QuoteSearch and rescue crews from several countries were scrambling Saturday to locate a Malaysia Airlines plane with 239 people aboard, including three Americans, that disappeared after losing contact with air traffic control on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
The airline said the Boeing 777-200 "lost contact" with Subang Air Traffic Control at 2:40 a.m., two hours into the flight. The plane, which carried passengers mostly from China but also from other Asian countries, North America and Europe, had been expected to land in Beijing at 6:30 a.m. Saturday
China's state-run news agency Xinhua reported the plane was lost in airspace controlled by Vietnam, and never made contact with Chinese air traffic controllers. There have been no reports of a plane crashing into Chinese waters, and China is assisting the airline in its search for the plane.
The plane is carrying 239 passengers, including two infants, and 12 crew members. The airline said in a statement that the passengers are of 14 different nationalities and the airline is currently notifying next-of-kin about the situation.
"Our thoughts and prayers are with all affected passengers and crew and their family members," Malaysian Airlines CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya said.
Those aboard included 152 passengers from China, 38 from Malaysia, seven from Indonesia, six from Australia, five from India, three from the U.S., and others from Indonesia, France, New Zealand, Canada, Ukraine, Russia, Italy, Taiwan, the Netherlands and Austria.
"We are extremely worried,'' Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told reporters in Beijing. "We are doing all we can to get details. The news is very disturbing. We hope everyone on the plane is safe."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/08/malaysia-airlines-loses-contact-with-plane-carrying-23-people/
Considering the time-difference and whatnot I think it highly unlikely that the plane did anything but crash in a remote area. If it were ok it would have shown up somewhere by now. The only (highly unlikely) positive scenario would be that it lost comms and had to land at some disused AF somewhere in the middle of nowhere and local officials have not yet reported the plane's arrival. A crash-landing is another unlikely possibility since those usually happen at airports with good safety and fire-suppression teams and vehicles.
There has been a report (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/08/malaysia-airlines-loses-contact-with-plane-carrying-23-people/) that Vietnamese air force planes spotted two oil slicks in the area where the plane vanished.
No mayday?
At least two people listed on the passenger manifest are still alive...and coincidentally had their passports stolen in Thailand. Add that to two 5+ mile oil slicks and it's looking like this one may have been blown up in flight. Truly sad. Either security is more lax in Malaysia or terrorists just discovered another, not yet detectable, explosive device.
Now the question is "Who"? The stolen passports were Austrian and Italian.
Sad news. :-\ After the recent knife attack in China (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/02/gang-knife-wielding-men-in-deadly-attacks-on-china-train-station/), and now throw in a couple stolen passports and a missing airliner, I'm wondering if this is yet another terrorist attack.
Quote from: steve58 on March 08, 2014, 05:21:59 PM
Sad news. :-\ After the recent knife attack in China (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/02/gang-knife-wielding-men-in-deadly-attacks-on-china-train-station/), and now throw in a couple stolen passports and a missing airliner, I'm wondering if this is yet another terrorist attack.
Given the knife attacks and that the plane was bound for China you have to think that there's some relation. The European Passport part is throwing me. Why an Italian and an Austrian?
What does your avatar mean? What is the significance of the Sphinx?
Always vigilant would be my guess.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 09, 2014, 01:57:52 PM
Always vigilant would be my guess.
The key and electric bolt signify cyber forces in my guesstimate. The Sphinx seems rather Islamic. What it really means of course may be very different from how people interpret it.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on March 09, 2014, 01:11:49 PM
What does your avatar mean? What is the significance of the Sphinx?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Military_Intelligence
You guys were pretty close.
Ive rarely seen a squadron patch with a bolt that wasnt involved with electronic warfare.
So far no terrorist group has claimed any to responsibility to this accident which leads me to believe it was just that an accident.
I'm very interested in seeing what the Chinese and other countries make of this.
The whole stolen passport thing is probably part of the very common use of fake or stolen passports to get one's self into countries with better economic opportunities. It's supposed to be a virtual industry in SE Asia much like along the US/Mexican border
Quote from: Dolan50 on March 09, 2014, 03:53:13 PM
So far no terrorist group has claimed any to responsibility to this accident which leads me to believe it was just that an accident.
I'm very interested in seeing what the Chinese and other countries make of this.
Me too. I'd rather not see them trying to put legs on the rooster the same time as Russia is being a bitch.
Missing Malaysian jet may have disintegrated in mid-air: source
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/09/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140309 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/09/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140309)
Man, that would be a shitty way to go. Having your plane come apart at 35000 ft then falling ... too much time to reflect on your life, all the things you would not get to do, those left behind ...
Best wishes to all the families. RIP all those on board.
If it disintegrated in mid-air, wouldn't a large amount of debris still make it to the ground from 35k feet?
Quote from: Gusington on March 09, 2014, 07:50:08 PM
If it disintegrated in mid-air, wouldn't a large amount of debris still make it to the ground from 35k feet?
I would think so. A lot of Columbia made it to the ground. I don't recall at what elevation she broke up, tho.
Quote from: Gusington on March 09, 2014, 07:50:08 PM
If it disintegrated in mid-air, wouldn't a large amount of debris still make it to the ground from 35k feet?
Of course, it wont float in air. I guess they are saying the reason they do not find a big wreck together is it scatters further from higher up. Wind is stronger the higher up you go.
i once heard those black boxes activate a kind of pinger when underwater
when modern subs und fixed installed sensor lines in the ocean can locate a cruising Typhoon 'half an ocean' away they should be able to triangle the blackbox real fast ... and secretly channel the information to some SAR - vessels with less sensitive more civilan sensor equipment.... which 'by happenstance' looked in the right area when starting its search pattern of 100 000 square miles for the blackbox pingers ...?
Ok so have tbey found any pieces yet? Maybe it crash landed into the water whole somehow and sunk...
Quote from: MikeGER on March 10, 2014, 02:48:39 AM
i once heard those black boxes activate a kind of pinger when underwater
when modern subs und fixed installed sensor lines in the ocean can locate a cruising Typhoon 'half an ocean' away they should be able to triangle the blackbox real fast ... and secretly channel the information to some SAR - vessels with less sensitive more civilan sensor equipment.... which 'by happenstance' looked in the right area when starting its search pattern of 100 000 square miles for the blackbox pingers ...?
The Black box should survive, it would be designed to handle a collision. Along with no emergency call it makes me wonder if someone tested an EMP weapon.
I dont know the track of the flight but there are some pretty deep spots around those parts of the ocean.
Quote from: MikeGER on March 10, 2014, 02:48:39 AM
i once heard those black boxes activate a kind of pinger when underwater
when modern subs und fixed installed sensor lines in the ocean can locate a cruising Typhoon 'half an ocean' away they should be able to triangle the blackbox real fast ... and secretly channel the information to some SAR - vessels with less sensitive more civilan sensor equipment.... which 'by happenstance' looked in the right area when starting its search pattern of 100 000 square miles for the blackbox pingers ...?
Yes, I caught on the news this morning that it is an audible ping that runs for 30 days. Other soft news updates included a mention that the US presence now includes a frigate (2 helicopters, I assume an asw platform), a reconnaissance plane from Japan, and "soon" a submarine. I'm guessing our subs are pretty good at hearing audible pings, especially if it can between the bottom and a layer. I don't know how deep it is in the area, but I assume that's possible.
Also, neither of the spotted oil slicks are from the plane.
I think perhaps the most mind blowing bit about this to me is the whole ignored-Interpol-database-of-stolen-passports thing.
Quote from: Gusington on March 10, 2014, 08:03:19 AM
Ok so have tbey found any pieces yet? Maybe it crash landed into the water whole somehow and sunk...
No debris. A liferaft turned out to be a cable wheel. Two large oil slicks test negative (I'm guessing that just means it's not avgas). One flight spotted what looks like a door, but now it can't be found again. There are apparently 30 ships and some serious airpower working the area, so it's a bit of a mystery as to what happened. I guess in the lack of obvious debris or crash field, even a hijacking has not been completely ruled out, but if that's the case, it's got to be one of the worst hijackings ever.
Here's a question for you knowledgeable types: why don't the black boxes stream data live to a satellite, bounce to a ground server, and then saved. Clearly the technology exists -- how different can the data in black boxes be from the data streamed to fly a drone?
Quote from: skeptical.platypus on March 10, 2014, 11:09:35 AM
why don't the black boxes stream data live to a satellite, bounce to a ground server, and then saved. Clearly the technology exists -- how different can the data in black boxes be from the data streamed to fly a drone?
the answer is just money :'(
they will argue: its to seldom a plane get lost including the box, and the blackboxes survive an abuse like no other thing ...so with enuf time spend by the crash-analysis-specialists (years sometimes) all past incidents had been solved to a sufficient level in the past decade(s) ...so we don't want to spend a single cent more.
Also the plane at 30 000 feet is on a radar somehow all the time, those see in realtime if something strange happens. with a good military grade radar (recorded raw data) you should see the flight trajectory of larger debris-pieces or a debris cloud sinking in the atmosphere ... i guess there where just non active in the area at that time, or handshake between military intel and civilian agencies is not so good in those countries along the route (to much info is learned about the sensitivity of the radars in those places would be given away ...same why the pinger 'is not found'
immediately )
This is getting more and more strange with every passing hour with absolutely no trace of the plane...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F5d%2F90%2F15%2F5d9015f9fe28b90adc5ac30d9c13c24b.jpg&hash=f1f3738823c9bbf2101153bef7d3b0071068868a)
Just thinking of all those foam seat cushions that must float... where are they?
Yeah that's what I mean...not to mention the 1000s of cups and bottles and.other crap that would float.
bbc is looking at hijack but how do you disappear from radar - can you switch it off?
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 10, 2014, 01:56:04 PM
bbc is looking at hijack but how do you disappear from radar - can you switch it off?
They could switch off the transponder in the plane but the plane itself would still show up on radar. It would just be an unidentified icon.
thats what i thought - the transponder tells them youre flight 225 from Malaysia but youd still be on radar, my only other thought was theyd go below radar but theyd see you descending surely
it's still early to kinda speculate stuff. At this point you might as well think aliens (good one Star you beat me to it ;)
Remember Air France flight 447 in 2009? Took 2 years to find the black boxes (they do have 'pingers' though). Although they did manage to find debris within a short time. That is what is weird about this Malaysian flight.
I don't think EMP's would have been used - although it might make sense why no signal traffic came out. However, wouldn't that have affected other flights (surely there were others in that heavily congested area)? Also, it just sounds too crazy - why pick a flight from Malay when you can take out a bigger target?
An EMP disguised as a cell phone or console game might only put out a system-fry strength measured in hundreds of feet. That might be detected at a distance anyway, but I don't know what it would look like other than a lightning strike.
Isn't Malaysia mostly Muslim?
...i speculate:
a hijack that went wrong (to pull another 911 stunt on the way later) ... taken out the pilots (no coms), and hijacker did an emergency dive to sea level to get under the radar horizon (dont want interceptors to check on non-responsive plane on a not authorized route or altitude all to soon) and then makes a 90° turn of from the flight route .... after an unknown time has past then somewhere there happend something between a very rough ditch and a softer crash (accidental? on purpose? insufficient skill of the piloting terrorist? counterattack of some passengers?) and the plane doesn't disintegrated at all, and sunk to the ocean ground ...not much debris, and all search areas would be totally wrong chosen
interesting link: Blackbox deepwater retrieval scientific approach
http://www.hydro-international.com/issues/articles/id1130-Deepwater_Black_Box_Retrieval.html
^ Hadn't thought about a cell phone EMP possibility. Can't rule it out.
Predominately Muslim. The Bali attacks back in early 2000's were carried out by islamic terrorists IIRC.
The only thing about finding a debris field on the surface of the ocean is that you can't see the debris unless it is 1) big debris, or 2) you are close enough to see smaller debris. The shear size of the search area may simply mean that the kind of debris you would expect from an airliner auguring in at high speed would be small enough that searchers would need to be close enough to be able to see the floating bits with binos or the Mk 1 Eyeball.
Toonces, if you catch this post can you give us the Naval Aviator's view of how hard it would be to spot something the size of a floating seat cushion or suitcase from SAR altitude?
Also if terror bombing gone wrong, plane explodes at 30,000 ft., no radio, instant vanish off radar. Bits of plane falling from that height would be spread over an incredible huge area AND not be very large.
Winds would blow fuel way to almost complete dispersion.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F73483000%2Fgif%2F_73483790_china_malaysia_plane3_624.gif&hash=a041995cbd66fad51f2c003e80bd44faa9ab12d9)
It looks like a pretty big area to search. I'll ask one of the SAR guys at work what they think.
From the news reports, it sounds like there's a theory it might have disintegrated somehow at a very high altitude, making the debris very hard to detect after being scattered.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on March 09, 2014, 10:11:46 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 09, 2014, 07:50:08 PM
If it disintegrated in mid-air, wouldn't a large amount of debris still make it to the ground from 35k feet?
Of course, it wont float in air. I guess they are saying the reason they do not find a big wreck together is it scatters further from higher up. Wind is stronger the higher up you go.
You know what else doesn't float in air? Very small rocks. ;D
Quote from: MikeGER on March 10, 2014, 11:54:56 AM
Quote from: skeptical.platypus on March 10, 2014, 11:09:35 AM
why don't the black boxes stream data live to a satellite, bounce to a ground server, and then saved. Clearly the technology exists -- how different can the data in black boxes be from the data streamed to fly a drone?
the answer is just money :'(
they will argue: its to seldom a plane get lost including the box, and the blackboxes survive an abuse like no other thing ...so with enuf time spend by the crash-analysis-specialists (years sometimes) all past incidents had been solved to a sufficient level in the past decade(s) ...so we don't want to spend a single cent more.
Also the plane at 30 000 feet is on a radar somehow all the time, those see in realtime if something strange happens. with a good military grade radar (recorded raw data) you should see the flight trajectory of larger debris-pieces or a debris cloud sinking in the atmosphere ... i guess there where just non active in the area at that time, or handshake between military intel and civilian agencies is not so good in those countries along the route (to much info is learned about the sensitivity of the radars in those places would be given away ...same why the pinger 'is not found' immediately )
Thanks MikGer, I figured it was something along the lines of money. Good point about civilian & military = intelligence gathering opportunity. I imagine one of the ancillary benefits in participating in this kind of operation is for militaries to get some operational intelligence on at least methods if not capabilities of other participants.
Had a chat with a coworker who used to do SAR (search and rescue) with the RN. This is not an easy task. Imagine trying to find a dark basketball in the ocean. Add winds and current change effects to your search pattern plans. If the plane disintegrated at very high altitude, there might hardly been anything left intact when it hit ground or ocean, much less in obvious pieces. Even with surface radar.
I know the families are frustrated, throwing bottles and stuff, but I'm sure these search teams are giving their best.
Interpol said Tuesday that the two passengers who used stolen passports to board a Malaysia Airlines flight that disappeared early Saturday morning were Iranians seeking asylum in Europe.
Interpol secretary general Ronald K. Noble identified the men as Pouri Nourmohammadi, 19, and Delavar Seyedmohammaderza, 29. Noble said that the two men had traveled to Malaysia from Tehran using Iranian passports, but had secured stolen Italian and Austrian passports in Kuala Lumpur for their planned journey to Beijing and Amsterdam, for which both had tickets and planned to travel together.
Fox News - 2 minutes ago
Iranian Aboard Missing Jet 'Not Likely' a Terrorist: Official
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/iranian-aboard-missing-jet-not-likely-terrorist-official-n49591
"Investigators identified the passenger as Pouria Nour Mohammad Mehrdad, 19, and said they believed he was trying to reach to Germany to claim asylum. He was traveling on an Austrian passport.
Inspector General Khalid Abu Bakar of the Malaysian police told a news conference on Tuesday that after checking his background it appeared that Mehrdad "was not likely to be a member of any terrorist group."
He added: "We believe he was trying to migrate to Germany. We are in contact with his mother. His mother was expecting him to arrive in Frankfurt. When he doesn't arrive [the mother] contacted us here and that's why we knew he was the one traveling on the stolen passport."
Would the Iranians shoot down an airliner to keep someone from defecting? Did these individuals have something to do with their nuclear program maybe? Don't the Iranians still have some F-14s and Phoenix missiles (sorry Star)?
That sort of scenario seems pretty unlikely but Interpol is saying these guys don't seem like terrorists. I imagine a missile wouldn't show up on civilian radars designed to track airliners.
^^ There is literally no possible way Iranians could have shot down the plane: they don't have stealth submarine carriers large enough to transport and launch their crippled F-14s halfway around the world. ;)
SO FAR AS WE KNOW! ;D
But an agent could have blown up the plane at super-high altitudes to stop them I guess.
The truth will probably be something much less interesting, like years of substandard maintenance and repair resulting in a chain reaction catastrophic detonation. A terrorist attack would be more likely to leave larger pieces thrown around, unless they took over the plane and plunged it carefully into the sea. But then, why not take credit for it?
It's the lack of a black box signal that's so weird.
I imagine a fighter could Cary enough fuel in external tanks to men the trip. Does Iran have a midair refueling capability?
Of course your right, pretty wild speculation on my part. The thought just occurred to me when I heard about the Iranian passengers. I imagine an Iranian F14 is far morel likely to fall out of the sky itself than shoot anything down today :)
No the iranian f14s cant reach that far and no they dont have phoenix missiles.
http://www.businessinsider.com/malaysia-military-missing-plane-flew-350-miles-with-tracking-off-2014-3
This is interesting.
Looking around the internet to see what the conspiracy theorists think since everyone seems to be looking for boogeymen and found this.
Freescale Semiconductor Employees Behind Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane? One of Conspiracy Theories.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/555475-freescale-semiconductor-employees-behind-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-one-of-conspiracy-theories/
"One of the authors of the theory, elaborating in a post on popular conspiracy website Before It's News, alludes to a U.S. intelligence assessment on capabilities of Israel in regards to an attack on Iran. Any attack would include jamming the electric grid, Internet, and cell phone network, using devices such as one that mimics a maintenance cell phone signal that commands the cell network to "sleep."
The report also references a story from Fox News that explained that new stealth technology makes airplanes invisible to radar, and can also make them hard to spot with the naked eye.
"The general public ... might not hear about how far the U.S. has really come, because it is and should remain classified," firearms expert Chris Sajnog, a former Navy SEAL, said. "Other countries are still playing catch-up — but they're closing the gap."
The story includes references to Chinese media reports that detail making things disappear using types of invisibility cloaks. The missing flight was flying from Malaysia to China.
"It is conceivable that the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 plane is 'cloaked,' hiding with high-tech electronic warfare weaponry that exists and is used," a Before It's News story claims. "In fact, this type of technology is precisely the expertise of Freescale, that has 20 employees on board the missing flight."
Freescale's commercial products can meet the requirements of applications such as avionics, electronic warfare, and battlefield communications, according to the company's website"
Until the plane is found I'm still under the suspicion that it was nothing more than mechanical failure.
But,I do find it interesting what others think.
conspiracy conspiracy
...were there any forum admins on the plane then it where the spooky Groginati again ;)
:o My wife is going to freak out about the Freescale connection. She used to work for them.
Vaporization of a whole plane with no radiation bloom clearly points to an antimatter device. Or Cybermen. Delete! Delete! Delete!
Quote from: endfire79 on March 11, 2014, 05:49:14 AM
Imagine trying to find a dark basketball in the ocean.
theyre still looking for Wilson?
lost but found by Tom Hanks, and t'was a white volleyball IIRC
This is kind of cool and I hope it helps
QuoteA digital mapping company that allowed web surfers around the world to hunt the vast ocean waters for the vanished Malaysian jetliner crashed on Tuesday after an overwhelming response.
Colorado-based Digital Globe has trained its five satellites on the Gulf of Thailand region—the last known whereabouts of Malaysia Airlines flight 370. The orbital units transmit photos and data of the vast area which viewers can scan on a website called Tomnod-- Mongolian for "Big Eye." The hope is that millions of sets of eyes, with an assist from above, can help solve the mystery of what happened to the plane and the 239 people on board.
But a day after the initial images were posted online, the site required emergency maintenance to handle the large virtual search party.
"It's a good reason to have our site crash," a spokesperson for DigitalGlobe told FoxNews.com. "We did get an overwhelming amount of people responding. It has been going well. We are getting a lot of tags and will be uploading more images for people to search."
Once the site is back up, any computer user can log onto Tomnod and pore through thousands of high-definition images of a particular region and publicly "geotag" anything that raises suspicion. A computer algorithm is then used to determine whether certain areas are tagged more than others, and in-house experts follow any leads from the consensus tagging.
"Luckily, the imagery had been exhausted with searching before the site went down," Luke Barrington, senior manager of Geospatial Big Data for DigitalGlobe said to FoxNews.com. "We have had six million map views. Half-a-million people have signed up, it's a 100 times the response we've had before."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/11/malaysian-plane-virtual-search-party-too-much-for-website/
And here is the site you can go view the images at
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014
Just about an hour ago on NPR, there was a report that the Black Box had been turned off sometime before the plane disappeared. I think it was stated this occurred about one hour prior to disappearance from the radars.
Missed the very beginning of the report, so cannot say who made it. If this is true, then mechanical failure looks very unlikely.
The Black Box is designed to also give a response when a radar requests information, like IFF. Most likely this was noticed after they reviewed the tapes of the radar coverage. The response information would show up on the screen, indicating the boxes worked. After being turned off, the radar return would still be there, but the responses would not.
It is barely conceivable the Boxes failed, but this is very unlikely. That's why there are two, and each has a seperate battery tocover such an eventuality.
This leads to the suggestion that something happened within the cockpit. That is the only place the Black Boxes could be turned off and on.
Are you certain that the Black Boxes can be turned off? I was under the impression that only the voice recorder could be erased and that was after a normal landing. Also, I don't believe they are actually in the cockpit anymore.
I doubt they can be turned off. Every drunk pilot would know he could turn it off. F that.
I didn't think the black boxes could ever be turned off either...
black boxes are usually in the tail as thats the last part that hits and it more survivable.
I think it flew into Mirths love life.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 11, 2014, 09:36:21 PM
I think it flew into Mirths love life.
There could be some vintage TBM Avengers in there as well, along with a leaky old Martin Mariner...
My understanding was the same, that the Black Boxes could not be turned off. The interview and report on the radio made it sound like this was possible from within the cockpit. Perhaps this report was more speculative than I thought.
However, the person interviewed asserted that for an hour, the IFF type response of the plane was not working. There was only the radar return on the tapes.
Not knowing how the IFF is wired on civilian airliners, it used to be controlled from the cockpit (on/off function). The individual made it sound like the IFF response goes through the Black Box.
In the US traffic control system, the huge amount of air traffic might make the air traffic controllers miss the lack of IFF response for some time, but not likely for an hour. Once noticed, they would try to make contact with the plane and find out the problem. It will be interesting to see how closely the Malaysian/Vietnames/Chinese controllers monitored this. Not knowing the volume of traffice and how well manned the control system is, it would be of interest to see how it was monitored while in flight.
The 'squawk' codes can be changed in flight by the pilots, depending on their current flight status or instructions from ATF. I don't know if they could be turned off completely. some of these speculations might be better addressed by Toonces or Yskonyn (or any other professional pilots on these boards). They would be more familiar with the gritty details of what can and cannot be done.
If the transponder was turned off deliberately then the hijack scenario certainly stays in the top of the list of possibilities.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on March 11, 2014, 09:40:46 AM
I imagine a fighter could Cary enough fuel in external tanks to men the trip. Does Iran have a midair refueling capability?
Of course your right, pretty wild speculation on my part. The thought just occurred to me when I heard about the Iranian passengers. I imagine an Iranian F14 is far morel likely to fall out of the sky itself than shoot anything down today :)
They could try ramming. ;D
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on March 11, 2014, 05:49:45 PM
Vaporization of a whole plane with no radiation bloom clearly points to an antimatter device. Or Cybermen. Delete! Delete! Delete!
milLIONS of HU-mans die EVERY day and YOU do not care FOR THEM? (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi717.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww173%2Fprestonjjrtr%2FSmileys%2FDoctor%2520Who%2FCybermanDlt.gif&hash=9aeea6b2ecb10e42c6fb965ffe67e3be2a0fe703)
Great smiley find.
debris found??
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/12/chinese-government-website-says-it-has-images-suspected-plane-debris/
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html
An investigator from the NTSB said that the Black Boxes are not turned on while the plane is on the ground in an airport. This is to keep the amount of sqauwks from becoming overwhelming to the traffic controllers. They are supposed to be activated just prior to takeoff.
This apparently means the pilots can turn them on and off.
The 'squawks' are part of the IFF system inside the cockpit. The seperate Black Boxes may record the activities of the pilots in turning off the 'squawk box' but the BBs themselves, esp. the Flight Data Recorder, would likely be isolated from tampering during flight.
I hope it's debris (although in another way I hope it isn't and that the plane is somehow safe), but until they actually recover it, it's just a weird reflection from something in the water.
And I'm pretty sure the BBs are turned on and off by the maintenance crew, so as to keep the boxes from being tampered with in-flight. If the boxes weren't on at all, the crew is where I'd start looking fast.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on March 12, 2014, 12:13:18 PM
Great smiley find.
I AM YOUR SER
VANT! I AM YOUR SER
VANT!...
I AM YOUR SERRRR VANT!(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi717.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww173%2Fprestonjjrtr%2FSmileys%2FDoctor%2520Who%2Fthxcoojpz1hckzmqm62w1.gif&hash=59e717924b2ce07e8d907dea0798be650236237f)
(I'm running through the classic Whos right now; finished with the First last month, will start The Macro Terror next.)
Another interesting theory made by Chinese bloggers.
"In China, government officials sought to stanch speculation about terrorism as they expressed growing concern about Malaysia's handling of the investigation. The country's energetic bloggers were mostly restrained, but some theorized that the Malaysian military had mistakenly shot down the plane after it abruptly changed course, then covered up the action after realizing the mistake."
Theories Grow Without Facts on Lost Flight
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/13/world/asia/online-and-onscreen-disappeared-malaysian-flight-draws-intense-speculation.html?action=click&contentCollection=Asia%20Pacific®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article
^ they're likely used to conspiracy theories, due to their own governments amazing accountability in all their disasters in the last few years. I think they should check their own backyard before jumping to conclusions about other countries in the region.
Missing jet: Not a hijacking but 'deliberate' action, PM says
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/
"(CNN) -- The Malaysian Prime Minister stopped short of calling the disappearance of Flight 370 a hijacking, but he said Saturday that the jet veered off course, likely due to deliberate action taken by someone aboard.
With that revelation on Day 8, the search for the missing Malaysian Airlines plane refocused on the crew and passengers and widened to a larger swath of geography.
The passenger jetliner disappeared March 8, en route from the Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, China.
"Evidence is consistent with someone acting deliberately from inside the plane," Prime Minister Najib Razak said, officially confirming the plane's disappearance was not caused by an accident.
"Despite media reports that the plane was hijacked, we are investigating all major possibilities on what caused MH370 to deviate," he said.
Military radar showed the jetliner flew in a westerly direction back over the peninsula before turning northwest toward the Bay of Bengal or southwest into the Indian Ocean, Najib said.
"Up until the point at which it left military primary radar coverage, these movements are consistent with deliberate action by someone on the plane," he said.
Investigators, he said, have confirmed by looking at the raw satellite data that the plane in question was the Malaysia Airlines jet.
The same conclusion was reached by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, the British Air Accidents Investigation Branch and the Malaysian authorities, all of whom were working separately with the same data, he said."
Looks like they ruled out mechanical failure in favor of something even more sinister.
The plot thickens and why is this information just being released now!
Court told of plot by Malaysians to hijack plane
http://www.thesundaily.my/news/987389
Posted on 16 March 2014 - 09:47pm
"PETALING JAYA: A British newspaper published a report today that evidence of a plot by Malaysian religious extremists to hijack a passenger jet in a 9/11-style attack is being investigated in connection with the disappearance of MH370.
The Telegraph quoted a convicted al-Qaeda member as telling a court in London last week that four to five Malaysian men had been planning to take control of a plane, using a bomb hidden in a shoe to blow open the cockpit door.
It said security experts had said the evidence from Saajid Badat, a British-born Muslim from Gloucester, was
"credible".
The Telegraph quoted him as saying that he had met the Malaysian jihadists – one of whom was a pilot – in Afghanistan and given them a shoe bomb to use to take control of an aircraft.
In evidence in a court case last Tuesday, Saajid was quoted as saying that he had been instructed at a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan to give a shoe bomb to the Malaysians.
Giving evidence at the trial in New York of Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, Osama bin Laden's son-in-law, Saajid said: "I gave one of my shoes to the Malaysians. I think it was to access the cockpit."
The newspaper, which said that Saajid, who spoke via video link and is in hiding in the UK, had told the court that the Malaysian plot was being masterminded by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the principal architect of 9/11.
"According to Saajid, Khalid kept a list of the world's tallest buildings and crossed out New York's Twin Towers (of the World Trade Centre) after the Sept 11, 2001 attacks with hijacked airliners as 'a joke to make us laugh'," it said.
According to the newspaper, Saajid told the court that he had asked some of those behind the alleged plot if he could give them "one of my bombs to open a cockpit door?".
It said Saajid, who was jailed for 13 years in 2005 for his part in a conspiracy with the "shoe bomber" Richard Reid to blow up a transatlantic jet, had given similar evidence in 2012.
The Telegraph said that in other words, Saajid's claims were first made long before the disappearance of Flight MH370."
How is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed able to mastermind this plot?
He has been in US custody for over a decade and has been in Guantanamo since 2006.
they all shoed have known (baddly hidden pun)
Put a sock in it, this is no time for jokes. :-X
I tend to think satellites would have found the crash. That is one hell of a truck bomb if they still have control.
All right, here's a crazy idea: hijackers took the plane and landed it somewhere in order to use it again later. Passengers are offloaded and then later shot (or whatever) once they're somewhere easy to kill.
Still doesn't explain the black box(es) exactly, which had to be turned off at some point in the air.
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 17, 2014, 08:11:32 AM
All right, here's a crazy idea: hijackers took the plane and landed it somewhere in order to use it again later. Passengers are offloaded and then later shot (or whatever) once they're somewhere easy to kill.
Still doesn't explain the black box(es) exactly, which had to be turned off at some point in the air.
"The Wall Street Journal has released a report saying "some senior U.S. officials believe that the plane may have been taken as part of a 'dry run' for a future terrorist attack, testing the ability to take a plane and hide it from radar and satellites."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-former-deputy-cia-director-mike-morell-says-plane-likely-flew-south/
"Though Morell said it's a possibility, he said it's unlikely someone would do something of this magnitude as a test.
"If you were able to get control of an aircraft, you would use it immediately," Morell said."
Mike Morell is a former Deputy Director of the CIA .
Save it for later...that is crazytalk. So crazy that it may just be viable.
If they pack an entire hold, plus 200lbs on every seat with high explosive, it would be like a tactical nuke.
I guess everyone will start putting strong hidden GPS transmitters into their fleets.
I just realized Mr. B called it once post before I did; sorry. :)
It wouldn't even need to be high explosives. As a kinetic weapon + jet fuel it would be devastating in the right circumstances (e.g. 9/11, Clancy's Debt of Honor). Though sure, HE would help. On most radars it would show up as an IFF squawk.
IT COULD BE FLYING OVER MY HEAD RIGH-- -------
If you always plan for the worst, you usually get a pleasant surprise.
"Whoever did this must have had lots of aircraft knowledge, would have deliberately planned this, had nerves of steel to be confident enough to get through primary radar without being detected and been confident enough to control an aircraft full of people," a veteran airline captain told Reuters.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/17/us-malaysia-airlines-disappearance-insig-idUSBREA2G14020140317 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/17/us-malaysia-airlines-disappearance-insig-idUSBREA2G14020140317)
It collided with the SHIELD flying carrier in a cloud bank. the real problem is that carrier was tracking Godzilla.
Best explanation I've heard yet, from another pilot
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/
QuoteA Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet
There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; it's almost disturbing. I tend to look for a simpler explanation, and I find it with the 13,000-foot runway at Pulau Langkawi.
We know the story of MH370: A loaded Boeing 777 departs at midnight from Kuala Lampur, headed to Beijing. A hot night. A heavy aircraft. About an hour out, across the gulf toward Vietnam, the plane goes dark, meaning the transponder and secondary radar tracking go off. Two days later we hear reports that Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar, meaning the plane is tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca.
When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and searched for airports in proximity to the track toward the southwest.
The left turn is the key here. Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. They're always in our head. Always. If something happens, you don't want to be thinking about what are you going to do–you already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
There are two types of fires. An electrical fire might not be as fast and furious, and there may or may not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility, given the timeline, that there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires, it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes, this happens with underinflated tires. Remember: Heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long-run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)
What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that route–looking elsewhere is pointless.
more at the link, but you get the gist of it
makes perfect sense ...and need no spooky stuff at all :)
Where's the wreckage then? The path described above must have been flown over and sailed by 1000 times by now.
...for conspiracy lovers, two new facts surfaced:
- inhibitants on a Maledivan island will have seen a very low flying airliner short after their local sunrise on 3/8
- rumors of several tons of gold on the plane :D
and saw a new conspiracy theory about an attack on DiegoGarcia, which was cold-stopped - and of course not communicated to the public
Yes, no crash visible, no landing where people are all calling on their cell phones.
Quote from: MikeGER on March 18, 2014, 01:17:48 PM
and saw a new conspiracy theory about an attack on DiegoGarcia, which was cold-stopped - and of course not communicated to the public
Oooo, that's a good one!
Diego Garcia? Soomeone get Smuck on the horn...
I don't want Smuck on my horn.
Get Kate Upton my horn, maybe we can talk.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-g9-OOZd8ZmI/UymscDTRzhI/AAAAAAAABDw/kcQJIaHAvlw/s800/Gilligan.jpg)
That's probably pretty close to the truth.
Why is there no debris, assuming the incapacitating fire?
Because aircraft like this are designed (for safety's sake) 'to fly': they aren't like electric jets which will tumble around once power is lost, they're like gliders. As long as they have sufficient forward thrust they'll just keep going forward until they hit severe weather problems or a mountain or run out of gas. Even at low altitude (which the plane would have been at if it missed setting up an approach).
Moreover, if it finally runs out of gas having dropped down low to set up a failed approach (accidentally also below most radar coverage at any distance), it won't have time to build up a 'scatter speed' by falling before it hits the water. It should simply belly in, more or less in one piece. It floats for a while with its dead passengers (killed from smoke) and then sinks. The end. :(
What an electrical fire doesn't explain to me is the lack of black box signal activity, which I would think should have started upon loss of electrical support. ???
Looks like more sat photos pointing to the southern Indian Ocean. Currents probably flushed everything all over the place.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-satellite-images-focus-search-on-southern-indian-ocean-20140320-355yo.html (http://www.smh.com.au/national/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-satellite-images-focus-search-on-southern-indian-ocean-20140320-355yo.html)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.smh.com.au%2F2014%2F03%2F20%2F5279918%2Faf-sat-20140320200924446973-620x349.jpg&hash=1668327f8dcc654473709f2a9572854a52f537da)
FedEx flight 705 back from '94. A pilot at work was talking about this after seeing this on a Mayday episode.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705)
On April 7, 1994, Federal Express Flight 705, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30 cargo jet carrying electronics across the United States from Memphis, Tennessee to San Jose, California, experienced an attempted hijacking for the purpose of a suicide attack.
Auburn Calloway, a Federal Express employee facing possible dismissal for lying about his previous flying experience, boarded the scheduled flight as a deadheading passenger with a guitar case carrying several hammers and a speargun. He intended to disable the aircraft's cockpit voice recorder before take-off and, once airborne, kill the crew using the blunt force of the hammers so their injuries would appear consistent with an accident rather than a hijacking. The speargun would be a last resort. He would then crash the aircraft while just appearing to be an employee killed in an accident. This would make his family eligible for a $2.5 million life insurance policy paid by Federal Express.[1]
Calloway's plan was unsuccessful. Despite severe injuries, the crew was able to fight back, subdue Calloway and land the aircraft safely. An attempt at a mental health defense was unsuccessful and Calloway was subsequently convicted of multiple charges including attempted murder, attempted air piracy and interference with flight crew operations. He received two consecutive life sentences. Calloway's appeal was successful in having his conviction for interference ruled as a lesser included offense of attempted air piracy.[2] The crew members were left with permanent, disabling injuries and have not flown professionally since.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
they've confirmed debris in the Indian Ocean is from the plane
Quote from: bayonetbrant on March 24, 2014, 09:29:27 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
they've confirmed debris in the Indian Ocean is from the plane
Thanks for the update, chief. At least we know their fate. I now wonder if we'll be able to determine how & why.
By "confirm" they really mean "taking an official position from a guess based on spotty information". No debris from an airliner has actually been recovered, and no one knows for sure what the satellite is seeing. (Some generic debris that might have been from an airliner cargo or from any other naval cargo has been found.)
The news, per se, is that Malaysia has taken an official position now: flight lost all hands aboard over the Indian Ocean.
The Doppler effect was used to determine the supposed final area of flight MH 370...interesting...
Quote
The latest calculations were based on a new analysis of the satellite-operator's original data, relying on minute changes in the frequency of the electronic "pings"—or attempts to link up with satellites—received from the plane during its more than six-hour flight after dropping off radar, according to Tim Farrar, a satellite industry consultant.
Inmarsat was able to correlate two streams of data to form a more precise picture of where the Boeing 777 may have ended up, Mr. Farrar said. The initial data stream focused on the timing of the "pings" from the plane, he said, revealing distance from the satellite. The later stream focused on frequency changes involving the "Doppler effect," he said, revealing the plane's speed.
The Doppler effect has to do with changes in the frequency of a moving source of waves relative to an observer.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304179704579459161537152946?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304179704579459161537152946.html%3Fmod%3DWSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories
It is interesting they announced it before recovering anything....unfortunately they are probably right, but not sure why not wait until some hardcore proof first, especially since every other lead has not turned out.
The pressure on Malaysia, esp. from China, to be more forthcoming and timely with any info probably had a lot to do with that. The Chinese are reputed to be furious with the way Malaysia has until now handled the PR/info-sharing side of things
???
(https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1924616_10152362967601757_235093116_n.jpg)
^^ No problem, he runs the Island now. ;D
(While his minion is off guarding the all-seeing super-computer with Secret Agent Combat Christ. ...how is it I am not watching that show yet??!)
Holy crap
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/the-depth-of-the-problem/931/
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 14, 2014, 08:44:32 AM
Holy crap
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/the-depth-of-the-problem/931/
Wow that really puts it in perspective.
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 19, 2014, 11:00:10 AM
Why is there no debris, assuming the incapacitating fire?
Because aircraft like this are designed (for safety's sake) 'to fly': they aren't like electric jets which will tumble around once power is lost, they're like gliders. As long as they have sufficient forward thrust they'll just keep going forward until they hit severe weather problems or a mountain or run out of gas. Even at low altitude (which the plane would have been at if it missed setting up an approach).
They will not *just* keep going forward. As long as the autopilot works and is set to follow its routing, then yes, in theory it is able to just follow the lateral routing until it encounters the things you mention.
Once gas is spent, speed will drop, the nose will try to pitch up to keep lift, autopilot will disconnect and the plane will stall, pitch downwards again to pick up speed because it has a self-correcting aerodymic design, and undulates while loosing altitude in the process until it hits the sea.
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 19, 2014, 11:00:10 AM
Moreover, if it finally runs out of gas having dropped down low to set up a failed approach (accidentally also below most radar coverage at any distance), it won't have time to build up a 'scatter speed' by falling before it hits the water. It should simply belly in, more or less in one piece. It floats for a while with its dead passengers (killed from smoke) and then sinks. The end. :(
I am not sure what you mean by a failed approach? Assuming the crew did not interact with the aircraft anymore due to a fire or a depressurization, the aircraft will not follow a vertical path unless the pilots have already dialed in a minimum altitude.
It will only follow its lateral path if the pilots were incapacitated early on.
As for it scattering upon contact with the sea; we get taught that even if we execute a fully controlled ditching by the book, chances are quite high that the aircraft will break or get severely damaged.
So if this airplane went belly under in an uncontrolled state either by autopilot commands (which i highly doubt), by stalling or by a shallow dive because of empty tanks, chances are pretty high the aircraft would break into several pieces.
A controlled ditching speed would be somewhere around 100 knots, so anything uncontrolled may be much higher.
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 19, 2014, 11:00:10 AM
What an electrical fire doesn't explain to me is the lack of black box signal activity, which I would think should have started upon loss of electrical support. ???
As far as I remember the activation is governed either by impact or water contact. Not loss of electrical power.
Quote from: TheCommandTent on April 14, 2014, 10:40:57 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 14, 2014, 08:44:32 AM
Holy crap
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/the-depth-of-the-problem/931/
Wow that really puts it in perspective.
Yeah, talk about looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack. Even if they know roughly where to look, it could still be months (if not years) before they can actually find and retrieve it.
Ysk,
By "failed approach" I was referring to the theory of a professional pilot from several weeks ago (mentioned by Brant upthread (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9503.msg243953#msg243953), and which I was commenting on) that after a severe electrical problem the pilot turned around and took a heading (maybe by a reasonable guess) to an airstrip capable of handling such a large jet; but then on approach something went further wrong and the pilots were permanently incapacitated after pulling up to level flight for another turnaround, or had gotten (more-or-less) in line but were incapacitated before starting the descent procedures, leading to an overshoot perhaps off-beam significantly from the runway and so never getting near the strip to begin with. (The theorist was talking about smoke from an electrical fire leading to the final incapacitation of the pilots.)
Either way on this theory the aircraft would be flying level out to sea again after crossing the island on mostly full tanks; and even if autopilot happened to be off local atmospherics might be stable enough to keep the plane flying relatively level for a long way.
I have no idea how the recent black box business fits into that theory. But it seemed plausible to me to explain the aircraft's behavior until it was lost and how it could have gotten so far afterward.
The pilot wasn't theorizing on the relative lack of breakup after a crash subsequent to such behavior, that was just me. :) If you say that a relatively low and slow jumbo aircraft might significantly tear apart anyway even on an ideal ocean ditch (which this admittedly wouldn't have been), I certainly defer to the professional training! I think what you said didn't affect the other pilot's glidepath theory, though: I gathered he was setting up a situation where the plane would be flying steadily without further guidance for a long time until the fuel ran out, at a low altitude beneath most radar coverage.
So now CNN is reporting that the 'pings' picked up 7.5 weeks ago are NOT from Flight MH370...they are possibly from the Malaysian search ship itself.
Are you $%^#ing kidding me?
Good gravy. If it weren't for the tragedy inherent to the situation, I'd expect the Yakety Sax music to start playing any minute now...
Quote from: Martok on May 29, 2014, 04:16:24 AM
Good gravy. If it weren't for the tragedy inherent to the situation, I'd expect the Yakety Sax music to start playing any minute now...
Shortly before that airliner, now stuffed with C4, rams into the Capitol building or something like that. :buck2:
Quote from: Gusington on May 28, 2014, 06:08:28 PM
So now CNN is reporting that the 'pings' picked up 7.5 weeks ago are NOT from Flight MH370...they are possibly from the Malaysian search ship itself.
Are you $%^#ing kidding me?
Tell me this isn't a government operation...
Which government?
Does it matter?
For me here in 'Murica...yep
Who knows who is coordinating everything...or if there even IS coordination. Considering it took a concentrated effort and two years of searching to find that Air France box in the middle of the Atlantic between Africa and South America, considering how much real estate they have to cover over in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, no telling how many years they'll spend looking and chasing signals from their own boats.
I agree with you. The whole 'listening to their own ship's ping' took me a-back, though.
The debris which washed up on Reunion Island have been confirmed to be from Malaysian flight 370.
First time we've found *anything* on this flight.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/08/05/plane-debris-belongs-to-mh370-malaysian-pm-says/
Graphic showing how the debris may have drifted to Reunion
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/03/17/world/asia/search-for-flight-370.html
Quote from: mirth on August 05, 2015, 01:52:56 PM
Graphic showing how the debris may have drifted to Reunion
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/03/17/world/asia/search-for-flight-370.html
By eyeballing all those maps it looks like the search area was really close to where we think the debris originated, but a miss as as good as a mile :(
Maybe now we'll be able to recover more.