A shame, although you could see the writing on the wall for a while now:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?760477-A-joint-statement-from-BL-Logic-and-Paradox-Interactive! (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?760477-A-joint-statement-from-BL-Logic-and-Paradox-Interactive!)
:-[
76 pages of comments already :o That should give Paradox some indication that there was a lot of interest in this game.
The devs must have really pissed off Paradox. Missing/delaying deadlines doesn't help, but damn, that sucks.
Quote from: steve58 on March 07, 2014, 01:15:59 PM
76 pages of comments already :o That should give Paradox some indication that there was a lot of interest in this game.
My post started the 80th page in the thread....for all the good it will do.
The complete cancellation of EvW comes as a bit of a surprise, to me at least. When they announced the 'open beta' idea not too long ago, it was clearly a "we're trying our best to salvage this sinking project" moment. But I didn't expect Pdox to put the kibosh on the whole thing -- at least, not so soon after floating the open beta idea.
East vs. West had been in development for over a year and a half. Johan first announced it in a thread as Project Reagan on 25 June 2012.
Such a waste of time and resources.
And the second time something similar happens in two years. This thing of the mod-turned-game seems to have not worked well for Paradox, after the two HoI mod-turned-game titles.
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on March 08, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
And the second time something similar happens in two years. This thing of the mod-turned-game seems to have not worked well for Paradox, after the two HoI mod-turned-game titles.
Yeah, wouldn't surprise me if the mod-turned-game concept is now officially mothballed as far as Pdox is concerned. First MagnaMundi now this.
Im still hopeful about Road to Moscow being released. ???
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 08, 2014, 09:30:32 AM
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on March 08, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
And the second time something similar happens in two years. This thing of the mod-turned-game seems to have not worked well for Paradox, after the two HoI mod-turned-game titles.
Yeah, wouldn't surprise me if the mod-turned-game concept is now officially mothballed as far as Pdox is concerned. First MagnaMundi now this.
I'm not sure if the older ones that were finished, based on HOI2 and EU2, every sold much either. By the time some of those were out, the newer EU3 and HOI3 were out or soon to be and people just went for those.
Well, perhaps all is not lost. There is a new Indiegogo project called
Project Kennedy, that may be a replacement for East vs West. They only want $480,000 :-\. I'll keep an eye on this, but I dunno...
From Bluesnews (http://www.bluesnews.com/s/149746/east-vs-west-cancelled-knocked):
Quote
East vs. West Cancelled; Knocked
[Mar 09, 2014, 12:49 pm ET] - 2 Comments
The Paradox Interactive Forums have an announcement from a couple of days ago revealing that development of East vs. West has been cancelled. This planned standalone Hearts of Iron game was originally a modification before becoming a commercial project under the guidance of Paradox. "As the project has been severly [sic] delayed we dont [sic] think that open beta / early acccess [sic] could, within our desired timeline, meet the set criteria," explains Paradox CEO Fredrik Wester. "It has been a journey of ups and downs since we started the development of East Vs West back in May 2011. We wish each other nothing but the best with future endeavors."
In an unusual twist, the Indiegogo campaign for Project Kennedy, a Cold War grand strategy game, throws the Bl-Logic team under the tank over failure to deliver (thanks Joao): "Note: We worked on past Paradox and Bl-Logic games. We are not the complete team from Bl-Logic that worked on East vs. West and eventually FAILED horribly to deliver a final product by 6. March 2014. They had a quarter million euros in budget and 4 years time to develop their title and still blew it. We know these guys, their bad management and we know how buggy their latest version was. This kickstarter here is definitly [sic] independent from them. They did not get it done, but we will. We are professionals, we stick to deadlines, we deliver quality and we know what counts."
I've never used Indiegogo, but this part bothers me. There are 2 types of funding in Indiegogo: fixed and flexible.
Quote
(from FAQs)
What if I don't reach my funding goal?
If your campaign is set up as Flexible Funding, you will be able to keep the funds you raise, even if you don't meet your goal. If your campaign is set up as Fixed Funding, all contributions will be returned to your funders if you do not meet your goal.
Project Kennedy is setup as flexible:
Quote
Flexible Funding
This campaign will receive all funds raised even if it does not reach its goal. Funding duration: March 06, 2014 - May 05, 2014 (11:59pm PT).
^Ouch!
...and this also bothers me. From the
Project Kennedy Indiegogo page discussing their options: A) get the full $480,000, or B)
Quote
What We Need & What You Get
A reasonable estimation is that we will require around 480.000,- USD for all technology, manpower, licences and development expenses to build a game from scratch.
A more econmoic alternative is Option B, where we will buy 2 development licences to access Europa (HoI2) and Clausewitz (HoI3) engines. We will then salvage parts that are left over from the East vs. West development and integrate what we deem to have worth into our game.
...if they were not part of the
East vs West team, how are they going to salvage code from it? ??? Is Paradox/BL-Logic just going to give it to them? Thinking, I'm going to watch this one from the sidelines....
They said they were not the complete team. They must have access to some of the resources or know that Paradox still does.
I get the impression that these guys were part of the EvW development team but bailed at some point. That still doesn't guarantee they'll get their hands on the code legitimately.
Quote from: steve58 on March 09, 2014, 04:24:23 PM
A reasonable estimation is that we will require around 480.000,- USD for all technology, manpower, licences and development expenses to build a game from scratch.
A more econmoic alternative is Option B, where we will buy 2 development licences to access Europa (HoI2) and Clausewitz (HoI3) engines. We will then salvage parts that are left over from the East vs. West development and integrate what we deem to have worth into our game.
So, they intend to buy not one but two licenses from Paradox, assuming they will sell them, and then will salvage what they want from East vs. West in order to produce a new game? Sounds like a pretty shaky foundation to raise half a mil on, to say the least.
i dont think pdox will let anyone near the clausewitz engine - thats one of the reasons they havent released the half finished game to the public to finish
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 08, 2014, 11:51:58 AM
Im still hopeful about Road to Moscow being released. ???
What ever happened to that?
GMT also cancels Twilight Struggle for PC.
Such a shame. The HOI game base would have been perfect for a 1950's US v USSR game. I wonder if they just don't think it would sell. As much as I bitch about all of the WW2 games (like upcoming HOI4), I am the minority and that war makes gaming companies money.
Not a lot of Cold War historians I suppose
Quote from: endfire79 on March 10, 2014, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 08, 2014, 11:51:58 AM
Im still hopeful about Road to Moscow being released. ???
What ever happened to that?
evidently it went on a date with my PitF review. ::)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 10, 2014, 08:43:09 PM
Quote from: endfire79 on March 10, 2014, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 08, 2014, 11:51:58 AM
Im still hopeful about Road to Moscow being released. ???
What ever happened to that?
evidently it went on a date with my PitF review. ::)
In a '76 Mercury Bobcat at the bottom of a ravine below a sharp roadway bend with a missing length of guard rail?
There's a fundamental problem with simulating a war that no one really wants to start but almost started but didn't.
Doing what-if battles are easy. Doing the geopolitical side right is hard. Only a few have succeeded.
Quote from: jomni on March 11, 2014, 12:44:55 AM
There's a fundamental problem with simulating a war that no one really wants to start but almost started but didn't.
Doing what-if battles are easy. Doing the geopolitical side right is hard. Only a few have succeeded.
^this
Watching the EvW development the last year or so, this was always in the back of my mind. Not "how will they simulate proxy wars, or Vietnam etc." -- that should be relatively easy -- but "how will they pull off an interesting simulation of the geopolitics, the arms race, intelligence gathering" -- all the stuff just short of a shooting war that was the essence of the Cold War. Because if the game just routinely devolved into open war between NATO / USSR, that wouldn't be a very interesting simulation. The game would have to find a way to make the incentive 'not' to go to war really high, and find a way to make 'not' going to war actually more fun than going to war, which should be seen as a strategic failure. So I was always wondering how they would square the circle of creating a game for wargamers where the point was fundamentally to avoid open conflict... Guess we'll never really find out now.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobygames.com%2Fimages%2Fshots%2Fl%2F1732-balance-of-power-the-1990-edition-dos-screenshot-it-s-the-end.gif&hash=df6d78865d941282c9ef882ab1357bf0f8cfadcc)
:)
Of course, the BiLogic crew really should have gotten their hands on this baby -- would have made their programming task so much simpler:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimsai.net%2Fmovies%2FWOPR.jpg&hash=aee4d66720100216995c05264f74153e91b4dc92)
...a response from BL-Logic about "Project Kennedy". No surprises here.
"It's a fraud and they can't salvage parts of East vs West not even a single byte." (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?760477-A-joint-statement-from-BL-Logic-and-Paradox-Interactive!&s=287205ce158ccde1e3498866d7b52c9b&p=17047300&viewfull=1#post17047300)
This:
Quote from: steve58 on March 09, 2014, 03:45:15 PM
....Project Kennedy is setup as flexible:
Quote
Flexible Funding
This campaign will receive all funds raised even if it does not reach its goal. Funding duration: March 06, 2014 - May 05, 2014 (11:59pm PT).
Plus this:
Quote from: steve58 on March 12, 2014, 04:18:27 PM
...a response from BL-Logic about "Project Kennedy". No surprises here.
"It's a fraud and they can't salvage parts of East vs West not even a single byte." (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?760477-A-joint-statement-from-BL-Logic-and-Paradox-Interactive!&s=287205ce158ccde1e3498866d7b52c9b&p=17047300&viewfull=1#post17047300)
Make Project Kennedy something to stay the hell away from.
Quote from: tgb on March 11, 2014, 10:36:05 AM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobygames.com%2Fimages%2Fshots%2Fl%2F1732-balance-of-power-the-1990-edition-dos-screenshot-it-s-the-end.gif&hash=df6d78865d941282c9ef882ab1357bf0f8cfadcc)
Balance of Power. I saw that screen all too many times.
For those who might want to give it a shot (I might - I just downloaded the manual from the developers website), Us and Them is now on Steam for $8.49
I didn't care for this game...it's been available for quite some time.
I hear Us and Them is not very good. It has UI issues apparently and is heavy on the micromanagement. You can try a demo on the Icehole games website. Also I hear Che Geverra is overpowered. I think if you really want a cold war fix You'd be better off buying the Twilight Struggle boardgame or playing it on Vassal.
The demo left me underwhelmed. The resolution is fixed at 1024x768 with no way to change it from what I can see, but odder still is that the game starts in 1965 - years past some significant cold war events.
I tried playing Us & Them again, a couple days ago.
The interface is indeed a pain because the resolution is locked at 1024x768, however the little map symbols you must click to select are still quite tiny. I also had some of the text running off the display at the top.
I could get past all that if the gameplay was interesting, but it's just a matter of sending your spies to scout out countries, giving assassinate orders to eliminate enemy agents that are being troublesome, and just issuing an overall order for your other agents to perform various types of sabotage in their current location if the success chance is above a specified threshold.
The game mechanics aren't all that interesting. I may have to finally get Twilight Struggle sometime since the other possible option, Supreme Ruler: Cold War probably still has it's warts. :'(
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2014, 12:38:07 PM
I may have to finally get Twilight Struggle sometime since the other possible option, Supreme Ruler: Cold War probably still has it's warts. :'(
I hope you aren't planning to get the PC version. You may be disappointed.
Quote from: tgb on March 19, 2014, 02:45:26 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2014, 12:38:07 PM
I may have to finally get Twilight Struggle sometime since the other possible option, Supreme Ruler: Cold War probably still has it's warts. :'(
I hope you aren't planning to get the PC version. You may be disappointed.
Nope. Especially since it will never exist. :P
Very strange twist....seems like the unfinished code was leaked and published to various places for download where people can play it based on how it stands now....
I am not interested in doing it myself...but thought was a weird twist to this saga....
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 16, 2014, 06:42:56 PM
Very strange twist....seems like the unfinished code was leaked and published to various places for download where people can play it based on how it stands now....
I am not interested in doing it myself...but thought was a weird twist to this saga....
I so wanted that game. Anybody have link to safe download?
Quote from: fabius on June 16, 2014, 07:05:43 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 16, 2014, 06:42:56 PM
Very strange twist....seems like the unfinished code was leaked and published to various places for download where people can play it based on how it stands now....
I am not interested in doing it myself...but thought was a weird twist to this saga....
I so wanted that game. Anybody have link to safe download?
As it's not an official release, any link to illegal downloads, safe or not, will not be cool.
Can you imagine playing a game that was too unfinished and buggy for paradox to deal with?(crusader kings excepted of course)
All threads on that forum locked? Disgusting.
I'll never use vendor forums ever again.
Quote from: mikeck on June 16, 2014, 08:12:05 PM
Can you imagine playing a game that was too unfinished and buggy for paradox to deal with?(crusader kings excepted of course)
Sword of the Stars 2
Quote from: tgb on June 16, 2014, 09:34:05 PM
Quote from: mikeck on June 16, 2014, 08:12:05 PM
Can you imagine playing a game that was too unfinished and buggy for paradox to deal with?(crusader kings excepted of course)
Sword of the Stars 2
Zang!
I still intend to try it out in it's current form sometime. But so many games.. even space 4Xes left to play!
.
Yep...and my point is that paradox ran the full race with those two games. Imagine what kind of shape East v West was in that caused Paradox to say "we think this game is to jacked up to publish". I wouldn't kill yourself trying to find a download version. Play HOI 3 and just pretend
i was looking for any remnants of a thread on the Pdox forum this morning and saw 'Game of Thrones' and 'LOTR' threads - i thought i was in the HOI 3 subforum, i was very excited
im unsure whether a GOT/LOTR mod for HOI would be a good idea
Quote from: undercovergeek on June 17, 2014, 07:03:31 AM
i was looking for any remnants of a thread on the Pdox forum this morning and saw 'Game of Thrones' and 'LOTR' threads - i thought i was in the HOI 3 subforum, i was very excited
im unsure whether a GOT/LOTR mod for HOI would be a good idea
I still haven't played the Game of Thrones mod for either Crusader Kings version. The base game always kept me busy enough. Would like to some time, however.
The last time I went to check out the mod and d/l it, the creator had just switched to the new version that also contained all the lands of the East. The expanded one. But it had a fair amount of bug issues at that time, so I decided to wait it awhile.
Quote from: Nefaro on June 17, 2014, 08:41:34 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on June 17, 2014, 07:03:31 AM
i was looking for any remnants of a thread on the Pdox forum this morning and saw 'Game of Thrones' and 'LOTR' threads - i thought i was in the HOI 3 subforum, i was very excited
im unsure whether a GOT/LOTR mod for HOI would be a good idea
I still haven't played the Game of Thrones mod for either Crusader Kings version. The base game always kept me busy enough. Would like to some time, however.
The last time I went to check out the mod and d/l it, the creator had just switched to the new version that also contained all the lands of the East. The expanded one. But it had a fair amount of bug issues at that time, so I decided to wait it awhile.
agreed vanilla CKII has always kept me happy - never felt the urge to try a big mod
but HOI 3 LOTR????
Quote from: mikeck on June 17, 2014, 06:58:33 AM
Yep...and my point is that paradox ran the full race with those two games. Imagine what kind of shape East v West was in that caused Paradox to say "we think this game is to jacked up to publish". I wouldn't kill yourself trying to find a download version. Play HOI 3 and just pretend
So many HoI and Vic mods set out for cold war or modern period; but none seem to ever get 'finished'.
There just isn't a decent grand strategy game out there covering Cold War/ modern
In tempted to get this. http://www.thecoldwarera.com/download.html
Quote from: jomni on June 18, 2014, 12:42:05 AM
In tempted to get this. http://www.thecoldwarera.com/download.html
Interesting that I never heard of this...but after watching the video,seems way too simplistic and not much to do. Read a couple of player reviews on gamersgate that seem to support that. There is a free limited version available so best to try that first.