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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: airboy on April 03, 2014, 12:03:09 PM

Title: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: airboy on April 03, 2014, 12:03:09 PM
Jagged Alliance Flashback is attempting to relaunch the Jagged Alliance franchise with a game set in the late 1980s before the end of the Cold War.

It is a kickstarter development project - so no telling if this will actually become a playable game.

Information can be found at:
http://www.jaggedallianceflashback.com/home

They are planning to make it turn based, which is the way to go with this game.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 03, 2014, 12:30:12 PM
Apparently there is an alpha build for supporters. Anybody?
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Slick Wilhelm on April 03, 2014, 12:40:17 PM
Awesome! Finally getting back to the Jagged Alliance roots.

That new, real-time Jagged Alliance:Back in Action just didn't trip my trigger.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Slick Wilhelm on April 03, 2014, 12:52:35 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 03, 2014, 12:30:12 PM
Apparently there is an alpha build for supporters. Anybody?

http://www.jaggedallianceflashback.com/url/shop

Yep, there sure is. It's actually releasing today for backers. I haven't become a backer yet, but I probably will once it goes beta.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: SgtRock on April 03, 2014, 02:32:20 PM
Warning !!! - Malwarebytes flags the web site (http://www.jaggedallianceflashback.com/home) as Malicious!!!!

Did they get hacked or something?
Title: .
Post by: eyebiter on April 03, 2014, 03:23:16 PM
.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on April 03, 2014, 07:38:05 PM
I'm a beta backer - we should get Early Access by the end of May, according to what Full Control has been stating.

I think they'll get the game play absolutely right, as they did with Space Hulk(*), not so sure about the atmosphere. This latter bit was a huge part of the JA2 experience, and the lack of such atmosphere, explains quite well why those Russian-made reboots, as full with game-breaking bugs as the original JA2 was, like Hired Guns, Brigade E5, 7.62mm (which got back a bit of that with R@S' Black Sun Mod, yet that mod goes a bit too far) or the distinctly cold and soulless Back in Action, never did really take off.

But they are also probably going to release a smaller game than the original JA2. Which I think it should be fine, as long as they stick to the promise they're making of opening pretty much everything to anyone capable of handling Unity. One could expect a fan-made remake of the original JA2 "campaign", possibly led by the Bear Pit fellas. Back in Action further failed when they force modders to jump through hoops in order to mod the game (which seems to me to be almost mandatory for this kind of tactical strategy game, where "gun pr0n" is rampant).

(*): And that's the irony of Space Hulk, they make a 100% faithful port of Space Hulk and people just went medieval on their assholes because of the game not being up to "expectations". The irony bit is that I have always thought that Space Hulk was a pretty average game (and a rip off of Colonial Marines), and that Full Control shot themselves in the foot by tying themselves to a clearly overrated game (when compared to what one can do with turn-based strategy on a PC or a tablet). It's likely that a similar reaction will ensue with this JA reboot when the JA2-hardcore mechanics get exposed to the "unwashed" masses.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Steelgrave on April 03, 2014, 07:57:13 PM
They can take the X-Com model and I'm all in. Other than that, I'm going to have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: TacticalWargames on April 04, 2014, 10:34:23 AM
Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on May 06, 2014, 07:00:20 PM
This is definitely shaping up to be a proper remake, as we can see on this Alpha Playthrough posted on the JA Flashback backer forums

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT3L482uVcU

the video looks very choppy, and the guy recording the session isn't really doing a great job with the video or the game - in my opinion - but we can see that Full Control is definitely steering the game into the "right & proper" direction. It's interesting to see how XCom: Enemy Unknown is influencing tactical strategy games - see the Don't Starve guys strategy game - in the user interface department (the cover GUI, movement allowance display, etc.): those were good ideas to be kept, I think. It's also good to see how the 'look & feel' (the music, the mercs voices, their faces) of the original JA2 is being preserved, without tossing into the scrapheap the possibilities of technology available in the 2010's.

In the latest backer update Full Control announced that they will be shipping the editor with the Early Access/Beta and they're looking forward to full Steam Workshop integration. The editor is basically Unity, with some plugins automating some tasks I guess, and it looks like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_v1j7B1IVU&feature=youtu.be

The devs estimate the Beta will be available at some point during the next three weeks.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: SgtRock on May 06, 2014, 11:34:22 PM
JA2 still works so why do we need another remake?

I'd like to see a WWII squad level game at this scale, something like 82nd Airborne/Computer Ambush meets JA.

Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on May 07, 2014, 04:20:12 AM
Quote from: SgtRock on May 06, 2014, 11:34:22 PM
JA2 still works so why do we need another remake?

One remake that is faithful to the original and upgraded so to exploit present day PC capabilities was something me, and a few thousand other backers, found worthy of being crowdfunded. I have played and owned Brigade E7, Hired Guns, 7.62, JA Back in Action, and all of them have failed (to a different degree) to capture the "soul" of JA2.

Quote from: SgtRock
I'd like to see a WWII squad level game at this scale, something like 82nd Airborne/Computer Ambush meets JA.

Wasn't that supposed to be Team Assault? Didn't pan out too well that one.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: skeptical.platypus on May 07, 2014, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: SgtRock on May 06, 2014, 11:34:22 PM
JA2 still works so why do we need another remake?

I'd like to see a WWII squad level game at this scale, something like 82nd Airborne/Computer Ambush meets JA.

Sgt Rock, if you didn't bitch about how games don't meet your expectations, would you have anything to say, ever?
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Nefaro on May 07, 2014, 07:14:43 PM
JA: Back In Action is a good game.  It's just that the pausable real-time mechanics weren't as fun as the original Turn/AP-based one and felt like a real chore at times.  You just end up having to constantly jockey the pause toggle which is, in essence, playing a more annoying version of a turn-based game.

Real-time had been highly overrated for many years.  Luckily not quite so much these days since we're seeing more turn-based stuff show up again.  Thankfully.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: SgtRock on May 08, 2014, 10:11:03 AM
 
QuoteI have played and owned Brigade E7, Hired Guns, 7.62, JA Back in Action, and all of them have failed (to a different degree) to capture the "soul" of JA2.

I too played most of them, Brigade E7 & 7.62 started out Ok but, in all of the later mission you were always outnumbered 20:1, even 30:1, the battles just got crazy and no longer fun. Hired Guns could have been a contender if had more support from the developers but, just like E7 & 7.62 Russian developers don't seem to support their projects after release.

QuoteWasn't that supposed to be Team Assault? Didn't pan out too well that one.

I have no idea what Team Assault was trying to do but, it was nothing like JA or 82nd Airborne.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: TacticalWargames on May 08, 2014, 03:23:42 PM
The Silent Storm engine was superb. A shame no one could pick it up and do something with it.

I too would love to see an indepth WW2 game similar to JA2, maybe set in Stalingrad with all that street fighting. Would prefer WEGO than turn based though.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: SgtRock on May 09, 2014, 01:10:31 PM
Quote from: skeptical.platypus on May 07, 2014, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: SgtRock on May 06, 2014, 11:34:22 PM
JA2 still works so why do we need another remake?

I'd like to see a WWII squad level game at this scale, something like 82nd Airborne/Computer Ambush meets JA.

Sgt Rock, if you didn't bitch about how games don't meet your expectations, would you have anything to say, ever?

Sound like your the one Bitching!

I just said what I would like, how is that Bitching?

Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Boggit on May 11, 2014, 05:24:51 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on May 07, 2014, 07:14:43 PM
JA: Back In Action is a good game.  It's just that the pausable real-time mechanics weren't as fun as the original Turn/AP-based one and felt like a real chore at times.  You just end up having to constantly jockey the pause toggle which is, in essence, playing a more annoying version of a turn-based game.

Real-time had been highly overrated for many years.  Luckily not quite so much these days since we're seeing more turn-based stuff show up again.  Thankfully.
I've got JA-BIA, and agree it's a good game with a few - not really gamebreaking - flaws. I'd agree with Nefaro, it would have benefited at least from an option to play turn based.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on May 12, 2014, 12:05:06 AM
I really liked the tactical combat engine in 7.62mm - High Calibre.  If they could add the same quality writing, voice acting, characters, and story found in the original JA games to this engine, we'd have a winner. 
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Philippe on May 12, 2014, 06:24:33 AM
I played a little bit of this game a while back and was really impressed with the tactical engine.  It wasn't lacking in all the other supporting areas, but it didn't quite go far enough.  But I agree that if many of those areas were polished up, and not polished up all that much, it would be a winner.

I just started playing the BIA (the JA 2 remake) for the first time and JA 2.  Like all Kalypso games BIA is great to look at (except the character portraits which are better in the original), but the map seems smaller, it feels odd to assault Drassen airport (successfully) with only three mercs, and my sense is that the AI (on max difficulty) in JA 2 puts up a much tougher fight than BIA.

I don't dislike BIA, but when you play the two games simultaneously what you come away with is that JA 2 has so much style it's hard to justify giving some of that up for better graphics.  The mercs in BIA feel like echoes of the mercs in JA 2, and I suspect that JA 2 is a much longer game. (True confessions:  I've never actually finished JA 2, in spite of having played JA 1 through to conclusion many times -- I usually get sidetracked playing what amounts to a logistics game, stockpiling ammo and spare parts at various depots scattered across the map and spending most of my time ferrying supplies to my forward supply dump).  The only thing that bothers me about JA 2 is that the screen resolution is a bit lower than I would like, and the lighting in most of the screens seems too dark -- the colors should be more saturated, even in the desert. 
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Tpek on May 16, 2014, 01:04:00 AM
So Jagged Alliance Flashback is out on Steam since yesterday.
Anyone tried it so far?
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 16, 2014, 03:12:22 AM
$45 is a little steep for me to jump in on it right now....likely a game I will wait for until a decent sale especially since still in first access stage.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 16, 2014, 07:51:39 AM
The tactical combat portion of the game shows a lot of promise. However, it is in a very early state and has a long way to go.  Most features remain to be fully implemented.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: airboy on May 16, 2014, 08:27:41 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 16, 2014, 03:12:22 AM
$45 is a little steep for me to jump in on it right now....likely a game I will wait for until a decent sale especially since still in first access stage.

I don't buy unfinished games.  Same philosophy with Xenonauts which I'm also looking forward to.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: SgtRock on May 17, 2014, 09:56:52 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 16, 2014, 07:51:39 AM
The tactical combat portion of the game shows a lot of promise. However, it is in a very early state and has a long way to go.  Most features remain to be fully implemented.



From the Steam forums, it sounds like an Alpha release:
QuoteAs of v0.2:
The game at the moment doesn't really have too much going for it - only pretty basic mechanics like shooting, walking and talking are available.

Steam says The game is due for full release later this year???
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on May 22, 2014, 07:35:20 PM
@Nefaro, @Sgt_Rock, et al. You're right, the Back in Action gameplay was probably the best tactical 3D hi-jinks since Shadow Company (a game which didn't quite deserve all the attention it deserved, I think). The Plan & Go thing worked very well, regardless of the endless drivel and abuse some "JA2 Talebans" posted on the devs forumses (things got very ugly there, and I could see that the devs started acting in a "f*ck you too" manner).

Hired Guns gameplay was quite good as well, but the engine was too unstable (and unsupported).

The Silent Storm reference is worth commenting on:  in my opinion, the Commandos formula didn't mix too well with that of JA. And the Panzerkleins were totally over the top. Yet I quite liked the art style and the game play was very good (the destructible environments were particularly well-done for the time).

My major problem with Back in Action was basically that they totally killed the setting: story wise and in the art direction department. They wanted to give us a more "realistic" deal in the wrong quarter, killing some of the charm and tongue-in-cheekness of the original. And then we got 3D merc portraits that all shared a most weird resemblance, as one would expect from villagers in a isolated village in the Appalachians featured in a Lovecraftian short story. It also featured a sense of humour that seemed to borrow a page from JA-JA2 antics, but left me sometimes wondering "what the hell? was that meant to be funny?". 

Or also the way they approached the problem of scaling up difficulty: Deirdranna's army at the start is reminiscent of the kind of mob-like militias one sees in the news in places like the Central African Republic. I mean, confronting mobs armed with machetes might be realistic, though it's not the most interesting of all possible match-ups with trained men equipped with automatic rifles. I'd rather preferred that the initial opposition was equipped with vintage weaponry posing a nightmarish logistic problem when you're basically equipping yourself with what you can scavenge (that's a feature I quite like from JA 2 1.13, you get very colorful outfits).

The writing at times was uninspiring and reminded me of what you can find on those German car & police TV thrillers (what's its name? Cobra Something?). There were other questionable decisions - like leaving out the IMP player-generated character, the campaign where one felt very cozy too soon, foregoing funny stuff from the original like the Mel Gibson lookalike bromance with the not-too-disguised Ed Gein lookalike probably because BitComposer writers and devs didn't appreciate the joke - which didn't help much to enhance my connection with the game.

Regarding Flashback. It's a "backer" price - that is, in line with the Kickstarter pledges for the beta, which wasn't cheap - and what we got is a rough and ready prototype of the tactical combat engine. Which I'm liking quite enough (streamlining what needs to be streamlined, but keeping the gorey details under the hood). We also got the modding tools, which I'm seeing some people already taking to places (remaking sectors from the original JA2, for instance).

So if you want an actual game, rather than just support and encourage Full Control, just sit out the Early Access.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on May 22, 2014, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: SgtRock on May 17, 2014, 09:56:52 AM
From the Steam forums, it sounds like an Alpha release:
QuoteAs of v0.2:
The game at the moment doesn't really have too much going for it - only pretty basic mechanics like shooting, walking and talking are available.

Steam says The game is due for full release later this year???

If we take "alpha" to mean "tech demo" and "beta" to mean "polishing & bug-fixing", indeed, this one is still more on the "alpha" side than the "beta" one. Regarding the release time, I do think they'll deliver it in time - they work hard and fast (back in Christmas we just got to see some screenshots). They also have integrated in the current build a feedback system so one can make comments and point out to bugs. Whether this is just a mock-up to make people feel better, I can't say. But what I can say is that they do indeed come forward quite candidly, something I appreciate.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: KyzBP on October 21, 2014, 02:26:54 PM
So I just fired this up.  My initial impression is pretty good.  It feels a lot like the new X-Com, which isn't a bad thing.  The previous editions of this game had tremendous voice acting sadly this one falls kind of flat so far.  It feels like it has a lot of potential so I'll continue exploring and report back.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: JasonPratt on October 22, 2014, 06:35:42 PM
Man, the Steam reviews are brutal. Some of that could easily be JA2 fanbois -- which is understandable, why not just update JA2 please after what feels like 20 years  :tickedoff: -- but some of the complaints seem objective (design and graphic problems).
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: KyzBP on October 22, 2014, 07:09:53 PM
Unfortunately I haven't been very impressed.  It's not terrible but it's just not immersive in the way JA2 was.  As far as I can tell you can't loot buildings and such.  All you get is whatever drops from a fallen enemy.  The trees and buildings obscure your view at times which gets kind of annoying.  There's kind of a see thru thing going on but I'm not sure I like it.  Also, no laptop or an equivalent to contact the outside world.  If you want another Merc you just hit the Hire Merc button, select a Merc and, voila, he's standing at your side.  I liked JA2's method better.

In the game I'm playing now, my main character just got killed but the game continues.  I'm now controlling 2 Mercs and a farmer's daughter. 

Again, it's not bad, just not what I was hoping for.  I too was really hoping for more of just a graphics enhancement and a change in location but most everything else to stay the same.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on October 22, 2014, 08:00:03 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 22, 2014, 06:35:42 PM
Man, the Steam reviews are brutal. Some of that could easily be JA2 fanbois -- which is understandable, why not just update JA2 please after what feels like 20 years  :tickedoff: -- but some of the complaints seem objective (design and graphic problems).

Jason, disregard any review with less than 4 hours of playtime. Some of the stuff people is writing is wildly inaccurate :)

As Kyz, I am not impressed and I kind of have mixed feelings about the whole thing. Let me share some thoughts below (by the way, I was a KS backer):

The Good


The Meh


The Bad


I haven't seen much of the AI, but they're not bloody idiots. If you hole up in a house, they'll be reluctant to come into the house forming a neat queue at the door as in JA2. Seems that the initial sectors are meant to be sort of a "safe haven" providing some minimum income, and not too challenging. Some the twitch.tv streams by Shanga from the Bear Pit show that the AI can put up a more than decent challenge (flanking, taking advantage of the range of their weapons, etc.).

So mixed feelings, really. I'll wait until they release the modding tools and that free DLC before writing my Steam review. And I would advise people to buy in only if they're suckers for turn-based tactical strategy games.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on October 23, 2014, 05:04:15 AM
Damn this weird browser on my phone!
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: KyzBP on October 23, 2014, 05:07:39 AM
BG broke it down much better than I did.  Right now the game just doesn't feel like it has any personality, which was something JA2 gave you almost instantly.  It certainly has the potential to get better though.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: BanzaiCat on October 23, 2014, 06:35:09 AM
Reminds me of Brigade E5: New Jagged Union. I was supposed to review that for WG back in the day and within minutes of meeting a character named "Mayonnaise," I was done with it.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on October 23, 2014, 07:48:47 AM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on October 23, 2014, 06:35:09 AM
Reminds me of Brigade E5: New Jagged Union. I was supposed to review that for WG back in the day and within minutes of meeting a character named "Mayonnaise," I was done with it.

Yeah, there's a bit of misunderstood absurdist humour, which is the hardest thing to translate. In E5 it seems to me that somebody translated literally something that was genuinely funny in Russian. Back in Action was a German production - the closest to funny I ever got there was an NPC line similar to "You girlie mann, DIE! ". And with this one I don't know, looks to me like the result of a night hanging out with mates, eating too much pizza, too much beer and watching twice or three times those hilariously bad movies with Franco Nero playing the white ninja.
Title: Re: Jagged Alliance Remake
Post by: BanzaiCat on October 23, 2014, 07:52:11 AM
^ Ha! Though I quite enjoyed Sho Kosugi myself. Michael Dudikoff was good for a laugh or two also in his terrible American Ninja movies.