Never the less, intent is important. It shows where they want to be relative to the community of nations. In our lives we make decisions that impact others. Some people put the group in high value. Their needs are associated with the success of the group. Others only care about themselves.
In all these sea disputes China is showing it's priorities.
I'm surprised, honestly, that Japan/South Korea/Taiwan and North Korea/China haven't come to blows over something yet.
Hey, just as an aside, does anyone know if those Philippine soldiers were able to maintain or resume their territorial claims post on that beached ship?
I wonder what would happen if we sent a carrier battle group into the area and made certain we had air activity going on, just to make the point that it's international waters? The US has a long history of making exactly that kind of statement. I would imagine harsh rhetoric would follow from China and little else.
Like a strongly worded letter?
Quote from: Gusington on November 23, 2013, 05:46:09 PM
Like a strongly worded letter?
Strongly worded fortune cookie.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 23, 2013, 05:54:13 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 23, 2013, 05:46:09 PM
Like a strongly worded letter?
Strongly worded fortune cookie.
Those never make sense anyway, unless you add "in bed" to the end.
It's amazing how aggressive the Chinese leadership is getting each year. No one nation on this planet can stop the might of China. Not as long as the key players are not united behind a strong economy to challenge this giant.
Quote from: W8taminute on November 23, 2013, 07:57:42 PM
It's amazing how aggressive the Chinese leadership is getting each year. No one nation on this planet can stop the might of China. Not as long as the key players are not united behind a strong economy to challenge this giant.
The generals probably get tired of medals for best marching. They want to do what they are training to do. It might be the leadership hanging onto the reigns.
no one tell the Chinese that Kadena AFB is right there ok.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 23, 2013, 08:58:33 PM
no one tell the Chinese that Kadena AFB is right there ok.
I'm sure they meant to make an exception for us!
considering thats where we base our F-22s they ought. ;)
Quote from: LongBlade on November 23, 2013, 07:00:23 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 23, 2013, 05:46:09 PM
Like a strongly worded letter?
My favorite.
aaaaaaannnnd.... here's your letter
http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=16392
QuoteStatement by Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel on the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone
The United States is deeply concerned by the People's Republic of China announcement today that it is establishing an air defense identification zone in the East China Sea. We view this development as a destabilizing attempt to alter the status quo in the region. This unilateral action increases the risk of misunderstanding and miscalculations.
This announcement by the People's Republic of China will not in any way change how the United States conducts military operations in the region.
The United States is conveying these concerns to China through diplomatic and military channels, and we are in close consultation with our allies and partners in the region, including Japan.
We remain steadfast in our commitments to our allies and partners. The United States reaffirms its longstanding policy that Article V of the U.S.-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty applies to the Senkaku Islands.
Part of me hope's the Chinese try to tangle with us. I also hope we start overflying the area immediately.
Quote from: mirth on November 24, 2013, 11:52:33 AM
Part of me hope's the Chinese try to tangle with us. I also hope we start overflying the area immediately.
Absolutely ditto +100
Quote from: Steelgrave on November 23, 2013, 06:50:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 23, 2013, 05:54:13 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 23, 2013, 05:46:09 PM
Like a strongly worded letter?
Strongly worded fortune cookie.
Those never make sense anyway, unless you add "in bed" to the end.
yeah half the time American inventions never makes sense ;)
Turns out we have still have some balls:
http://freebeacon.com/u-s-flies-b-52s-into-chinas-air-defense-zone/
Quotehe flight of the B-52s, based at Anderson Air Force Base in Guam, were part of a long-planned exercise called Coral Lightening. The bombers weren't armed and weren't accompanied by escort planes.
So is that exercise name referring to the whitening of coral, or does someone in the DD not know how to spell "lightning?"
Quote from: mirth on November 26, 2013, 12:19:06 PM
Turns out we have still have some balls:
http://freebeacon.com/u-s-flies-b-52s-into-chinas-air-defense-zone/
YES! I didn't see where any were shot down either. Go figure!
I vote for bleaching of undersea formations....
Quote from: Steelgrave on November 26, 2013, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: mirth on November 26, 2013, 12:19:06 PM
Turns out we have still have some balls:
http://freebeacon.com/u-s-flies-b-52s-into-chinas-air-defense-zone/
YES! I didn't see where any were shot down either. Go figure!
Guess the Chi-Comms didn't want to come out and play.
Well done - I think it was the right move at the right time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/11/26/japan-china-senkaku-islands/3746771/
Looks like a carrier group will now move throught the area as well.
oh goody!
maybe China will send their carrier battle group to play. ;D
Sort of like Corey Haim as "Lucas" trying to play football with the big boys?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 26, 2013, 10:35:49 PM
oh goody!
maybe China will send their carrier battle group to play. ;D
It would be an easy way for them to learn damage control.
anyone want to make bets on how many subs are attached to our carrier group and how many PLAN subs have a go?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 26, 2013, 10:45:23 PM
anyone want to make bets on how many subs are attached to our carrier group and how many PLAN subs have a go?
Each CVBG gets at least one SSN as a goalkeeper...PLAN subs are currently irrelevant. A single LA class could take out the bulk of their sub force. Forget about our dedicated ASW units.
I wouldnt be that cocky about it. I also wouldnt be surprised to find some of our allies D/E subs thrown in the mix.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 26, 2013, 11:10:59 PM
I wouldnt be that cocky about it. I also wouldnt be surprised to find some of our allies D/E subs thrown in the mix.
I don't think it's being cocky. We are the class of the world for ASW. The Brits might be better technically, but they don't match us for assets.
if shit hit the fan and I was in charge of Chinese subs I would mod a CVBG with everything and not care about losses. the political cost of losing a carrier with our current idiot in charge would be horrific.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 26, 2013, 11:25:59 PM
if shit hit the fan and I was in charge of Chinese subs I would mod a CVBG with everything and not care about losses. the political cost of losing a carrier with our current idiot in charge would be horrific.
Good luck. I doubt most of their subs would make it out of port, with or without opposition from us.
This smells like a Chinese party test of their own Intel gathering capabilities on the USA and Japan. Makes me go hmmm.
never underestimate your foe Mirth.
having said that, lets play.
SM-6 Achieves Initial Operational Capability
November 26, 2013 2:44 PM
WASHINGTON - The Standard Missile-6 (SM-6) tactical missile has reached initial operation capability, the Navy announced in a Nov. 26 release, with SM-6s successfully loaded onboard guided-missile destroyer USS Kidd in San Diego.
The SM-6 is designed to provide naval vessels with extended range protection against cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles and fixed and rotary wing aircraft.
"We're very pleased to achieve [initial operational capability] on schedule," said Capt. Mike Ladner, the major program manager of Surface Ship Weapons, whose portfolio includes SM-6. "The SM-6, with its ability to extend the battle space, truly improves shipboard air defense capability. I'm very proud of the entire Standard Missile team on this historic achievement."
SM-6 has entered full-rate production and the program has already delivered 50 missiles ahead of schedule and under budget. Follow-on test and evaluation will continue into 2014 to validate the integrated fire control capability in an operationally realistic environment.
Program Executive Office for Integrated Warfare Systems, an affiliated program executive office of the Naval Sea Systems Command, manages surface ship and submarine combat technologies and systems and coordinates Navy enterprise solutions across ship platforms.
http://www.seapowermagazine.org/stories/20131126-sm6.html
Quote from: mirth on November 26, 2013, 11:18:10 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 26, 2013, 11:10:59 PM
I wouldnt be that cocky about it. I also wouldnt be surprised to find some of our allies D/E subs thrown in the mix.
I don't think it's being cocky. We are the class of the world for ASW. The Brits might be better technically, but they don't match us for assets.
You do know that the Danish subs used to run circles around the US ASW during execise when we still had subs?. And I believe the swedes still did it last year on an exercise
Dont be so cocky, the US navy isnt infalable even if it is very good
In these days of smaller numbers, this could not happen again.
During the Yom Kippur War in 1973, after a month we had three carrier battle groups south and west of Crete. At that location, the only real danger to the carriers would have been the Israiles (only six years since the Liberty was attacked) or the small Soviet squadron stationed off Kithera.
The destroyers went nuts because they were told to ignore ASW and concentrate on AAW. Well, that's like telling a fireman to ignore the smoke in the room and fix the faucet. Every day there would be at least five good sonar contacts, which we were promptly told to not pursue.
The staff knew what was going on, but the ship's did not. We knew there was at least one, maybe two, Charlie/Victor nuclear sub, plus a fair number of pogey bait Foxtrots. The younger guys could get quite worked up about it all.
Finally, when the whole thing was over and the carriers turned west, the staff shared a signal from Subs/Atlantic, OutChopping submarines from the Med to the Atlantic. Can only remember Hammerhead from the list, but there were like eighteen subs that had been operating around the three groups for months.
Amazed there were no collisions.
^^^ thats what Im thinking is going to happen. PacRim d/e subs are about to get a great workout.
some interesting scenarios coming to mind
the Chi-bots are spamming every defence/military website I visit with China strong bs. its quite funny actually. the main effect of this ADIZ will be to tighten security operations between west Pacific countries. good job China, youre making the same mistakes the Soviets did. ;D
let the games begin!
George Washington Carrier Strike Group Joins AnnualEx 13
Story Number: NNS131125-04Release Date: 11/25/2013 8:48:00 AM
A A A Email this story to a friend Print this story
By Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Shannon Heavin, Commander, Task Force 70 Public Affairs
PHILIPPINE SEA (NNS) -- Demonstrating the extraordinary flexibility of a carrier strike group, USS George Washington (CVN 73) kicked off its participation in Annual Exercise (AnnualEx) 13, Nov. 25, just days after completing a humanitarian assistance mission under Operation Damayan in the Philippines.
AnnualEx 13 is designed to increase the defensive readiness and interoperability of Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) and U.S. naval forces through training in air and sea operations.
The complex exercise, which takes place in waters surrounding Japan, involves units in comprehensive scenarios involving maritime training in the air, surface and subsurface battlespaces in support of the defense of Japan.
AnnualEx allows the United States and Japan to practice and evaluate the coordination, procedures and interoperability elements required to effectively and mutually respond to the defense of Japan or to a regional crisis or contingency situation in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region, while building bilateral confidence and working relationships.
AnnualEx 13 strengthens the close, long-standing relationship of U.S. forces and JMSDF. This exercise demonstrates the continuing commitment to deepen strong ties of mutual support and friendship.
U.S. Navy participating units include aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73), Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruisers USS Antietam (CG 54), Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG 54), USS Lassen (DDG 82), USS McCampbell (DDG 85), USS Mustin (DDG 89) and maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft and a U.S. submarine.
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=77879
4 Burkes and a Tico in the BG. Guess we're sending a message.
the timing just works out. the exercise was planned for a while. somewhere I read that US military assets werent going to be bothered with which makes the whole ADIZ concept a play against Japan.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2013, 03:45:59 PM
the timing just works out. the exercise was planned for a while. somewhere I read that US military assets werent going to be bothered with which makes the whole ADIZ concept a play against Japan.
A joint exercise with the JMDSF inside the ADIZ works out perfectly then
This is going to get interesting down the road, if the Chi-Comms decide to challenge Japanese patrols inside the ADIZ. The Japanese already have their own ADIZ in that same area. The chances for a mishap are high.
Japanese F-15s vs Chinese knock-off Su-27s.... I wouldnt take that bet in Vegas after drinking a bottle of Absinthe.
The Japanese have that AEW bird that's better than AWACs. They can steer the 15s and pop the Chinese with AMRAAMs beyond visual range. Sweet done.
its not 'better' its just on a newer airframe. our AWACS can guide AMRAAMs to their heart content while F-22s and F-15s fly silent. the Japanese F-15s can however change into robots. ;)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2013, 04:20:35 PM
its not 'better' its just on a newer airframe. our AWACS can guide AMRAAMs to their heart content while F-22s and F-15s fly silent. the Japanese F-15s can however change into robots. ;)
Tom Clancy said it was better. :P
well the airframe is better.
Japan has probably already started making the Lexuses of subs which are so quiet they can plausibly load whatever sound they want. Meanwhile the crew relaxes in heated leather seats.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 27, 2013, 05:26:32 PM
Japan has probably already started making the Lexuses of subs which are so quiet they can plausibly load whatever sound they want. Meanwhile the crew relaxes in heated leather seats.
If the JMDSF wants a good laugh then it could have those subs sound like badly maintained Nork D/E boats while cruising under Chinese naval assets.
You can all rest easy, Caroline Kennedy is the new US ambassador to Japan, and she telling China to back down.
This actually is a good new article about this issue. It's about 10.5 minutes long and is from ABC News.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/video/caroline-kennedy-calls-china-rethink-airspace-restrictions-21035124
Can we just start calling it the Japanese Navy again and get it over with?
Quote from: Gusington on November 27, 2013, 08:40:41 PM
Can we just start calling it the Japanese Navy again and get it over with?
Careful, that's just one initial away from IJN...
Im fine with calling it the IJN again.
its not like they forgot who won.
Quote from: Gusington on November 27, 2013, 08:40:41 PM
Can we just start calling it the Japanese Navy again and get it over with?
Sounds good to me. I wish they'd have done that 10-15 years ago.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2013, 09:13:15 PM
Im fine with calling it the IJN again.
its not like they forgot who won.
Now that may scare the crap out of the Chinese.
Latest moves:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/29/world/asia/japan-south-korea-fly-military-planes-in-zone-set-by-china.html?hp&_r=0
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2013, 02:43:19 PM
let the games begin!
George Washington Carrier Strike Group Joins AnnualEx 13
Story Number: NNS131125-04Release Date: 11/25/2013 8:48:00 AM
A A A Email this story to a friend Print this story
By Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Shannon Heavin, Commander, Task Force 70 Public Affairs
PHILIPPINE SEA (NNS) -- Demonstrating the extraordinary flexibility of a carrier strike group, USS George Washington (CVN 73) kicked off its participation in Annual Exercise (AnnualEx)
Operation AnnualEx? Isn't that the code name for Mirth's girlfriend?
No, that would be WeeklyEx.
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 28, 2013, 09:49:58 PM
No, that would be WeeklyEx.
I thought the name would give him plausible deniability.
I bet China will ratchet this up for years until it goes beyond where anyone else wants to be involved.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 29, 2013, 09:30:17 AM
I bet China will ratchet this up for years until it goes beyond where anyone else wants to be involved.
That's what Mirth says, too.
That is how they won the Korean war. This new US tourist as POW thing reeks of some puppetmaster telling the NORKS what to do. Would they do this on their own? Is Korea seen as a better place to display Chinese military resolve than their own mainland?
To confuse the situation, we sent in Biden
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/world/asia/biden-in-japan-calibrates-message-over-tensions-with-china.html?hp
so now Japans air defense will be based on shotgun warnings?
I think Japan will be realizing that they need to take care of themselves. And I'm confident they can do that if push comes to shove.
hmmm I think the Japanese have known that for a while and have long taken measures to take care of themselves.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 03, 2013, 09:35:41 PM
hmmm I think the Japanese have known that for a while and have long taken measures to take care of themselves.
they've coasted on our defense dollars since the war, but yes they can fend for themselves.
I think thats being pretty unfair to the Japanese Defense Forces. theyve made their own tanks, ships and planes for a very long time. their Navy is probably the 2nd best in the region after the US and their sub force is no joke.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 03, 2013, 09:42:41 PM
I think thats being pretty unfair to the Japanese Defense Forces. theyve made their own tanks, ships and planes for a very long time. their Navy is probably the 2nd best in the region after the US and their sub force is no joke.
It's not the hardware or their capabilities, both of which are substantial. What I meant is that they have been able to underfund on defense for over 50 years. I know there's a whole lot of politics behind that and I do not think we should be leaving them in the lurch now, but we shielded them for decades. I'm fine with them shouldering more of their own defense burden and they are well capable of doing so. A rewrite of their constitution, to allow for a more flexible military, is in order too.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 03, 2013, 09:32:35 PM
so now Japans air defense will be based on shotgun warnings?
<chuckle>
I saw we sent Biden to deal with this and immediately fast forwarded to the next news segment.
Sending Biden will tell the Chinese very clearly one thing: we don't give a rat's ass.
Quote from: LongBlade on December 03, 2013, 10:09:53 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 03, 2013, 09:32:35 PM
so now Japans air defense will be based on shotgun warnings?
<chuckle>
I saw we sent Biden to deal with this and immediately fast forwarded to the next news segment.
Sending Biden will tell the Chinese very clearly one thing: we don't give a rat's ass.
I doubt he'll be that coherent, but yeah that's the message.
I dont think the Japanese have underfunded their military at all. with the exception of their F-15s and some older F-4s all of their kit is homegrown and developed.
for instance, this is not an F-16:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.military-today.com%2Faircraft%2Fmitsubishi_f2.jpg&hash=08ae3094a09bee8b9f297ddd59674603b67f2c23)
this is not a Leopard:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frealitypod.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F08%2F103.jpg&hash=48f269eaf5e2c098fcab871be9886e40caddcab1)
and this is not a destroyer:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seaforces.org%2Fmarint%2FJapan-Maritime-Self-Defense-Force%2FDestroyer%2FHyuga-class-Dateien%2Fimage013.jpg&hash=b107a63bd47d7af740910a07797907dc7d3a5e48)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 03, 2013, 10:27:44 PM
I dont think the Japanese have underfunded their military at all. with the exception of their F-15s and some older F-4s all of their kit is homegrown and developed.
for instance, this is not an F-16:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.military-today.com%2Faircraft%2Fmitsubishi_f2.jpg&hash=08ae3094a09bee8b9f297ddd59674603b67f2c23)
this is not a Leopard:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frealitypod.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F08%2F103.jpg&hash=48f269eaf5e2c098fcab871be9886e40caddcab1)
and this is not a destroyer:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seaforces.org%2Fmarint%2FJapan-Maritime-Self-Defense-Force%2FDestroyer%2FHyuga-class-Dateien%2Fimage013.jpg&hash=b107a63bd47d7af740910a07797907dc7d3a5e48)
and this is not China's:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjapanfocus.org%2Fdata%2F4747_senkaku_islands.png&hash=dcad95ecbe58233cc9b59cdc1a40b376d665ac46)
Fixed that for ya.
I'm not going to argue with you Star, when I already said that Japan can look after itself just fine. ;-)
I'm debating. You'll know when we're arguing. 8)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 03, 2013, 10:52:30 PM
I'm debating. You'll know when we're arguing. 8)
the ball gags and pink leotards come out....
not anymore.
you wore them out in the climate thread.
youre not supposed to chew through the gag ball.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 04, 2013, 12:16:34 AM
not anymore.
you wore them out in the climate thread.
youre not supposed to chew through the gag ball.
it was bacon flavoured
fair enough.
its my bad anyway getting that flavored Aveeno.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 04, 2013, 12:41:41 AM
fair enough.
its my bad anyway getting that flavored Aveeno.
straight from LB's stash no doubt
I only deal with experts in their fields.
"If the U.S. is truly committed to lowering tensions in the region, it must first stop acquiescing to Tokyo's dangerous brinkmanship. It must stop emboldening belligerent Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to constantly push the envelope of Japan's encroachments and provocations."
[/size]
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/04/us-japan-china-usa-idUSBRE9B303220131204 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/04/us-japan-china-usa-idUSBRE9B303220131204)
Ppffffffftttttttt. They have no honor.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F400x%2F23393380.jpg&hash=cfdc1a0720f51ecda22f3f1dc716e169bbd5d062)
y'all are going to love this spin:
Quote
"Smog may affect people's health and daily lives ... but on the battlefield, it can serve as a defensive advantage in military operations," said an article on the website of Global Times, a nationalist newspaper affiliated to the Communist Party's mouthpiece the People's Daily.
"Missile guidance that relies on human sight, infrared rays and lasers could be affected by smog in varying degrees, the article said. It explained that tiny particles in the air contributing to air pollution could hinder missile guidance systems.
"The article said that during the Kosovo war, soldiers of the then Federal Republic of Yugoslavia used smoke from burning tires to hamper Nato air strikes. The smoke reduced visibility, hindering reconnaissance efforts, the article said.
"...The article also said that during the first Gulf war, sand storms reduced the identification distances of thermal imaging equipment on US tanks from 2,500 metres to 800 metres, while optical detection of Iraqi tanks was reduced to almost nil."
http://www.businessinsider.com/nationalist-newspaper-puts-positive-spin-on-chinas-smog-problem-2013-12?IR=C
Yeah because we all know that things like FLIR and thermal imaging technology haven't changed an iota in over 20 years... ::)
Looks like the Chinese army-navy needs to learn how to properly steer a vessel. They're not quite ready for prime time.
QuoteThe guided missile cruiser USS Cowpens, which recently took part in disaster relief operations in the Philippines, was confronted by Chinese warships in the South China Sea near Beijing's new aircraft carrier Liaoning, according to officials familiar with the incident.
"On December 5th, while lawfully operating in international waters in the South China Sea, USS Cowpens and a PLA Navy vessel had an encounter that required maneuvering to avoid a collision," a Navy official said.
"This incident underscores the need to ensure the highest standards of professional seamanship, including communications between vessels, to mitigate the risk of an unintended incident or mishap."
source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/13/chinese-naval-vessel-tries-to-force-us-warship-to-stop-in-international-waters/
sounds like a play from the Soviet seamanship manual circa 1980.
They tried to stop a U.S. Navy cruiser in international waters? Seriously? Shit like that makes me wish the Cowpens had sunk the entire ChiComm battlegroup and continued on her way.
Quote"This incident underscores the need to ensure the highest standards of professional seamanship, including communications between vessels, to mitigate the risk of an unintended incident or mishap."
...GrogHeads Translate...
QuoteBitch best step off and not be frontin' again or next time we'll send a...a strongly-worded letter.
heres a more complete article with other naval events listed:
http://freebeacon.com/chinese-naval-vessel-tries-to-force-u-s-warship-to-stop-in-international-waters/
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 13, 2013, 01:00:57 PM
sounds like a play from the Soviet seamanship manual circa 1980.
That would be the "Our hulls are cheaper to repair than your hulls" win.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 13, 2013, 01:29:41 PM
heres a more complete article with other naval events listed:
http://freebeacon.com/chinese-naval-vessel-tries-to-force-u-s-warship-to-stop-in-international-waters/ (http://freebeacon.com/chinese-naval-vessel-tries-to-force-u-s-warship-to-stop-in-international-waters/)
It'd be a shame if one of those ChiComm LSTs had a mishap in the form of a Mark 48.
Quote from: mirth on December 13, 2013, 01:16:43 PM
They tried to stop a U.S. Navy cruiser in international waters? Seriously? Shit like that makes me wish the Cowpens had sunk the entire ChiComm battlegroup and continued on her way.
Funny, I had a dream a couple nights ago that I was watching a US China furball over the ocean. All the Chinese planes were splashed easily.
Quote from: mirth on December 13, 2013, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 13, 2013, 01:29:41 PM
heres a more complete article with other naval events listed:
http://freebeacon.com/chinese-naval-vessel-tries-to-force-u-s-warship-to-stop-in-international-waters/ (http://freebeacon.com/chinese-naval-vessel-tries-to-force-u-s-warship-to-stop-in-international-waters/)
It'd be a shame if one of those ChiComm LSTs had a mishap in the form of a Mark 48.
Would you like to buy some Canadian ice breakers for your South China Sea tours? ;-)
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on December 13, 2013, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: mirth on December 13, 2013, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 13, 2013, 01:29:41 PM
heres a more complete article with other naval events listed:
http://freebeacon.com/chinese-naval-vessel-tries-to-force-u-s-warship-to-stop-in-international-waters/ (http://freebeacon.com/chinese-naval-vessel-tries-to-force-u-s-warship-to-stop-in-international-waters/)
It'd be a shame if one of those ChiComm LSTs had a mishap in the form of a Mark 48.
Would you like to buy some Canadian ice breakers for your South China Sea tours? ;-)
We are gonna need bigger boats
Vietnam has made a move.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-to-help-train-Vietnam-in-submarine-operations/articleshow/9987596.cms?intenttarget=no
They are buying six KILO subs from Russia and have entered a training program with India.
Have to wonder how the Chinese are taking all of this pushback. They have forced all their neighbors to work out mutual defense arrangements and beguj an arms race. It will be interesting to see what develops.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20131213/DEFREG01/312130010/Germany-Christens-First-New-Frigate-Class?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cp
Also, Germany has begun a new class of frigates that are designed for use in the tropics. Not since WWI has that country specifically designed vessels for use outside of Europe. They are not saying China, but one must wonder.
Quote from: besilarius on December 17, 2013, 06:48:46 AM
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20131213/DEFREG01/312130010/Germany-Christens-First-New-Frigate-Class?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cp
Also, Germany has begun a new class of frigates that are designed for use in the tropics. Not since WWI has that country specifically designed vessels for use outside of Europe. They are not saying China, but one must wonder.
That's a ton of capability being packed into those F-125-class frigates. And at 7200 tons they aren't really frigates at all.
Perrrrhaps zey are lookink to rrrretake das Bahamas und restablish der Grosses Reich?
Nah. Surely the wiretapping of their Chancellor's phone would have uncovered such a heinous plot.
So, in all seriousness and possibly a dumb question, what reason would Germany have for building a vessel to operate on the other side of the world to counter China? What national interests do they have? Or is that 'making a contribution' based on 'suggestions' from the United States?
Israel might be the customer target as they just signed contracts for 3 new ship from Germany.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.562081
Quote from: besilarius on December 17, 2013, 06:48:46 AM
Also, Germany has begun a new class of frigates that are designed for use in the tropics. Not since WWI has that country specifically designed vessels for use outside of Europe. They are not saying China, but one must wonder.
Other than adding some extra-powerful AC, what does a ship need to be used in the tropics?
possibly a shallower draft for littoral sailing and maybe a different sonar rig.
Quote from: LongBlade on December 17, 2013, 12:00:53 PM
Quote from: besilarius on December 17, 2013, 06:48:46 AM
Also, Germany has begun a new class of frigates that are designed for use in the tropics. Not since WWI has that country specifically designed vessels for use outside of Europe. They are not saying China, but one must wonder.
Other than adding some extra-powerful AC, what does a ship need to be used in the tropics?
Stocks of light beer.
And a tanning deck.
Clothing optional outside bar.
Potential Chinese debt crisis.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/12/31/a-china-debt-crisis-in-2014/?hpid=z5
There has been speculation over China's infrastructure growth and it's sustainability for a couple of years now. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Chinese media and the PLA have been stirring the pot in the South China Sea around the same time as these debt concerns have gained more international attention. ::)
Quote from: Staggerwing on January 01, 2014, 10:31:27 AM
There has been speculation over China's infrastructure growth and it's sustainability for a couple of years now. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Chinese media and the PLA have been stirring the pot in the South China Sea around the same time as these debt concerns have gained more international attention. ::)
+1
Their stirring the pot is aimed at keeping their population focused on a mythical external enemy rather than their real problems - the collapse of their economy at home.
Beef lo mein sounds really good right now.
You're probably hyponatremic and/or hypokalemic. Hence, the craving for salty Chinese foods.
MSG and opium mixed in is more likely the culprit.
We had Vietnamese cuisine for dinner last night...yummy stuff!
He's probably hypovolemic as well. Lots of 'hypos' this AM vs the usual 'hyper'. :D
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2014/01/photo-op-of-year-plans-1st-carrier.html
Nice pics of the Liaonung battle group. Oh how far we have come from the Old Covered Wagon, the Langley.
This is a new website to me. May be worth keeping an eye on for Chinese military information.
its a bit of a stretch calling it a battle group.
training group would be far more accurate.
In Chinese milspeak, there is no difference.
Somebody did a good job of airbrushing out the training wheels.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 03, 2014, 07:03:35 PM
its a bit of a stretch calling it a battle group.
training group would be far more accurate.
It's a battle group if they're going up against Japanese fishing boats.....otherwise, not so much 8)
http://cimsec.org/losing-senkakus-win-china/
Interesting take on China's strategy, and it's options in the south china sea. Surprisingly, the author seems to think that Japan can be bought off, and China and Japan leave happy.
Quote from: besilarius on January 07, 2014, 10:21:14 PM
http://cimsec.org/losing-senkakus-win-china/
Interesting take on China's strategy, and it's options in the south china sea. Surprisingly, the author seems to think that Japan can be bought off, and China and Japan leave happy.
Thanks. Interesting scenarios.
for that second option to work a lot of countries have to play along and I dont see that happening. I also dont see the current leadership in Japan giving China an inch and they seem to have a lot of support from the people.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 07, 2014, 10:30:01 PM
for that second option to work a lot of countries have to play along and I dont see that happening. I also dont see the current leadership in Japan giving China an inch and they seem to have a lot of support from the people.
That's the problem. Too many countries. Too much possible money. Japan and China may reach an accord because they're both too big to want to tangle with each other. The little kids on the block may not fare so well with China.
Teething problems on our latest carrier, the Gerald R. Ford.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/01/09/reliability-problems-emerge-crucial-components-billion-aircraft-carrier-modern-catapult-for-planes-falls-short-initial-tests-uss-gerald-ford/ZZVA1cN9W40iITvN9uK6yJ/story.html?p1=Well_BG_Links
This is really very normal. The only real cause of concern is can these systems mature? It is possible they were not well tested before acceptance.
Im hardly surprised that the catapult is causing fits. I am surprised they didnt go with proven technology for the arresting gear.
ten zillion parts, all from the lowest bidder.
Im also surprised that the radar and communications gear is wonky. theyve got the space so why no stick a AGEIS system on it? its not like its going to be the center of the groups anti air support as that gets done on the Ticos and Burkes.
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=78601
the Washington's SLEP will effectively remove it from service for about a year and the Reagan's move is pretty much a non story.
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=78521
thats a bit more interesting in that the Navy is moving BMD capable ships forward. IIRC most SM-3 type testing takes place in Hawaii as well.
Maintains the FDNP
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 15, 2014, 11:04:05 AM
the Washington's SLEP will effectively remove it from service for about a year and the Reagan's move is pretty much a non story.
Propaganda. 'Hey we mean it when we say we're serious about the Pacific'.
well we've always had a carrier home ported in Japan. what made the Washington's deployment news worthy was it was the first time Japan allowed a nuclear ship wessel to be home ported there. they're a little skittish about the nukes ya know. you also have to read between the lines of all of these stories. we've removed all of the old OHP frigates from Hawaii and replaced them with Burkes. thats a lot of added capability. also the Burke thats replacing the Tico is more capable across the board.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 15, 2014, 11:21:07 AM
well we've always had a carrier home ported in Japan. what made the Washington's deployment news worthy was it was the first time Japan allowed a nuclear ship wessel to be home ported there. they're a little skittish about the nukes ya know. you also have to read between the lines of all of these stories. we've removed all of the old OHP frigates from Hawaii and replaced them with Burkes. thats a lot of added capability. also the Burke thats replacing the Tico is more capable across the board.
Yeah, I picked on the Reuben James being replaced by a Burke, but that's also somewhat of a fleet wide trend. The Fig-7s are on the way out and there aren't enough Littoral Combat Ships to fill their roles. The Burkes are going to be taking up some of that slack.
The just passed spending bill has $100 million earmarked for BIW to begin planning for a fifth Burke under the current navy contract.
http://bangordailynews.com/2014/01/14/business/initial-funding-approved-for-fifth-ddg-51-destroyer-at-bath-iron-works/
it still cracks me up that we call them destroyers. ;D
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 15, 2014, 11:52:39 AM
it still cracks me up that we call them destroyers. ;D
Me too. The Flight IIIs will be nearly 10,000 tons.
We need to name one of our ships the Rick James.
Quote from: Gusington on January 15, 2014, 12:08:54 PM
We need to name one of our ships the Rick James.
And/or Superfreak.
Quote from: Gusington on January 15, 2014, 12:08:54 PM
We need to name one of our ships the Rick James.
So they can go around broadcasting over the ship's PA, "F*ck yo territorial waters, n*ggas?"
^Yes. And so it can announce its own arrival.
China missile tests.
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_01_27_2014_p18-657278.xml
the part I found interesting was this:
QuoteThe U.S. Air Force tested a Mach 15 HGV, the McDonnell Boost Glide Research Vehicle, four times in 1966-68, with two successful flights. A follow-on that represented an operational design, the McDonnell Douglas Advanced Maneuvering Reentry Vehicle (AMaRV), was tested in 1979-80. The tests did not lead to an in-service weapon because of a 1980s focus on basing modes, arms control and missile defense.
and people wonder why I dismiss Chinese technology. ::)
Great article. Thanks, Star.