From the Matrix front page:
QuoteIt's been a long wait, but it's almost over. The anticipation started to build before Christmas when the game appeared to be almost complete. Years in development, Mark H. Walker's Lock'n Load Heroes of Stalingrad is now set to release on February 12th.
:)
I was in the beta early on but had to drop out after a couple of months for lack of time. I look forward to seeing the final product.
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
..and does it have an AI? :P
Quote from: Nefaro on January 21, 2014, 05:00:02 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
..and does it have an AI? :P
LOL....and to think, I hesitated to ask my question.
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
Ask over there - I double dare you! Anything price related will get slammed with their forum police.
I was very much looking forward to this - and having played their Band of Heroes game boardgame which I enjoyed very much I liked the mechanics....but...I've been burned before with board games being converted to computer games - and they just didn't translate.
I've said it before, but I'll post again for clarity here - boardgaming, for me, is about the physical thing. It's getting the map out, sorting the cards, setting up chits and rolling the die and pulling the card with a grimace on your face...that's what board gaming is about for me. These things do not translate well onto computer. Or at least, I can't think off the top of my head one that has.
So I'm cautious. It was a day one purchase for me but a) Matrix pricing policy is getting on my proverbials and b) I'm just not sure how this is going to hit the spot.
I'll tell you what I will do...if it's anywhere near the price of the (a) boardgame, I'd rather spunk the money on a boardgame, be it a World at War expansion or Band of Heroes expansion. I'm sick to death of being told it's a niche market. With pricing like it is, it'll just get more niche and the people who "don't mind paying $300 for game B" can do so - I wonder how long their hobby will last.
But I will be watching this one.
Quote from: Nefaro on January 21, 2014, 05:00:02 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
..and does it have an AI? :P
Yes it has an AI that will give you a good challenge.
As to price I have no idea... but would be very surprised if it's more than $40. There's a ton of gaming in it but it's not Command Ops or WIF....
Quote from: JudgeDredd on January 21, 2014, 06:41:07 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
Ask over there - I double dare you! Anything price related will get slammed with their forum police.
I was very much looking forward to this - and having played their Band of Heroes game boardgame which I enjoyed very much I liked the mechanics....but...I've been burned before with board games being converted to computer games - and they just didn't translate.
I've said it before, but I'll post again for clarity here - boardgaming, for me, is about the physical thing. It's getting the map out, sorting the cards, setting up chits and rolling the die and pulling the card with a grimace on your face...that's what board gaming is about for me. These things do not translate well onto computer. Or at least, I can't think off the top of my head one that has.
So I'm cautious. It was a day one purchase for me but a) Matrix pricing policy is getting on my proverbials and b) I'm just not sure how this is going to hit the spot.
I'll tell you what I will do...if it's anywhere near the price of the (a) boardgame, I'd rather spunk the money on a boardgame, be it a World at War expansion or Band of Heroes expansion. I'm sick to death of being told it's a niche market. With pricing like it is, it'll just get more niche and the people who "don't mind paying $300 for game B" can do so - I wonder how long their hobby will last.
But I will be watching this one.
I hear you JD.... but I really think you'd like this one. For me it definitely has that board game feeling even when I'm playing against the AI.
I expect the price to be reasonable as I stated above.
Playing this you won't ever forget to roll for a hero! 8)
Quote from: Barthheart on January 21, 2014, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on January 21, 2014, 05:00:02 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
..and does it have an AI? :P
Yes it has an AI that will give you a good challenge.
As to price I have no idea... but would be very surprised if it's more than $40. There's a ton of gaming in it but it's not Command Ops or WIF....
If it's in that $40 price range then I'm in....I have hopes this is going to be a great wargame.
Quote from: Barthheart on January 21, 2014, 07:08:32 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on January 21, 2014, 06:41:07 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
Ask over there - I double dare you! Anything price related will get slammed with their forum police.
I was very much looking forward to this - and having played their Band of Heroes game boardgame which I enjoyed very much I liked the mechanics....but...I've been burned before with board games being converted to computer games - and they just didn't translate.
I've said it before, but I'll post again for clarity here - boardgaming, for me, is about the physical thing. It's getting the map out, sorting the cards, setting up chits and rolling the die and pulling the card with a grimace on your face...that's what board gaming is about for me. These things do not translate well onto computer. Or at least, I can't think off the top of my head one that has.
So I'm cautious. It was a day one purchase for me but a) Matrix pricing policy is getting on my proverbials and b) I'm just not sure how this is going to hit the spot.
I'll tell you what I will do...if it's anywhere near the price of the (a) boardgame, I'd rather spunk the money on a boardgame, be it a World at War expansion or Band of Heroes expansion. I'm sick to death of being told it's a niche market. With pricing like it is, it'll just get more niche and the people who "don't mind paying $300 for game B" can do so - I wonder how long their hobby will last.
But I will be watching this one.
I hear you JD.... but I really think you'd like this one. For me it definitely has that board game feeling even when I'm playing against the AI.
I expect the price to be reasonable as I stated above.
Playing this you won't ever forget to roll for a hero! 8)
Thanks.
And you KNOW I did do that (forget to roll for a hero! and many other things) - but that is also one of the "nice quirks" of boardgaming.
I have been quietly beta testing the game and I think that if you like the board game, you will love this title :)
Well that's good news
This one has been in the oven a long time, I wish they would release a demo!
Quote from: Barthheart on January 21, 2014, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on January 21, 2014, 05:00:02 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
..and does it have an AI? :P
Yes it has an AI that will give you a good challenge.
As to price I have no idea... but would be very surprised if it's more than $40. There's a ton of gaming in it but it's not Command Ops or WIF....
It will be interesting to see what price they come up with....wasn't one of the reasons for the higher price of WIF based on the length the actual development took? So if that is the case, I wonder if that logic will be applied to this and the price will be higher than we would expect. I guess we will find out in a couple of weeks.
If that's the case (length of develop time), I'm figuring a $1000. price tag!!!!!!
Serious question-What year did this game "start" or at least when was it announced? 2006 ish?
Quote from: Hot lead and dirty talk on January 22, 2014, 08:01:02 PM
If that's the case (length of develop time), I'm figuring a $1000. price tag!!!!!!
Serious question-What year did this game "start" or at least when was it announced? 2006 ish?
First post in the game's forum was in 2005....not sure if that was the actual start but looks to be around there....
I think the difference here is that the person who did WiF was a solo act working hours a day for years. HoS took a long time, but it seems like it was always a secondary product to the board games that LnL put out.
I'd think the pricing would in line with Conflict of Heroes.
Quote from: Bison on January 22, 2014, 08:47:03 PM
I'd think the pricing would in line with Conflict of Heroes.
That was my original thinking too....seems like a very good comparison.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 22, 2014, 07:50:36 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on January 21, 2014, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on January 21, 2014, 05:00:02 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on January 21, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
Looking forward to it, but I must ask.....normal or premium pricing?
..and does it have an AI? :P
Yes it has an AI that will give you a good challenge.
As to price I have no idea... but would be very surprised if it's more than $40. There's a ton of gaming in it but it's not Command Ops or WIF....
It will be interesting to see what price they come up with....wasn't one of the reasons for the higher price of WIF based on the length the actual development took? So if that is the case, I wonder if that logic will be applied to this and the price will be higher than we would expect. I guess we will find out in a couple of weeks.
That's a totally flawed argument for pricing a game anyway. Length of development means nothing to a purchaser - why should gamers have to pay for the ineptitude of a developer? And I don't mean that nasty - just that I am in development - and the development cycle is a complex thing - fraught with pit falls. Why would the purchaser be punished for a developer not doing something correctly, not knowing his language as well as he should, not doing a proper analysis of the game mechanics to make sure it is all going to fit.
Just wrong to charge people for time it took to develop as the people are not privy to the development process and whether wrong directions were taken at key points
I'm very confident that the price will be in line with CoH. I agree that you shouldn't charge for the "length of development" and I'm pretty sure that WiF was not priced that way... just on shear volume of content... even without the AI.... :P
Nevertheless it was mentioned as such iirc.
I'm really looking forward to seeing this out and hearing opinions other than price (I can make my own mind up to buy or not). The board and counters look superb.
It is a very fun adaptation of the game. There are even some subtle changes added because of what the PC can do.
Units that are not in LoS of any of your units are completely hidden from view, ie vanish from the board, not just "not spotted".
If you can fire at a unit through at least 2 different hex sides in the same turn, you get a +1 FP bonus.
Stuff like this that would be just too fiddly in the board game.
Quote from: Barthheart on January 23, 2014, 08:18:30 AM
It is a very fun adaptation of the game. There are even some subtle changes added because of what the PC can do.
Units that are not in LoS of any of your units are completely hidden from view, ie vanish from the board, not just "not spotted".
If you can fire at a unit through at least 2 different hex sides in the same turn, you get a +1 FP bonus.
Stuff like this that would be just too fiddly in the board game.
ill wait for some lets plays and AARs but i do like the look of it
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 23, 2014, 08:20:06 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on January 23, 2014, 08:18:30 AM
It is a very fun adaptation of the game. There are even some subtle changes added because of what the PC can do.
Units that are not in LoS of any of your units are completely hidden from view, ie vanish from the board, not just "not spotted".
If you can fire at a unit through at least 2 different hex sides in the same turn, you get a +1 FP bonus.
Stuff like this that would be just too fiddly in the board game.
ill wait for some lets plays and AARs but i do like the look of it
What do you want to see? Anything in particular? Maybe I can whip something up....
having never played the boardgame, just maybe one or two opening turns with some exchanges, just to get a feel for the mechanics and representation on screen
that would be awesome if you have time
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 23, 2014, 09:09:39 AM
having never played the boardgame, just maybe one or two opening turns with some exchanges, just to get a feel for the mechanics and representation on screen
that would be awesome if you have time
Might not be until after the release but I'll see what I can do..... anyone know how to turn a Fraps vid capture into a youtube... never done youtube before...
Quote from: JudgeDredd on January 23, 2014, 02:19:17 AM
Just wrong to charge people for time it took to develop as the people are not privy to the development process and whether wrong directions were taken at key points
Now, consider that I'm in development when you read these comments.
What you, as a consumer, pay for when a product first comes out is the time it took the company to research and develop the product including a profit margin added in.
That's why TV's, microwaves, etc. go down in price after a set time. The manufacturer has a set time they attach to a product for you, as the consumer, to pay for their efforts. Once that time limit is reached the cost goes down to reflect that they are now into pure profits. What they normally do is bring the next model out, which will be similarly priced, with more gadgets/bells/whistles to keep the price as high as possible.
Having said that, it doesn't apply to wargames. In our case, for FPC:RS, there were 4 of us working on the game. We each worked on it roughly 30 hours a week for more than a year, as we have full daytime jobs. In a single year our man hours alone would be 6,240 hours for just a year. Consider we were paid just $7 an hour for that labor. (On average we make far more than $7 an hour at our day jobs. ) That would mean that the game would have make $43,680 just to pay for wages for that time; at below minimum wage.
What happens in this business is we get paid for the end result. Like a painter. A painter creates a painting and puts it up for sale. He knows about what his other paintings have brought him and he knows what his customers like. So, he prices his painting accordingly. That's how the wargame market is.
We know going into this that we won't get paid equal to the manhours put into it. Wargames are created for you by people that love the hobby. They are sold to you by a business of some sort. Each of them would like to make enough money to make it worth their while.
So, normally, for most products, you as the consumer usually do pay for research and development time. In wargames you normally don't.
Hope that helps.
Good Hunting.
MR
Ok - those are some very good points :)
LB and I were talking through some back-of-the-napkin math over a recent release ("recent" in this case was 2011, at the time we were talking) and after the cut from the publisher, the software/hardware overhead, and business costs (incorporation, taxes, etc), each member of the dev team cleared about $3k, for a pretty major release through S&M. 18 months of pretty hard work, for, essentially, a really nice coffee table from Pottery Barn.
I don't doubt it's not a full time, put your feet up and get paid kinda job.
However, taking WiF as an example, there is one mathematical equation they can't argue with - they never got my £130. Now I'm not saying by reducing it they would've garnered more money, all I'm saying by that is for me (and presumably other people also) they priced it in such a way as they didn't take my money.
Oh - and by the other token - they could've priced it at £200 and apparently a load of people would've bought it. So who knows. ??? Only them I guess.
Anyway - sorry for the OT :(
Quote from: bayonetbrant on January 23, 2014, 11:09:54 AM
LB and I were talking through some back-of-the-napkin math over a recent release ("recent" in this case was 2011, at the time we were talking) and after the cut from the publisher, the software/hardware overhead, and business costs (incorporation, taxes, etc), each member of the dev team cleared about $3k, for a pretty major release through S&M. 18 months of pretty hard work, for, essentially, a really nice coffee table from Pottery Barn.
If that is true, I hope the devs had a day job!
Considering what salaries are in a good IT shop these days, you'd have to be crazy to work for peanuts like that.
I can only think of about a dozen guys who are working full-time in hobby wargaming (digital or tabletop) and making a full living off of it (ie, not supplemented by military retirement or consulting gigs etc)
I was upset recently when checking on M2TW mods at how many are dead or unfinished until I thought how many hours of thankless work and effort goes into developing one and all without any kind of salary or reward but for our praises.
Did you guys want to start paying for development time?
I can get that approved TODAY!! :)
Many times the comments that come after months of work are:
Why isn't this included?
Why doesn't this work right?
Are you sure you guys actually tested this?
If you are lucky, and I have been, you work on a project that gets:
Great job.
Nice work. When can we get more....(insert any of your fondest desires)
When is the next...(insert your fondest desires)
Good Hunting.
MR
I've been waiting for this game for quite awhile. I need to know how well it will perform on W8 though.
No disrespect to Mark Walker's labor of love intended but...........
The guard is up after seeing long in developing WIF be released with no AI and complaints about bugs.
heads up for tomorrow
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 11, 2014, 03:14:27 PM
heads up for tomorrow
Anyone jumping right in on day one? Would love to hear your initial impressions....good and bad. Being retired, my spending dollars are limited. I have many times relied on the honest impressions posted by you guys.
I have been burned waaaaay too many times to jump in first day.
I'll be waiting.
I'll jump, if its not silly money. I've been following this one, since the Three Moves Ahead podcast grilling (https://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episodes/episode-27) seemed to put it on hold, instead of see it released.
Jeez was that 2009!!! Only 5 years later then.. deary me.
I'll bet it's less than 50/50 on release tomorrow, the way this project has gone, I'll bet it will still be a few more weeks! :)
Quote from: Mad Russian on January 24, 2014, 11:09:02 AM
Did you guys want to start paying for development time?
I can get that approved TODAY!! :)
Many times the comments that come after months of work are:
Why isn't this included?
Why doesn't this work right?
Are you sure you guys actually tested this?
If you are lucky, and I have been, you work on a project that gets:
Great job.
Nice work. When can we get more....(insert any of your fondest desires)
When is the next...(insert your fondest desires)
Good Hunting.
MR
It's already been done!
1. First sell a Kick-Starter, don't forget the free snake oil for the $10,000 donation for the supper secret edition with a real paper map or plastic something.
2. Then sell the early release of the first ever Gama version limited edition.
3. Then sell the the alpha and beta versions along with some free snake oil.
4. Don't forget the pay to win micro-transactions so you can milk the players who bought the early release crap.
You should then have enough money to either start/finish or change your name and leave town!
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 11, 2014, 05:01:34 PM
I have been burned waaaaay too many times to jump in first day.
I'll be waiting.
Do I sense a day #2 purchase:)
I'll certainly be picking this up quick...unless it turns out bad, or costs some inexplicable amount of money. :D
Quote from: SgtRock on February 11, 2014, 06:04:59 PM
I'll bet it's less than 50/50 on release tomorrow, the way this project has gone, I'll bet it will still be a few more weeks! :)
Ill take that bet....
QuoteHi guys,
The battle will begin tomorrow, never fear. We are just doing the final store checks now in preparation for tomorrow's release. There is a lot more promotion in the works and we've cleared the decks for a couple of weeks after Lock 'n Load's release so that we can focus on getting the word out.
Regards,
- Erik
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 11, 2014, 05:01:34 PM
I have been burned waaaaay too many times to jump in first day.
I'll be waiting.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on February 11, 2014, 07:17:45 PM
I'll certainly be picking this up quick...unless it turns out bad, or costs some inexplicable amount of money. :D
Guys, I've been testing this fer a few years now. It's it great shape, plays just like the board game, is fun and challenging.
Not sure what else you want to hear.
Not trying to get you all to buy it first day, but it's not a half baked pile.... ;)
From a replayability standpoint, how does this game hold up? How many scenarios, and how long on average to play? Any randomness to make you want to play a scenario more than once?
Is there a (usable) scenario editor? More than a little gunshy after COH. Since there's no PBEM, a good scenario editor is a must to extend the game's life. COH's scenario editor is not user friendly, poorly documented, and there is almost NO support from Matrix or the developers for people trying to figure it out. Matrix usually does a pretty good job supporting their titles, but they stay away from COH's forums like it has the plague.
Quote from: smittyohio on February 11, 2014, 08:47:08 PM
From a replayability standpoint, how does this game hold up? How many scenarios, and how long on average to play? Any randomness to make you want to play a scenario more than once?
Is there a (usable) scenario editor? More than a little gunshy after COH. Since there's no PBEM, a good scenario editor is a must to extend the game's life. COH's scenario editor is not user friendly, poorly documented, and there is almost NO support from Matrix or the developers for people trying to figure it out. Matrix usually does a pretty good job supporting their titles, but they stay away from COH's forums like it has the plague.
Replayablility: It holds up well. I like playing scenarios again to try different way to win or to win faster. There is no "one way" to win a scenario, various tactics can be used to win. There are 3 levels of difficulty. There are 2 campaigns, one German and one Russian, where you get to take your core troopers from one scenario to the next. There is some branching in the campaigns. German campaign is something like 17 scenarios, Russian is about 18... can't remember exact numbers. About a dozen stand alone scenarios. Small scenarios can take about an hour to play, larger ones can take a couple. Only a couple of scenarios have random setup, but most multiplayer scenarios have player's setting up their forces.
The editor is workable but the is not currently documented. Plans are to improve this.
There is no PBEM but there is live MP capability through Slitherine's server. Log on and meet people in the lobby to setup and play games.
I was involved in the later beta testing. I own 6 of the BoH board games and this plays just like them ;) I think people will like this title! :)
It's on my short list to purchase. I enjoyed Conflict of Heroes and really hope that Slitherine/Matrix continue to develop board game conversions.
BH - is there/does there need to be any explanation for not even starting the marketing campaign until after the game is released - did the release date sneak up on Matrix somehow?
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 11, 2014, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 11, 2014, 05:01:34 PM
I have been burned waaaaay too many times to jump in first day.
I'll be waiting.
Do I sense a day #2 purchase:)
lol - jesus...I didn't expect to wait that long...I was thinking more along the lines of later on Day 1 :P
Quote from: Barthheart on February 11, 2014, 08:27:26 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 11, 2014, 05:01:34 PM
I have been burned waaaaay too many times to jump in first day.
I'll be waiting.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on February 11, 2014, 07:17:45 PM
I'll certainly be picking this up quick...unless it turns out bad, or costs some inexplicable amount of money. :D
Guys, I've been testing this fer a few years now. It's it great shape, plays just like the board game, is fun and challenging.
Not sure what else you want to hear.
Not trying to get you all to buy it first day, but it's not a half baked pile.... ;)
That's good enough for me. Crumbled already (well, given it's priced right for me)
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 12, 2014, 02:28:35 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 11, 2014, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 11, 2014, 05:01:34 PM
I have been burned waaaaay too many times to jump in first day.
I'll be waiting.
Do I sense a day #2 purchase:)
lol - jesus...I didn't expect to wait that long...I was thinking more along the lines of later on Day 1 :P
Too funny:). I guess I will wait to see your impressions later today:)
The weekend. I won't have time today. But I'm off Thursday and Friday.
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 01:09:39 AM
BH - is there/does there need to be any explanation for not even starting the marketing campaign until after the game is released - did the release date sneak up on Matrix somehow?
I'm not involved in that side of things so I have no idea. I pretty disappointed about the lack of fanfare as well.... But I've come to realize that Matrix is not the same company as before the merger.... :P
yeah, their rolling banner is a bit cheeky too
'grogheads awards matrix games'
pffft
$40 dollars for download is cheaper than expected
I think that's a fair and reasonable price. Thank God.
Quote from: Bison on February 12, 2014, 07:06:32 AM
I think that's a fair and reasonable price. Thank God.
the weird thing is there is noone aware its arrival
i suppose it stops the usual furore over price and all the other crap that flies with a day 1 release - 2 hours after release there is a guy from the UK and 1 from Spain happy its out
Done. Downloading >:(
lmfao
if it was PBEM id have given you a challenge, but it aint, so i wont
first lot of feedback is on you JD
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:32:51 AM
lmfao
if it was PBEM id have given you a challenge, but it aint, so i wont
first lot of feedback is on you JD
So play live.
I'll take any challenge for a live game.
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:56:20 AM
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Ya don't have to play non-stop. You can save a restart the game later.
Quote from: Barthheart on February 12, 2014, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:56:20 AM
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Ya don't have to play non-stop. You can save a restart the game later.
keep talking
im getting pointy
Quote from: Barthheart on February 12, 2014, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:56:20 AM
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Ya don't have to play non-stop. You can save a restart the game later.
I'd like to try an online game...what time zone are you?
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 12, 2014, 08:19:27 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 12, 2014, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:56:20 AM
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Ya don't have to play non-stop. You can save a restart the game later.
I'd like to try an online game...what time zone are you?
puh.....
shunned by a Scotsman
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:59:58 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 12, 2014, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:56:20 AM
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Ya don't have to play non-stop. You can save a restart the game later.
keep talking
im getting pointy
Errr... uummm... yeah.... where
is yer left hand?
What else do you want to know?
Almost 50 scenarios in all.
Meeting engagements.
Defensive engagements.
Assault engagements.
City fighting, rural fighting, capture/defend the hill, winter fighting, night fighting.
Russian regulars, partisans and Guard troops.
German regulars and SS troops.
Romanian troops.
Close support air attacks.
Lots of armour.
Off board artillery strikes.
Leaders, heroes, medics, snipers, Russian Commissar for "motivation", Russian nurse....
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 12, 2014, 08:19:27 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 12, 2014, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:56:20 AM
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Ya don't have to play non-stop. You can save a restart the game later.
I'd like to try an online game...what time zone are you?
I'm in EST, I think that is GMT -5... right now it's 0827 and I'm at work.
I could meet you for a game on Sat or Sun? I'm up at 0630 anyway...
Quote from: Barthheart on February 12, 2014, 08:26:15 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:59:58 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 12, 2014, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:56:20 AM
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Ya don't have to play non-stop. You can save a restart the game later.
keep talking
im getting pointy
Errr... uummm... yeah.... where is yer left hand?
What else do you want to know?
Almost 50 scenarios in all.
Meeting engagements.
Defensive engagements.
Assault engagements.
City fighting, rural fighting, capture/defend the hill, winter fighting, night fighting.
Russian regulars, partisans and Guard troops.
German regulars and SS troops.
Romanian troops.
Close support air attacks.
Lots of armour.
Off board artillery strikes.
Leaders, heroes, medics, snipers, Russian Commissar for "motivation", Russian nurse....
lol i just meant saving mid game
so you both play hot seat, and at any point can just save and leave it for another day
im up for that
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 08:26:00 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 12, 2014, 08:19:27 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 12, 2014, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:56:20 AM
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Ya don't have to play non-stop. You can save a restart the game later.
I'd like to try an online game...what time zone are you?
puh.....
shunned by a Scotsman
lol - you haven't said you're buying yet. I'd much rather play someone in the UK...more convenient time wise
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 08:29:30 AM
...
lol i just meant saving mid game
so you both play hot seat, and at any point can just save and leave it for another day
im up for that
To play MP, you need to connect to the Slitherine MP server. You enter the lobby and meet your opponent. Start a game.
Play for as long as you want. Leave the game. Re-enter the lobby at a later time, select the game in progress when you are both there and start playing again.
Same works if you happen to get disconnected.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 12, 2014, 08:19:27 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 12, 2014, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 12, 2014, 07:56:20 AM
dont get me wrong, its not a complaint
and i dont think either JD or I have got the time to spend 90 mins non stop across a battlefield from each other
Ya don't have to play non-stop. You can save a restart the game later.
I'd like to try an online game...what time zone are you?
out of curiousity what was the cost after tax JD?
DD was £30
im back in the UK tomorrow night - ill download it then, gimme a chance to do a tutorial and then ill hit you up for a battle - i know not Saturday, youll be crying into you irn bru again
not this Saturday ... no rugby for a week...give us time to lick or wounds before our next battering against the Italians :)
lol no worries - once im downloaded and an undefeatable warrior we're on
ive asked Brant about it - if we AAR it we might achieve front page glory
Only a wargamer gets excited about a computer game that emulates a board game.... I'll never understand you guys.
Regardless, this game looks very nice. Something about it reminds me of Close Combat. In fact, most of the Lock n Load products have fantastic artwork.
Since there's no demo, I'm hoping you guys can answer some questions.
What are the campaigns like?
Is the AI decent?
Is there any way to modify the dice rolling, and make it automatic/hidden?
What is the scale? It looks like Squad/PLT...what is the highest it can support?
Is Lock n Load ever going to release their modern stuff on PC? A Day of Heroes or Heroes of the Gap?
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on February 12, 2014, 10:41:58 AM
Only a wargamer gets excited about a computer game that emulates a board game.... I'll never understand you guys.
Regardless, this game looks very nice. Something about it reminds me of Close Combat. In fact, most of the Lock n Load products have fantastic artwork.
Since there's no demo, I'm hoping you guys can answer some questions.
What are the campaigns like?
Is the AI decent?
Is there any way to modify the dice rolling, and make it automatic/hidden?
What is the scale? It looks like Squad/PLT...what is the highest it can support?
Is Lock n Load ever going to release their modern stuff on PC? A Day of Heroes or Heroes of the Gap?
Campaigns are kind of story driven. You follow a leader character through a series of connected scenarios. 3 or 4 intro scenarios and then you get to take some core units with you through the rest of the campaign. You gain "campaign points" for do killing enemies in interesting ways. ;) these can be used to improve your core troops. If your leader dies the campaign ends.
The AI is decent. It can occasionally still beat me and I've been playing this game for many years. It won't always surprise a veteran player but will still give you a good game.
Yes the dice and detailed combat table can be turned off. So when you fire all you'll see is the result on the map. The UI is also hidable.
The scale is 150 meters per hex, squad counters, individual leaders and tanks, weapon teams for 3-4 men.
I hope that this does well so they will do the modern stuff on PC as well.
8)
Thanks for the reply.
Although East Front isn't my thing, it's still tempting...
Hey Barth. Any advantage to buying boxed vs digital? I mean do you really need a manual to learn how to play?
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 12, 2014, 12:50:18 PM
Hey Barth. Any advantage to buying boxed vs digital? I mean do you really need a manual to learn how to play?
I'd say no. There are some good tutorial scenarios that will teach you the basics of how to work the game controls.
And the game controls are very straight forward.
The included ebook manual has all that the printed manual has, so if you have an tablet of some kind yer all set.
There are a few quick reference pages at the back of the manual you might find handy until you fully understand the game,
but for that there is a printer-friendly .pdf included as well.
Once you learn the game, you'll never need the manual. I've been playing the board game for years and maybe look something up once every 10 games or so.
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on February 12, 2014, 10:41:58 AM
Only a wargamer gets excited about a computer game that emulates a board game.... I'll never understand you guys.
Well, speaking only for myself, I'm 62 years old so in my early adult days, for the longest time, there were no computers so the only wargame option was table top mini's and boardgames. Because of this I will always have an affinity for boardgame conversions, I'm comfortable with them and very much enjoy them. But I also play and enjoy other wargames as well.
Good price, looks good, Brant seal of approval...I'm in. Well, I'm in once I finish another game or two from my existing backlog...SHUT UP, ME, THAT IS HOW IT'S GOING TO WORK! STOP BEING A BABY!
Yes...
I don't understand the need to show dice in a computer game? Yes, I know it's just like the board game but, I not buying or playing the board game!
I'd love to get this but with my travel schedule Ipad is the way I role now for any new games I buy.
I have heard rumors about porting LnL to iOS and if it ever happens they would get my money ASAP
Con
Quote from: SgtRock on February 12, 2014, 02:47:45 PM
I don't understand the need to show dice in a computer game? Yes, I know it's just like the board game but, I not buying or playing the board game!
You don't have to watch them if you don't want. There is an options setting to turn them off.
Quote from: SgtRock on February 12, 2014, 02:47:45 PM
I don't understand the need to show dice in a computer game? Yes, I know it's just like the board game but, I not buying or playing the board game!
The few games that make it feel like you're rolling dice (by clicking on them and seeing them roll) just adds to the boardgame atmosphere of the whole thing. I think it's great when done well. In this case, the "immersion" is in relation to playing the tabletop as opposed to commanding a platoon on the East Front.
Why not just buy the tabletop game? Dealing with table space usage, setup time, and my big reason - managing lots of counters - is so much easier.
Despite my general WW2 gaming aversion, I will have this before long. The reasonable price is good to see. For awhile I began to think everything released by Slitherine-Matrix would be $80. ???
Quote from: SgtRock on February 12, 2014, 02:47:45 PM
I don't understand the need to show dice in a computer game? Yes, I know it's just like the board game but, I not buying or playing the board game!
Well not everyone is the same, but here's my take...
I have said before, and I'll say again...for me, conversion of a board game to a PC lacks something. Setting up the board, getting the counters out, having the dice there, getting your chits ready, sorting the cards, the rule book etc, etc, etc. Everything for me is about the physical product.
For me those are elements that make boardgames very special. When you convert a boardgame to a computer game, it removes ALL the physical element...and what you have is a rather sterile version of a superb boardgame.
With the dice in the game, the cards and graphics being the same...what you end up with is a very good digital version of a boardgame.
I think it's even more important if you've played the actual boardgame being represented.
I don't know how better to explain it.
I understand why someone would not see the point of it if they didn't play boardgames. I could also understand if people didn't get how the graphics had to be 2D if they hadn't played the boardgame...but in my mind, it's absolutely essential for me to play that computer version of the boardgame as I would the physical product.
Conflict of Heroes was a great boardgame and a good system. It lost something in translation to the PC version because they went 3D. They caught up after release and made a 2D version of the game which was much better.
Of course, it's good to have both sides...people who enjoyed the boardgame can have an exact representation of the boardgame they love and entice other people in with switching "boardgame features" off.
That's all I have got. I've only played a single scenario just now...but I love it's look.
The point of a computer game is to create what cannot be created with a board game. At least they made the dice something that can be toggled. I'm really tempted here..
I'm not really keyed in on Lock n Load, since I'm not a board gamer. Now that they have a successful game out, with what seems to be a desirable system, will they look at converting more of their games to PC? I would think most of the artwork is already digital.
What about the World at War series?
http://lnlpublishing.com/products/world-at-war-series
Those are some beautiful looking games. Do they have any plans to make those digital?
I'm sitting here, reading the thread, and set out on the table in front of me is L n L's Heroes of the Blitzkrieg. 8)
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on February 12, 2014, 05:21:55 PM
The point of a computer game is to create what cannot be created with a board game...
I can't see how that's true. He seems to have managed it :P
I think the point of a computer representation of a board game is to bring it to the masses, to remove the need for solitaire and "house rules" and to do the rule enforcement for you.
The Lock and Load games are superb. I have two, World at War:Blood and Bridges and Band of Heroes and they are beautiful and brilliant. His rule books, however, should be written by someone else. They are, imo, all over the place, unclear and in some cases, simply confusing.
This game has taken long enough...I wouldn't imagine that he'd be moving to a new set of rules by going to the World at War series until he's garnered some cash...perhaps making add-ons for this era of game - there are loads after all. But that is pure conjecture. I would love him to move to the World at War series also.
Barthheart - I'm playing the Advanced Rally Phase tutorial and when I fail to rally with the Commissar, I do not get a Fight or Die option to try again. Do you get the Fight or Die option fire?
Hey folks - Just after major new releases drop, we're going to fire up some specific sub-forums for those games, to talk gameplay, bugs, scenarios, etc. This is an experiment and we'll see how it goes. In the past, we've just had 1 major thread that collected a lot of topics that weren't of great interest to all the readers, so we're going to try this and see what happens.
Discuss all manner of gameplay of Heroes of Stalingrad here.
Discuss all manner of technical specs and req's of Heroes of Stalingrad here.
Discuss all manner of bugs, feature requests, tweaks, etc, for Heroes of Stalingrad here.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 12, 2014, 05:46:14 PM
Barthheart - I'm playing the Advanced Rally Phase tutorial and when I fail to rally with the Commissar, I do not get a Fight or Die option to try again. Do you get the Fight or Die option fire?
It seems you were answered at Matrix. Did that help..?
OK guys - we opened a sub-forum with a bunch of threads specifically to discuss Heroes of Stalingrad.
We're trying something new to see how this plays out
Let us know what you think
QuoteI think the point of a computer representation of a board game is to bring it to the masses, to remove the need for solitaire and "house rules" and to do the rule enforcement for you.
Don't you think there's a danger of making a computer game that only appeals to board gamers? To me, I want something more than a simulated cardboard map and counters and seeing dice roll makes my eyes roll. Reading the Matrix forums I keep seeing multiple comments like it's just like the board game, too me that's like saying something tastes just like chicken. Why would I buy something that's tastes like chicken, if I want chicken then I'll buy chicken, not something that tastes like it.
This is why I need a demo!
Quote from: SgtRock on February 12, 2014, 08:38:32 PM
QuoteI think the point of a computer representation of a board game is to bring it to the masses, to remove the need for solitaire and "house rules" and to do the rule enforcement for you.
Don't you think there's a danger of making a computer game that only appeals to board gamers? To me, I want something more than a simulated cardboard map and counters and seeing dice roll makes my eyes roll. Reading the Matrix forums I keep seeing multiple comments like it's just like the board game, too me that's like saying something tastes just like chicken. Why would I buy something that's tastes like chicken, if I want chicken then I'll buy chicken, not something that tastes like it.
This is why I need a demo!
Everything you are saying says to me that you don't want this game..... so don't buy it. :)
To me, it's a great squad level tactical turn based game, that happens to look like a board game. That last bit appeals to be because I'm of the generation that started war gaming before there were computers.
I didn't like the way Conflict of Heroes went with the 3d sprites instead of the 2d counters form the board game. But many, many people do like that. (However there was enough requests that they finally added hi-res versions of the 2d counters after release.)
As much as we all like to claim that game play is paramount, most of us like to look at something that appeals to us in some way. The Battle in Normandy series of games make my eyes bleed from the colour palette but I hear is a great game... I just can't get past the looks.... so the game is not for me.
Like I said before you can turn off the dice rolling around the board, you can turn off the attack DRM breakdown charts and just play the game by selecting a unit and choosing to fire at the enemy and seeing the end results only. Lots of testers played this way, it's way faster to play a scenario that way.
Tactical hint #1 - killing infantry with infantry from a distance in HoS is hard! Get up close and personal in a melee combat.
It is easier to use the old Army adage: Find, fix, flank and finish.
Find the enemy: locate your enemy so as to be able to fire at him. This requires the target hex to be Spotted. (A hex is Spotted if someone in it has fire or moved or you have troops next to it.)
Fix the enemy: fire at him so that he can't move and is unwilling or unable to fire back, ie shaken them.
Flank the enemy: part of your force should be moving around the enemy while the first part Fixes him.
Finish the enemy: move your flanking force in the enemy's hex and kill him in melee combat.
In HoS, moving into a hex that contains nothing but shaken enemy units will result in the automatic killing of those enemy units. Even a single half squad of yours that is in good order (ie not shaken) can move into a hex with several shaken enemy squads and kill them all. In the boardgame circle of this series this is called "Shake 'n Take".
Melee is very powerful in this game and is your friend if used properly.
I got really frustrated beta testing this as I can't get past the campaign missions. It seems to be more like a puzzle than a tactical combat game. Try this, try that, see what works. Employ cautious and sound real-world tactics, and you might just not accomplish the mission.
That said, it is a good tactical system. Better than Conflict of Heroes in my opinion because the latter is just so gamey in my opinion. Will be buying this eventually.
Tactical Hint #2 - Spotting or How to cross the Street
Spotting is a important feature in HoS that makes it different from that other squad leading type game. ;)
Just because the you can see the enemy units skulking in the building across the street doesn't mean your men on the ground can. The enemy needs to have given his position away by moving or shooting OR you need men right up next to them to give their position away.
So now you have to cross the street with the enemy sitting in the building across from you... what to do?
1) You could spend an action and try and spot them with a unit or leader. You'll need to roll 1 or a 2 on 1D6. Low odds and make that unit not be able to move that turn.
If your force is on the attack, spending time trying to spot means you are not advancing and you will probably run out of time/turns to complete your mission.
2) Move towards them. This might sound like a bad idea, but is actually the most efficient way to advance your force.
DON'T move your entire stack into the street! Just move a single squad/half squad. See if your enemy takes the bait. If he does then your squad has done their job by drawing fire and exposing the enemy(Find). Also they can now no longer fire this turn (Fix).
Now it is safe for the rest of your units to move and or fire at the enemy.
Try to move your Leaders last so they can move to rally any of your shaken units that drew fire.
If the enemy does not fire at your bait then keep moving until your unit is right next to the enemy, preferably in some kind of cover terrain. At this point they will be spotted for all to see/fire at. Now shoot or move the next unit.
Make your enemy have to choose when to fire or hold. They won't be able to do everything in a turn.
Great tips. No wonder I can't win the missions. I've been wasting time spotting and shooting. :)
QuoteEverything you are saying says to me that you don't want this game..... so don't buy it.
It seems that everyone who is playing this has played the board game, I haven't an can't get any sense of what gameplay is like! After 5+ years in development, one would think 3-4 weeks would have been spent on a demo so those who never played the board game would could get a sense of how the game plays.
Quote from: SgtRock on February 13, 2014, 11:43:26 AM
QuoteEverything you are saying says to me that you don't want this game..... so don't buy it.
It seems that everyone who is playing this has played the board game, I haven't an can't get any sense of what gameplay is like! After 5+ years in development, one would think 3-4 weeks would have been spent on a demo so those who never played the board game would could get a sense of how the game plays.
Yep, a demo might help some people that have never play this board game or any other squad level tactical board game. I have no idea if one is in the works.
I never understood how a demo is that much of an arse ache...I really haven't. The game is designed on a menu system...so disable things so they can't be played or provide an exe with 1 scenario...maybe two. Maybe the tutorial scenarios. :o
Yep, this game would lend itself to a one scenario demo very well......
Quote from: jomni on February 13, 2014, 09:10:32 AM
Great tips. No wonder I can't win the missions. I've been wasting time spotting and shooting. :)
Got the game today, finished the tutorials and played out (and lost) the first scenario in the German campaign (with the civilian girl). Not sure I understand spotting. Appears you have to re-spot each turn, even on an enemy unit inside a building who didn't move but did fire on you the turn before. Is this correct or am I missing something? Moving out in the open is an almost certain recipe for getting your units shaken, which renders them ineffective until rallied, which is itself not a sure thing. The dice roles are necessary for me now to better understand the various modifiers but I can see myself turning them off after a while to speed up the game. All in all, a very well done game. Not one technical issue has come up. I love the visuals, the boardgame feel and so far the AI has been quite a challenge.
Quote from: Rayfer on February 13, 2014, 08:59:39 PM
....
Appears you have to re-spot each turn, even on an enemy unit inside a building who didn't move but did fire on you the turn before. Is this correct or am I missing something?
.....
You have that right. Think of it this way: even though they fired at you last turn and you know where they are roughly, they have since moved around in the hex to get concealed again. Each hex is about 150 metres wide so there's lots room to hide.
Quote from: Barthheart on February 13, 2014, 09:15:04 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on February 13, 2014, 08:59:39 PM
....
Appears you have to re-spot each turn, even on an enemy unit inside a building who didn't move but did fire on you the turn before. Is this correct or am I missing something?
.....
You have that right. Think of it this way: even though they fired at you last turn and you know where they are roughly, they have since moved around in the hex to get concealed again. Each hex is about 150 metres wide so there's lots room to hide.
Makes sense, thanks. And I guess they have to respot me as well! Did eke out a victory as the Germans in the Ambush scenario. A last turn melee for a victory hex did it. This game is quite a gem.
Quote from: Rayfer on February 13, 2014, 09:43:36 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 13, 2014, 09:15:04 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on February 13, 2014, 08:59:39 PM
....
Appears you have to re-spot each turn, even on an enemy unit inside a building who didn't move but did fire on you the turn before. Is this correct or am I missing something?
.....
You have that right. Think of it this way: even though they fired at you last turn and you know where they are roughly, they have since moved around in the hex to get concealed again. Each hex is about 150 metres wide so there's lots room to hide.
Makes sense, thanks. And I guess they have to respot me as well! Did eke out a victory as the Germans in the Ambush scenario. A last turn melee for a victory hex did it. This game is quite a gem.
Yes the AI plays by the same rules.
The scenarios in the board game almost always come down the last die roll on the last turn. They have done well to get the same balance here.
Thought the game was done.
Yep the game is done. And for sale at Matrix games.
I thought the hex scale was 40 to 50 metres not 150.
Quote from: z1812 on February 14, 2014, 10:41:22 AM
I thought the hex scale was 40 to 50 metres not 150.
Yep your are correct I was mixing feet with meters. So 50 m ~ 150 feet.
There's that damn metric system messing people up again... ;D
Quote from: Capn Darwin on February 14, 2014, 11:51:11 AM
There's that damn metric system messing people up again... ;D
And I'm Canadian! :P
Quote from: Barthheart on February 14, 2014, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: z1812 on February 14, 2014, 10:41:22 AM
I thought the hex scale was 40 to 50 metres not 150.
Yep your are correct I was mixing feet with meters. So 50 m ~ 150 feet.
Actually 50m is about 165ft, no?
I use 1m = 1.1 yds as a quick conversion estimate.
Quote from: Nefaro on February 14, 2014, 08:17:25 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 14, 2014, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: z1812 on February 14, 2014, 10:41:22 AM
I thought the hex scale was 40 to 50 metres not 150.
Yep your are correct I was mixing feet with meters. So 50 m ~ 150 feet.
Actually 50m is about 165ft, no
I use 1m = 1.1 yds as a quick conversion estimate.
Well thanks Mr. Helper
164'-0 1/2" :)
Quote from: Hot lead and dirty talk on February 14, 2014, 08:39:59 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on February 14, 2014, 08:17:25 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 14, 2014, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: z1812 on February 14, 2014, 10:41:22 AM
I thought the hex scale was 40 to 50 metres not 150.
Yep your are correct I was mixing feet with meters. So 50 m ~ 150 feet.
Actually 50m is about 165ft, no
I use 1m = 1.1 yds as a quick conversion estimate.
Well thanks Mr. Helper
Free conversion tips from yours truly, Mr. Fancypants.
;D
Just don't ask about liquid measurements.
;D I Mtr = 39.375" ;)
Well I've picked it up. I cannot resist board game conversions and especially this one since I was never really able to figure out the rules for Band of Heroes. My thought process is that this may be a gateway to understand the rules for the board game. LnL doesn't have the easiest to read and understand rulebooks.
I bought it too, but still trying to figure out how the impulses/turns/activations/rally/etc. work. The game really does look nice and at the smaller scale I always like to play. Just a matter of trying to figure things out. I have not ever played the board game or really any board games for that matter so a little harder for me to grasp what's going on. However, I am determined to make it work for me:)
Turn = series of impulses
Rally = happens at the start of a turn, and lets your guys act that turn
Impulse = set of actions your dudes take within the turn
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 16, 2014, 07:20:53 AM
Turn = series of impulses
Rally = happens at the start of a turn, and lets your guys act that turn
Impulse = set of actions your dudes take within the turn
Thanks for the info, I keep forgetting to check back with this new section:)
Chelco is also doing some gameplay stuff...
http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.de/2014/02/lock-n-load-heroes-of-stalingrad.html
How is the game? I have read it is like the original Squad Leader. I liked that game.
Can you make big scenarios in this game?
Quote from: Marty Ward on February 16, 2014, 06:30:33 PMHow is the game? I have read it is like the original Squad Leader. I liked that game.
http://wargamer.com/article/2097/Lock-'n-Load:-Band-of-Heroes
You can make fairly large scenarios.
Map size can be up to 3 x 3 amp panels which is about 45 x 30 hexes. Each hex is about 50 m, so about 2.2 km x 1.5 km
You can hundreds of units on the map. But the game is really designed for small unit combat, so maybe a reinforced company plus tanks for each side is a manageable size.
Do they even do any research on their articles at wargamer anymore? Conflict of heroes is also a board game port made by matrix. Small quibble but good grief it's becoming a common theme there.
Quote from: Bison on February 16, 2014, 07:02:14 PM
Do they even do any research on their articles at wargamer anymore? Conflict of heroes is also a board game port made by matrix. Small quibble but good grief it's becoming a common theme there.
You do realise that that article was written in 2005, by Brant, and long before the CoH PC game came out.... ?
;D
I stand by my statement!
I just popped in to say "This game is awesome!" When/if the editor becomes user friendly, this game will be huge. The possibilities are endless. I think we may see many theaters represented in the future. I'm really digging this. Anyway, back to the game.
FWIW...just bought HoS and am starting to enjoy it. I think this will be my go-to game for the next while for quick game sessions. Ive played the "convoy" scenario a couple of times as the soviets and won hands down everytime. Now to try it as the Germans...
Well...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi830.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz227%2FBison36%2FHoS_zps1f08c51c.jpg&hash=e9ec719b7f25e4ebc62bc373f98fffc5c890d4c5)
I have no idea what the hell is going on with all of the dice rolls. I guess I should read the manual, but there are at least 3 or 4 rolls for every engagement and little detail in the dialogue box. I'll accept that I am just that awesome.
The one aspect of the game that I don't really like is the zoom levels. There's a zoom level missing between super close and the one up from it. There is a sweet spot to be had but I cannot find it with the available zoom levels.
The fact I cannot log onto the multiplayer server is pissing me off. Just venting here boys. But seriously, am I the only one having this issue?
Yes I think you are the only one.
The password is just for the forum, so I just used a simple easy to remember password. Who cares if it gets hacked it's just for posting in the forum, nothing secure in there.
No it's your password for your member account. Frankly I wouldn't care if it was for the home and gardens forums. That really isn't the point. It's demanding that people have weak passwords for your account and that is not acceptable especially since some of these accounts have credit information available.
So got around to playing two games of "Sunday Drive" convoy scenario as the Germans. I lost the first game on the the second turn by which time four admittedly lucky shots had aced my halftrack and three trucks. I won the second game, but have discoved a slight problem: replayability. Once you play a scenario from either side, you sort of "remember" certain things (ie: location of landmines in a road hex, the row of houses where Russians troops spawn as reinforcements). Which means if I ever play that scenario again, I'll probably always take "the low road" increasing my chances of winning. Perhaps some kind of "random reinforcement area" feature needs to be includd.
When the scenario description says 'multiplayer only'....is that a suggestion or is it to be taken literally, as in; it can't be played solo because it has no AI?
I've heard of at least one person playing a multiplayer scenario solo.
I've loaded one and started it, playing a few phases in the first turn and there did seem to be an AI from what I recall...so I'd say it's a suggestion.
a little sad here that the singleplayer scenarios can't be played in multiplayer mode... maybe i'm just lucky but the ai seems a little weak in my fights (hard mode).
right now, 'a partisan defence' would be nice to play against a human... my partisans keep stalling the germans pretty soon and they keep passing until time runs out...
chem!
I haven't played that many scenarios yet as I'm doing this AAR so I couldn't possibly comment on how good/bad the AI is.
It kicked my backside 4 times in this scenario...though I do think that was likely down to my forgetting certain things (like not needing to close with the enemy, staying hidden, maximising results with op fire on a moving target in the open etc)
Quote from: chemkid on February 18, 2014, 03:17:42 AM
a little sad here that the singleplayer scenarios can't be played in multiplayer mode... maybe i'm just lucky but the ai seems a little weak in my fights (hard mode).
right now, 'a partisan defence' would be nice to play against a human... my partisans keep stalling the germans pretty soon and they keep passing until time runs out...
chem!
Single player scenarios aren't balanced when two humans play it.
Single player scenarios can be played multiplayer. There is nothing stopping you from doing that. They might be unbalanced for one side or the other but you can play them MP.
Also MP scenarios can be played solo. Jus that in some of them both sides need to purchase and place units and the AI won't do that. So you could end up on a battlefield all alone.... and that would be sad... :P
Quote from: Barthheart on February 20, 2014, 08:24:34 AM
Single player scenarios can be played multiplayer. There is nothing stopping you from doing that. They might be unbalanced for one side or the other but you can play them MP.
Also MP scenarios can be played solo. Jus that in some of them both sides need to purchase and place units and the AI won't do that. So you could end up on a battlefield all alone.... and that would be sad... :P
Can you turn on the AI after buying and deploying units?
Quote from: Marty Ward on February 20, 2014, 01:18:31 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 20, 2014, 08:24:34 AM
Single player scenarios can be played multiplayer. There is nothing stopping you from doing that. They might be unbalanced for one side or the other but you can play them MP.
Also MP scenarios can be played solo. Jus that in some of them both sides need to purchase and place units and the AI won't do that. So you could end up on a battlefield all alone.... and that would be sad... :P
Can you turn on the AI after buying and deploying units?
I think you are asking if you could start as a MP game then switch to a solo game? The answer is no.
Damn you all. I want this game in the worst way now.
Not really wanting to shell out $40 to Matrix, though. And waiting for a Matrix sale on this will be like waiting to see what I get reincarnated as in the afterlife. I might have a bullet to bite, here.
Quote from: Barthheart on February 20, 2014, 01:26:51 PM
Quote from: Marty Ward on February 20, 2014, 01:18:31 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 20, 2014, 08:24:34 AM
Single player scenarios can be played multiplayer. There is nothing stopping you from doing that. They might be unbalanced for one side or the other but you can play them MP.
Also MP scenarios can be played solo. Jus that in some of them both sides need to purchase and place units and the AI won't do that. So you could end up on a battlefield all alone.... and that would be sad... :P
Can you turn on the AI after buying and deploying units?
I think you are asking if you could start as a MP game then switch to a solo game? The answer is no.
That's what I was asking. Thanks.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 20, 2014, 01:31:00 PM
Damn you all. I want this game in the worst way now.
Not really wanting to shell out $40 to Matrix, though. And waiting for a Matrix sale on this will be like waiting to see what I get reincarnated as in the afterlife. I might have a bullet to bite, here.
This is a solid game BC. Well worth the $40.
Quote from: Jack Nastyface on February 17, 2014, 07:22:08 PM
So got around to playing two games of "Sunday Drive" convoy scenario as the Germans. I lost the first game on the the second turn by which time four admittedly lucky shots had aced my halftrack and three trucks. I won the second game, but have discoved a slight problem: replayability. Once you play a scenario from either side, you sort of "remember" certain things (ie: location of landmines in a road hex, the row of houses where Russians troops spawn as reinforcements). Which means if I ever play that scenario again, I'll probably always take "the low road" increasing my chances of winning. Perhaps some kind of "random reinforcement area" feature needs to be includd.
Same impression when I was beta testing this. It is more like a puzzle. But a lot of rule-based games are like this once you learn the moves with the most odds in your favor.
Just found a minor annoyance in "Sunday Drive" scenario.
Scenario conditions state that Soviet Union wins if 50% of vehicles are destroyed. Last game, on Turn 1, I lost the single truck that is on the board...which resulted in an immediate loss for me. I guess the game is calculating "50% of active vehicles, not including re-inforcements which show up on later turns". On another game, I had two trucks get a "shaken" result but the crews bailed out. Although I had a squad with MG and my Halftrack available to provide protective firepower, I immediately lost the game and had no chance to have the crews "remount" the trucks if they rallied.
I also note: Playing this game "electronically" is actually helping me better visual the flow of certain aspects of the boardgame, which is great. However, I am still somewhat puzzled by melee actions, and especially by the language the game uses to descibe melee results. It feels like when you are in a melee you are rolling to see if your side gets killed, not damage inflicted on the enemy. I guess I am going to have to replay the tutorials a few times.
I always saw the melee combat as the first Ross being against the opposition andthen your roll.
In melee you roll to do damage to the other guy.
If you move in then you roll first.
If the enemy moves in then they roll first to damage you.
If you both start in the hex, then whom ever chooses the melee action first rolls first.
Yes that does sound like a bug for the single truck on map getting killed and ending the scenario.
Your second case is a proper loss as you cannot re-enter abandoned vehicles.
I had the same problem.
I posted about it over at Matrix, but because of my poor descrption, it wasn´t noticed.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3551138
Tom's going to look at it.
Casualties being removed after both side roll. Melee can be pretty bloody. On a few occasions I've had both sides wipe each other out.
^Agreed...just had a Soviet hero take on a single german unit. Everyone dead.
What difficulty level is everyone playing at? Obviously NOT introductory...but is Normal normal, or should I be playing hard?
I'm playing introductory just now...just until I get my rules understood.
Hard is equivalent to the board game.
http://grogheads.com/?p=4017
"Here... Take a sip of vodka".
Really found that ridiculous. Cracks me up every time. Any other funny lines?
The Germans say "Let's get'em boys!" when they successfully rally.
The first recording didn't come out so well and sounded like they were saying "Let's get some boys!" :o
'Let's get me boys' still doesn't sound that great Barthheart.
Quote from: Keunert on February 24, 2014, 08:14:26 AM
'Let's get me boys' still doesn't sound that great Barthheart.
HAHA! Stupid auto correct on my iPad... fixed above.
The Wehrmacht committed many crimes. The paedophile thing would be news to me.
I always thought it was a sip of water.
And the cranial explosions begin as people discover Mark's whimsical side in the German campaign..... can't wait 'til they get to the Russian campaign stuff.... ;D
lmao - just read that - not a game breaker for me as some have said but its a bit weird!
I think Mark likes to see people's head explode.... read this... :D
http://overdaedge.blogspot.ca/2014/02/heroes-of-stalingrad-13-days-after.html
lol
He has a point
Wow...I did NOT expect to survive that.
Lucky on Turn 7 I realised I had 1 more arty strike and there were ALOT of Partisans surrounding my last few units...if the arty strike hadn't hit the spot, there were a lot of Russian units going to move in for Melee and take at least one of the last hexes!
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Campaign so far - after 3 missions
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Well done. How many tries did it take you?
Now the scenarios start to get fun and you start to get to upgrade and take a core with you.
Quote from: Barthheart on February 28, 2014, 06:36:42 AM
Well done. How many tries did it take you?
Now the scenarios start to get fun and you start to get to upgrade and take a core with you.
For that one, that was my first go. Yeah - I was astonished too!
It was partly luck. Discovering that arty left was a huge advantage at that part of the game...so many Russian units ready to pounce and all gathered round real close...just nice for an arty mission. If I had noticed I had that arty mission previously, I'd likely have used it up earlier...so some luck there I think.
I just discovered the core units. That was an unexpected bonus. I choose a STUG and upgraded it's To Hit I think and a rifle squad.
Well I'm kinda stuck now. :/
You may well have worked it out - but the trick here I think is two fold...
1. Ignore Shaken units - they ain't going anywhere. I say that because in this game when a shaken unit shows up, it's very cost effective to melee with it because it doesn't fight back...but here, you get them shaken, you leave em.
2. Artillery - make it count. Wait for some nice juicy targets to get together. I used one early on in the mission and forgot I had another. In truth the first one was pretty wasted and the second "forgotten" one saved the mission for me...so use them wisely and hope the roll goes for you.
That's all I've got. I'm sure BH has some tips ;)
Yeah. But when to retreat? The hero is very useful though because he can do defensive fire several times. Gotta keep him alive as long as possible.
Usually I don't retreat until I really need to, say turn 4 or 5, but you can retreat as early as the end of turn 2.
Just remember:
1) Only move your troops after all the Russians have acted or you will get shot to pieces.
2) Retreat in 2 steps. First step is to the foxholes. Try not to fire out of these as you have much less protection, when they fire back, than in the woods. Then retreat to the buildings, these have the best defence factor.
3) It's OK to leave someone behind, but not the hero or the leaders,.... they will hold up the Russians... brave sacrifice.
I didn't retreat until turn 4. Took some casualties too - but with that many Russians, you're going to.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 27, 2014, 05:50:59 PM
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Is it me or has anyone else been finding that the battle/campaign stats page is confusing as far as what the different categories in the columns and rows are supposed to mean?
Thanks,
Groggy
I'll be completely honest with you - I didn't analyse them.
But looking at them...a wee bit. Only really the eliminated rows - and even then I know that it's talking about your opponents eliminated units because in that scenario, there was no way I lost 8 squads.
Groggy, in what way are you finding them confusing ?
My apologies for not being clear and specific. I own the game but unfortunately I haven't had any time to sit down and play it lately. (home front duties.) I've been reading the threads about it both here and over on the Matrix Games forum. It's mostly the 'Enemy Units Shaken' row that is a bit confusing. Someone else over on the Matrix Games forum started a thread also about the battle stats page being confusing.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3551618 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3551618)
Thanks,
Groggy
I think it looks a bit confusing because it has "OWN" and "ENEMY" at the top...then the Enemy Units Shaken row. Maybe the values should be switched and the row states "Units SHAKEN"
I finally got past through this scenario without even giving up a single Victory hex. Satisfying to see a bunch of Russian move forward, turn to shaken status, fall back, and regroup to try another wave. Trick is to just turn everything you see to shaken as they can't shoot of move forward. Ignore those that are already shaken because they can't be revived without a leader or hero anyway.
Helpless Units Eliminated - That's an odd one?
One might expect
KIA
WIA
MIA
POW
Well, one could argue the number of enemy troops taken as prisoner. You could also argue the fighting in built up area being brutal and to the death (as a lot of Russians were willing to do from what I gather). But point is, it's a game and a Shaken unit is determined as being of no use.
They could be marked as KIA, MIA etc - but it's just a phrase...they are at least removed from the battle, regardless of how it's stated they are removed.
Are there any gameplay videos for the released version? I'd really like to see how the different phases work.
Try this one....
Or this one..
Sorry but the videos don't cut it, you need videos where some one explains what the heck is going on?
This game needs a demo!!!
Not to bang my drum - but I did an AAR...I don't know if it was detailed enough for what you're looking for or whether you're specifically looking for a video
^ lol - so did I. "Take a sip of water"...I always wondered how that was going to get them fired up! :P
Quote from: SgtRock on March 05, 2014, 04:47:38 PM
Sorry but the videos don't cut it, you need videos where some one explains what the heck is going on?
This game needs a demo!!!
Sorry to disappoint... Find yer own stuff then.
http://overdaedge.blogspot.com/2014/03/heroes-of-pacific-whats-next.html
Can't believe there are Scifi elements in this game, it's like the Panzerklankers in Silent Storm all over again! I was enjoying Silent Storm then ran into the missions with Mechs, never played it again. Any WWII game with Scifi elements just kills it for me. I can't take any WWII game serious that includes Mechs , optional or not:( What's next, Nazi Zombies from Mars expansion pack?
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3556197
"I designed 'em. They are as awesome as they are optional, a fact your post ignores. You don't have to play a single scenario with a Mech to complete the campaign."
The fact that any serious WWII wargame would even include scifi elements just baffles me!
Spoilers!
its already been discussed by Barthheart in another HoS area here - it is optional if you dont want to play it, not a deal breaker for me but apparentley its causing some upset and Marks not been very concialatory about it
Wow! Just Wow!
You would think that Mark had put in messages deriding everyone's mothers the way people are reacting to this stuff.
And the term 'Serious Wargame" just breaks me up.... it's friggin game! Lighten up Francis! ;D
Just wait until people get to the optional branch in the Russian campaign... I expect that people will show up at Mark's house with torches and pitch forks...... :o
Why can't a "Serious Wargame" have some fun elements in it?
Quote from: Barthheart on March 08, 2014, 08:37:25 PM
Wow! Just Wow!
You would think that Mark had put in messages deriding everyone's mothers the way people are reacting to this stuff.
And the term 'Serious Wargame" just breaks me up.... it's friggin game! Lighten up Francis! ;D
Just wait until people get to the optional branch in the Russian campaign... I expect that people will show up at Mark's house with torches and pitch forks...... :o
Why can't a "Serious Wargame" have some fun elements in it?
A John Tiller or Gary Grigsby game can't be fun because it doesn't have Zombies or Mechs, huh? Some things just don't belong, like ketchup on hot dogs! :o
Where does it say your getting a game with Scifi elements?
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/349/details/Mark.H..Walker%27s.Lock.%27n.Load:.Heroes.of.Stalingrad
Lock 'n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad- Based on the battles for Stalingrad in 1942, I did know they had Mechs in Stalingrad?
I think a demo would have better, then producing campaign missions with mechs!
Optional side missions made for fun?! We're serious wargamers! We accept no fun! We demand interfaces that look like a 15 year old version of Excel! We want logistics in our logistics and crowding out our logistics! We require mathematics to be run with our mechanical calculators to determine the odds of our flanking unit making it through a briar patch! And we'll absolutely throw a goddamn hissy fit the moment anyone ever DARES to give us something other than NATO counters!
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I don't know if there is a collection of gamers more likely to do their best to suck the joy out of any experience like the fun murdering, toddler tantrum throwing, pouty, whiny babies that are about 90% of wargamers.
Can you even imagine the screaming if Battlefront added space lobsters to a CM game? ;D
When did anyone start mistaking LnL products as 'serious' wargames, with or without the sci-fi elements? ;D
We interview Mark!
http://grogheads.com/?p=4073
So I'm in a campaign and I'm having a hell of a time with one mission. But this time, I thought I'd cracked it. I had all objectives - all 7 on turn 6. On turn 7, a wounded Soviet hero enters one of the hexes and melee starts. I'm not killed and neither is he...the hex is now NOT mine!
I think that's wrong - obviously because it's aggrieved me, but mainly because I had it and he was unable to wrestle it from me.
I had troops to put in that particular turn, and I did, but being the last turn it meant no further melee was going to occur
Kind of reminded me of the old "last turn rush" bollocks we used to get (do we still?)
Anyway - feeling robbed and rather pissed off. I've played this scenario at least 6 times and lost all previous 5 and thought I had played this smart.
i understand theyre fixing this
Good. Didn't seem right somehow. I know it "could've" been classed as contested - but on the last turn when you have no recourse - and it's melee - it kind of made it aaaaargh!
yeah i read they were 'softening' the victory conditions somewhere
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 25, 2014, 05:21:06 PM
yeah i read they were 'softening' the victory conditions somewhere
Where did you read that? Bunch on pansies... :P ;)
JD, yes that's a bug they are trying to squash. Not sure where it came from as I never saw in it testing, but saw it last night in my game against Mark.
I moved my troops to a hex containing a house. The route took me through a melee hex and it was shown to me but I let it continue because the melee was resolved and my troops stopped in the melee hex.
Now...I know that might look like a bug in itself, but I understand the rule of reinforcing melee and there are times when, even though the melee was resolved and there were no enemy units in there, that you might want to put troops in there (perhaps you understand that there might be more enemy troops heading into the hex)...so I get why they had to stop.
However, my problem is with the destination hex. If I click a hex to move units to, I think the route should be plotted to avoid the melee...because more often than not, you are deliberately not attempting to reinforce the melee...after all you are clicking a hex beyond the melee hex.
So the bug is that clicking any other hex than the melee hex means the route could still take you through the melee hex and stop you there even though you were clearly avoiding it.
I know it shows the route and should be down to you to avoid...and maybe it's too much work to program a re-route. But I did initially think my troops would go straight through because melee was over AND there were no enemy units in there....or perhaps even change the rule that if you click on any other hex and there are no enemy troops in the melee hex that your troops just move through. That would be easier than re-routing I would think...a simple check on the hex
IF ENEMYTROOPS=PRESENT then
//even if melee started or not....stop
STOP
ELSE
///regardless of melee status of hex...nothing to do
CONTINUE
ENDIF
:P
Not really a bug. The routing tool will only show you the shortest route to your destination hex. The routing tool also does not necessarily show you the safest route either so use it with caution.
And yes the rule is that whenever you enter a hex with a melee marker you stop... Doesn't matter if there are enemy units there or not.
Now there is nothing stopping you from requesting that the routing routine be changed to avoid melee hexes, but I don't think you want to change the melee hex rule.
See I would've thought the latter would've been a more sensible (and easier to code) option. I get the MELEE rule in the game and that's different because in the PC you are just clicking your destination hex. By the sheer fact you are not clicking on a MELEE hex you are indicating you do not want to reinforce that melee...which isn't quite the same in the boardgame when moving a hex at a time.
If they don't want to change the melee rule for fear of confusion between boardgame and PC game rules, then I can see that.
Whilst I always think there's a huge benefit to keeping a PC game in line with a boardgame, there are some intricacies where a slight change would be a benefit...and I see this as one.
I suppose...I suppose it could be that by having the melee hex there, you are forcing the player to another route and if that's part of the point of the rule, then it makes sense not to change it...because there is an additional function there...taking that hex out of use.
Thanks
Yes that's it because of the "time continuum thing". The melee is happening during the entire turn and if you move into that hex you get sucked into the furball.
It does make you have to take another route, which maybe less safe/more open to enemy fire, which can change your tactics for that turn.
The best change would be to have the auto route programmed to go around the melee hex.... but it really is just a tool for seeing how far yer troops can move in a turn.
Knowing all that I understand (I had forgotten about the continuum thing).
I don't think it's needed to be worried about now I know all this. I should've been more careful. It's slightly misleading showing you you can get to your destination hex through a melee hex though.
Put this to bed today (Just Another Village) as well as my ARMA III curse.
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I have a question about deployment. When I deploy a vehicle how do I change facing prior or at deployment?
They ALWAYS point top left...and in my latest map I'm attacking right.
I've searched the manual for FACING, DEPLOY, AUTO- (for finding auto-deploy)
Once you have deployed all your units you can then select each tank on the map and the rotate button at the bottom will now be active for you to turn the tank.
But it only becomes active once ALL your units have been placed.
I just choose Assault Move for one of my armour units. I moved it the number of hexes allowed and noticed it wasn't facing the direction I wanted it to...so I tried to turn it, and couldn't because it had no MPs left. But I opted to fire at the enemy unit anyway...and the vehicle made the turn automatically that I couldn't manually
Kind of sounds that way. Either the shot should have been nixed with the target out of arc or you should have been able to rotate. I would post this over on the Matrix bug forum for the game so Tom can look it over. A pic and/or save file would help him out too.
Not a bug. True you could not turn because you ran out of MP. But when you made the shot the program turn the tank for you and gave you a -1 modifier for turning to make the shot.
Same as the board game.
I noticed the -1 modifier for turning and had noticed it before
Thx
Whenever the die rolls for initiative are the same - the Soviets get the initiative - regardless of who had initiative the previous turn.
From what I remember, when the die roll was tied, the side with the initiative the previous turn got the initiative.
Yep, that's a bug.... :P
YES!
My work here is done ;)
BH - whilst I've got your attention....
...when a crew bails from a tank - but the tank was ok...can they be "unshaken" and get back in the tank?
I never really got round to much armour action in the board game so I'm a bit fumbly with armour and other vehicles and finding my way by trial and error
Nope. Once abandoned, a vehicle cannot be re-entered.
PS and the bug has been around for a while..... ;)
Bugger. I need to restart this scenario then :(
Quote from: Barthheart on April 03, 2014, 01:54:36 PM
Nope. Once abandoned, a vehicle cannot be re-entered.
PS and the bug has been around for a while..... ;)
lol - well...I noticed it for a while...but I've just got round to reporting it...no na na nana na! :)
Hopefully I'm not necro-ing this thread too badly...
Are folks still playing this? I have to admit that I'm having a hard time with it, mostly because I can't seem to find a zoom level that works for me. There just seems to be a lot on the screen with a lot of map obscured. Any tips on settings that might help?
Quote from: panzerde on April 27, 2014, 04:35:02 PM
Hopefully I'm not necro-ing this thread too badly...
Are folks still playing this? I have to admit that I'm having a hard time with it, mostly because I can't seem to find a zoom level that works for me. There just seems to be a lot on the screen with a lot of map obscured. Any tips on settings that might help?
I'm interested in more discussion of this as well, still haven't decided if I want to take the plunge or not, so reading with interest.
You can turn off the UI with the F2 key. What update are you using? The zooming has been updated so there is more levels.
I'm still playing and try to play MP at least once a week.
If you have other questions please feel free to ask. :)
Quote from: Barthheart on April 27, 2014, 07:03:58 PM
You can turn off the UI with the F2 key. What update are you using? The zooming has been updated so there is more levels.
I updated to 1.07 yesterday when I decided to give it another go. Even with the update I found it really tough to get a view I liked. It may be that I just need to get used to it and what I think I need to see (the entire board) I don't really need to see. I'll try F2 and see if it helps. Until I really get the rules though, I suspect I'll need to keep it on more than off!
Quote
If you have other questions please feel free to ask. :)
Thanks, I appreciate it. I really want to like this, it seems as close to ASL as you can get these days in a computer game.
Quote from: Barthheart on April 27, 2014, 07:03:58 PM
You can turn off the UI with the F2 key. What update are you using? The zooming has been updated so there is more levels.
I'm still playing and try to play MP at least once a week.
If you have other questions please feel free to ask. :)
Thanks for the encouragement to give this another try. I've played it quite a bit this weekend and its rapidly becoming a favorite now that I'm getting the hang of it. I've posted some observations on my blog.
I'm interested to try the editor soon.
Quote from: panzerde on May 04, 2014, 09:41:16 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on April 27, 2014, 07:03:58 PM
You can turn off the UI with the F2 key. What update are you using? The zooming has been updated so there is more levels.
I'm still playing and try to play MP at least once a week.
If you have other questions please feel free to ask. :)
Thanks for the encouragement to give this another try. I've played it quite a bit this weekend and its rapidly becoming a favorite now that I'm getting the hang of it. I've posted some observations on my blog.
I'm interested to try the editor soon.
Where is your blog? Might be nice to take a look and keep it as a place to visit.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 05, 2014, 04:28:46 AM
Where is your blog? Might be nice to take a look and keep it as a place to visit.
Sure thing! I'm at http://panzerde.blogspot.com. Thanks for taking a look!
All Heroes of Stalingrad threads are merged into here effective 5/30/14
Cool. I think this was a good idea and look forward to the next game that gets the same treatment.
I'm curious how many people finished either of the campaigns. I've enjoyed the game, but some of the scenarios just irritate me... Mostly the defensive ones where the russians just keep hammering at you.
maitre bongo is giving ALL HIS LOVE to L'n'L HoS - modded scenarios of all the original moduleshttp://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4222442
QuoteSince the appearance of this game, my wish was to be able to play all the original modules of Lock'n load that I own with this game engine because of the difficulty of finding human opponents and the time to deploy all the material on my table.
So I created mods that allow me to do this and it works rather well (making some adaptations on the specificities of each module, of course).
It has been several years since this game is no longer really supported by its developers and I think they will never publish a sequel to this episode.
So I decided to post here the mods I made so that the whole community who still plays this game can enjoy it.
The modules I have realized are:
- Heroes of the Blitzkrieg
- In defeat Defiance
- Band of Heroes
- Swift and Bolt
- Noville Bastogne Outpost
- Heroes of the Pacific
- Forgotten Heroes Vietnam
- Heroes of the Gap
- Honneur et Patrie
- A Ring of Hill
It is distressing to note that with a little extra effort, the developers could have arrived at this result (and even much more)... Too bad.
I'm reorganizing the files that make up these modules and make them to fit for a clean installation.
In the coming weeks, I will post them at the top of this topic.
I hope there are still people playing this game.
:notworthy:
Sweet! I have Heroes of the Motherland, Heroes of Normandy, and the solitaire module on pre-order.. ;-) This will make a nice companion piece.
This almost sells me on buying HoS.
Curious....is this thread about the board game or its computer version? Or both?
Might have to re-install my copy :)
Quote from: Rayfer on January 28, 2017, 11:44:39 AM
Curious....is this thread about the board game or its computer version? Or both?
Computer version.
I did some thread necromancing over at Matrix. I had remembered that there was a thread on the Heros of the Gap mod. It doesn't support thermals, modern fire control, units with two main weapons (like an M2 or BMP), etc. So there are some serious limitations around modern combat.
Heroes of the Pacific mod posted. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4222442&mpage
Does anyone know if there was a patch for the German campaign. I was asked by Sauron the other day, and the only person I could think of who might know was Barthheart. Can any of you drop him an email or PM him to let him know if he can patch the game now? Thanks. :)
Don't think there were any more patches.... but I'll poke around and see what I can find.
I think Lock 'N Load Heroes of Stalingrad Update v1.10 patch was the last one.
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/349/downloads/Mark.H..Walker's.Lock.'n.Load:.Heroes.of.Stalingrad
Interesting mods. I never got past the first mission of the stock campaign.
Quote from: panzerde on April 27, 2014, 04:35:02 PM
Hopefully I'm not necro-ing this thread too badly...
Are folks still playing this? I have to admit that I'm having a hard time with it, mostly because I can't seem to find a zoom level that works for me. There just seems to be a lot on the screen with a lot of map obscured. Any tips on settings that might help?
I had this exact thing on my 1024x768 desktop, you have to set desktop res higher and then the clutter shrinks ok, someone should tell people about this.
Quote from: -budd- on January 30, 2017, 04:02:26 PM
Heroes of the Pacific mod posted. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4222442&mpage
thankyou for this mod link, it great, Id buy the game of this DLC.
Quote from: gameleaper on February 06, 2017, 01:19:46 AM
Quote from: -budd- on January 30, 2017, 04:02:26 PM
Heroes of the Pacific mod posted. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4222442&mpage
thankyou for this mod link, it great, Id buy the game of this DLC.
There will not be any more development of this PC game. Lock n Load Publishing is working on their own PC conversion and it won't involve the current PC game at all.
thanks for the info Barthheart , I must say I replayed this game after seeing the mods, and I would say its more like the boardgame than any I ever played, I have lots of wargames, but this is what I want from a game. I sure wish for more of the same.
I honestly thought HoS was done better than any boardgame conversion in recent memory and am surprised it wasn't more widely praised. The production value was excellent imo. I am not crazy about the spotting rules but that is more a critique on the game system than the program.
that's true but the whole boardgame to digital thing on matrix/slitherine has a 'somewhat' similar vibe/smell to it.
i hope i'm wrong but what i felt on the CoH forums when things were moving and the game was fresh was sooo good. it died down and the flame is burning very low since... along came HoS and what a surprise!! great game, graphics, gameplay and devs who cared. even the designer was having fun - it seemed... for some time. it died, too! funny, i'm a sucker for these type of conversions and guess what - i bought HoN on release - even bought the DLC's! what can i say... feels a little like it's time for 'REWIND, where's my DJ?!!' - no, really - i hope i'm wrong and the devs finish what what they started with HoN!!!
you know what - i bought the boardgame for CoH along with that awesome solo AI - stuff of legend, man!!!
cheers!
chem!
Good board game does not make a good computer game.
It gets really "gamey" and outcomes depend on how you master of the game mechanics than real life tactics. But it's hard to master the inner calculations that affect results since the task was taken away from you. Therefore the tooltips must be as detailed as possible on all the modifiers applied.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4222442
now has the new module
Module #3 : Vietnam module version 1.0
aswell as the new Mod, I have just noticed new scenarios added to the scenarios & Mods section
Quote from: jomni on February 07, 2017, 02:43:09 AM
Good board game does not make a good computer game.
It gets really "gamey" and outcomes depend on how you master of the game mechanics than real life tactics. But it's hard to master the inner calculations that affect results since the task was taken away from you. Therefore the tooltips must be as detailed as possible on all the modifiers applied.
The obvious point seems to be missed with these boardgame to computer game conversions: what made the boardgame so great is the physical components, the roll of the dice, conducting the combat and finding the results yourself, moving the pieces and in most cases, the face to face game play- all of which are missing with a computer game. If you slap an inadequate AI on top of a game that does everything for you and you play it a few times and then move on. That's my experience at least, YMMV.
Quote from: GJK on February 07, 2017, 09:01:52 PM
Quote from: jomni on February 07, 2017, 02:43:09 AM
Good board game does not make a good computer game.
It gets really "gamey" and outcomes depend on how you master of the game mechanics than real life tactics. But it's hard to master the inner calculations that affect results since the task was taken away from you. Therefore the tooltips must be as detailed as possible on all the modifiers applied.
The obvious point seems to be missed with these boardgame to computer game conversions: what made the boardgame so great is the physical components, the roll of the dice, conducting the combat and finding the results yourself, moving the pieces and in most cases, the face to face game play- all of which are missing with a computer game. If you slap an inadequate AI on top of a game that does everything for you and you play it a few times and then move on. That's my experience at least, YMMV.
GJK....I think you nailed it for many of us (well, at least for me :-\ )....I loved Advanced Squad Leader back in the day but the PC games that are like it just don't do it for me. I think your comments are why.
Quote from: GJK on February 07, 2017, 09:01:52 PM
Quote from: jomni on February 07, 2017, 02:43:09 AM
Good board game does not make a good computer game.
It gets really "gamey" and outcomes depend on how you master of the game mechanics than real life tactics. But it's hard to master the inner calculations that affect results since the task was taken away from you. Therefore the tooltips must be as detailed as possible on all the modifiers applied.
The obvious point seems to be missed with these boardgame to computer game conversions: what made the boardgame so great is the physical components, the roll of the dice, conducting the combat and finding the results yourself, moving the pieces and in most cases, the face to face game play- all of which are missing with a computer game. If you slap an inadequate AI on top of a game that does everything for you and you play it a few times and then move on. That's my experience at least, YMMV.
well wrote, but I have to say HoS is a good boardgame conversion, I like it because it has all the dice rolls etc.. I cant believe I have not played it more,.
I'm coming late to the party because this game happens to be on sale right now at Matrix.
What is the concensus about this one? Is it any good?
I've always had trouble relating to the Tiller tactical games (the way they handle ammunition doesn't ring true and it bothers me that they aren't WEGO), and during my brief stint playing Squad Leader (not even ASL!) I always wished there were more Stalingrad scenarios.
How does it compare to Steel Panthers? Was it a flash in the pan or is this worth trying?
It's more like Tigers on the Hunt. Both are similar to the old board game Advanced Squad Leader. I very much preferred Tigers on the Hunt. There are even mods to make the counters look like the old ASL board game. The maps look the same too. HoS never clicked with me. I found the spotting rules onerous. I'm sure others will have different opinions.
Which one would not allow stacking? Wasn't it one of these two?
Quote from: Philippe on August 17, 2017, 10:24:41 AM
I'm coming late to the party because this game happens to be on sale right now at Matrix.
What is the concensus about this one? Is it any good?
I've always had trouble relating to the Tiller tactical games (the way they handle ammunition doesn't ring true and it bothers me that they aren't WEGO), and during my brief stint playing Squad Leader (not even ASL!) I always wished there were more Stalingrad scenarios.
How does it compare to Steel Panthers? Was it a flash in the pan or is this worth trying?
It wasn't my cup of tea. I found the pace way too "deliberate" (feel free to make your own interpretation ;)), and some aspects just ahistoric.
I know Sauron40 and Barthheart gave it a good run on MP, but there were game killing bugs (IIRC in the campaign), which AFAIK have never been fixed in a patch. Sauro40 tends to visit without posting, but Barthheart obviously does. I think JudgeDredd has also played it a fair bit too, so probably those guys have some sensible comments (and likely in favour) on it.
It's nothing like Steel Panther's but more like ASL. I like Steel Panther's far more than HoS. Mark Bellizzi (a well known Stalingrad fanboy - actually he's quite an authority on the subject) has done an excellent Stalingrad campaign for Steel Panther's, which I can recommend.
Quote from: chemkid on January 28, 2017, 03:47:23 AM
maitre bongo is giving ALL HIS LOVE to L'n'L HoS - modded scenarios of all the original modules
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4222442
QuoteSince the appearance of this game, my wish was to be able to play all the original modules of Lock'n load that I own with this game engine because of the difficulty of finding human opponents and the time to deploy all the material on my table.
So I created mods that allow me to do this and it works rather well (making some adaptations on the specificities of each module, of course).
It has been several years since this game is no longer really supported by its developers and I think they will never publish a sequel to this episode.
So I decided to post here the mods I made so that the whole community who still plays this game can enjoy it.
The modules I have realized are:
- Heroes of the Blitzkrieg
- In defeat Defiance
- Band of Heroes
- Swift and Bolt
- Noville Bastogne Outpost
- Heroes of the Pacific
- Forgotten Heroes Vietnam
- Heroes of the Gap
- Honneur et Patrie
- A Ring of Hill
It is distressing to note that with a little extra effort, the developers could have arrived at this result (and even much more)... Too bad.
I'm reorganizing the files that make up these modules and make them to fit for a clean installation.
In the coming weeks, I will post them at the top of this topic.
I hope there are still people playing this game.
:notworthy:
I may be averse to HoS for various reasons, but the fact that you can use all these modules for free with the game is - in a word - "impressive".
Quote from: Philippe on August 17, 2017, 10:24:41 AM
I'm coming late to the party because this game happens to be on sale right now at Matrix.
What is the concensus about this one? Is it any good?
I've always had trouble relating to the Tiller tactical games (the way they handle ammunition doesn't ring true and it bothers me that they aren't WEGO), and during my brief stint playing Squad Leader (not even ASL!) I always wished there were more Stalingrad scenarios.
How does it compare to Steel Panthers? Was it a flash in the pan or is this worth trying?
Did the sale end already or is 39 the sale price?
$39 is the regular price. You have to use the sale code to get 30% off.
http://www.matrixgames.com/
HoS is nothing like Steel Panthers.
HoS is a direct port of the board game system used in LNLP's Lock 'n Load Tactical System of squad level combat. Right down to using the same art as the board game for maps and counters.
It also uses the same rules as the board game.
I've been playing the LnLT system for more than 10 years now and I worked with Mark Walker's team on the computer game... so that's my bias.
I liked the computer game very much because it plays exactly like the board game. If fact, if you get the computer game a play for a bit, it will teach all the rules for the board game.
If you don't like squad level WWII board games you won't like this.
If you think ASL is the only good squad level WWII board game then you probably won't like this.
If you enjoy different systems of squad level WWII board games you might actually enjoy this.
Yes there are some bugs in the campaigns... but I think they can be worked around.... been awhile since I played. The support of the computer game was dropped when Mark Walker sold LnLP to David Heath. David is apparently working an a new computer version of the LnLT system. No idea of the progress here.