...finally
Quote
Hi Guys,
Its been a long haul for all of us - but we are expecting to be able to release WOFF this December all being well.
Look for our all new WOFF website going live early next week - we will post the new URL shortly.
Thanks all for Hanging in there!
WM
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3868698/WOFF_Release_Date#Post3868698
http://www.overflandersfields.com/
Sigh...yet another flight sim to add to the collection... ::)
8)
Quote from: Toonces on November 28, 2013, 02:25:26 PM
Sigh...yet another flight sim to add to the collection... ::)
8)
I believe you have to have MS Combat Simulator 3 to be able to use this sim. It totally changes everything but the core program is pulled from the guts of MSCS3.
Yep. already have OFF with Hat in the Ring. Great game.
Are the planes easier to fly than in Rise of Flight?
...and the new website is up: http://www.overflandersfields.com/index.html
*sigh* looks like my old Intel Core2Quad 9450 2.66GHz/nvidia GTS 450 w/1GB vRAM may not be up to running it :(
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 28, 2013, 07:28:17 PM
Are the planes easier to fly than in Rise of Flight?
@ Staggerwing -- I think so yes, at least in the original OFF and HITR.
Dammit. I thought they said the new release wouldn't require an ancient copy of CFS3.
Looks like I'll have to dig around for one now. >:( Any ideas where to look? I'm guessing it requires a physical disk..
Edit: Nevermind.. look like amazon still has plenty.
^Yup, you will need a CD version of CFS3 unless you can find a DVD version (which seems to be rare). But lots of copies of CFS3 (CD) still available on Amazon and Ebay. As long as it took them, they should've come up with a new engine by now.
Quote from: steve58 on December 01, 2013, 08:32:59 PM
^Yup, you will need a CD version of CFS3 unless you can find a DVD version (which seems to be rare). But lots of copies of CFS3 (CD) still available on Amazon and Ebay. As long as it took them, they should've come up with a new engine by now.
Thanks. I had just checked Amazon and they have some.
Makes me wonder how long the supplies of CFS3 disks will last when something like this happens. Surely they aren't still being pressed?
Back in the day I got a copy of CFS3 from Target for 8.99.
Yeah, I have one from way back. I hope I can find it... :-\
The local Staples (Omaha, NE) has the CD version. I think I've seen it at Office Max/Depot as well. Like $9.
Here's a listing for the game at Tigerdirect. It's about $16 with shipping.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7363334&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE&gclid=COKhouLJkLsCFdBlOgodKGsALg
Quote from: Gusington on December 01, 2013, 09:13:29 PM
Back in the day I got a copy of CFS3 from Target for 8.99.
^ this.
I was hoping they would have totally divorced CFS3. Using that old engine held OFF back and it will ultimately hobble WOFF. On the other hand, nobody else is attempting to create an immersive single player campaign. I guess they got me on that one. Hopefully they can create an immersive flight experience like Rise of Flight despite that ancient engine. In addition, I always felt that OFF was a patchwork game, always felt more like a gloried mod than a game onto itself. Hopefully it is feel more like a stand-alone product.
I agree with Swatter...OFF never grabbed me the way I wanted it to. I wonder what the price will be for WOFF...
Quote from: steve58 on December 01, 2013, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 28, 2013, 07:28:17 PM
Are the planes easier to fly than in Rise of Flight?
@ Staggerwing -- I think so yes, at least in the original OFF and HITR.
I'm a casual flight-sim gamer, not hardcore, and I found OFF to be much easier to get into and enjoy than ROF.
I think its also more flexible in configuring how you play (easy --> hard core). Here is the configuration setup screen from OFF (the original, didn't have HITR loaded. I think there were some changes in the config screen with HITR, but this will give you an idea what can be changed)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx14%2Flangev%2FOffConfig_zpsdfa2cda9.jpg&hash=e9ec73d9a11fb447d633ae9cfe2b22640a83ed9c)
Quote from: steve58 on December 01, 2013, 08:21:59 PM
...and the new website is up: http://www.overflandersfields.com/index.html
*sigh* looks like my old Intel Core2Quad 9450 2.66GHz/nvidia GTS 450 w/1GB vRAM may not be up to running it :(
Wow..the recommended specs for this are freakin high, even though it's based on an ancient game engine.
Give them credit, though, for posting specs that probably really reflect what it takes to run the game well. All too often, 'recommended' specs seem more designed not to scare off customers with mid or low range rigs than provide an actual estimate of the hardware needed. Or they're too vague to be meaningful -- "DirectX 10 compatible graphics card" and the like...
Quote from: smittyohio on December 02, 2013, 11:29:32 AM
Quote from: steve58 on December 01, 2013, 08:21:59 PM
...and the new website is up: http://www.overflandersfields.com/index.html
*sigh* looks like my old Intel Core2Quad 9450 2.66GHz/nvidia GTS 450 w/1GB vRAM may not be up to running it :(
Wow..the recommended specs for this are freakin high, even though it's based on an ancient game engine.
The screenshots look fairly good. Not to ROF standards, but doable. The aircraft textures are so-so but I think the big problem is the detail of the models themselves. I'm sure that's limited by the ancient engine they're using. :-[ They must've shoehorned some extra gfx magic into this version though because the ground and clouds looks good from on high. I definitely want to check it this much-touted campaign system, if they're not gonna go all Matrix on us. :P
Sounds like they were hoping for a release this weekend (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3872958/Re_WOFF_Release_Date#Post3872958). Looks like WOFF will be out sometime this week...
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Sorry Guys we were hoping for WOFF release this weekend, but now its looking like early next week - rest assured we are doing all we can.
This part of the project though is out of our hands...
HTH
WM
Due to my system specs, I'll be watching this one from the sideline :-\
You know, I'm not sure this is a day 1 purchase for me. It probably is. But I really haven't worn out my copy of OFF yet, which is a fine game in its own right.
I may just wait a bit and see what the crowd's reaction is first.
^Me too, since I was not so hot for OFF.
Do send in some reports. I never bought OFF.
I liked RoF but the campaign was lackluster. I just don't feel like having to hunt down, order and install CFS-3. I will stick with RoF I suppose. Plus I like the flight modeling
You're not the first person to say that. Honestly I don't understand it. I see CFS3 in the bargain rack at Target all the time, and it's also available on Amazon.com for a very reasonable price. I just don't see what's so hard about it.
That, and its under 10.00 almost everywhere.
Quote from: Gusington on December 09, 2013, 08:11:08 AM
That, and its under 10.00 almost everywhere.
My copy of CFS3 arrived from Amazon pretty quickly, last week. It was $5 and shipping was negligible since I ordered it was some other stuff.
I figured that I'd toss it into my cart in order to be prepared. Not sure if I'll get WOFF on day one - mostly because I've rarely been playing computer games lately. But that may push me.
Yeah, but what I'm saying is for me, it's easier NOT to order and install CFS3 and play RoF instead. I'm a lazy gamer and if I have to take extra steps, I need a reason and for me, a better campaign isn't enough...especially as I enjoy RoF.
I'm lazy...kind of interested in it, but too lazy.
I suppose if the reviews for you guys are good enough, I might do it
Sounds like I may be the only one diving in fairly quickly. My decision on how soon will probably hinge on immediate reports of big issues so I may give it a day or two. I just hope I don't experience any odd issues with installing that old CFS3 on a newer OS. >:(
Looks like there have been quite a few preview vids put up over the weekend, on their site's media page:
http://www.overflandersfields.com/gallery.html
Nefaro would you mind posting a couple of screenshots when you can? My visuals in OFF always looked subpar amd I never knew why.
Couple of questions.
1) Has the price been announced? If not, what did the older modules sell for?
2) Will this be something that can be downloaded or is it only in physical format?
They haven't announced the price yet. I believe the older one went for $ 29.95 but it was DVD only and it was like $8 for shipping so I never bought it.
The new one will be a download or a hard copy.
Quote from: magnus on December 09, 2013, 05:55:14 PM
They haven't announced the price yet. I believe the older one went for $ 29.95 but it was DVD only and it was like $8 for shipping so I never bought it.
The new one will be a download or a hard copy.
Same with me, I never bought the original, cause of the 'no download' option, and the outrageous shipping.. That's how I found RoF instead..
It will be interesting to see how this one turns out....tempted by it. I purchased ROF when it first came out and looked awesome from the start. But for some reason, never fully hooked me. I think some of the reason are the following:
1) Having to buy all the planes and add-ons....I realize its their sales model and how they stay in business, but would prefer it to be included.
2) Seems more slanted to multi-player....but maybe it has been improved over time.
3) I found it extremely difficult to hit my targets....likely my lack of skill, but in most games I have at least a chance to hit things
Maybe I should try it again versus invest in this new game.....not a real big fan of having to load some outdated flight sim first and then install the game. I realize it is likely easy to do, but too many steps for my short intention span:)
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 09, 2013, 06:52:28 PM
It will be interesting to see how this one turns out....tempted by it. I purchased ROF when it first came out and looked awesome from the start. But for some reason, never fully hooked me. I think some of the reason are the following:
1) Having to buy all the planes and add-ons....I realize its their sales model and how they stay in business, but would prefer it to be included.
2) Seems more slanted to multi-player....but maybe it has been improved over time.
3) I found it extremely difficult to hit my targets....likely my lack of skill, but in most games I have at least a chance to hit things
I think one of the big reasons for #3 being such a problem in ROF is because of the insane amount of increasing pitch the devs put on all the aircraft. I still have difficulties believing it was that bad, or even pitching in the correct direction.
To be more detailed about the issue - your aircraft constantly attempting to do a slow upward loop means that in order to make small adjustments, while aiming in a turn, you have to actually
push the stick forward while you're in a full-on turn. The natural pitching upward of the flight models often pushes your nose past your target, turning you faster than you want.
So small adjustments to your aim while turning usually requires you to both push & pull your joystick near it's center position. This poses a serious issue with joysticks since the forward and back gimbals are two separate control interfaces.. there are varying degrees of deadspace and "play" when transitioning between pushing the stick forward and pulling it back. Since we have to do both in small bits, due to the constant upward pull of the flight models in ROF, it makes for poor fine control when doing so. It's a problem inherent with joystick gimbals, and something that the real sticks in the real planes didn't have.
It's my biggest complaint about ROF.
I agree...could also not tweak my joystick enough to find a good way to handle the plane. Way too sensitive.
I don't remember having too much difficulty flying or fighting the albatross DVa but I do remember that I could not fly the camel without going into a death spin
The German planes are way easier to fly (IMO) in RoF. I definitely always go German online if I can. Plus, their planes just look cooler.
I haven't seen a price for WOFF yet but I'm guessing $50...maybe $40 but I expect $50.
IIRC OFF was close to 60.00 when it was new.
Hhmmm....that might be a little much for me to jump in....and then you still have to buy cfs for a few more bucks.
$30 would be much more desirable:)
I didn't want to say $60, but that also wouldn't surprise me.
If they go $60 the focus of the forum discussions will be the price point. I can already hear the posts (yes, I can hear written words). If they go $40 (maybe $50) the discussion will focus on the game.
It is what it is.
60.00 is high, admittedly. If the campaign makes me smell the flak and duck down in my seat, well...to me, that's worth it.
Release is like...tomorrow, isn't it??
Is it? Ok, well I guess we'll find out the price soon enough.
I'd just prefer to hear the forums flood with gameplay impressions rather than price discussions ala Command, if you know what I mean. ::)
I want to folks to tell me how it runs on their rigs and whether it is a real jump in quality over OFF.
Quote from: mikeck on December 09, 2013, 08:38:37 PM
I don't remember having too much difficulty flying or fighting the albatross DVa but I do remember that I could not fly the camel without going into a death spin
The DVa is definitely the easiest to handle. Although it still has that huge steady upward pitch that all aircraft in ROF has so keeping adjusting your rate of turn, in a bank, can still be a pain in the ass since your stick passes between push & pull so much (as I mentioned).
As for going into spins, all the rotary aircraft like the Camel are prone to doing that. It doesn't bother me so much since the odd torque on those things looks to be appropriate. You also have to push the nose downward and apply lots of rudder before turning to the right or they will completely stop your turn. The instability and general moodiness of the rotary-engined ones takes some getting used to, but it's appropriate as far as I can tell.
I just take issue with all the aircraft requiring you to constantly push so far forward on the stick just to hold level flight, in ROF. Far too exaggerated I would think.
As I have been browsing the game forum, I learned something I wasn't aware of, not sure if others were too. We all know you must own a copy of cfs to play the game, nothing new there. However, I learned there are two versions of the game, one that comes on DVD and one that comes on cd. If you buy the cd version, you need to install cfs on your system and when you play the game the cd must be in the drive. If you have the DVD version, you don't have to install it and you don't have to keep it in the drive to play the game. During the install process you just have to put the cfs DVD in so it can copy a few files but after that no longer needed.
So it seems like if your going to buy cfs, best to look for the DVD version, even though it may cost a couple of dollars more. Amazon seems to have copies for around $10.
This all assumes the new version installs like the old version.
Cool thanks for posting that...I don't remember which version I have...I think it is the DVD version.
What I am looking for at release is related to what others have posted...I want to see other people's graphics settings. Because after spending a nice chunk on the original OFF I was ultimately disappointed in how it looked...but I wonder if it was because I was doing something wrong...
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 10, 2013, 05:26:15 AM
As I have been browsing the game forum, I learned something I wasn't aware of, not sure if others were too. We all know you must own a copy of cfs to play the game, nothing new there. However, I learned there are two versions of the game, one that comes on DVD and one that comes on cd. If you buy the cd version, you need to install cfs on your system and when you play the game the cd must be in the drive. If you have the DVD version, you don't have to install it and you don't have to keep it in the drive to play the game. During the install process you just have to put the cfs DVD in so it can copy a few files but after that no longer needed.
So it seems like if your going to buy cfs, best to look for the DVD version, even though it may cost a couple of dollars more. Amazon seems to have copies for around $10.
This all assumes the new version installs like the old version.
Awww for fuckssake. I got the CD-ROM version. ::)
As long as WOFF's DRM isn't something stupid, I'll be happy.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 10, 2013, 03:51:48 AMI just take issue with all the aircraft requiring you to constantly push so far forward on the stick just to hold level flight, in ROF. Far too exaggerated I would think.
Sorry to take this OT, but if you shift your pitch curve down (or buy a FFB stick) this issue goes away
Quote from: Father Ted on December 10, 2013, 05:25:43 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 10, 2013, 03:51:48 AMI just take issue with all the aircraft requiring you to constantly push so far forward on the stick just to hold level flight, in ROF. Far too exaggerated I would think.
Sorry to take this OT, but if you shift your pitch curve down (or buy a FFB stick) this issue goes away
I did start adjusting all my pitch centerings down. It took ~26% or more adjustment on many of them! That's just ridiculous. It also results in a loss of fine control due to the curve becoming steeper due to the change. I had to use a middling adjustment so the sensitivity wouldn't ramp up to much over the whole spread. I wasn't happy with this workaround, although it helped a bit.
Seriously.. having to constantly push
over one quarter of it's range forward on your joystick in order to somewhat hold your altitude is just insane. It may be the only thing I complain about in ROF but it definitely makes me scratch my head and wonder, "what the f---?". From the few pilot accounts I've seen, they generally had to jockey the stick all around by small bits to maintain level flight - not constantly push the stick foward 1/4 of the way to fight a constant looping tendency. ???
I suspect WOFF/OFF probably portrays this at more sensible levels, like all the other flight sims out there. ROF is the only one I've seen go nuts on it's level-flying flight model like this.
WOFF was just released today.
I went ahead an purchased. Gotta wait a few minutes for the email with the download in it, however.
There is also a release day patch (v1.1) on their site. Hopefully that doesn't bode any extra craziness. Hasn't this been in the works for over 3 years?
EDIT: d/l'ing now. It's 4.4GB in size and the d/l speed is a bit jumpy at times.
Nice. Can you do me a solid and post your graphics settings when you get to it? Despite my lukewarm feelings on the prior release, I still may get this. What is the price btw?
Quote from: Gusington on December 11, 2013, 02:33:04 PM
Nice. Can you do me a solid and post your graphics settings when you get to it? Despite my lukewarm feelings on the prior release, I still may get this. What is the price btw?
Yes, I will post my settings and some screenshots when I get it up & running. I still have to install CFS3 and TrackIR on this new computer and tweak the latter (I forgot to back up my TrackIR settings from the old machine). So it may be awhile before it's all ready to go later.
Thanks Nefaro. I may have to be an adult about this and wait...60.00 asking price is a bit hefty.
Quote from: Gusington on December 11, 2013, 03:14:55 PM
Thanks Nefaro. I may have to be an adult about this and wait...60.00 asking price is a bit hefty.
Sadly me too.
Of course if people are.ranting and raving it will be harder to resist.
$60? I think I'm glad my rig may not be able to run it ???
Quote from: steve58 on December 11, 2013, 05:09:11 PM
$60? I think I'm glad my rig may not be able to run it ???
Agreed. I'm good with OFF and I don't have enough time to fly that as it is. Don't get me wrong. The OFF team does excellent work but I have not exhasted by enjoyment of OFF (much less First Eagles 2) quite yet.
60 dollars for a game whose engine is so old it uses CSF3!!!? Who do they think they are Matrix!!!
Quote from: Gusington on December 11, 2013, 03:25:18 PM
Of course if people are.ranting and raving it will be harder to resist.
Yep, that usually pulls me in as well.....people must still be downloading, fairly quiet on the official boards. Need to hear some impressions before I consider jumping in.
Yeah its quiet. In the meantime I did find a few copies of the DVD version of CFS3 over at Amazon if anyone is interested. I have a copy in my cart if the din of praise becomes too much :)
Quote from: Gusington on December 11, 2013, 08:15:46 PM
Yeah its quiet. In the meantime I did find a few copies of the DVD version of CFS3 over at Amazon if anyone is interested. I have a copy in my cart if the din of praise becomes too much :)
Bought mine the other day and it arrived today:) It would be a shame if I wasted my DVD purchase and not pick up this game.
I lost my CD copy of CFS3 :(
I've been getting some ground and/or cloud flickering in the game. It's not happening all the time, but still noticeable. I stopped using my TrackIR and it doesn't happen as often now. S'ok as the TIR head movement was giving me a headache anyway. Luckily this game looks to have a Padlock toggle.
I'm quite stumped on how to advance the game time smartly without having to fly while in accelerated time. The autopilot doesn't seem to do much of anything so I hesitate to crank the time accel up while still flying the stick. There is also a "Warp" key command but it also doesn't do anything. I must be missing some extra steps or something..
As for the graphics, they certainly aren't anything to write home about, but they're okay (other than the occasional flicker). I am using 4xAA at 1680x1050 screen resolution and I'm still seeing more jaggies than I'd like in external views. No jaggies in cockpit view, however. ??? Must be the old gfx engine. I turned it up to 8xAA and it still ran well but there would be a split second hang whenever I moved my head from the forward view. My gfx card didn't make a peep and I have everything turned up all the way in the game's settings so it's not taxing my machine (although it is quite new).
Some screenshots as promised.
(on a GTX760 2GB card with maximum settings and 4xAA)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg833%2F4037%2Fol26.jpg&hash=a4685eab521379e988c87a624b23451613bdfc4a)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg842%2F8099%2Ffcwp.jpg&hash=57318e9d2f7f4c22cd836b67ced774a60d4ebbdd)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg268%2F5640%2F3qoj.jpg&hash=ef228cc0f6a55409bf24db32ae81095a5126602a)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg809%2F8441%2F78z8.jpg&hash=6c584933021f48d3e2cb5abc5834567e1f0db974)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg14%2F6489%2F82fv.jpg&hash=41b5e447ad345d4e0201c97dc7a0870e0e2abe85)
Thanks! Keep'em coming if you can.
Would love to hear about the dynamic campaign features and its immersion. I don't expect much out of an older game's graphics so not too concerned if not the best in the world. But it seems most people praised its campaign system so would love to know more about it and what was so great. Its that aspect of the game which would sell me on it.
Thanks again for posting your initial findings and pictures.
Quote from: Toonces on December 09, 2013, 10:23:55 PM
I didn't want to say $60, but that also wouldn't surprise me.
If they go $60 the focus of the forum discussions will be the price point. I can already hear the posts (yes, I can hear written words). If they go $40 (maybe $50) the discussion will focus on the game.
It is what it is.
8)
I'm gonna head over to SimHQ and bask in the glory of a good ole fashioned forum flame war over this... 8)
Quote from: Toonces on December 12, 2013, 12:29:06 AM
I'm gonna head over to SimHQ and bask in the glory of a good ole fashioned forum flame war over this... 8)
Not much action over there yet....also haven't seen any major complaints on pricing unless I missed it. I think most people knew what to expect already so no major surprises.
Yeah, totally lame. ::)
Is it worth $60 for WOFF and whatever else for a copy of CFS3? I dunno yet. For me, it may well be since I enjoy the period and simming in it.
WOFF has a couple good things going for it. The flight model seems pretty good and it doesn't have any insanity like the massive nose-up tendency in ROF yet the aircraft still have their quirks and you must use them to their limits without overdoing it. I'm finding that despite being a little bit easier to fly than ROF, it's still difficult to get kills. Especially since you have to submit actual Kill Claim forms to get official ones! :D This brings me to the campaign..
I'm starting to see why the campaign system has been touted so much. Not only are all the pilots and aircraft conditions being tracked, the landscape is alive. You can see some examples in the following screenshots. There are actual troops on the ground battling it out and I got to witness artillery barrages landing around some. The feel of the battle area is pretty good, including the behavior of enemy flights (they're doing actual missions). I believe part of the reason the requirements for this one are higher is because of all that's going on in the background.
In this series, I was flying my Sopwith Strutter over our side of the front line and we soon happened upon a flight of German Albatros D.IIIs. I heard some whizzing bullets at one point but clung onto one Albatros, got a few rounds into him, but he turned to run after I did so. My slow-ass Strutter couldn't close the distance so I turned home after poor attempts at long-range burst fire had nearly depleted my ammo. (I scored 20 hits to no avail - mostly when we were dogfighting.) My kingdom for a Camel! :D
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg96%2F2461%2Fb6p9.jpg&hash=51db4309f33b3583fe6baad46171921124f10550)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg191%2F6681%2Fn3gp.jpg&hash=6a4980e375ffa598e354dc7295d8c9216ca81b7d)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg542%2F2848%2Fwg7z.jpg&hash=d836ba290af42ec1ee76cb9612d6c3f15b9dbfb0)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg138%2F7859%2Fy6ur.jpg&hash=d65212c7edf2b01e296fa422037675ca2ca6a84f)
Note: WOFF has been easy to deal with regarding situational awareness without using my TrackIR. After turning on the 'Tactical Display', you get a top-down view of whatever's within about 1/2 of a mile and ID them a bit under that. I have seen their indicator disappear off that display, briefly. That must be due to G-forces or blind spots. Combined with the enemy selector and the padlock toggle, it suffices. So if you don't feel like screwing up your neck any more than it already is, this one is SA-friendly with a good amount of view & indicator options that are individually switchable.
Darn you....had to mention the campaign/battlefield elements look good...those are the things that interest me the most......I am now officially on the clock as to how long it will take me to purchase this one:)
Well, maybe I will be saved yet.....should have read this first, but seems like you need a minimum video card with 1.5gb on it....I only have 1gb video card. Maybe it would still work but likely not worth risking $60 on it right now.
We are very similar Grim. Nefaro's talk on the battlespace had me leaning to yes also. But my video card also has only 1GB...
I bought the CFS3 a long time ago, or the original, but never bought the original due to the shipping costs.. CFS3 still not opened..
Thing that pisses me off about RoF, is not the nose rising.. but the poop on the windshield oil spills!
I wonder if it really needs that beefy an video card? The graphics don't look anywhere near RoF and that runs fine on my GTX 460 with 1 Gig of memory..
That's exactly the card I have...DOH.
Plus the graphics are scalable, right? DOH again.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 12, 2013, 01:38:32 AM
I'm starting to see why the campaign system has been touted so much. Not only are all the pilots and aircraft conditions being tracked, the landscape is alive. You can see some examples in the following screenshots. There are actual troops on the ground battling it out and I got to witness artillery barrages landing around some. The feel of the battle area is pretty good, including the behavior of enemy flights (they're doing actual missions). I believe part of the reason the requirements for this one are higher is because of all that's going on in the background.
The original even modeled gas attacks, so keep an eye out for green/yellow clouds on the ground over the front lines. The front was always alive. You'll see troop movements, vehicle convoys, and even the occasional tank.
Quote from: steve58 on December 12, 2013, 09:16:44 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 12, 2013, 01:38:32 AM
I'm starting to see why the campaign system has been touted so much. Not only are all the pilots and aircraft conditions being tracked, the landscape is alive. You can see some examples in the following screenshots. There are actual troops on the ground battling it out and I got to witness artillery barrages landing around some. The feel of the battle area is pretty good, including the behavior of enemy flights (they're doing actual missions). I believe part of the reason the requirements for this one are higher is because of all that's going on in the background.
The original even modeled gas attacks, so keep an eye out for green/yellow clouds on the ground over the front lines. The front was always alive. You'll see troop movements, vehicle convoys, and even the occasional tank.
Yes, I saw mention of gas attacks. I've also flown over truck convoys and trains. You can also hear a lot of that stuff, including air raid sirens when you're flying over enemy bases, train whistles and their clacking on the tracks, etc.
I think the game is held back by it's CFS3 engine but they managed to shoehorn a lot of little things into it.
I'm seeing some reports that the graphics card requirements are probably overstated. I'm sure you guys can play this at decent settings with a somewhat modern 1GB video card. You probably just can't crank some of the gfx densities up to 11 (or 5 in this case).
I got murdered three times last night. Usually from attacking against superior numbers. My first pilot, on his fourth mission in a Strutter, was sent to drop some bombs on an enemy airfield. All went well, the bombs were dropped somewhat on target, and then I spotted a flight of 4 or 5 Halberstadts on the way out. I turned to engage - my wingman did not. From what I've seen, if you're not the leader of a flight, you can't tell the others about enemy aircraft you've sighted - they just continue on unless they get fairly close. So anyway, I ended up dogfighting with a flight of Halbs and I believe a trailing group from my same squadron got mixed up with another. Then a third enemy flight jumped me. It was at least 8 to 1! DOOOM! My poor slow Strutter just wasn't fast enough to escape. I somehow managed to stay alive for a minute or two, and get a couple stray shots in, but inevitability got the best of me. :D
These AI pilots are mean and have quite a good aim on Normal. It sounds like they've been given quite an upgrade since OFF. I'm having a helluva time getting a kill thus far (none!) - I had an easier time doing so in ROF. I think it's partly due to the pitch sensitivity being a bit higher than I'd like, in the finer stick movements, but that's probably just an easy excuse.
Unfortunately it looks like the "Warp" hotkey just plain doesn't work. So you have to fly whole missions in Time Accel at most. The highest I dare leave it is 4x so each mission can take some time. :( I can do 8x time accel but my framerate drops dangerously low - I think all the stuff going on in the virtual world, at accelerated pace, slows even my new computer to a crawl when it's cranked up that high. I really wish 'Warp' worked.. would save lots of travel time.
Quote from: Tuna on December 12, 2013, 08:35:07 AM
I bought the CFS3 a long time ago, or the original, but never bought the original due to the shipping costs.. CFS3 still not opened..
Thing that pisses me off about RoF, is not the nose rising.. but the poop on the windshield oil spills!
I wonder if it really needs that beefy an video card? The graphics don't look anywhere near RoF and that runs fine on my GTX 460 with 1 Gig of memory..
ROF may support higher levels of DX on Win7. That's been the key for me with Strike Fighters 2 and my lil' ol' GT 240. The shader support and other stuff makes a huge difference and you won't see that in the CFS3 engine.
Nefaro have you flown any ground attack missions yet?
Quote from: Gusington on December 12, 2013, 01:45:03 PM
Nefaro have you flown any ground attack missions yet?
One. Dropped 4x40lb bombs on an enemy aerodrome. I just left autopilot on whilst flying over, to see how/when the AI drops bombs from 11k feet. That's the mission I got into a scrap with about 8 enemy fighters and died in a glorious fireball.
Which leads me to a complaint about my AI wingmen. My AI flight leader has thus far refused to order the flight to engage groups of enemy aircraft we've spotted. We're told that the new AI is not only good but it picks & chooses it's battles and also has a tendency to extend and run away when in a bad situation. All that is great except my wingmen haven't been aggressive at all, despite flying within sighting distance of enemy groups multiple times. Makes me wonder if it's
too skittish.
Another problem here is that all my new assignments put me in Flight 'B' which only has 3 planes assigned. German patrols are usually 4-6 aircraft apiece so I'm thinking that, even though my flight is on anti-air patrols & intercepts, my AI wingmen refuse to engage if outnumbered at all - even from an altitude advantage. ??? I put in a query at the SimHQ forums about it, so we'll see what everyone's been experiencing.
I was told to force Anti-Aliasing in my video card control panel, in Windows, instead of relying on the in-game AA. It did make for some improvements, even at the same 4xAA setting. What's more, I also turned on Anisotropic Filtering so the skins look better now too. 8)
I'm enjoying it, despite having a helluva time shooting someone down. I'm still kinda in the settings tweaking stage, especially since I can never seem to get my TrackIR sensitivities exactly where I want them.
Ridin' around in my Brisfit with the top down:
(and forced 4xAA, 8xAF)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg849%2F9355%2Fofko.jpg&hash=60a535bbb0ffa92081d8c6f6a6bb5285be6492d9)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg32%2F2976%2F6y7u.jpg&hash=bab0bd21ff387be5e65cc741c2bcd6aacd14678b)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg844%2F2599%2Fbdxk.jpg&hash=c88d655a5e688cfa95d0262eeb285d04dd4c1503)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg202%2F9307%2Fwd4i.jpg&hash=33f81c90a600b7ab8037b03733894d684269280e)
It'll never approach ROF levels of beauty but this is sufficient for me. :D
One of my biggest problems with ROF was not being able to shoot anything down......not sounding like it is any easier within this game........hhhmmm
Ever tried using the SweetFX or ENB mods in this one?
http://www.guru3d.com/files_details/sweetfx_shader_suite_download.html
http://enbdev.com/index_en.html
I don't know, those images look pretty good to me.
Quote from: Gusington on December 12, 2013, 06:55:03 PM
I don't know, those images look pretty good to me.
That last post of screenshots was after I forced AA & AF on in my Nvidia control panel. It
did make a difference, as one of the devs/forumites said it would.
Here's a screenshot from Wiggins at SimHQ ... Hamburger!
QuoteHere is what happens when you drop a DII on a local farm field (I killed a cow!!).
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimhq.com%2Fforum%2Ffiles%2Fusergals%2F2013%2F12%2Ffull-31617-70081-shot12_12_13_19_24_34.jpg&hash=5d665efe569759f7531e28d3fd352e4481122f83)
Buahhaha!
**
I've run into some issues with my Brisfit Autopilot when in a 6-plane flight. An AI often collides with me while I'm in Autopilot! I even got blamed for one of my wingmen tail-ending me! ???
As an update to the AI flight leader's aggressiveness.. evidentally their personality ratings, morale, etc also help determine how aggressive they are. I eventually got an experienced Ace as flight leader and he started taking us into the fray. All is well with this, there was just more factors at work than I knew. :)
Wow. Now that's immersion! (referring to the disparity between good and bad flight leaders... And also the cow)
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 12, 2013, 06:26:19 PM
One of my biggest problems with ROF was not being able to shoot anything down......not sounding like it is any easier within this game........hhhmmm
My gunnery skills just improved after I figured out how to reduce the pitch sensitivity. I killed an Albatross D.III in my Sopwith Pup just a few minutes ago! Yay! My first obvious kill! Not sure if any of my wingmen were close enough to confirm it in my official kill claim, however.
Doesn't matter.. that pilot got jumped by his victim's buddies soon after. Four of them. That little 'ole Pup just didn't have the speed to outrun the flock of Albatros DIII and DVs. Murderized again! :D
Being an Autumn 1917 start with that one, it looked like my squadron would soon be due for an aircraft upgrade, so I was hoping to work my way up to a Camel or SE5 within a couple months. Thus far my first four Pilots have been killed within a week. :o I got lots to learn yet. WOFF certainly isn't easy. The enemy pilots are fine shots and properly work in groups. Hell.. I started to wonder if one group used a loner to bait me into a trap, because a bunch of his buddies showed up suspiciously quickly when I did so.
Nice read. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1283972/Bravery-British-WWI-suicide-club-fighter-pilots-took-Germany-Red-Baron-15-hours-training-lasted-average-just-11-days.html
I'm seeing why new British pilots' lifepans averaged 11 days during the worst periods. There are tons of newer Albatross fighters out there in early-to-mid 1917 and they're faster than most British aircraft. If you're in a bad spot, there's not much chance of escaping. :o
What is the earliest start date available?
Quote from: Gusington on December 13, 2013, 09:05:44 AM
What is the earliest start date available?
Ummm.. like sometime in 1915? I dunno.. I'm only interested in around 1917 and up. Those early beaters just aren't that special to me. Even a late campaign start will take a lot of missions to finish by the end of the war (if I manage to survive long).
Don't tell me you don't want to fly some Airco pusher and try to get a kill in early 1915...
Quote from: Gusington on December 13, 2013, 11:33:24 AM
Don't tell me you don't want to fly some Airco pusher and try to get a kill in early 1915...
Not in the least. Screw those old windbags! :P I want something with a little better performance.
How dare you Sir! Hrmph.
The late war aircraft are just so much more beautiful than those fugly scamps. Smexy. ;)
I hate to say it but I may end up waiting for their next patch to play. There's a nasty AI aircraft control issue, in certain windy periods, where the AI hammerfists the stick and tends to collide with flight mates - notably me! So I've been losing aircraft to my wingmen more than the enemy lately. >:(
To their credit, the devs have been on top of bug reports thus far and a second patch was already released. I hope this third one gets checked out and posted up quick. I'm really enjoying WOFF - the map environment is tops.
HA smexy. Thanks for posting all your impressions...I of course am still on the fence...
The just released patch 1.3. Excellent post-release support. Fixed the strange AI steering issue I had.
I'm enjoying it thoroughly. Even though I keep getting the snot knocked out of me. The AI can be brutal.. noticeably so regarding their marksmanship. Including the rear gunners. On the flip side, it can be difficult to tell if my bullets are hitting and it's been tough for me to judge where the tracers are going in this game. I have made a couple kills thus far, and getting more hits all the time.
Not all the skins & such have been redone since WOFF. Reportedly some of the Nieuports don't. I believe they're gonna sell an expanded skins pack next week and the money goes to the skinners themselves. Dunno if that's a must for me or not.
I've managed to tweak the axis sensitivies and dead zones to a good spot now. Makes it easier to Gun the Hun.
So damage modeling...not so good?
Quote from: Gusington on December 13, 2013, 05:44:41 PM
HA smexy. Thanks for posting all your impressions...I of course am still on the fence...
Well thanks to Nefaro and a number of other good threads at the official forums, I crumbled again and purchased. The campaign and single player focus really drew me in. Sadly, looks like it will take 6+ hours to download, so won't have much time to play with it tonight.
I just hope my x52 joystick still works since I have not used the darn thing in ages!
Quote from: Gusington on December 13, 2013, 06:59:51 PM
So damage modeling...not so good?
It's okay from what I've experienced. The wings certainly come off in a variety of ways. My pilot tends to get wounded fairly often and if he takes a big hit, but still make it home, he often ends up dying afterward. I'd say the damage model is less forgiving than ROF.
Rumplers and maybe some of the other two-seaters seem pretty tough to take down but most of the single-seaters aren't too difficult if you can get a long burst into them. In
ROF, if you were firing from their rear, the fuselage would just soak up all the hits so you had to shoot the wings or get a higher angle-off to try & hit the engine or pilot. The aircraft don't soak up as many hits directly from the rear in WOFF.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 13, 2013, 08:56:10 PM
Quote from: Gusington on December 13, 2013, 05:44:41 PM
HA smexy. Thanks for posting all your impressions...I of course am still on the fence...
Well thanks to Nefaro and a number of other good threads at the official forums, I crumbled again and purchased.
Make sure you force AA and AF in your vid card software. Works better.
Some damage we inflicted on an Albatros:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg34%2F576%2F6nuz.jpg&hash=79f9e79b9f624ba4efeaaed646164f5f421edd62)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg19%2F732%2Fz6od.jpg&hash=af52b6565bc0817233e710a992d82bcbb157e4a8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg42%2F6002%2Fehqr.jpg&hash=9db974790837fb3373b8841e29031f67c322c7a6)
Finally finished downloading....took for a quick flight and promptly crashed and burned:)
Graphics and menu/campaign system look good to me....hardest part is going to be learning how to fly the planes (having tough time keeping flight level and steady) and then of course figuring out how I can actually kill the enemy:)
I have gotten a couple of error messages here and there, hopefully something that does not happen all the time.
If you go late war German, that is probably the best be for learning the gist of the game. Adjust from mid-1917 German planes as needed.
Quote from: Toonces on December 14, 2013, 05:35:25 AM
If you go late war German, that is probably the best be for learning the gist of the game. Adjust from mid-1917 German planes as needed.
Thanks for the tip...I'll give it a try later today.
Are there general levels of difficulty that are adjustable or is it just a matter of choosing from different planes? Can you choose 'easy flight mode' if you want to here? By the end of the weekend I may just go for it.
Quote from: Gusington on December 14, 2013, 09:14:35 AM
Are there general levels of difficulty that are adjustable or is it just a matter of choosing from different planes? Can you choose 'easy flight mode' if you want to here? By the end of the weekend I may just go for it.
Funny you said that Gus, was about to post about this myself. There is a difficulty setting for flight model (easy, hard, etc.) and other options like auto fuel mixture, ammo amounts, unlimited fuel, etc. But one thing I did not see in the campaign is an option on how difficult the enemy is. I am playing with all the easy settings but even finding them difficult to master and keep my plane in the air. Guessing likely due to the characteristics of each plane.
Keep in mind, I am not a great flight simmer so all this might be just me:)
^Me neither especially compared to Nefaro, Tuna and the other guys. Maybe that's why I didn't like OFF as much as I wanted to, and why I hesitate here a bit.
But I'm collapsing slowly :)
Quote from: Gusington on December 14, 2013, 09:22:58 AM
^Me neither especially compared to Nefaro, Tuna and the other guys. Maybe that's why I didn't like OFF as much as I wanted to, and why I hesitate here a bit.
But I'm collapsing slowly :)
One thing I have to say, take away the actual flying in the plane, the campaign setup, pilot setup, options setup, quick missions, etc seem really well done. Does appear to be a single player's dream and really has great atmosphere. Nice flight maps, briefings, etc. I just have to figure out how to survive in the air and things will be fine. Not regretting the purchase, I just have to stick with it and get better.
^You must be part of the WOFF team...loading up their page now. All I need is a reason why I am spending 60.00 plus $ for a new joystick and a DVD copy of CFS3 :)
Quote from: Gusington on December 14, 2013, 09:31:28 AM
^You must be part of the WOFF team...loading up their page now. All I need is a reason why I am spending 60.00 plus $ for a new joystick and a DVD copy of CFS3 :)
I wasn't sure at first either, but I decided what the heck. I purchased the DVD CFS for $10 last week just in case but I already have an x52 joystick. Although, I think I might invest in a more simplistic one like the Logitech Extreme since might be easier for me.
From a support perspective, I have to agree with Nefaro, these guys are awesome. I have had a few minor issues (nothing game breaking) and they have been communicating with me via email non-stop this morning, even on a Saturday. Plus, they have already distributed multiple patches.
Logitech Extreme eh?
Quote from: Gusington on December 14, 2013, 11:55:30 AM
Logitech Extreme eh?
I have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and it's gimbals are crap. The latest version anyway. ALL MADE IN CHINA!
The older Logitech Extremes had better precision (also have an old worn-out one of those). With my newer one, I had to put a good amount of dead zone on it because the left/right axis was so loose and often leaned more towards one side than the other. Maybe I just got one of the poorer examples, but I was never happy with it. She said her name was Lucy but they all called her "Loose". Picked up a relatively inexpensive Thrustmaster T-Flight X HOTAS last year and it made a huge difference just due to how much tighter the stick was.
While the Logitech Extreme sticks are popular for their inexpensiveness and having rudder controls, I would only recommend them if you can't afford a nice tight stick for better control and less settings tweaking (not necessarily a HOTAS). Just make sure you get something with rudder controls either way, as they're essential in these old WWI birds.
As for having problems flying the aircraft in WOFF, I suggest two things to make it easier.
1) Use the Trim controls.. they're in there and you can see their exact settings with your TAC display open and the 'Z' info data block hotkey on. It may not be historical but it'll save you some stick whipping when you're trying to fly straight & level (also use Autopilot often to avoid same).
2) Adjust the axis sensitivity to your liking. I had to lower the Pitch sensitivity on mine, and others have mentioned doing the same. I think the default pitch rate is too high. Just select the pitch axis in the Workshop's (aka Settings menu) ReMap Keys section and click advanced. The value on the left is the sensitivity and the one on the right is dead zone. I ended up dropping both settings on numerous axes but you can tweak those bit by bit to your liking. Just make sure you click SAVE after your changes! After lowering the sensitivity on the pitch, I had an easier time aiming since I didn't oversteer as much in turns.
Be aware that you can and will tear up your wings with high-G pulls and extremely fast dives. As with any sim, it comes down to getting a feel for what you're flying and pushing those limits as best you can.
I have a Wingman but its packed away...I need a good inexpensive stick for the time being...
I just had an amazing experience in a mission during the 3rd Ypres/Passchendale offensive.
It must've been one of the big days because the battle was raging like mad below us. Our flight of Nieuport 23s was to fly top cover for a flight of 2-seaters doing recon over the battlefield.
The artillery was plastering the hell out the enemy trenches and a city just behind them. Not sure which city it was, just that it was getting blown to hell. Archie was also making a good fireworks show a little closer than I liked.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg706%2F8651%2Fu9jt.jpg&hash=16b84b1b9b2cbaac0a55b484e8bc33d9daaa3817)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg853%2F5589%2Fakqn.jpg&hash=01d9b3b2dbaec3b313ae80eafaec22dbe4618d11)
We end up in a short dogfight on the first circuit around the German side of the lines, shooting down two enemy Albatros fighters in short order and rejoining our position over the recce aircraft. On our second pass, another Boche flight of D.Vs come screaming in off our 10 o'clock and a furball starts. I had the angles on one enemy plane, and was preparing to get a shot, but another one was in the process of getting on my tail. I got into a turning fight with this one for a good long eternity (which was probably only a couple-three minutes) and was getting somewhat advantaged on a regular basis before this guy would do a quick Split-S and get back into a turn before I could safely stick with him all the way in my Nieup23 which was constantly groaning at the effort.
I could hear my poor little Nieuport creaking and screeching from the strain and I knew that I was flying her on the edge. But it was working.. slowly. We were in a steady downward spiralling turn fight with his Split-S reverses interspersed. I finally managed to get on his rear quarter and started pulling lead for a steady burst when I heard a snap and I started spiralling. The lower right wing had broken off due to the G-forces and speed of my diving turns. Something the wing-and-a-half Nieuports were infamous for - especially in dives. I was this close to shooting this obviously seasoned German down and my aircraft structurally failed.
I paused the game to see who it was I had been dogfighting. Looking at the Tactical display, his aircraft was colored purple. Not the usual red of most enemy pilots. So I turned on the labels option to show pilot names. It was some historical German ace named Rudolf Francke from Jasta 8-C. Wiki says he historically had 15 victories. I know I could've taken him in the game if I had a Camel but the AI flying his aircraft was certainly making it difficult. Difficult enough for me to snap my own wing and win a victory for it.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg845%2F968%2Fq9c5.jpg&hash=5b5d986117b2c43ae75a5024a928cf4ca005273b)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg11%2F2298%2Fgj1y.jpg&hash=429a4a3321ff88fd41f17e80325a100a24533e73)
I spiralled down for a few seconds and he circled once until assured that I was going down. But I managed to pull the Noop's nose up and get it flying somewhat straight, although I couldn't get it to level out and it was still dropping altitude. When I hit the ground it rolled a couple times and flipped over somewhat violently due to my terribly bank angle. The post-mission report says I died soon after from injuries sustained in the crash and the Germans who found me furnished a military funeral.
That was so damn fun. And these Nieuports are pretty unforgiving rides. :)
^That is $%^#ing awesome.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 14, 2013, 12:17:56 PM
Quote from: Gusington on December 14, 2013, 11:55:30 AM
Logitech Extreme eh?
I have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and it's gimbals are crap. The latest version anyway. ALL MADE IN CHINA!
The older Logitech Extremes had better precision (also have an old worn-out one of those). With my newer one, I had to put a good amount of dead zone on it because the left/right axis was so loose and often leaned more towards one side than the other. Maybe I just got one of the poorer examples, but I was never happy with it. She said her name was Lucy but they all called her "Loose". Picked up a relatively inexpensive Thrustmaster T-Flight X HOTAS last year and it made a huge difference just due to how much tighter the stick was.
While the Logitech Extreme sticks are popular for their inexpensiveness and having rudder controls, I would only recommend them if you can't afford a nice tight stick for better control and less settings tweaking (not necessarily a HOTAS). Just make sure you get something with rudder controls either way, as they're essential in these old WWI birds.
As for having problems flying the aircraft in WOFF, I suggest two things to make it easier.
1) Use the Trim controls.. they're in there and you can see their exact settings with your TAC display open and the 'Z' info data block hotkey on. It may not be historical but it'll save you some stick whipping when you're trying to fly straight & level (also use Autopilot often to avoid same).
2) Adjust the axis sensitivity to your liking. I had to lower the Pitch sensitivity on mine, and others have mentioned doing the same. I think the default pitch rate is too high. Just select the pitch axis in the Workshop's (aka Settings menu) ReMap Keys section and click advanced. The value on the left is the sensitivity and the one on the right is dead zone. I ended up dropping both settings on numerous axes but you can tweak those bit by bit to your liking. Just make sure you click SAVE after your changes! After lowering the sensitivity on the pitch, I had an easier time aiming since I didn't oversteer as much in turns.
Be aware that you can and will tear up your wings with high-G pulls and extremely fast dives. As with any sim, it comes down to getting a feel for what you're flying and pushing those limits as best you can.
That's interesting....I was reading reviews in a number of different places and most of them seemed to be favorable, at least for a simplistic and cost effective joystick. I am not a hardcore flight simmer, so I was thinking I could get away with it. But maybe I will have to think about it a bit.
Quote from: Gusington on December 14, 2013, 03:59:38 PM
^That is $%^#ing awesome.
+1....time for you to jump in Gus:)
I don't have the time to dedicate to it if its overly complex...that's really the only reason I have not jumped yet. If it is a sim I feel I can grasp by putting, say, 90 minutes into it at a time, then I will jump. Probably later tonight :)
You may only get 1 or 2 missions in for 90 minutes of play time.
It took me a bit to remap & write down the key commands and do the usual sim tweaking. But it didn't require as much of this tweaking as I did for Rise of Flight. I also tried starting a campaign that included the training mission series start but quickly found that I was fine flying the things and didn't need the long boring training missions. So my future campaign starts have all been sans training (which is default anyway).
After turning on the automatic Fuel Mixture option, it's just been a matter of flying stick, rudder, throttle, and blip switch. About as simple as it can get although each aircraft has it's own handling characteristics so you'll be using plenty of the stick and rudder when not on Autopilot.
To save time I always check the "Start In Flight" box on the mission screen. You have to check it before you start each mission, and it will reassign a new mission, but it will save you a lot of dull time climbing up to 10 to 12 thousand feet. In those old crates, it took awhile. Turn on the TAC display (Shift+T) and keep an eye on it for enemy aircraft approaching nearby while you use Autopilot and Time Compression. As always, be ready to hit the Normal Time key when they show up on your Tac display. You must switch the Autopilot off via the key... moving your joystick doesn't disable it. You must hit Ctrl-Q to bring up the quit mission option. You can do that while still in the air. I suggest you land the aircraft yourself, if you've been damaged, otherwise there's a higher chance you'll be killed if you exit early and the AI botches it. Fortunately you can land at any friendly airfield and you get back to your own in no time when you're damaged.
I wouldn't say that you're gonna be good at WOFF in a short time. I'm still getting shot up plenty after flying about 15 missions in various aircraft. Even getting shot up has been very enjoyable.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 14, 2013, 06:17:22 PM
You may only get 1 or 2 missions in for 90 minutes of play time.
It took me a bit to remap & write down the key commands and do the usual sim tweaking. But it didn't require as much of this tweaking as I did for Rise of Flight. I also tried starting a campaign that included the training mission series start but quickly found that I was fine flying the things and didn't need the long boring training missions. So my future campaign starts have all been sans training (which is default anyway).
After turning on the automatic Fuel Mixture option, it's just been a matter of flying stick, rudder, throttle, and blip switch. About as simple as it can get although each aircraft has it's own handling characteristics so you'll be using plenty of the stick and rudder when not on Autopilot.
To save time I always check the "Start In Flight" box on the mission screen. You have to check it before you start each mission, and it will reassign a new mission, but it will save you a lot of dull time climbing up to 10 to 12 thousand feet. In those old crates, it took awhile. Turn on the TAC display (Shift+T) and keep an eye on it for enemy aircraft approaching nearby while you use Autopilot and Time Compression. As always, be ready to hit the Normal Time key when they show up on your Tac display. You must switch the Autopilot off via the key... moving your joystick doesn't disable it. You must hit Ctrl-Q to bring up the quit mission option. You can do that while still in the air. I suggest you land the aircraft yourself, if you've been damaged, otherwise there's a higher chance you'll be killed if you exit early and the AI botches it. Fortunately you can land at any friendly airfield and you get back to your own in no time when you're damaged.
I wouldn't say that you're gonna be good at WOFF in a short time. I'm still getting shot up plenty after flying about 15 missions in various aircraft. Even getting shot up has been very enjoyable.
Nefaro, about exiting the mission without landing. When you use the CTRL+Q option, do you lose anything by doing that versus landing? Do you have to be over a base at the time you do it as well? Landing is not one of my favorite things to do:)
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 14, 2013, 06:23:23 PM
Nefaro, about exiting the mission without landing. When you use the CTRL+Q option, do you lose anything by doing that versus landing? Do you have to be over a base at the time you do it as well? Landing is not one of my favorite things to do:)
No penalties. You just need to accomplish whatever mission you were set to do. If you are supposed to patrol a certain spot for at least 21 minutes, and you exit beforehand, then the mission isn't considered finished.
I've not exited a mission on the other side of enemy lines yet, so there may be some chance of bad things happening there. I'm not really sure. I do know that if you're hit & damaged that the outcome can be worse if you quit while still in the air. I always land my plane when damaged, fearing that it'll consider my pilot killed if I do not.
Landing in WOFF is pretty easy as long as you avoid hitting any fences or trees and keep it running straight on the way in (which is pretty easy unless you got some serious damage).
Thanks Nefaro....I am dealing with an issue that has taken my attention away from actually playing the game. It seems like my system will not allow the game to be played in anything but 16 bit color mode, versus the full 32 color mode. Whenever it starts, always forces the 16 bit mode. I have been working with support, but no luck so far. They are thinking maybe something with my monitor, but I have an HDTV monitor that supports 1920x1080 mode and would be shocked if it couldn't handle beyond 16 bit color. When I look at the device options for my monitor and video card, it says it is using 32 bit color. Other games I play seem to support it just fine.
So kind of bummed right now that my graphics might be far less than what others are enjoying:( These little things always distract me.
1-2 missions per session is fine. And becoming really good at the game is not necessary, but having fun is.
Quote from: Gusington on December 14, 2013, 10:42:40 PM
1-2 missions per session is fine. And becoming really good at the game is not necessary, but having fun is.
Agree with this.....I'll never be great at flight sims, but I want to be immersed and have fun while I am dying:)
^So are you currently immersed in fun? We seem to be on the same page as far as skill and what we want, so if you're getting it and having fun I will feel more secure in dropping 125.00 on this.
No pressure though :)
What is the DRM or is there any?
It's a mod so the only DRM I could think of is if you are using a CD copy of Combat Flight Simulator 3 which has to be in the drive when you play. If you get a DVD copy you can avoid that.
All this Flander's field talk, make me want to start up a RoF campaign!.. yeah.. I know not as immersive.. but I don't have 60 dollars to share from my FSX fund right now!
Quote from: Tuna on December 15, 2013, 01:42:50 PM
All this Flander's field talk, make me want to start up a RoF campaign!.. yeah.. I know not as immersive.. but I don't have 60 dollars to share from my FSX fund right now!
ROF is a fine game. I have few complaints about it, despite my frothing about some of the excessive nose-up tendencies in all it's aircraft and the resulting issues of trying to adjust for it in the settings.
If it were down to plain 'ole flight modelling, I'd still prefer ROF. I still
want to play ROF. But right now I'm enjoying the war environment of WOFF. It has a hard drive footprint just a bit over 21GB. I'm sure a sizable chunk of it is dedicated to the campaign and the goings-on down below you. They're both immersive sims, just in different ways.
Did you see that the 1.4 patch is out? There's some fixes for various TV issues in there... dunno if yours was one.
Also..
I just downed my first Ace. Flying a Pup in October '17.
Those Albatros DIII/DVs can be tough. I had to put quite a few rounds into this guy even after his engine was obviously damaged. One thing I've noticed about WOFF is that your guns aren't terribly accurate. Despite having some aiming device in most planes, the bullets tend to cone spray a fair bit. Enough to make targeting the enemy pilot a very unsure thing, even up close.
It's a fine inclination to look up the bio of the historic aces you shoot down:
Quote from: wikipediaOskar Freiherr von Boenigk (25 August 1893 – 30 January 1946) was a German Generalmajor, he began his military career during World War I as a fighter ace credited with 26 victories. He survived the war, served in the post-war revolution, and eventually rose to the rank of Generalmajor in the Luftwaffe during World War II.
:D
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg856%2F7835%2Fxw1d.jpg&hash=35cc792d3a21826d3bb611781aa77d18899b913a)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg822%2F3171%2Fw2ah.jpg&hash=cf8cce71a08c8afcfc5becf58fd1efd17e7e810f)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg801%2F232%2Fvx2k.jpg&hash=49bef7612f89f87919427435d46e169f4c294e0f)
Quote from: Nefaro on December 15, 2013, 06:55:12 PM
Did you see that the 1.4 patch is out? There's some fixes for various TV issues in there... dunno if yours was one.
Yep, that was an attempt to fix my issue but did not work for me. Hats off to them for trying.
Quote from: Gusington on December 15, 2013, 12:43:26 PM
^So are you currently immersed in fun? We seem to be on the same page as far as skill and what we want, so if you're getting it and having fun I will feel more secure in dropping 125.00 on this.
No pressure though :)
That's a lot of pressure:) I like the atmosphere but haven't played much in the last 2 days due to other pressing items. I do like what I see, but not sure I would have spent $125 for it:)
$125 for what?! :o
This isn't Steel Beasts Pro! Hahah!
I picked up a CD-ROM set for CFS3 at Amazon for six bucks. ???
Quote from: Nefaro on December 15, 2013, 07:09:07 PM
$125 for what?! :o
This isn't Steel Beasts Pro! Hahah!
I picked up a CD-ROM set for CFS3 at Amazon for six bucks. ???
I think he is adding on buying a flight stick too.
60.00 for game (physical copy) which adds 13.00, new DVD copy (for no disk in the drive) of CFS 3 which adds 10.00, new joystick, for 30.00. OK so 113.00.
It sure looks great - but I'm on the fence until they change the game to run on non-english regional settings (, and . problem in numbers) :(
Gotta point out one negative thing.. it's flight model isn't all that great, especially compared to ROF.
For instance, you can't really perform a hammer turn. Doing a decent loop is a rarity - even with some excess speed from a dive, you often just stall out into a spin. I suppose the fastest aircraft (such as a SPADXIII) may be able to barely pull them off from their max level speed but they're all pretty much at or near stall speed halfway through. At least in ROF, when you get near stall speed in a climb, your rudder is effective in doing the hammer turn and other such stuff. If you get nose-high and near stalling in WOFF, you just kinda float around with almost no control even though you're still doing 50mph.
I'm also not sure about how well the airframes' strength is modelled. I've not tested to see at what speed some aircrafts' wings get ripped off but the game sounds of your screeching aircraft tends to make me think it's lower than it was historically reported to be. For instance Rickenbacker mentioned reaching about 200mph in dives, flying a Nieuport, before the risk of shredding the canvas off the wings. In this one, it sounds as if they're gonna completely rip off at about 160mph in many of them. It doesn't sound like much, but it's a sizable difference in these old planes.
I also had a SPADVII's wing break in a level turn at under 100mph. The SPADs were some pretty sturdy planes for their time. So it feels like the aircraft are structurally weaker than those in ROF, and perhaps their historical counterparts.
So yeah.. the flight model doesn't have the fidelity of other sims IMO. As to which modelling is closer to the real thing.. who knows? The game is still quite immersive, I just have to remind myself to be extra careful of the speed and G-forces I'm putting on the planes in WOFF. It was scary enough, diving at high speed in ROF, but this one makes me feel like I could kill myself at any time I'm maneuvering. If nothing else, it makes for some tense flying.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 16, 2013, 11:33:07 AM
Gotta point out one negative thing.. it's flight model isn't all that great, especially compared to ROF.
For instance, you can't really perform a hammer turn. Doing a decent loop is a rarity - even with some excess speed from a dive, you often just stall out into a spin. I suppose the fastest aircraft (such as a SPADXIII) may be able to barely pull them off from their max level speed but they're all pretty much at or near stall speed halfway through. At least in ROF, when you get near stall speed in a climb, your rudder is effective in doing the hammer turn and other such stuff. If you get nose-high and near stalling in WOFF, you just kinda float around with almost no control even though you're still doing 50mph.
I'm also not sure about how well the airframes' strength is modelled. I've not tested to see at what speed some aircrafts' wings get ripped off but the game sounds of your screeching aircraft tends to make me think it's lower than it was historically reported to be. For instance Rickenbacker mentioned reaching about 200mph in dives, flying a Nieuport, before the risk of shredding the canvas off the wings. In this one, it sounds as if they're gonna completely rip off at about 160mph in many of them. It doesn't sound like much, but it's a sizable difference in these old planes.
I also had a SPADVII's wing break in a level turn at under 100mph. The SPADs were some pretty sturdy planes for their time. So it feels like the aircraft are structurally weaker than those in ROF, and perhaps their historical counterparts.
So yeah.. the flight model doesn't have the fidelity of other sims IMO. As to which modelling is closer to the real thing.. who knows? The game is still quite immersive, I just have to remind myself to be extra careful of the speed and G-forces I'm putting on the planes in WOFF. It was scary enough, diving at high speed in ROF, but this one makes me feel like I could kill myself at any time I'm maneuvering. If nothing else, it makes for some tense flying.
All this talk of WOFF (which sounds like a great game all-in-all) made me re-install RoF. And fly the FE-2b pusher (which in RoF you can only get in what seems to be the 160 HP Beardmore version). For a while the FE-2b seemed absurdly robust and agile (I was used to flying the DCS Su-25T, which is slighly sluggish and tricky and full of fun moments with flame-outs and spins and being shot up by helicopters when taxing and never hitting anything with bombs), but eventually I was back to over-revving the engine, stalling and having damaged wings rip off. Once I'd re-established that the FE-2b was not indestructable,
I noticed you could tell a lot by just listening to the windflow around the aircraft (not really an option in a jet).
My impression in RoF is that in most planes, you'll over-revv the engine long before you rip off your wings UNLESS there is some damage.
I've found it fairly easy to rip my wings off in WOFF just in flat turns at moderate speeds. I thought it would be more difficult to do if you were in a slow turn. Gotta be even more careful in this game than ROF. :o
Quote from: Nefaro on December 16, 2013, 01:13:05 PM
I've found it fairly easy to rip my wings off in WOFF just in flat turns at moderate speeds. I thought it would be more difficult to do if you were in a slow turn. Gotta be even more careful in this game than ROF. :o
That is interesting. I have no idea how these games put in parameters like Wing-root integrity. WWI airplanes do look comically fragile to me, though at the time maybe all those struts and crosswires were more reassuing. Somehow.
Also, I really know next to nothing about real airplanes or flight simulation FMs or AFMs, so let me add some completely irrelevent remarks just to round out the discussion (mostly thanks to the Wiki on the FE-2):
1) the FE-2 flew in combat from 1915 to 1918. Clear to the end of the war...I guess partly because you could stick any kind of weapons or lights or night landing aids you wanted in the forward tub and get good visibility forward. Plus it could carry a fair amount of bombs. Though it ended up in a rather special operational category "tactical light night bomber"....hmmm.
2) Biggles started his flying career in an FE-2
3) I almost got OFF in April 2011. It was my assumed first choice since I didn't think RoF would run on my underpowered gear. I got MSflying things3 and tested it out. It worked so -- just for the hell of it -- I got RoF installed and to my surprise it worked and it looked okay (MSFlying thing3 looked fine as well except for the water -- RoF already had nice water) so I went with RoF.
ROF's aircraft and 'pits look amazing still. Some of the aircraft textures are astonishing. I left a pic in the screenshot thread of a Fokker DVII and it's hex-painted canvas texture looks superb with a slight sunlight reflection. And it runs surprisingly smoothly. I think part of that is due to the ground textures and overall "environment" is more like a bubble around the player so there's not a bunch of stuff being computed happening out of sight.
This same thing is probably the reason for the higher spec requirements of WOFF. The war is being run and it seems to be fairly processor and memory intensive. I just now lowered my Cloud Gfx setting back down to 3 from the 5 (max) I had it. Made a big difference in some of the jittering I'd see when over the lines and seeing all the artillery striking the ground (and various banks of clouds). But all that extra 'stuff' going on is really what makes this game so wonderful. I could continue niggling about the flight model and aircraft structural load points but those are minor in comparison to the general feel of flying during a campaign.
I just had to resort to turning off pilot deaths for my campaign. The Huns kept shooting me down. Sure, maybe I'll score one or two before taking a dirt nap, but it's inevitable. The worst was taking on flights of 2-seaters. Those rear gunners will murderize you if you get greedy on your climb up to attack from underneath and don't dive back down soon enough. I also can't seem to get away from those Albatroses in 1917. Once they get nearby, they always manage to slowly catch up to me and there is usually more than one. Damn good shots too. Brutal fiery deaths! I love it.. but I gotta go with the resurrections in order to get some steady practice in without having to regularly create a new pilot. ;)
Nefaro, why not fly as a German pilot instead?
Quote from: jomni on December 16, 2013, 10:24:03 PM
Nefaro, why not fly as a German pilot instead?
Despite my love of flying the Albatros models and the DVII, I'm really enjoying these British planes right now. I was flying a slow-ass Strutter in 70 squadron and most recently got upgraded to a Sopwith Camel in August 1917. It's a big leap and my mission results have jumped. Love that little aircraft in a dogfight, and the sounds of using the blip switch to slow down. :D I think this squadron gets the Sopwith Snipe, eventually. Never flown one of those in a sim.
There are a lot of different aircraft to fly. I also enjoyed flying the F2a/b "Brisfit" 2-seaters although I tend to wanna get out of 2-seaters after awhile. Fortunately there's a squadron transfer request form you can fill out, but I've not tried it yet - you probably need some victories under your belt for that to be successful and I had only bagged maybe 1 kill in my 2-seater campaigns. Of course, my single-seater tallies have only reached two claims up until this latest campaign in a Camel which has given my five claims in my last 3 missions. Quite a leap in performance having 2 guns in a strong & agile little plane.
I'm in no hurry to try out the German side yet, nor the French or American. I can tell there will
lots of campaign playtime put into this sim. I'll probably fire up a German campaign sometime soon after some straight time spent campaigning on the west side (yo).
Also - I'm not so German-o-centric as some wargamers, who tend to always want to play ze German side most of the time.
I do admit to enjoying play as the Germans when they are available. Are there any Italian, Austrian or Russian planes modeled in WOFF?
Quote from: Cougar_DK on December 16, 2013, 07:49:27 AM
It sure looks great - but I'm on the fence until they change the game to run on non-english regional settings (, and . problem in numbers) :(
Ok, they work fast :)
Quote16 Dec 2013
V1.5 4192e
1) International Users should no longer have to change the OS Number decimal place from a comma to a dot in Regional Settings
2) 'Modal' Error in Details screen when viewing pilot fixed
3) When a pilot dies or is captured his last claims should now be evaluated
4) When a pilot dies or is captured sometimes an invalid music track is selected and results in beeps - fixed
5) When returning from a mission sometimes a black screen was shown (skipped with space, esc)
6) Fixed a skin bug with the DH2 m16 craft.
7) Addressed a possible bug with mission GFlightTime read from outcomes file.
Quote from: Gusington on December 17, 2013, 08:39:39 AM
Are there any Italian, Austrian or Russian planes modeled in WOFF?
Nope. It's the northern part of the West Front.
That's what I thought. Come to think of it, does any sim model Austrian, Italian or Russian WWI planes? I think I have seen a handful in ROF but I am not sure.
Quote from: Gusington on December 17, 2013, 02:23:28 PM
That's what I thought. Come to think of it, does any sim model Austrian, Italian or Russian WWI planes? I think I have seen a handful in ROF but I am not sure.
FS-WWI mod for Screamin' Demons over Europe has a few http://www.fsww1.com/documentation/aircraft.html
Thanks Hentzau...but it doesn't seem to be available any more. From the CD order page:
"Very sorry, but I am no longer offering the FS-WWI package as a mail order."
:/
EDIT - just found this:
http://www.fsww1.com/index.htm
Is all this stuff now downloadable for free??
Quote from: Gusington on December 17, 2013, 08:25:38 PM
Thanks Hentzau...but it doesn't seem to be available any more. From the CD order page:
"Very sorry, but I am no longer offering the FS-WWI package as a mail order."
:/
EDIT - just found this:
http://www.fsww1.com/index.htm
Is all this stuff now downloadable for free??
It always was
Some screenshots for ze German fanboiz:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg594%2F1427%2Fg6pt.jpg&hash=b66b031ded8e99a6c63e6cc20c68c1f4324578e9)
OOPS! Must've been a mistake puttin that in there! Here ya go:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg19%2F9295%2F9lit.jpg&hash=a45eccebf5f9a2bf6fae82018bd7b61d013e5e60)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg801%2F9152%2Fr84s.jpg&hash=e34f381ecb757ff888898e899652b0dbab722619)
I downed a French Ace in a Nieuport 23 on my second mission in a D.III (early) model. Took awhile but finally got him.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 14, 2013, 12:17:56 PM
Quote from: Gusington on December 14, 2013, 11:55:30 AM
Logitech Extreme eh?
I have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and it's gimbals are crap. The latest version anyway. ALL MADE IN CHINA!
The older Logitech Extremes had better precision (also have an old worn-out one of those). With my newer one, I had to put a good amount of dead zone on it because the left/right axis was so loose and often leaned more towards one side than the other. Maybe I just got one of the poorer examples, but I was never happy with it. She said her name was Lucy but they all called her "Loose". Picked up a relatively inexpensive Thrustmaster T-Flight X HOTAS last year and it made a huge difference just due to how much tighter the stick was.
While the Logitech Extreme sticks are popular for their inexpensiveness and having rudder controls, I would only recommend them if you can't afford a nice tight stick for better control and less settings tweaking (not necessarily a HOTAS). Just make sure you get something with rudder controls either way, as they're essential in these old WWI birds.
As for having problems flying the aircraft in WOFF, I suggest two things to make it easier.
1) Use the Trim controls.. they're in there and you can see their exact settings with your TAC display open and the 'Z' info data block hotkey on. It may not be historical but it'll save you some stick whipping when you're trying to fly straight & level (also use Autopilot often to avoid same).
2) Adjust the axis sensitivity to your liking. I had to lower the Pitch sensitivity on mine, and others have mentioned doing the same. I think the default pitch rate is too high. Just select the pitch axis in the Workshop's (aka Settings menu) ReMap Keys section and click advanced. The value on the left is the sensitivity and the one on the right is dead zone. I ended up dropping both settings on numerous axes but you can tweak those bit by bit to your liking. Just make sure you click SAVE after your changes! After lowering the sensitivity on the pitch, I had an easier time aiming since I didn't oversteer as much in turns.
Be aware that you can and will tear up your wings with high-G pulls and extremely fast dives. As with any sim, it comes down to getting a feel for what you're flying and pushing those limits as best you can.
Nefaro just wanted to confirm the thrustmaster stick is a good one...I can pick up for $19 so just want to make sure good for sims.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 18, 2013, 07:58:33 PM
Nefaro just wanted to confirm the thrustmaster stick is a good one...I can pick up for $19 so just want to make sure good for sims.
You can get a Thrustmaster HOTAS for twenty bucks!?!?
I paid $80 for mine!
Someone selling a used one or something?
This is it right?
http://www.microcenter.com/product/353243/TFlight_Hotas_X_Joystick
Quote from: Nefaro on December 17, 2013, 10:35:49 PM
Some screenshots for ze German fanboiz:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg19%2F9295%2F9lit.jpg&hash=a45eccebf5f9a2bf6fae82018bd7b61d013e5e60)
I downed a French Ace in a Nieuport 23 on my second mission in a D.III (early) model. Took awhile but finally got him.
I think the D.IIIs were the best looking planes of the Great War...
I love the look of the British Se-5. Can't fly it worth a damn in RoF since it turns like a pig but it's a beautiful plane
I love the look of the British Se-5. Can't fly it worth a damn in RoF since it turns like a pig but it's a beautiful plane
http://forum.worldofwarplanes.eu/index.php?/topic/453-royal-aircraft-factory-se5/
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 18, 2013, 08:09:58 PM
This is it right?
http://www.microcenter.com/product/353243/TFlight_Hotas_X_Joystick
Yep!
Great price on that. Perhaps Thrustmaster has a new model coming out or something? I'd snatch it up at twenty bucks!
Quote from: Nefaro on December 19, 2013, 07:25:47 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 18, 2013, 08:09:58 PM
This is it right?
http://www.microcenter.com/product/353243/TFlight_Hotas_X_Joystick
Yep!
Great price on that. Perhaps Thrustmaster has a new model coming out or something? I'd snatch it up at twenty bucks!
I figured the same, made the purchase and will be picking it up today. Not too often you find a $20 joystick, especially one a lot of people seem to feel is good for an starter person like myself. Not sure how they can be so low, everywhere else I looked the price seemed to be the lowest around $50.
Quote from: steve58 on December 18, 2013, 08:37:43 PM
I think the D.IIIs were the best looking planes of the Great War...
Their wings are beautiful. I'm not such a big fan of their fish-shaped fuselage but that can be overlooked since it's rather unusual. Certainly some good-looking planes overall. The D.VII is also gorgeous, along with a couple Brit planes ( I like generally like their wings too).
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 19, 2013, 07:30:12 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 19, 2013, 07:25:47 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 18, 2013, 08:09:58 PM
This is it right?
http://www.microcenter.com/product/353243/TFlight_Hotas_X_Joystick
Yep!
Great price on that. Perhaps Thrustmaster has a new model coming out or something? I'd snatch it up at twenty bucks!
I figured the same, made the purchase and will be picking it up today. Not too often you find a $20 joystick, especially one a lot of people seem to feel is good for an starter person like myself. Not sure how they can be so low, everywhere else I looked the price seemed to be the lowest around $50.
In my experience, the price drops quite a bit when the manufacturer stops making it in favor of a newer model to take it's place.
I recall buying a Saitek X45 years ago for about 20% of it's regular retail price just because the X52 had just started arriving. Maybe that's what is happening here.. clearing the stock.
Hmm maybe I'll get one of those too, at that price...if there are any left. Is it a big bulky stick?
As far as plane aesthetics I have always been partial to Spads and the occasional Pfalz.
I agree.. Great price on a great stick!.. I should grab one, for when my current one eventually dies!
Just got back from store, they still had about 20 left.
For 19.99 I would be silly not to order one, even if it looks kinda huge. And of course that's what she said. Looking to finally purchase WOFF after Christmas.
Quote from: Gusington on December 19, 2013, 01:30:59 PM
For 19.99 I would be silly not to order one, even if it looks kinda huge. And of course that's what she said. Looking to finally purchase WOFF after Christmas.
Although not a ton of time with it yet, initially feels better than my x52....seems tighter and easier to control. It is larger, but you can separate the throttle and the stick, although still connected by cord. For $19, I think there will be no regrets from me, maybe it will make me a better pilot:)
The throttle is detachable from the stick too, right? That will save space.
Quote from: Gusington on December 19, 2013, 08:47:04 PM
The throttle is detachable from the stick too, right? That will save space.
They come by default as detached, but they are still connected by a cord...don't readily see away to remove the cord connection. I think the detachment is just so that you can place the throttle and stick in a position of your liking if you don't want them right next to each other.
Hmm, weird. For 19.99 I am still willing to overlook weirdness like that.
I'm in a bit of a gaming funk right now too as nothing is really doing it for me. That makes it more tempting to drop some money on WOFF to try to get out of the funk. But I would owe it to myself to really try to get into it. It's hard to tell so far how hard it is to get into for the non-hardcore.
I have that stick. Detached is when you want to place on a table. Yes, a cord runs between the two units but it really is not awkward.
Then you combine both units, that configuration is when you want to put the HOTAS on your lap. That stick is also PS3 compatible, and that is the reason why it has the lap configuration.
I was surprised how tight the gimbals were on mine, when I first got it. For a budget HOTAS, I didn't have terribly high expectations so it was a pleasant surprise. I don't need to put any dead zone on most axes except perhaps a bit on the twist rudder. But for the rudder I try to use the big rocker switch on the far side of the throttle for big rudder movements (mapping both of them separately if the sim allows).
If it had a second hat switch on the throttle, it would be the perfect budget HOTAS. Hell, for $20 you guys are getting quite a steal. I'm shocked it's priced so low.
As for the two-piece thing, I keep mine split a short distance away, with my keyboard on the other side. Makes it easier to reach between and punch a key or two when needed. I originally placed the stick and rudder on opposite sides of the keyboard but felt it was too far apart for my tastes. I don't need to punch many keyboard buttons with these WWI flight sims anyway, after mapping my most used stuff to the HOTAS buttons.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 20, 2013, 04:08:36 AM
But for the rudder I try to use the big rocker switch on the far side of the throttle for big rudder movements (mapping both of them separately if the sim allows).
Same here. I use the rocker for rudder and lock the stick twist. :)
And it's quite durable as I have been using it for several years already.
The real downside as Nefaro said it that there aren't many buttons if you try to use this for DCS.
But it's good enough for Strike Fighters, WWI sims, WWII sims, and FSX.
Quote from: jomni on December 20, 2013, 07:15:09 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 20, 2013, 04:08:36 AM
But for the rudder I try to use the big rocker switch on the far side of the throttle for big rudder movements (mapping both of them separately if the sim allows).
Same here. I use the rocker for rudder and lock the stick twist. :)
And it's quite durable as I have been using it for several years already.
The real downside as Nefaro said it that there aren't many buttons if you try to use this for DCS.
But it's good enough for Strike Fighters, WWI sims, WWII sims, and FSX.
For DCS I just use the left shift and ctrl to increase the options for the buttons on the stick..
That way the Hat can do three functions and all the buttons as well..
Can't do this for FSX, because FSX won't let you combine keyboard and the stick.. But DCS does!
I nice brief review/overview for those on the fence.....
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/12/20/wot-i-think-wings-over-flanders-fields/
^I was just about to post that. The RPS video clip is good too. Wondering what you guys think as far as agreeing with the author of that review...
I am not as hard core as others so hard for me to notice some of those things....still have only dipped my toe in the water so far, but what I can say....
- Excellent customer support, helped me through issues over a Saturday
- Patches/updates almost being released daily, future support seems strong with these group
- You get a lot of content with the game for $60....55 planes.
- It may not have all the eye candy as ROF, but it is far from ugly either...my graphic card is not the best, so likely can't maximize it yet
- I like the quick missions you can setup by just selecting a bunch of options, seems really easy
- Campaign looks good, although haven't gotten far yet...seems really immersive...battlefield seems alive below you
- From all accounts game provides a good challenge, hard for me to confirm since any newbie can shoot me down:)
Some minor quibbles for me....
- Documentation seems a little scarce right now, but seems they are adding content as they go
- Although I like that training is involved, it seems for the first few, you just sit in the seat next to someone and fly around...much prefer it to be hands on right away
As to whether it is worth $60 to someone (plus adding on CFS for $10 and a joystick), I think each person will need to decide that. If you like WW1 flying and looking for something different than ROF, seems like a no brainer. I bought it more for the long term, versus short term and can only believe it will get better as they provide more updates. No regrets for me so far and I think I will get my money out of it eventually.
I am an owner of ROF too, but haven't reinstalled it since I replaced my computer earlier this year....for giggles, tonight I am going to reload ROF and see how all the improvements they have made compare to WOFF. Biggest turn off for me on ROF was it was very hard for me to fly and kill stuff and every plane/add-on costs you money. Also back then the campaign was very dry.
I just bought WOFF and the stick you posted above. Last thing left to get is the new copy of CFS3. It was all the talk of the immersive campaign that sent me over the top.
The WWI time period is my favorite, and there are tons of books on the era. I have to work a little harder to get games to go along with the books.
I'm caving, too, Gus. I crave an immersive campaign that RoF can't deliver. I already have M$CFS3, so I'll be joining you all shortly.
Quote from: Tuna on December 20, 2013, 08:07:18 AM
Quote from: jomni on December 20, 2013, 07:15:09 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 20, 2013, 04:08:36 AM
But for the rudder I try to use the big rocker switch on the far side of the throttle for big rudder movements (mapping both of them separately if the sim allows).
Same here. I use the rocker for rudder and lock the stick twist. :)
And it's quite durable as I have been using it for several years already.
The real downside as Nefaro said it that there aren't many buttons if you try to use this for DCS.
But it's good enough for Strike Fighters, WWI sims, WWII sims, and FSX.
For DCS I just use the left shift and ctrl to increase the options for the buttons on the stick..
That way the Hat can do three functions and all the buttons as well..
Can't do this for FSX, because FSX won't let you combine keyboard and the stick.. But DCS does!
I set three of the joystick buttons as "modifiers" to be used in combination with other buttons. The two on the far side of the throttle and the weird #3 button on the other side of the joystick work well. That way I can have the equivalent of four hat switches, and four sets for the other nine buttons. Just gotta write down a lot of 2-button combos.
For the regular DCS sims, like Flaming Cliffs 3, I may only need one or two modifier buttons and even those don't use a full combo set as much can still be left on the keyboard for those.
It's just the right amount for the WWI and Third Wire sims.
I've put way more time into the WWI and ThirdWire sims, probably due to their campaigns. I'd say everything is a go, as the only headache was with setting all the crap for A-10C which I haven't really got into anyway. I'd rather play Black Shark 2 or FC3 than that one, TBH.
Cool, Slick. I am waiting for my physical copy to arrive because downloading will take forever on my Man Tomb's wonky internet connection. It may take a while for the other WOFF pieces to arrive in the mail too (stick, CFS3 DVD).
Welcome aboard guys.....
Thanks...was it you who left this leather cap, scarf and goggles in my computer chair?
Must... continue... campaign. Get.. rid.. of ... family....
So I still have both a Brit campaign in a Sopwith Camel and the German campaign currently in an Albatros D.III (early) to choose from. And it's difficult to choose which! Hell.. I'm even tempted to start a French or American campaign in a SPAD too.
I think part of the reason I was dying so quickly with new pilots was that I hadn't got a feel for how to handle the specific aircraft they had. I'm definitely noting the different ways to best go about even basic maneuvers between different models.
When I went from flying Camels to flying an Albatros, I kept wing-stalling the poor Albie when I started my turns. At first I was thinking, "damn this thing sucks!" but came to realize that I was applying too much rudder while transitioning into the banking turn (as often needed to turn a Camel quickly) and had to adjust the mix of inputs to get better results. That's pretty cool. ROF has the same differences but it wasn't as pronounced in some aircraft (like the Albatros) which just made them easier to handle overall. Not quite so easy in WOFF's case.
While some degree of rudder helps your banking turns in all planes in WOFF, the amount to use (and when to use it most) definitely takes some familiarization for each type. That Albatros does better with mostly roll & pull to turn quick while many of the rotaries (like the Camel) tend to require a good deal of rudder, like a coordinated turn in which you're also pulling Gs.
Point of the story.. make sure you get used to how best to turn your new aircraft type while out on your first mission(s). Find out how to best turn the thing without wing stalling and going into a spin. It'll come in handy very soon! I was making the mistake of thinking that I could handle each aircraft somewhat similarly in a dogfight and that's not really the case. Therefore I was screwing up and going into spins more often than I'd like, or performing poor inefficient turns because I hadn't practiced with that type beforehand.
Go for the Spad! Right now I am living vicariously through the guys who have the game while I wait for mine to be physically delivered.
So go for the Spad :)
Quote from: Gusington on December 21, 2013, 10:52:30 AM
Go for the Spad! Right now I am living vicariously through the guys who have the game while I wait for mine to be physically delivered.
So go for the Spad :)
You can always do the download while you wait, they did say the DVD orders would be slow through the holidays:( I have just old DSL which takes me longer to download stuff than other people, this game probably took about 4 hours or so......set it to download before you go to bed and she'll be ready for you in the morning:)
^I can't DL on my wonky Man Tomb temporary wireless internet connection...that's why I have to wait. I also have to wait for CFS3 to be delivered as well as the stick. So...right now I have nothing.
GO FOR THE SPAD
Quote from: Gusington on December 21, 2013, 11:02:50 AM
^I can't DL on my wonky Man Tomb temporary wireless internet connection...that's why I have to wait. I also have to wait for CFS3 to be delivered as well as the stick. So...right now I have nothing.
GO FOR THE SPAD
Ah yeah, forgot about the CFS3 need.....hopefully you got the DVD version, real easy to use. During the install, just asked for the DVD for about 5 secs and then ejected it. After that, haven't needed the DVD since. Very painless compared to the CD version. Worth the extra few dollars.
Yeah got the DVD from Ubisoft. At Amazon there are about 5 left if anyone else is interested.
So after initial install you can run disk-less, right?
Quote from: Gusington on December 21, 2013, 11:08:38 AM
Yeah got the DVD from Ubisoft. At Amazon there are about 5 left if anyone else is interested.
So after initial install you can run disk-less, right?
Yep, no need for the DVD after that...I haven't had it near my computer since the original install. It's a shame they just can't work out a deal with whoever owns the CFS rights nowadays to include it just as part of the WOFF install.
I haven't noticed it checking my CFS3 CD in the tray, when it starts. Hrmm...
Maybe my drive is just quiet. But it certainly doesn't seem to take any time starting the game up. Remember how those disk checks used to take a couple seconds for the drive to spin up? Not seeing that.
Ohhh.. wait. I installed CFS3 on my hard drive. Maybe it doesn't need to check the CDs if that's the case. ???
Since all the ROF stuff is on sale at Steam for half-off, I almost added another DLC pack to my repertoire. I realized that I have no intention of flying in ROF for awhile now that I'm stuck in WOFF so why spend the money right now? :)
Quote from: Nefaro on December 21, 2013, 11:35:56 AM
I haven't noticed it checking my CFS3 CD in the tray, when it starts. Hrmm...
Maybe my drive is just quiet. But it certainly doesn't seem to take any time starting the game up. Remember how those disk checks used to take a couple seconds for the drive to spin up? Not seeing that.
Ohhh.. wait. I installed CFS3 on my hard drive. Maybe it doesn't need to check the CDs if that's the case. ???
Since all the ROF stuff is on sale at Steam for half-off, I almost added another DLC pack to my repertoire. I realized that I have no intention of flying in ROF for awhile now that I'm stuck in WOFF so why spend the money right now? :)
I was under the impression at least in the old version the CD was required in the drive if you had the CD version installed. But maybe with WOFF they changed that, if so that is great.
I actually installed ROF last night and fired it up. Strangely, tried a mission and shut it down right away....thinking maybe I am a little too much invested into WOFF right now:)
Looks like the first DLC/Add-ons available today....
Music - $14.99
Plane Skins - $24.99
http://www.overflandersfields.com/BuyNow.html
I'll likely support them with these additional purchases at some point, but likely will hold off a bit....if they were a tad bit cheaper, would jump in right away.
I'd like to pick up the skin pack eventually, but don't really need it at the moment.
Would be nice to have as many specific skins for all the game's specific Aces flying about you. I believe the stock game comes with some of the more notable ones.
I guess the question I'm wrestling with is whether I really need to buy this, or if I can squeeze some more life out of my original OFF with HitR. I mean, are they really substantially different? $60 different enough? Actually like $85 with the skin pack?
That's a lot of money for essentially the same game...unless it isn't essentially the same game... :o
I tried running just CFS3 on my system the other day and it demanded the CD, which is packed away somewhere/lost. So...had to get the DVD.
Quote from: Toonces on December 21, 2013, 03:03:10 PM
I guess the question I'm wrestling with is whether I really need to buy this, or if I can squeeze some more life out of my original OFF with HitR. I mean, are they really substantially different? $60 different enough? Actually like $85 with the skin pack?
That's a lot of money for essentially the same game...unless it isn't essentially the same game... :o
Another review and with a couple of links to places that discuss improvements.
http://www.simhq.com/air-combat/wings-flanders-fields.html
Good review, if a tad brief.
Quote from: Toonces on December 21, 2013, 03:03:10 PM
I guess the question I'm wrestling with is whether I really need to buy this, or if I can squeeze some more life out of my original OFF with HitR. I mean, are they really substantially different? $60 different enough? Actually like $85 with the skin pack?
That's a lot of money for essentially the same game...unless it isn't essentially the same game... :o
From what I understand, from people who also owned OFF, WOFF is a big improvement in all areas.
They also completely redid the AI and I believe the flight modelling too. There may be more, I dunno. It's obviously better than OFF in all ways and not just an update. The question should be.. are you willing to spend $60 to play it right now, or can it wait for when you can't wait any longer? :D
There is also a review at RPS:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/12/20/wot-i-think-wings-over-flanders-fields/
Can you fly Handley-Page and Gotha or Staaken bombers?
Quote from: Staggerwing on December 21, 2013, 05:21:50 PM
Can you fly Handley-Page and Gotha or Staaken bombers?
List of all aircraft
http://wingsoverflandersfields.com/Features_AC.html
Thanks. Looks like there are no antique BUFFs. :(
Quote from: Staggerwing on December 21, 2013, 05:35:39 PM
Thanks. Looks like there are no antique BUFFs. :(
Found this...looks like gotha coming in a future addon pack
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3870936/Wondering_about_the_Gotha#Post3870936
Whew!
To each his own. I would never fly one of those huge lumbering hulks. Hell, I only occasionally fly 2-seaters.
Not that I don't think they're cool.. just that I enjoy dogfighting and most notably the strategy and tactics related to it, in all eras. I do enjoy some ground attack in some modern era sims but that's probably more due to the varied weapon systems and the strategy behind their employment.
I may not be supertastic-wonderful at such tactics but they hold much of my interest when it comes to flight sims. Also.. if History Chanel could produce a steady stream of new 'Dogfights' shows, I'd have them all permanently saved on DVR. Etc. ;D
Might be reconsidering my stance on the add-on aircraft skins and actually getting them....over 4500 come with the add-on and then combine with the number you get with the game, that is over 6000 skins....found out today these skins get applied to all the squadrons and aces in the game automatically so that is pretty cool to see a bunch of unique aircraft out there....just further adds to the immersion.
I would attempt to fly a Gotha or Handley Paige, but I sure would like to attempt a mission to shoot one down.
I'm installed and ready to configure my HOTAS(CH Pro Throttle, CH Fighterstick, Saitek Pro Combat pedals, Track IR5).
So far, I'm impressed with the user interface. Things are clearly labelled and easy to change. We'll see how I feel about that after I program my hardware.
Two things about WOFF that convinced me to bite:
1) The AI. If it's true that the AI enemy pilots will range from suicidal behavior to knowing when to call it a day and run for home, that alone will be huge. I'm very much looking forward to facing an unpredictable foe.
2) Random mechanical failures. This is something I've been clamoring for, as an option, for years! These crates were not reliable in general, and it was fairly common for mechanical problems to crop up from time to time, turning a promising mission into a desperate glide home to a safe landing behind friendly lines.
Regarding the question of whether WOFF needs access to the CD-ROM of M$CFS3 when it boots up... it depends. If you did a full install of M$CFS3, you have the option of pointing WOFF to the directory where M$CFS3 is installed, or you may choose to have it access the CD-ROM in the drive. There is a screen in the install wizard of WOFF where you may make this choice.
Wifey is off to a friend's house today, so it's just me, the boy & the dogs at home. It's going to be a big gaming day at my house!
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 22, 2013, 09:45:43 AM
I'm installed and ready to configure my HOTAS(CH Pro Throttle, CH Fighterstick, Saitek Pro Combat pedals, Track IR5).
So far, I'm impressed with the user interface. Things are clearly labelled and easy to change. We'll see how I feel about that after I program my hardware.
Two things about WOFF that convinced me to bite:
1) The AI. If it's true that the AI enemy pilots will range from suicidal behavior to knowing when to call it a day and run for home, that alone will be huge. I'm very much looking forward to facing an unpredictable foe.
2) Random mechanical failures. This is something I've been clamoring for, as an option, for years! These crates were not reliable in general, and it was fairly common for mechanical problems to crop up from time to time, turning a promising mission into a desperate glide home to a safe landing behind friendly lines.
Regarding the question of whether WOFF needs access to the CD-ROM of M$CFS3 when it boots up... it depends. If you did a full install of M$CFS3, you have the option of pointing WOFF to the directory where M$CFS3 is installed, or you may choose to have it access the CD-ROM in the drive. There is a screen in the install wizard of WOFF where you may make this choice.
Wifey is off to a friend's house today, so it's just me, the boy & the dogs at home. It's going to be a big gaming day at my house!
Look forward to your impressions....I do like the fact you have the random failures, plus in order to claim a kill you have to go through a review process, pretty nice touch. However, those are optional and for now I have turned them off until I get a better feel for the game:) I am having a hard enough time staying alive as it is right now. The environment/feeling is top notch and really enjoying that part. Now I just have to actually get better at flying and tactics.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 22, 2013, 09:50:29 AM
Now I just have to actually get better at flying and tactics.
Well Grim, WOFF has some great options that you can use to help you stay alive while you learn the ropes. You may want to consider making your guns more powerful, or if that's not enough to keep you from dying so much, you could go with "Pilot never dies".
Learning to fight is mostly knowing the strengths & weaknesses of your aircraft versus the same for whichever plane your adversary is flying. An example of this would be you flying a Sopwith Camel against an enemy pilot in a Pfalz D.IIIa.
The Camel can turn on a dime, but to the right only(due to the torque of its rotary engine). The Pfalz is not a great turn fighter, and would be best using boom & zoom tactics. Therefore, it would behoove you to try to sucker the Pfalz pilot into a turning fight to the right. You will win that fight every time. :)
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 22, 2013, 10:02:37 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 22, 2013, 09:50:29 AM
Now I just have to actually get better at flying and tactics.
Well Grim, WOFF has some great options that you can use to help you stay alive while you learn the ropes. You may want to consider making your guns more powerful, or if that's not enough to keep you from dying so much, you could go with "Pilot never dies".
Learning to fight is mostly knowing the strengths & weaknesses of your aircraft versus the same for whichever plane your adversary is flying. An example of this would be you flying a Sopwith Camel against an enemy pilot in a Pfalz D.IIIa.
The Camel can turn on a dime, but to the right only(due to the torque of its rotary engine). The Pfalz is not a great turn fighter, and would be best using boom & zoom tactics. Therefore, it would behoove you to try to sucker the Pfalz pilot into a turning fight to the right. You will win that fight every time. :)
Thanks Slick....that is awesome if it takes all that into consideration, but boy am I in trouble then since I know very little about WW1 planes and their strengths and weaknesses as you outlined them. I would have never known what you stated just with those two planes alone. Guess I might have some reading to do.
I have most of the newbie settings turned on, I am not afraid to admit that:) I haven't really figured out how to master shooting at other planes yet...try to use the sights of the given plane and always seems like the bullets don't go there.....I am sure it will just take practice.
It sounds like you need to practice something called "deflection shooting", also known as "leading the enemy".
Unless you are absolutely dead center behind an enemy plane, you need to place the nose of your plane(and thus your iron sights) slightly ahead of the enemy plane, in the direction he is flying. You shoot at the air in front of the enemy plane, and it flies into your stream of bullets. If you are both in a right hand turn and you shoot at the enemy's cockpit, your bullets will most likely pass behind the plane.
The tricky part is judging how far out in front of the plane to shoot at. That part takes practice, and experience.
Yes, by all means, it's time to read up on the fighters of WWI. There are basically two types of fighter planes in WWI, turn fighters and boom & zoomers.
Boom & zoomers, like the Pfalz D.IIIa, rely on speed to "Boom" down and fire, then "Zoom" climb back up to a higher altitude than their intended victim.
Conversely, most turn fighters, like the Sopwith Camel and Fokker DR1, rely on their maneuverability to score kills. Most turn fighters are not as fast as most Boom & Zoom fighters, hence the use of different tactics.
And then there are fighters that could do it all, like the Fokker DVII. That aircraft was so good at everything that the Allies demanded that the Germans turn over every Fokker DVII to the Allies at the end of the war.
Start reading, my friend. :)
The game has a nice write up on each plane, although it falls short in describing it's strengths and weaknesses......do you recommend any single book that has all the WW1 aircraft for all the nations and for each one does a good job in specifically describing the strengths and weaknesses?
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 22, 2013, 10:31:01 AM
The game has a nice write up on each plane, although it falls short in describing it's strengths and weaknesses......do you recommend any single book that has all the WW1 aircraft for all the nations and for each one does a good job in specifically describing the strengths and weaknesses?
For a detailed analysis, this site is pretty good. It's provides charts & graphs, but is not extremely technical. http://home.comcast.net/~clipper-108/AIAAPaper2005-119.pdf
In general, I can list the major planes of each era. In WWI each side enjoyed periods of air superiority as new and better machines were produced.
The Fokker Eindecker E.I to E.III reigned supreme during August 1915-June 1916. It was the first airplane equipped with a synchronizing gear, allowing it's machine gun to fire between the propeller blades. This was a huge advantage. This period was known as the "Fokker Scourge", as the Allies had nothing comparable until 1916. While the Eindecker was nothing special in the maneuverability or speed dept, the synchronizing gear allowed it to dominate.
By summer of 1916 the British introduced aircraft like the Airco DH-2 and the Sopwith Pup, both of which were turn fighters. The French introduced the Nieuport 11, also a turn fighter. These three aircraft help end the Fokker Scourge and introducing a period of Allied air supremacy. The Pup was highly maneuverable, but was underpowered. Likewise, the Nieuport 11 was nimble, but suffered from a weak lower wing, which had an alarming tendency to break off in a steep dive!
During this time, the Germans introduced the Halberstadt D.II, which was an improvement over the Eindecker, but was still out-classed by the Allied machines listed above.
By the fall of 1916, the Germans rebounded with the Albatros D.II. The Albatross was fast, maneuverable and was armed with two Spandau machine guns. Meanwhile, the French introduced the SPAD S.VII and the Nieuport 17. The SPAD was very fast for its day, but was not very maneuverable. It was the first Allied "Boom & Zoom" fighter. Conversely, the Nieuport 17 was an improved turn fighter based on the Nieuport 11. Like the 11, pilots learned not to push the 17 too hard in a dive, lest the lower wing depart.
In late 1916, the Sopwith Triplane was introduced for use by the Royal Naval Air Service. It was immediately successful, with good maneuverability. Poor bracing, however, limited the steepness of its dive, and it was equipped with but a single Vickers machine gun. Still, until the advent of the better aircraft like the SE5a and Sopwith Camel, it was an excellent aircraft for its time.
With the introduction of the Albatros D.III in late 1916-early 1917, the tables once again swung back to the Germans. This aircraft was the one with which Manfred von Richtofen scored the majority of his kills. With most of the Allied fighters from the early 1916 becoming obsolete, the Germans had a field day in April 1917, known as "Bloody April" due to the large losses suffered at the hands of the Albatros D.III.
An improved version of the D.II, it was a capable fighter and the Allies had nothing comparable with the exception of the Sopwith Triplane, which were in too small of numbers to overcome the Albatros' domination.
Moving ahead to early summer of 1917, the Allies finally wrestled air superiority back from the Germans with the introduction of two aircraft: The Sopwith Camel and the Royal Aircraft Factory SE5a. The Sopwith Camel was powerful and nimble, but also inherently unstable. Until fledgling pilots learned its quirks, it killed almost as many pilots in accidents as were killed in battle. This instability was also one of its key strengths, allowing pilots to the strong torque of the engine to provide almost instantaneous turns to the right. The Camel was also the first Allied fighter plane equipped with twin synchronized Vickers machine guns mounted in front of the pilot.
The SE5a was the first effective British "Boom & Zoom" fighter, with the fastest top speed of any fighter airplane of either side until late 1918. The SE5a was not a great turn fighter, but could climb and dive its way out of trouble with virtual impunity. It was also a stable gun platform, mounting one Vickers machine gun on the cowl and a single Lewis gun in a swivel mount on the top wing.
Arriving on the scene in the summer of 1917 as an answer to the SE5a and Sopwith Camel, were the Albatros D.Va and the Pfalz D.III. The Albatros D.Va was a minimal upgrade of the D.III, and was considered by many pilots to actually be inferior to the D.III. Consequently, the D.Va would have a rough time fighting against the likes of the SE5a and Sopwith Camel.
The Pfalz D.III was strong and fast, but not as maneuverable as the Albatros D.III. It was a capable "Boom & Zoom" fighter.
Arriving in late 1917, two very effective planes arrived in increasingly large numbers. The French SPAD S.XIII and the German Fokker DR.1.
The SPAD S.XIII was a beast. Very fast, sturdy and great in a dive. It was not a turn fighter per se, but could turn relatively well when it had to. It was primarily a B & Z fighter, however. It's twin Vickers machine guns made it more than a match for all German fighters of early 1918. It was considered to be the best French fighter of the war.
The legendary Fokker DR.1 Triplane had similar performance to the Sopwith Camel, and could turn on a dime. It was slow, however, and you could not easily run away from a fight. It's most famous exponent was the Red Baron, of course. Von Richtofen would die at the controls of his DR.1, victim of an Australian machine gun company on the ground.
Mid 1918 saw the introduction of arguably the best fighter plane of the war, the Fokker D. VII. This plane could do it all. It was easy to fly, relatively fast, and could turn well. Pilots could fight in the D.VII in many different ways.
In mid 1918, the British replied with the Sopwith Dolphin, a fast, maneuverable plane that was popular with its pilots. It was not the match of the Fokker D.VII, but was a welcome addition to the Allied stable of fighters as the Camel and SE5a aged.
The Germans introduced the Pfalz D.XII in the summer of 1918. While it was an improvement over the Pfalz D.III and Albatros D.Va, it was considered to be a "Poor Man's Fokker D.VII" and was mostly relegated to quieter sectors of the front.
Late in the war, the Sopwith Snipe - an improved Camel - was introduced to popular acclaim. While not a fast aircraft compared to the SE5a or SPAD S.XIII, it was nevertheless a powerful climber and could turn effectively. The Snipe was a match for the Fokker D.VII when in capable hands.
Hope that helps, Grim. I left out many other less well-known aircraft, but I'm getting anxious to get flying, so you'll have to read about them yourself. ;D
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 22, 2013, 10:08:34 AM
I haven't really figured out how to master shooting at other planes yet...try to use the sights of the given plane and always seems like the bullets don't go there.....I am sure it will just take practice.
I've noticed a fair bit of 'play' in the gun accuracy in WOFF. Sometimes, after firing the initial burst or two, it will start consistently firing a bit off to one side. I wasn't sure if it was intentional and posted a report in the tech issues forum. I believe there is supposed to be a cone of fire, of sorts, and the dev said to check it out over a period of time and see if it sticks too consistently to one side. It may be an overly eager wind issue, gun mounting quirks, or just right. Or even some side effect of having different widescreen ratios. I dunno.
So you'll have to watch where your tracer fire is going and adjust as needed. It may only end up shooting a degree off in one direction, but it can be enough to be noticeable. Often I don't even use the sights and just move my tracers where I want them.
Wow slick, thank you so much for all the detail....now go enjoy the game yourself.
I had no idea Slick was a WWI aviation guru! On my lap here I have a book I bought from Amazon last year that is an update to a pocket guide I had as a kid. It's called The Essential Aircraft Identification Guide: Aircraft of World War I. It's a nice hardbound guide with a narrative on the evolution of air combat and planes from 1914 to 1918, with great color profile drawings of probably every plane involved on every front of the war. It was a bit pricey (about 25.00) but it can come in useful for research in WOFF. I know I am going to be using it when Slick is not around :)
Quote from: Gusington on December 22, 2013, 02:27:28 PM
I had no idea Slick was a WWI aviation guru!
I not an expert on each plane, but I've flown every WWI sim known to man. My all-time favorite computer game is the original Red Baron, from 1990. I had brown hair back then, lol.
I'm also a complete WWI history nut, so I know more about WWI than any other war.
Anyway, I've put in about two hours into WOFF, mainly quick combat fights. Something feels off with the aileron controls in the planes I've flown so far(Eindecker, Halberstadt D.II and the Albatros D.II).
I expected the Eindecker to fly like a pig - which it does - because of not having ailerons, instead using wing warping. But the two other planes do not have smooth aileron function. I'm not sure if the problem is with the game or maybe I am supposed to calibrate them inside the game somewhere.
I tried doing a fast scenario flying in a squadron of Eindeckers vs. a squadron of DH-2's. Wow, did we get pwned in a hurry!
Gunnery is suitably difficult, barely being able to see where my rounds are going. You really have to get in close to make good hits. Just be careful to break away before collision!
As SW says at the end there, one of the keys to knocking down targets (IMO) is to get very close before you start lighting the guy up. These guns weren't accurate enough and didn't have the hitting power to go knocking down aircraft at 500 yards like .50 cals. Try to get really close, like 50 yards or less, and when you are getting hits just hold the trigger down.
Quote from: Toonces on December 22, 2013, 03:25:55 PM
Try to get really close, like 50 yards or less, and when you are getting hits just hold the trigger down.
Just don't hold the trigger too long, otherwise they might jam. It's best to use short bursts of 2-3 seconds then stop, then repeat.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 22, 2013, 02:50:47 PM
Anyway, I've put in about two hours into WOFF, mainly quick combat fights. Something feels off with the aileron controls in the planes I've flown so far(Eindecker, Halberstadt D.II and the Albatros D.II).
As a reminder -
I had to raise the aileron sensitivity a good bit in the settings. It was slow & sluggish for me too but that made a difference. Also, the pitch was
too sensitive, so I lowered that.
Also there is some dead zone on by default on all axes and my stick is tight enough to not need any at all (except maybe a tad in the twist rudder) so I also lowered those to just above zero for all of them.
There was some joystick axis sensitivity tweaking to do, certainly.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 22, 2013, 04:42:28 PM
Quote from: Toonces on December 22, 2013, 03:25:55 PM
Try to get really close, like 50 yards or less, and when you are getting hits just hold the trigger down.
Just don't hold the trigger too long, otherwise they might jam. It's best to use short bursts of 2-3 seconds then stop, then repeat.
The gun jamming isn't near as bad as portrayed in ROF. Although each attempt to un-jam them may not be successful.
I recall having one of my two jams taking a long time to get fixed. I was back, flying over my base, by the time I got it unjammed. You can hear your pilot cursing and banging on it in the game! ;D
But my point is that you can generally fire longer bursts without so many jams in WOFF. Seems like I'd get a jam every two seconds in ROF. ??? Not so, here. Still.. I usually only do the 2-3 seconds as mentioned just out of long-held habit from sims and first-person shooters.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 22, 2013, 05:34:47 PM
I had to raise the aileron sensitivity a good bit in the settings. It was slow & sluggish for me too but that made a difference. Also, the pitch was too sensitive, so I lowered that.
Also there is some dead zone on by default on all axes and my stick is tight enough to not need any at all (except maybe a tad in the twist rudder) so I also lowered those to just above zero for all of them.
There was some joystick axis sensitivity tweaking to do, certainly.
Thanks, Nefaro, that helped a bunch. I also noticed that the X-axis trim on my Fighterstick was too far over to the right. I think I've got it sorted out now.
Man, does that Eindecker pop into a flat spin instantly if you're not careful!
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 22, 2013, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 22, 2013, 10:31:01 AM
The game has a nice write up on each plane, although it falls short in describing it's strengths and weaknesses......do you recommend any single book that has all the WW1 aircraft for all the nations and for each one does a good job in specifically describing the strengths and weaknesses?
For a detailed analysis, this site is pretty good. It's provides charts & graphs, but is not extremely technical. http://home.comcast.net/~clipper-108/AIAAPaper2005-119.pdf
In general, I can list the major planes of each era. In WWI each side enjoyed periods of air superiority as new and better machines were produced.
The Fokker Eindecker E.I to E.III reigned supreme during August 1915-June 1916. It was the first airplane equipped with a synchronizing gear, allowing it's machine gun to fire between the propeller blades. This was a huge advantage. This period was known as the "Fokker Scourge", as the Allies had nothing comparable until 1916. While the Eindecker was nothing special in the maneuverability or speed dept, the synchronizing gear allowed it to dominate.
By summer of 1916 the British introduced aircraft like the Airco DH-2 and the Sopwith Pup, both of which were turn fighters. The French introduced the Nieuport 11, also a turn fighter. These three aircraft help end the Fokker Scourge and introducing a period of Allied air supremacy. The Pup was highly maneuverable, but was underpowered. Likewise, the Nieuport 11 was nimble, but suffered from a weak lower wing, which had an alarming tendency to break off in a steep dive!
During this time, the Germans introduced the Halberstadt D.II, which was an improvement over the Eindecker, but was still out-classed by the Allied machines listed above.
By the fall of 1916, the Germans rebounded with the Albatros D.II. The Albatross was fast, maneuverable and was armed with two Spandau machine guns. Meanwhile, the French introduced the SPAD S.VII and the Nieuport 17. The SPAD was very fast for its day, but was not very maneuverable. It was the first Allied "Boom & Zoom" fighter. Conversely, the Nieuport 17 was an improved turn fighter based on the Nieuport 11. Like the 11, pilots learned not to push the 17 too hard in a dive, lest the lower wing depart.
In late 1916, the Sopwith Triplane was introduced for use by the Royal Naval Air Service. It was immediately successful, with good maneuverability. Poor bracing, however, limited the steepness of its dive, and it was equipped with but a single Vickers machine gun. Still, until the advent of the better aircraft like the SE5a and Sopwith Camel, it was an excellent aircraft for its time.
With the introduction of the Albatros D.III in late 1916-early 1917, the tables once again swung back to the Germans. This aircraft was the one with which Manfred von Richtofen scored the majority of his kills. With most of the Allied fighters from the early 1916 becoming obsolete, the Germans had a field day in April 1917, known as "Bloody April" due to the large losses suffered at the hands of the Albatros D.III.
An improved version of the D.II, it was a capable fighter and the Allies had nothing comparable with the exception of the Sopwith Triplane, which were in too small of numbers to overcome the Albatros' domination.
Moving ahead to early summer of 1917, the Allies finally wrestled air superiority back from the Germans with the introduction of two aircraft: The Sopwith Camel and the Royal Aircraft Factory SE5a. The Sopwith Camel was powerful and nimble, but also inherently unstable. Until fledgling pilots learned its quirks, it killed almost as many pilots in accidents as were killed in battle. This instability was also one of its key strengths, allowing pilots to the strong torque of the engine to provide almost instantaneous turns to the right. The Camel was also the first Allied fighter plane equipped with twin synchronized Vickers machine guns mounted in front of the pilot.
The SE5a was the first effective British "Boom & Zoom" fighter, with the fastest top speed of any fighter airplane of either side until late 1918. The SE5a was not a great turn fighter, but could climb and dive its way out of trouble with virtual impunity. It was also a stable gun platform, mounting one Vickers machine gun on the cowl and a single Lewis gun in a swivel mount on the top wing.
Arriving on the scene in the summer of 1917 as an answer to the SE5a and Sopwith Camel, were the Albatros D.Va and the Pfalz D.III. The Albatros D.Va was a minimal upgrade of the D.III, and was considered by many pilots to actually be inferior to the D.III. Consequently, the D.Va would have a rough time fighting against the likes of the SE5a and Sopwith Camel.
The Pfalz D.III was strong and fast, but not as maneuverable as the Albatros D.III. It was a capable "Boom & Zoom" fighter.
Arriving in late 1917, two very effective planes arrived in increasingly large numbers. The French SPAD S.XIII and the German Fokker DR.1.
The SPAD S.XIII was a beast. Very fast, sturdy and great in a dive. It was not a turn fighter per se, but could turn relatively well when it had to. It was primarily a B & Z fighter, however. It's twin Vickers machine guns made it more than a match for all German fighters of early 1918. It was considered to be the best French fighter of the war.
The legendary Fokker DR.1 Triplane had similar performance to the Sopwith Camel, and could turn on a dime. It was slow, however, and you could not easily run away from a fight. It's most famous exponent was the Red Baron, of course. Von Richtofen would die at the controls of his DR.1, victim of an Australian machine gun company on the ground.
Mid 1918 saw the introduction of arguably the best fighter plane of the war, the Fokker D. VII. This plane could do it all. It was easy to fly, relatively fast, and could turn well. Pilots could fight in the D.VII in many different ways.
In mid 1918, the British replied with the Sopwith Dolphin, a fast, maneuverable plane that was popular with its pilots. It was not the match of the Fokker D.VII, but was a welcome addition to the Allied stable of fighters as the Camel and SE5a aged.
The Germans introduced the Pfalz D.XII in the summer of 1918. While it was an improvement over the Pfalz D.III and Albatros D.Va, it was considered to be a "Poor Man's Fokker D.VII" and was mostly relegated to quieter sectors of the front.
Late in the war, the Sopwith Snipe - an improved Camel - was introduced to popular acclaim. While not a fast aircraft compared to the SE5a or SPAD S.XIII, it was nevertheless a powerful climber and could turn effectively. The Snipe was a match for the Fokker D.VII when in capable hands.
Hope that helps, Grim. I left out many other less well-known aircraft, but I'm getting anxious to get flying, so you'll have to read about them yourself. ;D
Wonderful narrative. Refreshes my knowledge gained while reading up on the topic and playing Knights of the Sky doing my younger years.
Went on a intercept mission in my German campaign....heck of a time for flying in a driving rain storm.....but duty called, had to intercept a bunch of SPADs before they entered our sector. By the time we engaged, most of my squadron engaged first and took care of the enemy, either shooting them down or driving them back home. I had a chance to briefly chase a couple of the enemy fighters, but could not get close enough for kill shots.....still a pretty fun time nonetheless.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1117.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk592%2FGrimReaper42%2FWOFF%2FShot12-22-13-21-01-19.jpg&hash=5b83e5c6383876c3de555d5d3218771c6cb00823)
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Quote from: Toonces on December 22, 2013, 03:25:55 PM
As SW says at the end there, one of the keys to knocking down targets (IMO) is to get very close before you start lighting the guy up. These guns weren't accurate enough and didn't have the hitting power to go knocking down aircraft at 500 yards like .50 cals. Try to get really close, like 50 yards or less, and when you are getting hits just hold the trigger down.
Also the best way to get kills in RoF
Nefaro, quick question on Joystick setup.
Within the game, if you want to make the stick/controls feel tighter (less sensitive), do you raise or lower the numbers for dead zone?
Within the game, if you want to make the stick/controls feel looser (more sensitive), do you raise or lower the numbers for dead zone?
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 22, 2013, 11:04:05 PM
Nefaro, quick question on Joystick setup.
Within the game, if you want to make the stick/controls feel tighter (less sensitive), do you raise or lower the numbers for dead zone?
Less sensitive = lower the value
QuoteWithin the game, if you want to make the stick/controls feel looser (more sensitive), do you raise or lower the numbers for dead zone?
More sensitive = raise the value
I wouldn't have matched the terms "looser" and "tighter" as you did, so I went by sensitivity. The more sensitive it is, the faster the control surfaces will move for the same amount of stick movement.
I have the axis settings on my T-Flight X HOTAS set to:
Axis X: Bank - Scale 100, Nullzone 4
Axis Y: Pitch - Scale 31, Nullzone 3
Axis Rudder: Yaw - Scale 66, Nullzone 3
and I added the big rocker switch on the back of the throttle as an extra rudder with these settings:
Axis Slider: Yaw - Scale 7, Nullzone 8
I could probably raise the Bank (aileron) scale up even higher for faster roll rate but I think 100 has been a decent balance between precision and speed thus far. It may get pushed even higher in the future. I could also completely drop the dead zone ratings on all but the rocker switch but I've kept just a tiny bit for when I get a lazy hand resting on the stick a bit too much in one direction. Considering you have to constantly apply stick to keep flying straight in these old kites, I should probably just drop the nullzone to zero on all but the rudder inputs.
Thanks again Nefaro. What does the scale setting do? I understand the dead zone, but wasn't sure about scale.
Are there ground attack missions? If so, has anyone flown one yet?
Quote from: Gusington on December 23, 2013, 08:57:07 AM
Are there ground attack missions? If so, has anyone flown one yet?
I assume there are, because you have the option of being a fighter pilot or a bomber/observation pilot. I haven't done any yet, though.
I'm still trying to get my controls dialed in for the optimal sensitivity.
Anyone know if there's an in-game keystroke for bringing up the key mapper while flying a mission? It's kind of a pain to have to keep exiting a mission in order to change sensitivity on an axis.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 23, 2013, 05:57:06 AM
Thanks again Nefaro. What does the scale setting do? I understand the dead zone, but wasn't sure about scale.
It's the sensitivity. The higher the number the faster your joystick movements translate. So if you were finding the pitch too sensitive, for example, you could lower the 'Scale' value to make it easier for smaller movements. If you are having to push quite a ways to get an effect you think should be more responsive, increase the Scale value (I did this for the slow default roll rate).
Quote from: Gusington on December 23, 2013, 08:57:07 AM
Are there ground attack missions? If so, has anyone flown one yet?
Yes and yes. I have flown a few bombing missions. You don't have many or large bombs in most cases and it obviously takes some practice being able to bomb from altitude. Dive bombing in most of these airplanes can be troublesome since you don't want to dive too long for risk of tearing your wings off, so it has to be quick.
I've mostly been given missions to bomb enemy airfields, if I'm flying an aircraft that can carry bombs. There was another bombing mission against a factory or some such, too. You'll also get attack & defend missions on balloons, of course. Watch out for the ground fire under 2k feet when you're near an enemy infantry unit or military installation, the machineguns can be nasty.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 23, 2013, 09:49:33 AM
Anyone know if there's an in-game keystroke for bringing up the key mapper while flying a mission? It's kind of a pain to have to keep exiting a mission in order to change sensitivity on an axis.
Nope. Not that I know of. From what I've read the old CFS3 style menu was terrible. They ripped it out and cooked up a completely new one (it's obviously a separate program). I'm pretty sure it only works from the main menu.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 23, 2013, 09:49:33 AM
Quote from: Gusington on December 23, 2013, 08:57:07 AM
Are there ground attack missions? If so, has anyone flown one yet?
I assume there are, because you have the option of being a fighter pilot or a bomber/observation pilot. I haven't done any yet, though.
I'm still trying to get my controls dialed in for the optimal sensitivity.
Anyone know if there's an in-game keystroke for bringing up the key mapper while flying a mission? It's kind of a pain to have to keep exiting a mission in order to change sensitivity on an axis.
If you go to the directory
C:\Games\OBDSoftware\WOFF\Toolbox, there is a program called woffkeys.exe, it is a stand alone program that can be run outside of the game. Therefore, you can have the key mapper program up while in the main game and alt-tab between the two.....however, what I don't know is if your in the middle of a flight if the new key mapping settings you apply immediately take affect...might be worth a shot to try.
Thanks, Grim, I'll give that a shot tonight and see if the saves apply while the game is running. I did notice something a little funky last night. When I alt-tabbed out of WOFF, it didn't go down to my taskbar. Kinda strange, but not a big deal.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 23, 2013, 02:04:25 PM
Thanks, Grim, I'll give that a shot tonight and see if the saves apply while the game is running. I did notice something a little funky last night. When I alt-tabbed out of WOFF, it didn't go down to my taskbar. Kinda strange, but not a big deal.
Yeah, noticed the same....so just have to cycle through each one unfortunately. I am kind of thinking the settings won't take affect until at least the next mission since the two programs likely don't talk to each other real time, but who knows.
I doubt they update without doing all the settings from the Main Menu's "Workshop" or restarting your campaign. Not while you're in one.
You could also possibly crash something if changing stuff while manually running the extra program elsewhere.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 23, 2013, 09:55:08 PM
I doubt they update without doing all the settings from the Main Menu's "Workshop" or restarting your campaign. Not while you're in one.
You could also possibly crash something if changing stuff while manually running the extra program elsewhere.
I gave it a try this morning and it does not crash anything and the settings are changeable within the keys program that you can alt-tab too, as long as you make sure you hit the save button. I am pretty sure the keys program is the same as the program you get to while going through the workshop. However, as expected the changed bindings did not take affect right away. It seems the bindings get loaded at the start of a mission so they will take affect the next mission you play. You do not have to restart an entire campaign to have the new bindings understood.
I also noticed that the key mapper kept beeping at me while I had both programs running at the same time, and was actually playing the game.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 24, 2013, 11:12:02 AM
I also noticed that the key mapper kept beeping at me while I had both programs running at the same time, and was actually playing the game.
That's interesting, I did not have that happen with that separate program. I have seen the game beep sometimes when a dialog box is open but hidden in the background for some reason. For example, when I was getting an error message about my graphic settings, I heard it. Once it was closed, worked fine. There might be some hidden box opening for you as well that you might not be seeing. Just a thought.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 24, 2013, 07:12:10 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 23, 2013, 09:55:08 PM
I doubt they update without doing all the settings from the Main Menu's "Workshop" or restarting your campaign. Not while you're in one.
You could also possibly crash something if changing stuff while manually running the extra program elsewhere.
I gave it a try this morning and it does not crash anything and the settings are changeable within the keys program that you can alt-tab too, as long as you make sure you hit the save button. I am pretty sure the keys program is the same as the program you get to while going through the workshop. However, as expected the changed bindings did not take affect right away. It seems the bindings get loaded at the start of a mission so they will take affect the next mission you play. You do not have to restart an entire campaign to have the new bindings understood.
As I thought.. it doesn't take immediate effect.
So you may as well exit the campaign to the main menu, when you finish a mission, and just use the Workshop before returning to it. :P It will have the same effect without you having to run the separate program, anyway.
I've had pilot death off for awhile now, and noticed something appropriate.
After a few early deaths in the first week or two, I became much better at avoiding death later. I'm sure some of it was due to familiarity with the aircraft and general experience. It has helped me improve, though, and that was what I had been aiming for.
I'm still rather wary of turning pilot death back on right now since even the lightest flop over or injury always ends in death for my pilots. Nothing more disappointing than doing a great job of landing a damaged plane back at your aerodrome, but tipping it up on it's nose just before it has stopped ends up in your pilot getting good & dead. Even the smallest mishaps can be extremely brutal.
Well, that only took three days to figure out why my ailerons were so messed up. I noticed while flying that when I kicked my toe brake forward, I suddenly flipped almost upside down. Looking back, I discovered that my right pedal toe brake was mapped to the elevator!
So, a quick trip into the key mapper to unmap every other control on the rudder pedals except for rudder function, solved the problem completely. Why the hell they would have other functions defaulted to a set of rudder pedals other than rudder(and perhaps toe brakes) makes no flippin' sense to me.
Anyway, all better now.
I didn't realize some of you are using rudder pedals. I knew this was an issue but hadn't head any complaints. *shrug*
I'm pretty sure I can't use them comfortably so I've never picked up a set.
Yessir, I'm doing the full HOTAS setup, including Track IR.
This is going to be brutal doing an early war gig in the Eindecker. As soon as the DH-2 shows up, it's going to be extremely difficult to survive.
I'm not so worried about the landing, except that they really need to clear out a couple more acres of trees to have a little more room to come in for a safe landing!
You guys are slightly ahead of me in the game. Got the CFS3 DVD and went to load it up and it was corrupted :/ WOFF physical copy has not arrived yet either. But my 19.99 HOTAS stick did arrive. 1 of 3 aint bad :(
Quote from: Gusington on December 28, 2013, 11:35:43 AM
You guys are slightly ahead of me in the game. Got the CFS3 DVD and went to load it up and it was corrupted :/ WOFF physical copy has not arrived yet either. But my 19.99 HOTAS stick did arrive. 1 of 3 aint bad :(
There is no disc check if you install CFS3 on your hard drive, with the CD version.
In case anyone ever wants to get the cheaper option.
Are you sure the DVD was the one corrupted, or was it your WOFF installer download? I've occasionally had success copying & pasting the install files from a DVD onto a hard drive when the disc was scratched or behaving badly when trying to install from one.
^Haven't downloaded WOFF, waiting for the physical copy to arrive. My internet is very slow.
Tried the CFS3 DVD in two different drives and got the same result...just spinning and spinning. Already contacted the vendor for a replacement.
Quote from: Gusington on December 28, 2013, 01:32:26 PM
^Haven't downloaded WOFF, waiting for the physical copy to arrive. My internet is very slow.
Tried the CFS3 DVD in two different drives and got the same result...just spinning and spinning. Already contacted the vendor for a replacement.
The WOFF installer just barely fits on a blank DVD-R. I didn't order a physical copy.. did you?
^Yep, waiting for delivery. And a functioning copy of CFS3. Thought I would install CFS3 ahead of time.
Quote from: Gusington on December 28, 2013, 01:38:38 PM
^Yep, waiting for delivery. And a functioning copy of CFS3. Thought I would install CFS3 ahead of time.
Stinks it didn't work...but guess until you get the physical game, not a huge unless you wanted to try CFS3 with your new joystick:) So far I am liking the joystick, can't beat the $19 for it.
Have any of you checked out some of Hellshade's vids of WOFF? I think the latest ones are all just big Quick Combat dogfights but it still makes me want to play.
He's pretty good at it, too.
His engine gets hit here, and the damaged engine sound is pretty cool. I've not experienced that kind of engine hit yet.
Here's one where he's flying a Tripe:
INCOMING......already aircraft add-ons coming in January:) This is great news to keep the game fresh with new content, just hope reasonably priced:) Don't want to get back into having to buy a ton like ROF (yes, I know it is optional).
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3885222/Addon_Packs_Coming_soon#Post3885222
Announcement:
Sometime in January we will start releasing the first Addon Pack
First up is the Fokker Scourge and includes:
1) Eindecker EI and skins and associated squadrons for full campaign play.
2) Eindecker EII and skins and associated squadrons for full campaign play.
3) Enables the BE2c Early with rifle in campaign with all associated squadrons for full campaign play.
We are working on others as well.
That should make some of you early war fans happy.
^YES indeed :) Awesome, but not good news for my wallet. And great videos too, that will keep me going until I can set the game up.
Thanks GH for the link on the HOTAS too, 20.00 as you said is a price to beat.
Question: are there zeppelins in WOFF?
Quote from: Gusington on December 28, 2013, 04:27:49 PM
^YES indeed :) Awesome, but not good news for my wallet. And great videos too, that will keep me going until I can set the game up.
Thanks GH for the link on the HOTAS too, 20.00 as you said is a price to beat.
Question: are there zeppelins in WOFF?
I don't believe so...but observation balloons are in there, but I know they aren't the same things.
Hmm, I'm surprised that they're not working on something for the Allied side during the Fokker Scourge, like the Morane-Saulnier N, more popularly called the Morane Bullet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morane-Saulnier_N
Quote from: Gusington on December 28, 2013, 04:27:49 PM
And great videos too, that will keep me going until I can set the game up.
Just click on Hellshade's name on YouTube for his full list.. he has quite a few more WOFF vids. I just re-watched some more of his Brit plane vids, including some in the SE5 and the Pup. :-*
It definitely gets you in the mood.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 28, 2013, 04:48:25 PM
Hmm, I'm surprised that they're not working on something for the Allied side during the Fokker Scourge, like the Morane-Saulnier N, more popularly called the Morane Bullet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morane-Saulnier_N
Maybe they are and that will be an additional add-on pack:)
All kidding aside, I really hope they don't go too far down the ROF model where everything becomes a add-on purchase....one of the reasons I bought WOFF was the fact it started out with a large assortment of aircraft already. I know everything will be optional, but kind of drags me down if I want all the new stuff I will have to invest a fortune into this game and that was a reason I moved away from ROF in the first place:(
Hell.. between the base WOFF game and the Skins add-on pack, I'm already $85 deep into the game. These WWI flight sims sure take their toll, don't they? :P At least WOFF doesn't push you to log into their server.
Fortunately for me, I'm not into the early war stuff like you guys so I can hold out on expansions until I see something interesting later on. All my essential planes are already in the base game.
I wonder if they'll ever add some Italian aircraft? I dunno if it would make much sense unless they added a special map covering that front. That would be like a whole new sim, though. :o
Quote from: Nefaro on December 28, 2013, 05:05:57 PM
Hell.. between the base WOFF game and the Skins add-on pack, I'm already $85 deep into the game. These WWI flight sims sure take their toll, don't they? :P At least WOFF doesn't push you to log into their server.
That's my point exactly...one thing they mentioned along with their fans is that you get so much content that it makes it better than ROF...which is great at the start. But if it turns into a thousand DLC, then not going to be too much different. If they want to stay in the game, they have to differentiate themselves from ROF, especially as they continue to keep using outdated stuff like CFS....but don't get me wrong, the in game experience is great and a selling point itself...
I've been increasingly appreciating the new AI they reportedly created for WOFF.
Those crafty enemy pilots know when to get the F out of Victimland. I've also had some other experiences that were pretty amazing regarding AI behavior, including those of my own squadron mates.
A day or two ago I was cruising along with some other squaddies at about 9 or 10kft and they evidentally spotted something as they all quickly turned around, heading away from our assigned patrol area. I turned my autopilot off because I spotted a couple aircraft ahead of us and figured, "we outnumber them, where are you guys going!?" so I wanted to check it out. In short order another huge flock of British planes show up and pounce on me from above. Our flight would've been outnumbered and at a lower altitude had my AI flight leader continued on. I should've stuck with them and their better part of valor! :o It would've saved my air biscuit.
I've had enemy aces tail me all the way back to my aerodrome and I've had rookie pilots take their first opportunity to dive towards the deck and boogie out of there quick after I took a couple shots at them. It's cool that they're not just homicidal maniacs tirelessly dogfighting you.
^That's very cool that there are multiple personalities...
...and that Morane-Saulnier N is sweet looking plane. Love the early (1914-1915) machines.
Quote from: Gusington on December 28, 2013, 05:39:26 PM
^That's very cool that there are multiple personalities...
...and that Morane-Saulnier N is sweet looking plane. Love the early (1914-1915) machines.
There is no doubt the AI is the star of this game....I will take a smart AI over graphics any day of the week...
For me it will clearly lead to more variety in the way I get shot down...until and if I get the hang of things. No matter what, after training I am hoping to start a German campaign.
Are there any AH, Italian, or Russian front missions?
Quote from: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 06:15:29 PM
Are there any AH, Italian, or Russian front missions?
Nope, you have the current choice of squadrons
Britain: 42 Fighter squadrons ; 27 2-Seater Squadrons
Germany: 80 Fighter squadrons ; 101 2-Seater Squadrons
France: 79 Fighter squadrons ; 24 2-Seater Squadrons
USA: 14 Fighter squadrons
^IIRC Nefaro stated that for now WOFF is strictly Western Front. But I would love some of the above.
Silly me, forgot to look at the last page before responding. :-[
^For your knowledge of WWI aviation, we forgive you.
Patch 1.7 released today...nice to see their active support.
Haha, so much for my 23 years of flight sim experience.
On my very first mission, I was assigned as flight leader of a two-plane flight of E.III's on a combat patrol over no-man's land.
Flying at about 3,000 meters, I spot a Nieuport 11 about 1,000 meters below. I look back and my wingman was gone! I frantically start looking for him, wondering whether he had dived down to attack the "Bebe". I finally spot him flying away towards the direction of our aerodrome. The cowardly bastard abandoned me!
So, as I'm thinking this over, and trying to talk myself into not attempting to take on a Nieuport 11 all alone on my first mission. Meanwhile, as I periodically check over my shoulders, I see the Nieuport 11 breaking hard into me!
Takakakakakaka, and my machine is disabled. I point my nose to the NE in an attempt to reach German lines. The French pilot dives to finish me off, and I try to evade, but am not successful. He pumps more bullets into me, and I plummet to the ground from about 500 ft.
1 mission, one death. Guess I'm a little rusty! ;D
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 30, 2013, 10:58:29 AM
Haha, so much for my 23 years of flight sim experience.
On my very first mission, I was assigned as flight leader of a two-plane flight of E.III's on a combat patrol over no-man's land.
Flying at about 3,000 meters, I spot a Nieuport 11 about 1,000 meters below. I look back and my wingman was gone! I frantically start looking for him, wondering whether he had dived down to attack the "Bebe". I finally spot him flying away towards the direction of our aerodrome. The cowardly bastard abandoned me!
So, as I'm thinking this over, and trying to talk myself into not attempting to take on a Nieuport 11 all alone on my first mission. Meanwhile, as I periodically check over my shoulders, I see the Nieuport 11 breaking hard into me!
Takakakakakaka, and my machine is disabled. I point my nose to the NE in an attempt to reach German lines. The French pilot dives to finish me off, and I try to evade, but am not successful. He pumps more bullets into me, and I plummet to the ground from about 500 ft.
1 mission, one death. Guess I'm a little rusty! ;D
I have no WOFF experience, but the E.III in RoF is pretty flimsy. Apparently most of the victims of the Fokker scourge were planes like the
BE-2c -- very slow and not very nimble. The FE-2b -- at least in RoF -- has no trouble killing E.IIIs. I think by the time the Nieuport was widely available the Fokker scourge was coming to an end.
That's precisely why I looked to make sure that my wingman was still with me. I would have felt comfortable taking on a lone Nieuport 11 with a wingman, but not without one.
I should have climbed and not have taken my eyes off the Nieuport. "Lose sight, lose the fight" is a very old and wise saying.
I was reading a story by someone over at the official forums and was pretty cool....after a flight, he had to force land his plane. After he landed, the enemy pilot continued to shoot at him on the ground and ended up killing him....reminds me of the scene from the movie Flyboys:)
Pretty neat that little things like this can happen....
More news on future add-ons, looks like zeppelins will make an appearance at some point...here is the post from the developer.
*****************
Yes the Gotha and Zep will be coming in an addon pack as part of the WW1 attacks on London and envirions...
Again you will get the craft and the squads and the campaign play and skins etc to live through these events.
No date set yet.
And yes others are planned.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 30, 2013, 01:43:27 PM
I was reading a story by someone over at the official forums and was pretty cool....after a flight, he had to force land his plane. After he landed, the enemy pilot continued to shoot at him on the ground and ended up killing him....reminds me of the scene from the movie Flyboys:)
Pretty neat that little things like this can happen....
I've made a few emergency landings and if there were enemy pilots on my tail, they'd circle around and start strafing me. :D Sometimes they would give up in short order and leave, other times they'd make multiple passes in order to kill me.
And now patch 1.8 is available...they are on a roll with updates
GIGGITY - Gothas and airships.
FYI the vendor who sent me the bad CFS3 DVD has replaced it at no charge, shipping or otherwise. Actual WOFF game disk has not arrived yet though.
Quote from: Gusington on December 30, 2013, 04:43:44 PM
GIGGITY - Gothas and airships.
FYI the vendor who sent me the bad CFS3 DVD has replaced it at no charge, shipping or otherwise. Actual WOFF game disk has not arrived yet though.
Good deal...hopefully the actual game disk makes it your way soon. I know the vendor said orders would go out slowly over the holiday so no idea how long it might take. Not sure if they send out tracking info too to give you any clue as to whether it was sent or not. I know some of the people did get them since they had pictures of the box, but I think they ordered right away when it first came out.
I need to check out the site, but I think it may be another couple of weeks. I will DEFINITELY be getting the expansion that includes attacks on London, zeppelins, etc.
Don't know why I didn't try this sooner, but actually installed CFS3 and gave it a go......I actually took down a couple of aircraft and ground targets....amazing, didn't think I was destined to ever hit anything:) Maybe I am just a better WW2 pilot versus WW1 :)
Although the scenery is very dated, the planes don't look too bad and actually was fun to play....glad I gave it a try. I was actually able to fly the planes level and straight versus jumping all over the place, I guess the WW1 planes really did have worse handling (no shock there).
Thanks to WOFF, might have two nice games in one here....
I don't know for sure but IIRC there are a ton of other CFS3 mods too.
Tried to check the shipping of my physical copy but the Avangate site just says 'all items shipped.' :/
How big is the download? Starting to get itchy enough to try it on my less than stellar internet connection.
Quote from: Gusington on December 30, 2013, 06:34:20 PM
I don't know for sure but IIRC there are a ton of other CFS3 mods too.
Tried to check the shipping of my physical copy but the Avangate site just says 'all items shipped.' :/
How big is the download? Starting to get itchy enough to try it on my less than stellar internet connection.
4.5GB...their site is pretty slow anyway, so even if you have fast Internet you may get slow download anyway....I say it is worth a shot.
I have poor DSL (only 3 MBps) and I just let it run over night and was done by the morning....no harm in trying.
4.5 GB...compared to some new games like Rome 2 that's tiny!
Quote from: Gusington on December 30, 2013, 06:43:28 PM
4.5 GB...compared to some new games like Rome 2 that's tiny!
Tell me about it...the last two games I bought (Injustice and Splinter Cell Blacklist) each were around 20GB a piece...took me multiple days to get these installed.
I am actually upgrading my Internet tomorrow to 18 MBps, so hoping that helps a lot...but with these games becoming so big, getting a little concerned of reaching my monthly usage allowance from the Internet company...never thought I would get close.
IIRC Rome 2 is 30GB + ... either way now I still have to wait for a functioning CFS3 disk, though :/
Quote from: Gusington on December 30, 2013, 06:57:20 PM
IIRC Rome 2 is 30GB + ... either way now I still have to wait for a functioning CFS3 disk, though :/
I think rome was actually in the 10-15 GB range, but when actually installed it was in the 30GB range.....still bigger than I like:)
Very true about the CFS3 disk....I was actually at my local Target store today and they had a bunch of them on the shelf....
I will say one thing that concerns me about this game is how long they will be able to make the CFS3 engine work.....at some point a new operating system or combination of new hardware is going to impact the ability to play this game. Plus, eventually it will become hard to find a CFS3 disk for new customers...so what do they do at that point? I don't believe they are big enough to make their own engine, unless someone publishers picks them up (which might be deserved based on their work so far).
So if I completely invest in this game and all the add-ons, just hoping when Windows 9 comes out, that the game is still functional.....otherwise, a lot of money down the drain.
I think eventually they will integrate whatever code is still used from CFS3 into their own product, when licenses expire, etc.
Quote from: Gusington on December 30, 2013, 07:58:21 PM
I think eventually they will integrate whatever code is still used from CFS3 into their own product, when licenses expire, etc.
Yep, we will see....I hope it does at some point, but the fact it hasn't been done yet gives me pause. I am guessing they are a pretty small shop with limited resources and I have no idea what kind of money they make from this game. But I wish them the best of luck and I am no way going to let this bother me in the near term....if I get a couple of years out of it, will be fine by me:)
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 30, 2013, 01:46:21 PM
More news on future add-ons, looks like zeppelins will make an appearance at some point...here is the post from the developer.
*****************
Yes the Gotha and Zep will be coming in an addon pack as part of the WW1 attacks on London and envirions...
Again you will get the craft and the squads and the campaign play and skins etc to live through these events.
No date set yet.
And yes others are planned.
If they let us fly Zeppelins I cry tears of pure joy. I have been looking for an immersive rigid dirigible sim or add on since
*insert hyperbole here*.
Quote from: Staggerwing on December 30, 2013, 08:52:40 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 30, 2013, 01:46:21 PM
More news on future add-ons, looks like zeppelins will make an appearance at some point...here is the post from the developer.
*****************
Yes the Gotha and Zep will be coming in an addon pack as part of the WW1 attacks on London and envirions...
Again you will get the craft and the squads and the campaign play and skins etc to live through these events.
No date set yet.
And yes others are planned.
If they let us fly Zeppelins I cry tears of pure joy. I have been looking for an immersive rigid dirigible sim or add on since *insert hyperbole here*.
That's a great question, will we be able to fly them or will they just be mission targets? Never really thought of being able to fly them, but that would be cool. Would we even be able to take a gunner's position as well? Interesting....
Quote from: Gusington on December 30, 2013, 06:43:28 PM
4.5 GB...compared to some new games like Rome 2 that's tiny!
The installation footprint is still around 21GB for WOFF's base game. They must've done some magical compression on it by getting the installer package down to about 4.6GB. ???
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 30, 2013, 08:56:10 PM
That's a great question, will we be able to fly them or will they just be mission targets? Never really thought of being able to fly them, but that would be cool. Would we even be able to take a gunner's position as well? Interesting....
I'd be astounded if zeppelins were anything but targets. I don't see the fun in flying those big slow air boats. However, knowing some of you guys, you'd want to take off in the Wright flyer, or the long slow descent of a diving bell, if they had it modelled in a game. I just wonder if those of you who would want to sim flying a zeppelin over the north sea would still enjoy doing so after going through one long dull mission. :P
Yeah I wouldn't count on zeppelins being pilotable.
Wouldn't want to fly them, but might be interesting to man one of the gunners positions:)
Hrmm.. feels like there are so many choices to make on with whom & where I want to start a new series of (soon to be dead) pilots. I've mostly done British pilots, and some Germans in Spring/Summer/Fall 1917.
Right about summer is when some of the earlier staple dogfighters start getting replaced with some newer ones so it's been a favorite starting period for me in order to experience an aircraft upgrade. Going from Albatros D.III to D.V is nice and going from a Sopwith Pup to a Camel is a big leap. The SE5s also start making a slow appearance. I haven't even flown an SE5 in WOFF yet so I may give one of those a try but I've probably done best in a Camel. Still need to learn the SPADs too! What to do.. what to do, decisions!
As an added bonus I live here in KC with the big WWI museum. Getting some family & friends together for a lengthy visit in the next month or so. :D A fitting start for the centennial year.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
Jasta 12 has been sustaining some serious casualty rates this month. Despite no large offensive being underway, the attrition has been quite brutal. Replacements can't show up fast enough! It also seems that the higher ranking greenhorns have been taking our fine new Albatros D.Vs to the grave with them. >:(
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F8932%2Fydem.jpg&hash=e4c3f6528619cb8d0cd91a8f205f50805bdd72e5)
I wish the Historical Aces on the duty rosters would show some kind of 'Kills' progression. They just list N/A the whole time, but if you do the in-game historical aces search and read their bio, it lists their confirmed kills up to that date so it must be possible. Maybe in some DLC or something..
Quote from: Nefaro on December 30, 2013, 10:44:02 PM
I'd be astounded if zeppelins were anything but targets. I don't see the fun in flying those big slow air boats. However, knowing some of you guys, you'd want to take off in the Wright flyer, or the long slow descent of a diving bell, if they had it modelled in a game. I just wonder if those of you who would want to sim flying a zeppelin over the north sea would still enjoy doing so after going through one long dull mission. :P
You're asking this on a web site where a notable percent of members have boating sims, train sims, civil aviation sims, truck driving sims, and even
farming sims... :D
Quote from: Nefaro on December 31, 2013, 02:31:29 AM
It also seems that the higher ranking greenhorns have been taking our fine new Albatros D.Vs to the grave with them. >:(
The Albatros D.V was seen as a minor upgrade from the D.III by most pilots, and many thought the D.III was superior. What a rude shock that must have been!
Does the D.V perform a lot better than the D.III in WOFF?
BTW, Nefaro, I didn't see your pilot on that list of Jasta 12. What names do you use? I tend to use names from movie characters, porn stars, scientists, etc. My first pilot(may he rest in pieces) was Hans Gruber, which was the name of the bad guy in the film "Die Hard".
Where the hell do they come up with all those German names?
I am totally jealous Slick, I've been wanting to go to the WWI museum in your neck of the woods forever.
Quote from: Gusington on December 31, 2013, 11:25:36 AM
I am totally jealous Slick, I've been wanting to go to the WWI museum in your neck of the woods forever.
I think that museum is in Nefaro's neighborhood, Gus. Nothing around my neighborhood except the Mayo Clinic. :)
Quote from: Gusington on December 31, 2013, 11:25:36 AM
Where the hell do they come up with all those German names?
I am totally jealous Slick, I've been wanting to go to the WWI museum in your neck of the woods forever.
Not all, all GErman. Meierdirk was a Hobbit.
Quote from: MengJiao on December 31, 2013, 12:57:19 PM
Not all, all GErman. Meierdirk was a Hobbit.
Meriadoc? Have I just failed to get a joke?
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 31, 2013, 08:54:49 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 31, 2013, 02:31:29 AM
It also seems that the higher ranking greenhorns have been taking our fine new Albatros D.Vs to the grave with them. >:(
The Albatros D.V was seen as a minor upgrade from the D.III by most pilots, and many thought the D.III was superior. What a rude shock that must have been!
Does the D.V perform a lot better than the D.III in WOFF?
BTW, Nefaro, I didn't see your pilot on that list of Jasta 12. What names do you use? I tend to use names from movie characters, porn stars, scientists, etc. My first pilot(may he rest in pieces) was Hans Gruber, which was the name of the bad guy in the film "Die Hard".
I thought the purpose of the D.V was to strengthen the wing and attachments as prior models tended to break apart in a dive.(?) in RoF I almost solely fly the DVa...radiator cap makes a great gunsight, clear fields of vision, fairly good in turn and -most importantly- stable in erratic flight. (Unlike the camel which will spin me to death if I try and turn to sharp)
Quote from: mikeck on December 31, 2013, 01:28:44 PM
I thought the purpose of the D.V was to strengthen the wing and attachments as prior models tended to break apart in a dive.(?) in RoF I almost solely fly the DVa...radiator cap makes a great gunsight, clear fields of vision, fairly good in turn and -most importantly- stable in erratic flight. (Unlike the camel which will spin me to death if I try and turn to sharp)
Well, that was the idea. But the D.V suffered from structural failures, too! Albatros mostly fixed this with the introduction of the D.Va, which, while being heavier than the D.III, also used a stronger engine to compensate(180 hp vs. 170 hp).
Quote from: Father Ted on December 31, 2013, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on December 31, 2013, 12:57:19 PM
Not all, all GErman. Meierdirk was a Hobbit.
Meriadoc? Have I just failed to get a joke?
Sorry. You got what there was of it.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on December 31, 2013, 08:54:49 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 31, 2013, 02:31:29 AM
It also seems that the higher ranking greenhorns have been taking our fine new Albatros D.Vs to the grave with them. >:(
The Albatros D.V was seen as a minor upgrade from the D.III by most pilots, and many thought the D.III was superior. What a rude shock that must have been!
Does the D.V perform a lot better than the D.III in WOFF?
The DVa seems to have bit more speed on it but it also tends to wing stall easier than the D.III. So, yes, the D.III is superior in at least one way. I suppose the heavier DV is a trade-off. I have performed better in the D.III, in the sim.
QuoteBTW, Nefaro, I didn't see your pilot on that list of Jasta 12. What names do you use? I tend to use names from movie characters, porn stars, scientists, etc. My first pilot(may he rest in pieces) was Hans Gruber, which was the name of the bad guy in the film "Die Hard".
You can see a notation on one of the last columns of the roster list with the label "(Player)". As you can see, my pilot was named Hans Lurghoyff. I'd be surprised if anyone recognized the name but it
is a reference.
My physical copy has arrived! But I still have to wait for a working DVD of CFS3 :/
Quote from: Gusington on December 31, 2013, 04:56:24 PM
My physical copy has arrived! But I still have to wait for a working DVD of CFS3 :/
You can't just win:)
Small victories keep me going!
The infamous Camel wanting to turn on its own.
Title is wrong. The Camel actually failed to take off. But no worries as there were no fatalities.
Any now patch 1.9 released.....these guys keep on churning....
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 31, 2013, 07:21:46 PM
Any now patch 1.9 released.....these guys keep on churning....
Patch 1.8 actually improved my framerates a bit. I can turn Sun Glare back on and not get any micro-stutter. They reportedly fixed some artifacting with that update and I must've benefited from whatever fix that was. :D I already had my settings in the sweet spot anyway, but it's nice to have the sun glare back.
Quote from: jomni on December 31, 2013, 06:44:56 PM
The infamous Camel wanting to turn on its own.
Title is wrong. The Camel actually failed to take off. But no worries as there were no fatalities.
{vid}
I was murderizing huns in my earlier campaign, after getting used to flying the Camel. Definitely one of my favorite WWI airplanes.
You can tell from the vid the damn thing was so light that the torque on the rotary engine was trying to flip the thing. There's one moment when he let off the blip to a very brief full throttle and the damn thing started rocking to the right while it wasn't even moving. NoobKillah! :o
He obviously would've been better off if he had actually been intending to take off and not just the planned coasting along. I would think that going from zero to full power so quickly on take-off (so as
not to fully lift off) didn't help the situation.
I'm beginning to think that starting my first campaign in Spring of 1916 as an Eindecker pilot was not the best way to accrue confidence, or survive.
The E.III is just meat on the table against Nieuports and DH-2s.
To add insult to injury, my cat decided he wanted some lovin' just as we came into contact with an enemy squadron. He rubbed up against my joystick and caused my nose to pitch up sharply, which put me into a stall/flat spin. I recovered, but was then dead meat to the higher Nieuports.
Still looking to survive a single campaign sortie. :)
If it's that difficult for you, I foresee myself putting all my settings on 'Silly Nancy Boy.'
Quote from: Gusington on January 01, 2014, 12:48:50 PM
If it's that difficult for you, I foresee myself putting all my settings on 'Silly Nancy Boy.'
It's tough. The enemy pilot AI is no pushover (reportedly an issue in the older OFF) and you gotta be careful about bending & breaking your airframe at high speeds and Gs.
The easiest shots you can hope for is when an enemy AI pilot decides he wants to run away but you manage to catch up enough to squeeze off a steady burst into him. Otherwise you'll be having some challenging dogfights until one of you attempts to run or dies. Unlike ROF, you can't afford to get hit by them much because they
will mortally wound you if given a steady shot even for a brief time. Weave & bob!
43 Sqdn was assigned a bombing mission on some railyards near Loos.
Along the way, I noticed an enemy balloon near our flight path. I dove on it, with archie and machinegun fire erupting around me but the large flammable pillow ignited in some fine fireworks before I had pulled away amidst the ground fire.
I hadn't quite regained my flight's altitude when we reached the railyards so I dove once again, this time releasing my four small 25lb bombs from underneath my Camel. I had hit nothing with the things before and I had no reason to believe I could do so now. I wasn't sure how close I had struck the railyards as our rubbernecking was shortly interrupted by a large group of enemy Albatros scouts flying into the area at a similarly low altitude. They must've just taken off to intercept us!
At this point, our top cover flight had disappeared.. perhaps they were already having tea back at the 'drome. They picked a fine time to leave! There are eight Albatroses coming at what is now only a flight of four Camels. I think to myself, "surely my flight leader will get us the hell outta here!". Alas, no. He decides to turn to the right and engage, just as I see another flight of six to eight more Albatros scouts approaching from our left. We're behind enemy lines at around 3kft and in quite jam now. May as well go out with a bang!
I'm immediately engaged in a dogfight with four enemy planes, circling each other. I manage to get a couple bursts into one before another starts firing at me so I dive into a turn, pull up high and roll over on him long enough to give him the 'what for' too. Again there are at least two on my tail, attempting to line up shots so I roll out and use the Camel's amazing turning ability to get around on another. This time I have enough trigger time to hear his wings shredding from my gunfire and he tumbles over into the ground. The first couple are still nearby, obviously somewhat damaged, so I chase them both down and after some more dancing, they both go down. The last one soaks up a large amount of my ammo. Is that thing made of steel?! On my final pass his engine catches fire and both his wings rip off from all the damage I had done to them. My wheels very nearly collided with him and I'm convinced the only reason that did not happen was the loss of his wings a half second before I skimmed right over his head. :o
My ammo expended, and more enemies nearby, it's time to run for home. I dive for speed and can see the individual buildings of Loos. And the archie exploding dangerously close to my face! But I manage to get back across the lines and even make it home. That's when I notice the rather large hole in my right wing and numerous bullet holes across various other areas. If I hadn't been flying a Camel, or if I had been unfamiliar with it's stalling limitations, I wouldn't have made it back. Somehow my three other wingmen made it back with only light damage to their machines. I was very surprised our 4v16 had turned out so well. Surely some of the enemy planes had pursued our top cover flight. Nevertheless, every pilot in my own four-flight was an Ace or seasoned veteran.
Mission claims for pilot Richard Rash was 3 planes, 2 ground targets, and 1 balloon. My best mission yet. ;D Two of the enemy Albatroses it took down, a DIII OAW and a DV, were Aces.
Damn, that was fun.
Limping back home in my Camel with holes in it:
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I received a promotion to 2nd Lieutenant and a Distinguished Service Order (D.S.O.) after the mission, my kills all being immediately confirmed.
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^ Nice AAR. Wish my rig could handle WOFF...
I wish my working copy of CFS3 would finally frickin' get here already!!
Very nice Nefaro! That's a mission you can be well proud of.
I would love to see how engaged your flight members were at the same time. I'm beginning to suspect that many/most of the bad guys go for the human player, but maybe that a bit of paranoia on my part.
The further adventures of 2nd Lt Richard Rash!
The brass enjoyed our bombing of the Loos Railyard so much, they sent us in to bomb it once again. I start to wonder if they have it in for us. By some miracle I had escaped the last foray without a scratch upon my person but I'm unsure how long my luck will hold. That area is crawling with Boche aeroplanes! I did so well on our last visit, they give me lead of 'B' flight, my first flight command. This could be bad.
On approach, we spot a number of flights in the distance about us, but we manage to dive on the Railyard and drop our 25lb Cooper bombs unmolested once again. Warehouses and buildings explode and I get to witness the fun this time around. Preparing to gain some altitude and circle back towards a nearby balloon with the flight in tow, I'm stricken with frustration. My whole flight continued straight onward! I must've lost them when I dove in for the bomb run. So I circle back and try to catch up to signal for them to rejoin me.
Hrmm... there's a large group of planes coming closer. Surely this is an intercepting Boche flight, right on time. Gotta give the Germans one thing - they are prompt in response.
I finally get close to my flight and signal for them to rejoin on me. They turn and head back towards our line, hodge podge. What a mess. You'd think they were fresh out of training! Perhaps my sudden promotion into the officers ranks caused some resentment? Again, I turn to follow. But the German machines are gaining on us, and I in the tail of our somewhat scattered formation.
I signal to the closest wingman to turn and engage. A couple of them turn and the three others turn left and I lose sight of them as I move my eyes to the closest enemy. My two nearby wingmen seem unsure but I dive onto the first plane in a head-on pass and a few bullets find their mark. Now I'm quite engaged and have at least three Albatros scouts on me. In a difficult whirling fight, I'm finding it hard to keep a steady bead on any one of them as they handle their aircraft better than most I've encountered. I only manage to get a couple short bursts into two of them before others are shooting at me, so I keep changing targets and nearly stall out twice. At one point my Camel was struck with a short burst, even while in a steep turn, and I felt the loss of some of my airspeed. My wingmen had long ago fled the scene. This is not good. I must relax my maneuvers or I will crash straight into the ground, my engine quite damaged. I glance back at what is now four or five aircraft on, or coming around on, my tail. Their noses are painted red.
Now attempting to weave & bob enough to prevent any solid steady hits, I try to get closer to no man's land. Bullets are flying all around and my wings are so damaged that I can barely keep the plane level. I nose down and fly between a couple small stands of trees while ruddering left and right. Maybe they won't risk shooting too long for fear of hitting a tree. Hopefully. Alas, my engine and controls shot, I decide to land. My wheels touch down and I immediately see a fence directly in front of me! Pulling up enough to help the initial bounce get me over the fence, I touch down again and blip for a bit, coming to a rest on a road right in front of a small copse of trees. Landing amid the trees saved me as the red-nosed planes on my tail pulled up earlier to avoid them. My engine is dead but I am miraculously unhurt despite the collection of bullet holes around my Sopwith.
I watch the circling planes above, wondering if they're going to make their final dives to finish me off. They circle once more and peel away. Whew! My lucky day once more! I even manage to run into friendly troops that evening. 2nd Lt Rash must have as many lives as a cat.
She doesn't fly anymore:
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My red-nosed friends circling about, keeping me company. At least I won't starve anytime soon.
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At least I did some damage to my pursuers!
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If only I had managed to get a one-on-one!
Lt. Dick Rash? Please say it aint so...
Quote from: Gusington on January 03, 2014, 06:36:30 PM
Lt. Dick Rash? Please say it aint so...
;D ;)
The least of his worries at the time, with half the Richthofen Circus on his tail along with the man himself.
(One of my bosses, a co-owner of a small company I worked for, swore she had a co-worker by that name years before. Hilarious. Poor bastard's parents must've hated him.)
Resolve weakening...breaking... >:(
Quote from: Toonces on January 03, 2014, 08:46:08 PM
Resolve weakening...breaking... >:(
No kidding. Those WWI aircraft are ubersexy.
How many WWI flight sims are out there now? What's the best? I don't even want to know the answer to that question.
OMG. Please tell me that you did NOT just post that!
Short version (and subject to different opinions):
Rise of Flight: best modeled aircraft, best flight modeling, highest fidelity aircraft, however you want to cage it. Very nice graphics. Scripted single player campaign and sort of dynamic single player beta campaign although it's more of a random mission generator than an underlying wargame like Falcon 4.0 or WOFF. Multiplayer capable. Depending on the version you buy can have several aircraft initially available with other aircraft, maps, etc. available for purchase as add-ons. However, it is free to try with two included aircraft.
Wings Over Flanders Fields: arguably the best single player experience with a robust dynamic campaign/war going on around you. Planes fly full missions all around you similar to Falcon 4.0 (vice RoF where enemies are spawned in while the mission is in progress). Has huge epic dogfights. Graphics are held back by the underlying M$ Combat Flight Simulator 3 engine on which it is based and requires a purchase of CFS3 to play. No multiplayer. Comes with a ton of planes.
First Eagles: Probably the most accessible of the three. Decent graphics based on Thirdwire engine. Nice selection of planes. Trademark Thirdwire campaign engine. No multiplayer. Certainly a reasonably priced sim.
The most common comparison is between RoF and OFF/WOFF with FE being a red-headed stepchild to the other two. RoF: what it's like to fly a WW1 aircraft. WOFF: what it's like to fight WW1 in the air.
The enthusiast really should own at least two of these sims, if not all three.
The real problem is that I could be playing old Over Flanders Fields right now, which was a perfectly fun game until WOFF came out. Now I feel like I'm missing out if I play the old version.
Complete bullshit, I know, but there it is. ::) So I spite myself by not playing either. Yeah, that'll show me.
Can someone explain how the installation works?
I have the CDs and it is looking for patch 3.1.
I downloaded the update exe. Does that mean I have to install CFS3 and patch it up first?
CD / DVD install not possible?
Never mind. Figured it out. I installed CFS3
Quote from: jomni on January 03, 2014, 11:22:32 PM
Can someone explain how the installation works?
I have the CDs and it is looking for patch 3.1.
I downloaded the EXE. Does that mean I have to install CFS3 and patch it up first?
CD / DVD install not possible?
The install depends on the version of CFS3 you own. If you have the DVD version, it is already patched to version 3.1 on the DVD. So when you install WOFF, you just need to put your CFS3 DVD in the drive for a few seconds during the install routine and then your all done. However, if you don't own the DVD version, then you must install the CD version of CFS (which is usually not the 3.1 version) and patch it to 3.1 before attempting to install WOFF.
Quote from: Toonces on January 03, 2014, 09:57:07 PM
The real problem is that I could be playing old Over Flanders Fields right now, which was a perfectly fun game until WOFF came out. Now I feel like I'm missing out if I play the old version.
Complete bullshit, I know, but there it is. ::) So I spite myself by not playing either. Yeah, that'll show me.
From all accounts of previous OFF owners, WOFF is a big improvement in all aspects. Aside from the superbly modelled war going on around you while you are flying, the flight & damage models and AI have reportedly been rebuilt from scratch and the latter can be especially interesting since each AI pilot's personality can create varied and unpredictable behavior in both enemy and friendly AI aircraft.
I have been drawn into WOFF like no other flight sim I've played in many years. Despite having to fiddle with my forced video card settings before finding a good spot for them, due to the overall demands of such a widely modelled campaign environment on a single CPU core, it has become my quick favorite. Sure, the flight modelling and damage modelling aren't there but the experiences I've had in the campaign missions have been fantastic even when brutal.
I just have some recommendations for new users on how to tweak the game for best efficiency:
1) Force AA, AF, and Vsync on in your video card control panel for the specific CFS3.exe. Most notably the Vsync as without it I was getting some occasional stuttering when looking around in-game. I personally use 4xAA, 16xAF, Vsync On and FXAA on my newer machine.
2) Force FXAA anti-aliasing method if you use Nvidia. It cuts down on the white jaggies around the airplane wires more than MSAA and Supersampling is just too demanding to bother with IMO. I don't think AMD cards can force FXAA or that they can use it well so use your own findings here between the three types.
3) If you want a general increase in framerates, first lower the Terrain Detail from 3 to 2. Then lower Cloud Details from 5 to either 4 or 3, if still needed. I don't think the quality drops, just the amount that is being drawn at once, so the detailed "player bubble" area drops just a bit with each.
Despite being based on an old game engine, the graphics are decent. The reason the game is a big resource hog is the sheer amount of stuff going on with the campaign while you're flying. In order to test how well your settings will run, fly campaign missions not quick battles. There is a much larger CPU load in campaign missions. They do have options included for lowering the campaign activity and such if your CPU is having problems keeping up without occasional stuttering. Mine has been working great since I forced Vsync on in the vid card settings, but was generally quite playable before that even.
If you enjoy flight sim campaigns, this is a must-have IMO. Those last two missions I flew earlier, the last resulting in my Richthofen encounter, just increases my addiction. All other sims I would've temporarily moved on from by now but this one is damn addictive. It also doesn't hurt that there are so many flyable aircraft included in the base game so I don't have to worry about DLC Soup or DRM activation or logins.
3)
EDIT: Forgot one more suggestion. Turn on 'Easy Outcomes - No Pilot Deaths', at least for awhile. You will die regularly until you get used to not only flying specific aircraft, but knowing when to fight or flee along with your wingmen and how to best do that. I also recommend it even for the most gung-ho permadeath enthusiasts just because there is a known issue where rookie AI pilots occasionally wing over into their wingmates when the flight makes a sharp turn to engage. It doesn't happen all the time but until that is fixed, I keep pilot deaths off as insurance against such a thing.
Hellshade put up some more vids featuring campaign gameplay recently. He makes it look easy!
I don't think I've read a single thread where folks were disappointed in the purchase, so this seems a safe bet.
I see myself buying this soon...probably this weekend. One last gaming purchase before I go into game buying hibernation for a while...or at least until Mount and Blade 2 comes out...
Is there a manual for this game?
I'm sure there is, but for someone like you (or me) a manual is not really required. The sim is extremely straightforward compared to what we're used to flying. 8)
AFAIK, there is no manual. The SimHQ forum, and perhaps the website, has a hotkey command pdf but I only tend to use maybe 1/3rd of the key commands listed therein. I first learned them just by writing down some of the stuff while I was setting mapping my HOTAS keys.
I left a list of the key commands I maped to my HOTAS buttons earlier in this thread, if anyone wants to check it out for reference to my most-used key commands in WOFF. There are only a few besides those, and those mostly to do with turning on & off extra interface indicators. There aren't many key commands at all compared to most sims. I just let the computer do the fuel mixture adjustments for me, which is the only extra aircraft management inputs to worry about besides stick, throttle, blip switch, and rudder.
The game menus are all pretty self explanatory and the sub-menu buttons all light up when you mouse over them. I found it all fairly self explanatory. One great thing about these Great War sims is that there isn't a lot of learning to be done other than getting experience in each type of plane via flying them.
I'm not sure whether they will create a manual or even a quick-start guide of sorts. I believe there are some additional flight command additions on the wishlist that we hope to get soon as a priority. I really want a Straight & Level Autopilot so I can use time compression when flying out of formation and off the assigned route. All in all, however, it is pretty straightforward for those familiar with flight sims and pretty bug free.
The only oddball thing I found was that in order to end your mission, you need to hit CTRL+Q and ENTER. There's no in-flight Escape menu for doing so.
Flying is no problem. I just want to know more about the campaign engine and how to perform well. What to tweak to make it enjoyable?
Ok so I'll ask some questions here.
1) Warp does not seem to work. How do I make it work?
2) Do you really fly the missions until complete? Like do you really loiter for the required amount of time? How do you know when you fulfill the objective?
3) Wingmen commands, is there such a thing?
4) After stalling and regaining control, my altitude keeps dropping (distance to ground counter). Is this a bug?
5) Quitting without landing leads to a bad result?
6) Any tips in achieving the mission objectives? I have never really finished a mission.
I have posted this before, and I think it's somewhat valid although it's apples and oranges.
fuggetaboutit!!!11!! 8)
Quote from: jomni on January 04, 2014, 04:21:13 AM
1) Warp does not seem to work. How do I make it work?
It doesn't. Since they redid whole swaths of the game, this was never added back in. They told us that since every pilot in the air, in campaign missions, make their own choices and such, a Warp feature would completely toss that dynamic out the window and they would have to resort to respawning all the flights every time the player used Warp. That's something they said they didn't want to do (aircraft spawning in the middle of the mission). We have to use Autopilot and time compression. Fortunately the objective is usually nearby. However, you don't always want to go where the Autopilot wants to take you. That's why some of us have requested a 'Straight & Level Autopilot' so that we can just point our planes on a course, hit this straight and level autopilot, and just time compress forward in the knowledge that it will keep heading in that direction and at that altitude just fine.
Since Autopilot is essentially the AI flying & fighting the plane, that is what will need to be added to. One of the devs stated they want to do this so hopefully we'll see it before long. Right now, if I'm doing something other than what the AI autopilot wants to do, I'm having to fly manually. The extra autopilot feature is my biggest 'Want'.
Quote2) Do you really fly the missions until complete? Like do you really loiter for the required amount of time? How do you know when you fulfill the objective?
I believe patrols usually have a minimum amount of time to circle in the vicinity of the objective. You can see it in the 'M' map screen, too, while you're airborne. On patrols I usually just set my view to the more distant external view (in the F1 view cycle) and keep an eye on the Tactical Display whilst letting the AI cruise along in formation on the patrol at 4x time compression, or 8x if far enough behind the lines to do so without much stuttering.
Until I see unknown planes showing up on my Tac, I just keep time compression going. If something comes close I hit normal time and decide when to take over from the AI autopilot if the flight leader decides to engage.
Quote3) Wingmen commands, is there such a thing?
A - Attack, R - Rejoin (stop ground attack), Ctrl+R - Return To Base, S - Split Formation, Ctrl+L - Land Here.
I don't think the formation commands work unless you're somewhat close to your wingmates, for obvious reasons. Also, the Attack and RTB commands are about the only ones worth using since Rejoin doesn't actually make your flight reform on you when enemy aircraft are about. At that point, it's every man fights or flees by his own decision.
There is a Hotkey pdf download for most commands on SimHQ, and probably on their website too. It has most of what you need listed.
Quote4) After stalling and regaining control, my altitude keeps dropping (distance to ground counter). Is this a bug?
Not really sure what you're saying. Is your speed still terribly low? Are you still facing below the horizon? Which "counter" are you reading? I've not seen anything odd about recovering from stalls, so I'm not sure what's going on.
Quote5) Quitting without landing leads to a bad result?
Nope! Use Ctrl+Q and quit whenever you want. If you didn't finish your patrol time (mentioned above), or never reached your assigned area, then it will consider the mission a failure. Take it lightly because mission success or failure in itself has little effect that I know of, although not sticking around to patrol very long kinda misses the point of a Patrol mission. The measure of success should be how many targets your flight killed and your losses.
AFAIK, such mission success has no bearing on the campaign as a whole. I'm pretty sure one of the devs stated that the war proceeds as it historically did no matter player mission successes. It only affects your squadrons future missions, your promotions and such. For instance, after a couple consecutive successful railway bombing runs, command kept assigning me more railyard bombing since I had been getting such good results at them. Those are the kinds of results you may see from the overall mission success. Not front lines magically moving because you finished a 30 minute patrol or anything like that. I'm also sure you get promoted faster, the more successful missions you do, but that can also be troublesome since I'm finding flight command to be a bit difficult keeping things organized in certain circumstances.
Quote6) Any tips in achieving the mission objectives? I have never really finished a mission.
You don't need to finish a mission. Just make sure you blow some sheeit up! ;D
If it's a bombing mission, try to score hits on the target. For patrols and intercepts you just need to reach the designated area and patrol it for the specified minimum time. If you're in autopilot, the AI will fly the formation back & forth between two points until either it has spotted enemies and begins to engage or the alotted patrol time runs out. In the latter case, the formation will turn home. Easy!
Don't sweat the mission success all that much.
So ends 2nd Lt Richard Rash - in a smoking pile next to the German trenches.
After shooting down his last Albatros in the middle of a 1v3 confrontation, his damaged Camel stalled & went into a spin during a climb whilst shooting at another Albatros. The very low altitude of the engagement ensured the extra nasty spin of the Camel prevented recovering in time.
He had some nice achievements while he was flying. :)
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I think I may either fly a late war SE5, a DVII, or try an early American start. From the couple of missions I flew an SE5, I was quite impressed with it's zoom ability and relative stability when firing. I'm kinda fearing flying the SPADs. While they're decent planes, the forward visibility is terrible with that big upper wing at what feels like almost brow-level.
There are still quite a few aircraft models I've not flown yet in the game.
Thanks Nefaro. I'll give it a whirl. Never realized autopilot is implemented. Not perfect but it may help a bit.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 04, 2014, 12:31:35 AM
Quote from: jomni on January 03, 2014, 11:22:32 PM
Can someone explain how the installation works?
I have the CDs and it is looking for patch 3.1.
I downloaded the EXE. Does that mean I have to install CFS3 and patch it up first?
CD / DVD install not possible?
The install depends on the version of CFS3 you own. If you have the DVD version, it is already patched to version 3.1 on the DVD. So when you install WOFF, you just need to put your CFS3 DVD in the drive for a few seconds during the install routine and then your all done. However, if you don't own the DVD version, then you must install the CD version of CFS (which is usually not the 3.1 version) and patch it to 3.1 before attempting to install WOFF.
Did the devs include the CFS3 patch as well? I have the CD version and have had no luck tracking down the patch- all the links I've found are dead, even the official M$ ones.
Quote from: Staggerwing on January 04, 2014, 08:20:09 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 04, 2014, 12:31:35 AM
Quote from: jomni on January 03, 2014, 11:22:32 PM
Can someone explain how the installation works?
I have the CDs and it is looking for patch 3.1.
I downloaded the EXE. Does that mean I have to install CFS3 and patch it up first?
CD / DVD install not possible?
The install depends on the version of CFS3 you own. If you have the DVD version, it is already patched to version 3.1 on the DVD. So when you install WOFF, you just need to put your CFS3 DVD in the drive for a few seconds during the install routine and then your all done. However, if you don't own the DVD version, then you must install the CD version of CFS (which is usually not the 3.1 version) and patch it to 3.1 before attempting to install WOFF.
Did the devs include the CFS3 patch as well? I have the CD version and have had no luck tracking down the patch- all the links I've found are dead, even the official M$ ones.
Here is a link where you can get them...does not come with the game, but the devs posted this.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3867947/CFS3_3_1_and_3_1a_Patches#Post3867947
OK finally got my DVD of CFS3 today and this new one worked :)
I was going to patch WOFF up to v1.9 but my antivirus (Norton) detected a threat in the patch! Anyone else have that problem?
Patch 1.10 is out, haven't any issues with any virus issues.
Quote from: Gusington on January 04, 2014, 05:43:23 PM
I was going to patch WOFF up to v1.9 but my antivirus (Norton) detected a threat in the patch! Anyone else have that problem?
I don't have that problem because I don't use overzealous Norton. :P
There is no virus in the update. It's Norton being a douche per usual. When you gonna drop that zero and get with a hero? :D
HA well alrighty then. I thought I did drop the zero when I ditched McCaffee!
Will try 1.10...thanks Grim!
Switch to Avast! It's free, it doesn't conflict with games (it even has a game mode option so it uses minimal memory and won't pop up when you're playing), it's got an exclamation point in its name, and it's free. Also, it's free.
But... is it free?
Patches aside, where do you all recommend to begin with WOFF? Quick missions?
Quote from: Gusington on January 04, 2014, 10:48:54 PM
Patches aside, where do you all recommend to begin with WOFF? Quick missions?
I never bothered starting a quick mission. Went straight to campaign.
It also helps playing campaign missions so you have a reference on where to put your game settings. Campaign missions are much more demanding on your computer.
I'll reiterate some suggestions here:
Force your AA, AF, and Vsync settings in your video card's software for CFS3.exe. You get better results than using the in-game settings.
Also enable FXAA in your vid card software if you have an Nvidia card as that will clear out some extra white jaggies on wing wires. Otherwise you have to turn on Supersampling to do so and that is wayy more demanding.
Turn the Terrain setting level lower than the default 3 (I use 2) if you still get some stuttering when flying in a campaign mission. Most of the time it will be fine but you may get some when over no man's land with battles raging on the ground and the air nearby.
Select Easy Outcomes - No Pilot Death in the game settings (aka "the Workshop"). If nothing else, it will save you the time it takes to create new pilots all the time, because you will die regularly until you get some flying experience in WOFF. I also keep it on due to the occasional wingmate colliding with me, but now I still play "dead is dead" when my pilots die in combat or legitimate crashes.
If you fly early war missions, you'll be doing more flying about with less combat. It's the nature of the earlier air war - recon missions. The later war years is when the dogfights start getting bigger and you end up running into enemies all the time. Also, the first few missions you fly in a campaign are Orientation flights of sorts, so your flight leader isn't too keen on getting into a scrap while babysitting you nuggets. So don't be surprised if he doesn't engage sighted enemies the first few patrols.
Turn on your Tactical Display (Shift+T) for better situational awareness. There are also various label overlays for distant aircraft but I find that the Tac display does an excellent job without having to gunk up the rest of the screen. It also has a text display below it with some helpful info. You can also turn on extra HUD gauges with F5 and cycle through each one with some other keys. Lots of UI options, including being able to drag any of these extra UI gadgets around by click & drag with the mouse. Get familiar with the key commands if you want to turn a bunch of UI stuff on or off to your liking.
Keep in mind that each AI pilot has a personality and varying abilities. Some will run away first chance they get while others will follow you all the way home in order to take some shots at you. Likewise some flight leaders will bug out if they spot an enemy flight they don't like while others will dive on a group at 1v3 odds just because you have the altitude advantage.
A definite positive point about WOFF's campaign is that you will learn how to better survive over time, just by flying and experiencing what's going on around you. For quite awhile I would die approximately every four or five missions until I learned not only the limits of my airplane but especially how to decide when & where to engage , when to run and to try staying with my flight as much as possible so as not to get ganged upon all alone. It just takes experience to get good, just like anything else.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on January 04, 2014, 08:08:21 PM
Switch to Avast! It's free, it doesn't conflict with games (it even has a game mode option so it uses minimal memory and won't pop up when you're playing), it's got an exclamation point in its name, and it's free. Also, it's free.
This.
There was reportedly an Avast false positive with the vanilla installer on release but I never experienced it. *shrug* Maybe Avast patched it so quickly I didn't have it downloaded before it was fixed.
Norton's heuristics are notorious baby killers.
Thanks Nefaro, I saved your above list as a Notepad file for reference :)
Rick Rawlings left a great overview/review of the game and how it works, with pic references:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3890065/User_Reviews_Thread#Post3890065
It gives more information than a simple feature list could. ;)
Wow he just posted that today? He must have read my mind :)
Patch v1.11 is out.
Some new stuff in it too!
9 Jan 2013
V1.11 4201
1) New Content added: Addtional German Squads.
• 8 New German Mixed fighter/2 Seater squads; FA(A) 226, FA(A) 241, FA(A) 257, FA(A) 258, FA(A) 266, FA(A) 272, FA(A) 273, FA(A) 277, FA(A) 281
• 5 New German fighter squadrons; Jasta 58, Jasta 59, Jasta 69, Jasta 67, Jasta 68
2) Fixed a Withdrawn Machines announcement bug
3) New Feature: with HUD (F5) and TAC (Shift+T) turned off there was no definitive visual indication of pilot status (aural clues aside)
• The sim can now display all the Urgent Messages (Shift+D Toggle On/Off) top-centre when TAC Instructor is hidden/off
• New Instructor Urgent Message "Pilot health - xx%"
• Rendered continuously once pilot health less than 100%
Note: The top-centre Shift + D display is used only when the TAC (Shift+T) Instructor is hidden.
4) AI was not firing fixed guns intermittently - fixed.
5) Player can jam a gun and hand it to the AI - AI can now unjam guns under its control.
6) Z key display now shows TAS and GS (ground speed). Formerly it showed only GS but called it TAS.
7) New incoming Ace Craft are now announced to Player.
8 ) Transfer Missions: user can no longer airstart and a message is displayed telling player why
9) Promotion rate slowed down.
10) New Feature: Implementation of Injury Visual effects and Over G Visual effects, and associated settings in workshops!
11) New Feature: Random Dossier Photo selection button added for when enlisting.
12) Fixed Albatros D.III, D.III OAW and D.III early, and Rumpler CIV aircraft issue that could affect some effects or sounds from playing when damaged.
Thanks, have to download that this weekend. Is there an email notification option for WOFF patches offered at the website?
Quote from: Gusington on January 10, 2014, 08:40:10 AM
Thanks, have to download that this weekend. Is there an email notification option for WOFF patches offered at the website?
Dunno if there's an email notification. They've been udpating it pretty quickly so I've just been checking the forum and website every day before firing it up. I'll try to keep you guys informed of the new ones while I'm still doing so.
edit:
For those of you who want to enable SweetFX for WOFF, there is a thread here with one player's SweetFX preset file and the following is the steps to take in order to get it all up and running with the latest version. **
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3891475/Sweet_FX_settings#Post3891475
MajorMagee's excellent install guide:
Quote from: MajorMagee
Here's how I did my SweetFX install:
1. Download the latest converter files from here http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3881675/DirectX_8_to_9_converter_updat#Post3881675 and install the d3d8.dll and d3d8.ini files where your cfs3.exe file is. This can be done for each install of CFS3 you may have.
2. Edit the ini file to NoMultisampling=1 for compatibility with SweetFX.**
3. Run CFS3Config.exe and make sure you choose your proper display options selection again (i.e. it may show 800 x 600 x 16).
4. Download FlightFX from here http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34103 and install it on your computer.
5. Since version 1.0 of Flight FX does not have latest version (1.5.1) of Sweet FX included you need to download that from here http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=381912 and extract all of it to the FX folder where you have Flight FX installed. Let it overwrite any of the files that may have the same names as what FlightFX already had.
6. Now you can run Flight FX and click on Register New Game at the bottom left. It will open a dialog box where you'll navigate it to your cfs3.exe file. That will populate the paths at the top right of Flight FX for you.
7. Click on Enable Sweet FX and it will copy most of the needed files into your CFS3 install. It misses SweetFX_compatibility_settings.txt which is in the Flight FX / FX / SweetFX folder and needs to be manually copied into the matching one Flight FX created in your CFS3 directory.
8. Select the FX Preset you want to use from the pull down list. The files behind this list are located in the Flight FX / FX / SweetFX / Presets folder. They are just text files so you can create new presets manually by cut and past if you like. Make a back-up copy of any of your favorites because it is all too easy to overwrite them by mistake in Flight FX.
That is really all there is to it. At this point you can edit any of the settings under the FX Settings tab and the effect will be immediate.
By default the Scroll Lock key will toggle the shader effects on and off.
The Print Screen Key will place a screenshot in your CFS3 root directory (This overrules CFS3 that normally wants to save screenshots in the CFS3 folder under My Documents).
If you uncheck the Enable SweetFX box in Flight FX it will uninstall SweetFX (but not the D3D8 and SweetFX_compatibility_settings files you did manually) and you're back to normal.
**Note that the "NoMultiSampling=1" in step #2 is conditional. If you force extra anti-aliasing stuff like that in your card settings (I do), then you want to leave that at 0.
New plane addon available now....not sure how I feel about the pricing yet, seems like each addon is $25.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3895753/Addon_Pack_1_Fokker_Scourge_No#Post3895753
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 15, 2014, 06:00:49 PM
New plane addon available now....not sure how I feel about the pricing yet, seems like each addon is $25.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3895753/Addon_Pack_1_Fokker_Scourge_No#Post3895753
Wonder what they're doing next.
I'm not into the early war stuff like some of you, so this isn't a 'must have' for me. I
did buy the big skin pack awhile back, though.
Quote from: Nefaro on January 16, 2014, 03:23:07 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 15, 2014, 06:00:49 PM
New plane addon available now....not sure how I feel about the pricing yet, seems like each addon is $25.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3895753/Addon_Pack_1_Fokker_Scourge_No#Post3895753
Wonder what they're doing next.
I'm not into the early war stuff like some of you, so this isn't a 'must have' for me. I did buy the big skin pack awhile back, though.
I haven't picked up any of the additional content yet....although this could get expensive if it keeps up at this rate.....but in the end, the cost is what it is, just a matter of each person deciding for themselves if worth it.......just had some hope they would have a little different model than ROF, where I was just unable to keep up with all the additional content and ultimately soured my experience with it.
@Nefaro -- does SweetFX increase/decrease FPS?? Thx...
Can't even survive a mission or two. Time to turn off pilot death. :(
Quote from: steve58 on January 16, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
@Nefaro -- does SweetFX increase/decrease FPS?? Thx...
The dx8-to-dx9 Converter did a bit for me. If anything, SweetFX may have lowered it a tad after that, but I don't think it was terribly noticeable. At the moment, I removed SweetFX but I left the Converter in.
The last game update had some performance improvements in it. Those were also noticeable. I'll probably just wipe the program and do a fresh install with the latest Converter and patch because my screenshot hotkeys aren't working anymore in the vanilla game (or the SweetFX one).
I may just have to finally pick this up tomorrow. I'm in a flight sim kind of mood lately. 8)
Lately? As in the last 20 years?
Quote from: Gusington on January 17, 2014, 08:47:12 AM
Lately? As in the last 20 years?
Gus, haven't heard much since you got the game...have you played it yet? Any thoughts? There is a new 1.12 patch out so make sure to get that before you start if you haven't already.
I have not...I've just been keeping up with the patches! I know this will require some serious sit down and play time to get good at, and I don't really have it right now. But it is most definitely the next game I am going to learn, so...maybe in 2-3 weeks. I don't want to get frustrated with it.
Also there was a big WWI modded release (that I will keep nameless) that really disappointed me, and that wound is still kinda fresh :/ I love the era and although it doesn't sound like I will be, I don't want to be disappointed again.
Quote from: Gusington on January 17, 2014, 11:55:56 AM
I have not...I've just been keeping up with the patches! I know this will require some serious sit down and play time to get good at, and I don't really have it right now. But it is most definitely the next game I am going to learn, so...maybe in 2-3 weeks. I don't want to get frustrated with it.
Also there was a big WWI modded release (that I will keep nameless) that really disappointed me, and that wound is still kinda fresh :/ I love the era and although it doesn't sound like I will be, I don't want to be disappointed again.
Gotcha...hopefully at some point you get a chance to try it out with the new joystick you bought....
Diving deep into Rome 2, then WOFF. I know there are new releases lurking that I have forgotten about, but those are the big two right now.
Quote from: Nefaro on January 17, 2014, 01:37:09 AM
Quote from: steve58 on January 16, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
@Nefaro -- does SweetFX increase/decrease FPS?? Thx...
The dx8-to-dx9 Converter did a bit for me. If anything, SweetFX may have lowered it a tad after that, but I don't think it was terribly noticeable. At the moment, I removed SweetFX but I left the Converter in.
The last game update had some performance improvements in it. Those were also noticeable. I'll probably just wipe the program and do a fresh install with the latest Converter and patch because my screenshot hotkeys aren't working anymore in the vanilla game (or the SweetFX one).
Thanks Nefaro, but I think this thread about 3rd party mods (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3897468/WARNING_NOTE_3rd_Party_Mods_ma#Post3897468) over at SimHQ puts the nail in the coffin for me for WOFF, at least until I can upgrade my rig :-\
Some various screenshots from the past week or two. The last one I grabbed while cycling through objects with the "experimental" observation cam they added. It's a Brit tank that got shelled to hell, along with a squad of dead infantry in front of it. Someone posted better 'action' shots of such ground unit carnage on the SimHQ forum that are also worth a look.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg594%2F8499%2Fi9b8.jpg&hash=2157eb9888f22b56d48b136c16f73fa1bdfe6d8b)
You can see where the shelled-out husk of the front lines spring from the green farmland in this one.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg46%2F3139%2F3qst.jpg&hash=06331343e369866aa517cfcf1dd427cc7ce6a3d3)
In the following screenshot, my wingman had been hit on the other side of the lines and managed to turn tail and fly all the way back to a friendly base but he had three enemy Fokker DrIs follow him all the way home readying to pounce on him before he landed. I was about a mile and a half behind them, trying to catch up and save him. Unfortunately they shot him down before I arrived but I did manage to send two of the black DrIs into the dirt right next to our 'drome. After I downed the first one, the other two ran for home - I caught up to one of them and forced him into a dogfight. 8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg163%2F6003%2Fquzg.jpg&hash=d5ef8e8fe2762799fa4864f3f9083cdcfcb73d26)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg534%2F7075%2Fooqu.jpg&hash=1d8d1dd3fc3e1cefab1c5562908a6a863cc352d8)
I had SweetFx running on the first three of these and Aris' Cloud Mod in everything. I think the thing that it broke in the game was my screenshot key. When I removed SweetFX, the stock screenshot hotkey doesn't work anymore. Time for a re-install I suppose.
Cool tank!
Patch 1.13 released, seems mostly bug fixes.
Patch 1.14 released.
23 Jan 2014
V1.14h 4206
1) Improved Run Time Map implemented.
2) Addon Packs Version Number now displayed in workshops.
3) Claims 'aircraft possibles' list now includes a year either side of aircraft exit/entry dates for early usage in top squads and for poor squads using older craft types.
4) Workshops layout neatened and categorised.
5) New Feature: Run Time Map size setting in workshops implemented.
6) New Feature: Labels Transition Distance settings in workshops implemented.
7) New Feature: 'Dot Label' maximum render distance setting in workshops implemented - Long range (Ca 20km) or Limited to Current TAC range (whether TAC is visible or not).
Note this a 'Dot Label' and not to be confused with the aircraft model lowest level 'dot' and thus aircraft spotting distances.
8) Morane Top speed reduced.
9) Camel Low Lod model improved.
10) New Feature: Urgent Messages - low fuel level warnings implemented (remember you can toggle messages Shift+D).
11) Nieuport24Bis was not allocated squadron default skin in some squads - fixed.
12) Mission Target circle of 'successful mission damage radius' increased - Balloons etc should now be correctly reported by the CO as destroyed if they were the target etc.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 24, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
8) Morane Top speed reduced.
Hooray, now we can actually have a real "Fokker Scourge"!
Gotta hand it to OBD, they are listening to their fans and making reasonable changes from our requests.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on January 25, 2014, 09:49:01 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 24, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
8) Morane Top speed reduced.
Hooray, now we can actually have a real "Fokker Scourge"!
Gotta hand it to OBD, they are listening to their fans and making reasonable changes from our requests.
Indeed. The patches are addressing even small requests I've had and then some.
I just recently posted about my experiences flying the Albatross DV (Uprated). I have serious concerns about it's rudder modelling because the plane will go into an uncontrolled spin even with a small amount of rudder while in a banking turn. I tried making a tight coordinated turn in a mission the other night, just like I do with any other aircraft model in the game, and the thing would instantly roll over into a stalled spin as soon as I use rudder while using elevator. After having that happen four times end-to-end, I figured it was time to report it. The other Albatross scouts do this too, to some extent, but that was the worst.
So be warned - if you're flying an Albatross, be very careful about using the rudder. There have been a number of people bring up the subject, and I think something is amiss with it's flight model in that respect, so it will probably be addressed in short order.
Patch 1.15 was just released this afternoon. 8)
Some great additions and fixes. I'm glad they addressed the Albatros FM so quick and limited the range of the "Dot only" labels to proper visual ranges. So we can turn on those Dots that take the place of more distant aircraft (to better see them) but not be able to see everything within a 20nm radius. :)
Just as I had been doing so well in my Escadrille 3 campaign flying a SPAD VII, I may have to start up a new Albatros campaign right in the middle of it to check out the adjustments. I imagine AI Albatros pilots will be a bit better now that their planes aren't stalling so easily, too! :-*
and another patch....
3 Feb 2014
Ver 1.16a 4207
1) Logs and Debrief now reflect the 3rdParty/Extended mission type description.
2) New 3rd Party Mission selection area was "showing through" the key chart if displayed - fixed.
3) Bug introduced in 1.15 - player cannot die in campaign - fixed
4) RNAS10 database error - caused an error shown on joining RNAS10 as a pilot at earliest start date - fixed.
5) Se5 and all variants Exhaust Emitter locations revised. Engine starting smoke and fumes will show from correct location now.
Aaaaaand 1.17. :)
I'm looking forward to them getting the extra shadow effects implemented at some point. 8) Hopefully the hit isn't too noticeable.
Man, this sim is fantastic. Good call, guys.
Quote from: Toonces on February 22, 2014, 11:05:49 PM
Man, this sim is fantastic. Good call, guys.
Well worth the entry price.
See! ;)
Those are some nice looking screenies. The question I have is this: Do the aircraft feel "right" like in RoF? I know it uses the ancient CFS engine, just wondering if they can create truly great flight models with such an old engine.
Quote from: Swatter on February 23, 2014, 10:43:01 PM
Those are some nice looking screenies. The question I have is this: Do the aircraft feel "right" like in RoF? I know it uses the ancient CFS engine, just wondering if they can create truly great flight models with such an old engine.
The flight models aren't as detailed as ROF's. I don't think any other flight sim has such individually detailed FMs, to be fair.
However, each aircraft still feels different. Some of them are also more fragile when it comes to diving speeds and G-forces. I'm scared to even do a quick Split-S in a Nieuport unless I start off slow and blip the whole way through. Damn things rip wings off like nobody's business. Gotta watch how much you pull on them in turns, too. Once the wings start making creaking sounds, most airplanes are okay if you hold it there but you gotta let off in the Bebes or *snap*. ROF's Nieups are a bit sturdier, for example.
So each aircraft still has it's own personality. You don't wanna fly the same models like you do in ROF, though, or you can get dead. Some of the planes with in-line engines also seem to be moodier in turns, in WOFF. Oddly enough, it takes a little extra opposite rudder work to keep a SPAD VII from nosing over into a quick spin when turning to the right, although I believe this isn't as pronounced since a recent patch that updated their engine horsepower.
In short, you'll have to learn WOFF's flight model for each plane, and their limitations. Don't go in thinking you can fly them just like you do in ROF. ;)
Not meaning to turn this into a "WOFF vs. ROF" thread, but I am curious -- for those of you who have played both, is WOFF a ROF-killer, or is it more of a 'each has strengths and weaknesses' situation?
I've poured a fair bit of coin into ROF buying the different planes etc., and in fairness I have not put in enough time to form a solid opinion. But I have to say that ROF has not really drawn me in yet. Is the SP / Career experience just that much better in WOFF, as I keep hearing?
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 24, 2014, 02:09:19 PM
Is the SP / Career experience just that much better in WOFF, as I keep hearing?
Yes.
ROF is great because all the little details regarding the individual aircraft is modelled well. But it's single-player campaign is lacking because it's just randomly generated missions with aircraft spawning and nothing going on outside your "bubble". WOFF's campaign has AI units, both on the ground and in the air, fighting it out in a whole region while you're flying your missions through it. The environment feels much more alive.
Enhanced career sounds very appealing -- but given the $ I've sunk into ROF, I should probably spend more time with it before I jump ship for WOFF --
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 24, 2014, 08:27:34 PM
Enhanced career sounds very appealing -- but given the $ I've sunk into ROF, I should probably spend more time with it before I jump ship for WOFF --
Always room for more spending:)
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 24, 2014, 08:43:25 PM
Always room for more spending:)
ain't that the truth.
still, the ~$70 price-tag for WOFF (+MSFS3) is high enough to give me the willpower to hold off, for now -- esp. since ROF w/ the many aircraft add-ons was hardly cheap --
still, the good word of mouth for WOFF in this thread and elsewhere means I'll probably cave at some point --
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 24, 2014, 08:51:24 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 24, 2014, 08:43:25 PM
Always room for more spending:)
ain't that the truth.
still, the ~$70 price-tag for WOFF (+MSFS3) is high enough to give me the willpower to hold off, for now -- esp. since ROF w/ the many aircraft add-ons was hardly cheap --
still, the good word of mouth for WOFF in this thread and elsewhere means I'll probably cave at some point --
Yep, that is understandable.....I initially invested in ROF, but gave up trying to keep up with all the planes. Haven't had much time for WOFF lately, but that single player campaign was the best I have seen in a long time. Just wish I was better at flight sims(
I did play some RoF this weekend in between WOFF missions.
RoF looks way, way better. And, I don't know how to quantify it, but RoF just "feels" more like flying. Between the water droplets on the goggles going through clouds, to the crisper aircraft textures, the more intiutive feeling of flight, and the view out of the cockpit, RoF is a great flying experience.
However, WOFF just pisses on RoF in the single player campaign. Also, it comes with so much content out of the box that you truly get your money's worth from the get go. The entire Western Front is mapped out with 55 aircraft to fly, from the EIII all the way through the 1918 birds. The campaign selection screen just oozes possibilities, fighter or bomber, with squadron, region, plane, era, it's all selectable. And when you select a squadron, you'll have a historic roster and the CO's plane will be leading you with the appropriate skin...it's just amazing how much detail has gone into that part of the game.
I bought the base game and skin pack, download only. That's about $85. I'd say that the base game is underpriced for what you get, and with the skin pack it's still a very good value. Up to $100 would be very fair, IMO. I've barely scratched the surface of the game and I've already logged about 25 hours of flying time.
And, in case you're wondering, I was in the mood for some multiplayer which is why I booted up RoF. I logged onto the most populated server- about 13 people on. Flew around for 15 minutes, finally came across a bomber and shot it down, and then landed and logged off. Unless more people are online, those maps are way too big for 6 people per side. What a waste of a great game.
Wow -- a shame there are so few RoF online flyers. I'm still too timid to get online with RoF or CloD, so SP is generally where it's at for me.
I fired up RoF for the first time in a while last night, although crying infant 'round 11PM cut short my Albatross sortie. It is a beautiful game, no question, and very immersive. I've been fiddling with the Career beta mode, and actuality find it pretty compelling -- but that may be because I don't know what I"m missing with WOFF.
...re: Toonce's avatar -- RIP Egon Spangler :'(...
I can't believe there are so few people online for RoF...
Patch 1.19 is out for WOFF with some small fixes.
I enjoyed ROF but never played it online. Each aircraft really takes a lot of practice to be able to fly properly in combat so there's a time investment for familiarity needed. Otherwise I'd feel rather worthless.
I also don't look forward to searching around for a server that has some of the difficulty settings I prefer. I really don't want to jack with the fuel mixture or toggling the radiator open/closed. That engine management minutae just isn't fun and not something I want to dawdle with in a combat sim. I'm sure the server rulesets vary quite a bit so it'd probably be some digging before I found one at about my preference. I still plan on doing it sometime but my flight simming habits have only been to jump right in without a fuss so single-player has kept me content and WOFF's campaign & variable AI pilot behaviors make it feel like a living world.
Quote from: Nefaro on February 25, 2014, 02:16:24 PM
PI really don't want to jack with the fuel mixture or toggling the radiator open/closed. That engine management minutae just isn't fun and not something I want to dawdle with in a combat sim.
Engine management really is a b*tch ... glad to hear someone else thinks so!
As a relative newcomer to combat flight sims, I've taken the 'baptism in fire' approach to RoF and CloD -- diving in with 'full real' settings in hopes of avoiding forming bad habits.
But engine management continues to be my stumbling block (...in addition to spotting and situational awareness.... full disclosure: i'm not a very talented pilot).
I think I may try to make things easier by turning some of the hardcore engine settings off.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 25, 2014, 02:49:40 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on February 25, 2014, 02:16:24 PM
PI really don't want to jack with the fuel mixture or toggling the radiator open/closed. That engine management minutae just isn't fun and not something I want to dawdle with in a combat sim.
Engine management really is a b*tch ... glad to hear someone else thinks so!
As a relative newcomer to combat flight sims, I've taken the 'baptism in fire' approach to RoF and CloD -- diving in with 'full real' settings in hopes of avoiding forming bad habits.
But engine management continues to be my stumbling block (...in addition to spotting and situational awareness.... full disclosure: i'm not a very talented pilot).
I think I may try to make things easier by turning some of the hardcore engine settings off.
To make it worse, things such as adjusting the mixture can be even more of a pain in the ass because you kinda need an extra throttle axis to properly model it. Otherwise you're jockeying buttons or keys for what is really an extra slider lever, complicating things more than they should be.
WOFF is on sale this weekend! $10 off base game only.
http://www.overflandersfields.com/BuyNow.html
Interesting, don't remember OFF going on sale so soon after its release. Wish I could take advantage of it, but don't think my current rig would run it very well and I'm still eyeing the new nVidia GTX750Ti cards...
Quote from: Nefaro on February 25, 2014, 03:28:06 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 25, 2014, 02:49:40 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on February 25, 2014, 02:16:24 PM
PI really don't want to jack with the fuel mixture or toggling the radiator open/closed. That engine management minutae just isn't fun and not something I want to dawdle with in a combat sim.
Engine management really is a b*tch ... glad to hear someone else thinks so!
As a relative newcomer to combat flight sims, I've taken the 'baptism in fire' approach to RoF and CloD -- diving in with 'full real' settings in hopes of avoiding forming bad habits.
But engine management continues to be my stumbling block (...in addition to spotting and situational awareness.... full disclosure: i'm not a very talented pilot).
I think I may try to make things easier by turning some of the hardcore engine settings off.
To make it worse, things such as adjusting the mixture can be even more of a pain in the ass because you kinda need an extra throttle axis to properly model it. Otherwise you're jockeying buttons or keys for what is really an extra slider lever, complicating things more than they should be.
What you really "need" is a throttle quadrant, then it all becomes pretty simple, especially for RoF. I fully appreciate that not everyone wants to splash out for a sideline part of their hobby, both in terms of cash and time. I do, however, think that to get the best out of "proper" combat flightsims you do need extra gear (specially head-tracking). Each time I've added something to my pooter (Freetrack, quadrant, pedals) it has improved the experience of virtual flying.
It is a shame that RoF MP is so under-populated. For some reason the situation is slightly better in Europe than the US - there are often 20-30 people on one of the "realism" servers and the same number on one of the "air quake" servers of an evening here. Not huge numbers, but enough to have a game.
Breaking into MP is tough, I agree. Paradoxically I would suggest starting with a "realism" server once you're happy with the controls. The reason I suggest this is that you have more time to find your feet than in the quick-fire dogfight servers. I fully agree that it can be dull. I actually enjoy just pootling about enjoying the scenery, but with the constant frisson that you might wander into a fight. Those fights nearly always end with me getting shot down (sometimes there isn't even a fight per se) and then I usually log off.
Doesn't sound like much fun I know, but I find RoF to have the best sense of a virtual space and time of any game I've played - I love just being "in" that world. I also think that the feeling that you could get shot down at any moment by an actual person gives a better sense of the real thing than you can get from playing against the computer. Those are the reasons I play exclusively MP in RoF. My K/D must be about 1/10, so it's certainly not about me being an ace or racking up stats!
Quote from: Father Ted on March 08, 2014, 06:05:50 AM
Breaking into MP is tough, I agree. Paradoxically I would suggest starting with a "realism" server once you're happy with the controls. The reason I suggest this is that you have more time to find your feet than in the quick-fire dogfight servers. I fully agree that it can be dull. I actually enjoy just pootling about enjoying the scenery, but with the constant frisson that you might wander into a fight. Those fights nearly always end with me getting shot down (sometimes there isn't even a fight per se) and then I usually log off.
Doesn't sound like much fun I know, but I find RoF to have the best sense of a virtual space and time of any game I've played - I love just being "in" that world. I also think that the feeling that you could get shot down at any moment by an actual person gives a better sense of the real thing than you can get from playing against the computer. Those are the reasons I play exclusively MP in RoF. My K/D must be about 1/10, so it's certainly not about me being an ace or racking up stats!
ROF multi-player has always sounded enticing. Especially the hosts with open air to fly around in.
As I may have mentioned, I've not bothered trying it out yet because most of the regular hardcore pilots are probably flying on servers with engine management turned on. After spending about $200 on flight sim gear last year, I don't want to buy another throttle and jockeying such things just isn't high on my 'fun' list anyway. I'd feel like I was being forced to buy an extra piece of equipment for something I'm more than happy to turn off in the settings anyway. ;)
Just saw this in my inbox.
WOFF price reduced to $50.Quote
Our special offer last month was very popular so we have decided to make that offer a permanent one!
If you just missed out on the offer, now you can get your copy of WOFF from $49.99* (digital download) too. Considering the huge amount of content, long playability, comprehensive AI and historical detail it's well worth adding to your collection.
http://www.overflandersfields.com/BuyNow.html
Also looks like a new release coming out today:
Quote
Update V1.20 will be released today.
We have added various items after feedback from WOFF pilots out there.
For example we have increased the 2-seater OOB (Order of Battle) weightings so you should see more 2-seaters in the air compared to fighters!
We have also adjusted some flight models, especially Albatros fighter series so they should be a little more stable.
Formation flying in the Sopwith Triplane - now formation flying should be better.
There are also some improvements and fixes to some models and to WOFF.
Keep an eye on the forum and website for when this is available.
There are more updates in the pipeline hopefully to be released soon.
*sigh* really wish my rig could run this puppy :(
Quote from: Nefaro on December 09, 2013, 09:58:52 AM
Quote from: Gusington on December 09, 2013, 08:11:08 AM
That, and its under 10.00 almost everywhere.
My copy of CFS3 arrived from Amazon pretty quickly, last week. It was $5 and shipping was negligible since I ordered it was some other stuff.
I figured that I'd toss it into my cart in order to be prepared. Not sure if I'll get WOFF on day one - mostly because I've rarely been playing computer games lately. But that may push me.
What kind of authentication does it use? I rather not re-activate my old PC that had 7 CD/DVD drives in it.
Quote from: Redwolf on April 07, 2014, 10:48:14 AM
What kind of authentication does it use? I rather not re-activate my old PC that had 7 CD/DVD drives in it.
Authentication?
WOFF is DRM-free IIRC. You just need a copy of Combat Flight Simulator 3 installed before you install WOFF.
Saw the v1.2 patch update today. Will have to continue flying some more, especially in the Albatros since it's flight model was tweaked a bit further in this patch.
Quote from: Nefaro on April 07, 2014, 12:46:50 PM
Quote from: Redwolf on April 07, 2014, 10:48:14 AM
What kind of authentication does it use? I rather not re-activate my old PC that had 7 CD/DVD drives in it.
Authentication?
WOFF is DRM-free IIRC. You just need a copy of Combat Flight Simulator 3 installed before you install WOFF.
Saw the v1.2 patch update today. Will have to continue flying some more, especially in the Albatros since it's flight model was tweaked a bit further in this patch.
Yes, what I am asking is whether CFS3 needs a CD-check.
^If you have a CD version of CFS3, yes, the CD must be in the CD drive for WOFF to run. If you have the DVD version of CFS3, WOFF only needs it when the game is installed.
Quote from: steve58 on April 07, 2014, 02:32:36 PM
^If you have a CD version of CFS3, yes, the CD must be in the CD drive for WOFF to run. If you have the DVD version of CFS3, WOFF only needs it when the game is installed.
Incorrect.
I bought the jewel case CD version of CFS3. I
do not need it in the drive to play WOFF.
I believe in order to do so, you need to have installed CFS3 onto your hard drive before installing WOFF. Whereas if you have the later DVD version, you may be able to install WOFF just by putting the disk into the drive while it's doing so. Not sure about the latter but I do know that I've not used the CFS3 CD in the drive while playing WOFF. ;)
I believe CFS3 was one of those games where you could install everything or just some of the files to your HD.
I installed everything and have never been asked for the CD.
Quote from: Nefaro on April 07, 2014, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: steve58 on April 07, 2014, 02:32:36 PM
^If you have a CD version of CFS3, yes, the CD must be in the CD drive for WOFF to run. If you have the DVD version of CFS3, WOFF only needs it when the game is installed.
Incorrect.
I bought the jewel case CD version of CFS3. I do not need it in the drive to play WOFF.
I believe in order to do so, you need to have installed CFS3 onto your hard drive before installing WOFF. Whereas if you have the later DVD version, you may be able to install WOFF just by putting the disk into the drive while it's doing so. Not sure about the latter but I do know that I've not used the CFS3 CD in the drive while playing WOFF. ;)
:-[ Sorry, I thought I read it was the same as OFF. Was it that way at release or was the CFS3 CD check removed in one of the updates?
To be honest, I don't remember.
It was that way at release AFAIK.
I had forgotten to take the disk out the first few times I played, so it may well have been something added in one of the first patches. But I don't think that was the case, as I saw a Dev also give a definitive answer on this at the SimHQ forum a short time after release.
Looks like price reduction....
http://www.overflandersfields.com/BuyNow.html
Patch 1.24 released today, with some fixes.
The devs are up to something.. probably a new Add-on pack in the works. I'm thinking it may have some bombers & more two-seaters but we'll see.
I hope they get a Straight & Level Autopilot feature in there sometime. Jockeying the joystick when not in formation or to the nearest friendly aerodrome (what the regular autopilot usually reverts to if you get separated) is a long stretch of pushing the stick forward and making corrections. Hell on ye olde carpal tunnel. Been playing ROF more since it has just such a feature, so less nerve pain when just flying somewhere and enjoying the scenery.
Quote from: Nefaro on April 22, 2014, 01:08:36 PM
I hope they get a Straight & Level Autopilot feature in there sometime.
Totally agree with you on this, Nefaro. Having to manually adjust the flight controls while in 4x compression is not only nerve wracking, it's also nerve taxing!
Had one of my better missions tonight.
I'm currently flying an Albatros D.Va with Jasta 6 in Flanders, January 1918. At this point, my aircraft isn't top of the line and I'm hoping to get a promotion and one of those nimble Fokker Dr.Is the officers in my Jasta are flying. I've had four kills thus far and I'm looking to make Ace anytime now. 8)
We get an escort mission the morning of January 10. The day doesn't bode well when one of the scouts and a two-seater collide in the air when forming up and the rest of the group scatters to avoid further mishap. We struggle to catch up and reform over Cambrai. I'm not sure if the crews of the damaged aircraft survived, but it didn't look good at all.
Perhaps our scout leader was a bit shaken up by the earlier collision, or having some kind of premonition, but he decides to leave the bombers when we pass over no man's land and head the 30+ km back to base. I was a bit concerned whether we had just hung the two-seaters out to dry but when we finally approached our aerodrome, we're surprised by an amalgam of aircraft buzzing and bombing the place. Looks like we found some action!
Not only were there French SPAD X.IIIs diving on us from on high, we also heard the sounds of bombing from a few aircraft far overhead. My first joust was with a SPAD which had attempted to sneak up on me from above and behind but I noticed him and pulled a Split-S only a second before he started shooting. After a short turning fight, I had the advantage and put some bullets into him. Pierre made to run but I must've damaged his engine with one of my bursts as he couldn't use the SPAD's normally superior speed to get away, so I finished him off.
Next came another SPAD hell bent on vengeance, again diving on me from behind not long after shooting down his buddy. This one had some different markings on his aircraft and gave me quite a fight. After scoring a few high angle hits, his engine was also damaged and he ran for the deck. We ended up in a short vertical fight down low, which was worrisome, but his partially crippled plane couldn't keep up and another score was made.
So now I'm heading home, preparing to circle the 'drome and land. In comes yet another scout. This time it's a British Camel. He must've been one of those bomber's escorts. I couldn't turn with him at first, so had to take it into the vertical. A bad stall at these altitudes would've meant death, so it was damn hairy at times. Again, I managed to damage him and I'm pretty sure I heard him grunting when I had just finished giving him some lead and was rolling over him at one point so he was probably wounded pretty badly. He stopped maneuvering heavily and tried to run but it didn't take much more to send him down at that point.
I'm thinking, "I only needed one kill to become an Ace and now I have three!" followed by, "don't get too cocky or someone will shoot you in the back."
Probably getting low on ammo, it's definitely time to land. What's this? One of those British bombers, an RE.8, is heading right across my nose! I roll up & over and let loose a few bursts from above and behind, in a duel with the back seat gunner. Fortunately I won as he stopped firing, obviously dead or wounded, which left me to pepper the RE.8 until it went down.
Four kills in one mission, from two different nations, right over my bed. Perhaps I should fly circles around my aerodrome and just wait for them in the future? :D In any case, this character made Ace in spectacular fashion and was awarded the Iron Cross 1st Class. One of the SPADs I bested ended up being a known Ace. I also somehow miraculously avoided taking any damage myself, which has admittedly been a bit of a problem for this pilot in the past. Perhaps my superiors will now give him one of those new Fokkers soon?
:D
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.org%2F65c5fj41x%2Fjager0.jpg&hash=0267cb2283638e2fb38699cb8a88bf07d2bc89d8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.org%2Fiiozmftqd%2Fjager00.jpg&hash=4df8dc8f3eec1704d4aae9363f1fe2441926e3e1)
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Here's Nef taking a long time to down an Albatros for a kill steal. He was a tough one. The rest of the Escadrille LaFayette was probably laughing about it when they found out.
I need to lower the video resolution before sending it to the 'Tube so they don't jack the quality too much next time. Their compression also lowered my engine sound. :-\
Sorry for the difficulty seeing the distant target.. you will every time I get up close.
I was flying with a nasty cold, so you may see my head snap around a couple times blowing my nose or coughing in the middle of the fun. :D
Dogfight against a pack of Pups.
Video:
I felt the heat off some of those tracers!
Burk Willitz' June 3rd Campaign Mission #3, in the "Hun Solo" MFJ1 Challenge. :D
Our flight encounters a group of Sopwith Strutter two-seaters and engages.
(Part of my extended tail chase of the second craft was cut to save time.)
Final Outcome:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.postimg.org%2Fbsdz6cezb%2F2014_04_27_00_41_04_Greenshot.jpg&hash=ecb499bc42dec4755b88e164ecfeef6333fcd0a6)
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Those rear gunners are friggin snipers! :o
Another good fight in my 1917 Escadrille LaFayette campaign, flying the SPAD VII.
This time, we run into Jasta 5 and a large furball ensues. I had dived out of the mess a distance to clear my tail, when I see two Albatrosses behind me. One of them is high-scoring ace Otto Konnecke (35 Kills at wars end), out for my blood.
8)
I must've injured him pretty badly in that high angle-off diving burst before he levelled out and tried to head home. It was the lucky break I needed, or this fight would've gone on for a long time.
Nice shootin'!
Damn but the forward view in that crate sucks. Wonder why the designer didn't think to leave a small open panel between the middle wing ribs. The loss of lift would be pretty minimal.
Quote from: Staggerwing on April 27, 2014, 07:05:33 AM
Nice shootin'!
Thanks! Thought I might get good & dead there once or twice but my luck held.
QuoteDamn but the forward view in that crate sucks. Wonder why the designer didn't think to leave a small open panel between the middle wing ribs. The loss of lift would be pretty minimal.
I know. Sopwith had it right by cutting a hole in the middle of their top wings (Strutter, Camel, Pup, Snipe). Perhaps the French SPAD designers were a bit sadistic? I almost think so considering how small the cockpit opening was. At least it's fast and sturdy.
Nice flying Nefaro! I thought your wings were going to come off a couple of times - lot of creaking!
Quote from: Shelldrake on April 27, 2014, 08:46:45 AM
Nice flying Nefaro! I thought your wings were going to come off a couple of times - lot of creaking!
My motto: If it's not creaking, you're not pushing it close enough to the edge!
It often gets me killed in Nieuports, though. Those things will snap wings off if you look in their direction when turning. >:(
Quote from: Staggerwing on April 27, 2014, 07:05:33 AM
Damn but the forward view in that crate sucks. Wonder why the designer didn't think to leave a small open panel between the middle wing ribs. The loss of lift would be pretty minimal.
Update on the SPAD's upper wing. I remembered that the middle part of it's upper wing was actually an auxiliary fuel tank. I guess they wanted more go-juice than visibility. ???
We receive orders for a patrol over the lines & hurry to get into the action. Nef and his lone wingman are quickly accosted by a pack of seven bloodthirsty Frenchmen from on high. I try to dive for the deck and run, but there is nowhere to hide!
That was some serious damage on my D.III controls.. dropped like a rock there at the end. Once I started to turn right, it rolled over permanently and my opposite inputs to right it just ended up putting me into a flat stall. Sooo close to home. My pilot soon died of his wounds.
The AI pilots in this game are crack shots. This thing is quite deadly. :)
Quote from: Nefaro on April 28, 2014, 07:25:23 PM
The AI pilots in this game are crack shots. :o
Can you sissify them in the game settings long enough to learn how to fly and shoot during your n00b missions?
Quote from: Staggerwing on April 28, 2014, 07:30:46 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on April 28, 2014, 07:25:23 PM
The AI pilots in this game are crack shots. :o
Can you sissify them in the game settings long enough to learn how to fly and shoot during your n00b missions?
Yes. There are even different categories of accuracy, so you can pick & choose. I just recently lowered the 'Rear Gunner Accuracy' because those guys were too much for me to handle without taking serious damage, even when climbing from underneath to fire and diving back down. The 2-seater AI pilots would often turn a bit to unmask their gunners MG and firing towards my front often ended with my engine or fuel being holed, along with myself sometimes. There are two or three other categories regarding accuracy, along with some damage option.
I'm flying a Sopwith Pup in an RFC66 campaign, 1917, during 3rd Ypres/Paschendaele.
Wings Over Flanders Fields.
We encounter Jasta 11 on a patrol over the lines where I have a scrap with aces Wolff and Müller. Fortunately not at the same time! I believe Richthofen, himself, was wounded at this time so he wasn't with Jasta 11 here. He killed one of my pilots in a past campaign, however.
You can watch this video at up to 720p on YouTube, if you want a higher resolution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqynPRwWz80