PASS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=112_jXTQ_8k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=112_jXTQ_8k)
I get it. The reviewer doesn't like using a controller. However, if you don't mind using a controller and want a rewarding experience, this is a good series to play. It isn't for everybody though. I enjoyed the hell out of the original Dark Souls and this one is more of the same.
Trey
The whole combat system of DS revolves around tightness and making your controller an extension of your hands.
It has been like this from Demon Souls.
Playing these games with anything other than a controller would be masochistic.
I realize that not every port from console to pc and vice versa work. Control is usually the major issue not graphics etc. What this guy says is valid if you're a casual gamer who is not well versed in gaming. But the whole point of dark souls is locking onto your target and fighting him. YOU DON"T NEED A CONSOLE CONTROLLER TO PLAY the game on the fraking pc.
Anyway I'm not going into detail because it's not worth it. Either you like the game or not but the bottom line is that this game is not flawed. It's the gimps that play it and then trash it because they are too stupid to play a video game that requires a bit of tactical thinking.
And this scot and his comments on giving the money to some hobo can go take his opinion and blow it out his......
The game's hard.
I died a dozen times before I managed to slay the first (well second actually) boss of the game,
The young maid with the Spoon of Death (it's the young woman in the hut you get into right at the beginning).
She was very tough and left me no room for maneuvering but eventually I was able to slay her and claim her 4-6 Human Effigies.
And then butcher the rest of the old ladies that just sat around without even fighting back (they were much easier, despite wrecking my weapons), giving me even more Effigies! Huzzah! :P
You slayed them in that hut? I didn't even know that was possible.
I hit the woman in the hut for laughs and then I ended up running in terror as she started kicking my ass!
Trey
Nerd3 is an avid gamer and plays many different kinds of games. Although he hasn't played the PC version of Dark Souls 2 yet here's his playthrough on Dark Souls 1. He states that this is not a genre he's interested in but his playthrough demonstrates much better what to expect from a pc version of the Dark Souls series.
Now here is a playthrough video from Kinetic. He's also a professional gamer and is equally quick to crticize as much as he is to praise a game. I value his opinion greatly and his style of play is both cautious, logical, and entertaining. Judge Dark Souls 2 for yourself after watching his video. Granted he's playing on a PS3 but you get the idea of how the mechanics work in this game. Then decide if you think it will work on a pc. I've already made my decision.
Quote from: W8taminute on April 27, 2014, 12:36:59 PM
I realize that not every port from console to pc and vice versa work. Control is usually the major issue not graphics etc. What this guy says is valid if you're a casual gamer who is not well versed in gaming. But the whole point of dark souls is locking onto your target and fighting him. YOU DON"T NEED A CONSOLE CONTROLLER TO PLAY the game on the fraking pc.
Anyway I'm not going into detail because it's not worth it. Either you like the game or not but the bottom line is that this game is not flawed. It's the gimps that play it and then trash it because they are too stupid to play a video game that requires a bit of tactical thinking.
And this scot and his comments on giving the money to some hobo can go take his opinion and blow it out his......
He's a geordie
Quote from: W8taminute on April 27, 2014, 12:36:59 PM
I realize that not every port from console to pc and vice versa work. Control is usually the major issue not graphics etc. What this guy says is valid if you're a casual gamer who is not well versed in gaming. But the whole point of dark souls is locking onto your target and fighting him. YOU DON"T NEED A CONSOLE CONTROLLER TO PLAY the game on the fraking pc.
Anyway I'm not going into detail because it's not worth it. Either you like the game or not but the bottom line is that this game is not flawed. It's the gimps that play it and then trash it because they are too stupid to play a video game that requires a bit of tactical thinking.
And this scot and his comments on giving the money to some hobo can go take his opinion and blow it out his......
:o
No Geordie-speakers left on the north side of the Tweed?
Geordies are strictly contained ;D
Oh I'm glad he's a person from the Tyne area and not a Scot. I actually like the Scots. A guy I used to work with is Scottish who's been living in this country now for 5 or 6 years now. He's a great guy.
Anyway, what do I know, I'm just a stupid american. 8)
Quote from: Yskonyn on April 27, 2014, 12:15:00 PM
The whole combat system of DS revolves around tightness and making your controller an extension of your hands.
It has been like this from Demon Souls.
Playing these games with anything other than a controller would be masochistic.
I tried the original Dark Souls with an Xbox controller. Wasn't impressed at all. I thought, "why would I bother playing this over something like Skyrim?". The controls felt touchy and imprecise to me. The graphics looked bad and the FOV screwy. Even on an LED 1080p TV from a distance. After playing through the intro part, I couldn't bring myself to continue. Too many console-ish negatives for my taste. :-\
Great article about the appeal of Dark Souls.
kotaku.com/5874599/what-dark-souls-is-really-all-about/1476048242
Trey
Quote from: Nefaro on April 27, 2014, 07:53:38 PM
Quote from: Yskonyn on April 27, 2014, 12:15:00 PM
The whole combat system of DS revolves around tightness and making your controller an extension of your hands.
It has been like this from Demon Souls.
Playing these games with anything other than a controller would be masochistic.
I tried the original Dark Souls with an Xbox controller. Wasn't impressed at all. I thought, "why would I bother playing this over something like Skyrim?". The controls felt touchy and imprecise to me. The graphics looked bad and the FOV screwy. Even on an LED 1080p TV from a distance. After playing through the intro part, I couldn't bring myself to continue. Too many console-ish negatives for my taste. :-\
I never played it on Pc, but I have read that it suffered from issues that the console version did not have. DS2's port is much better according to various articles.
But aside from the possible sluggishness of the original port the reason why your Controls might have felt imprecise might be because you were playing a tanky character or using a weapon he could
Not wield properly.
Combat is stamina based in these games and if it felt sluggish then either the game itself ran crap or your character wasn't decked out properly.
One thing that the series is famous for is its super tight and fair (but hard) combat system.
Is it just me, or does it look terrible? It's no Skyrim, that's for sure.
I'm not talking about the first video either - I'm going on the second one posted by W8aminute - the Norwegian ;)
Quote from: Great Ajax on April 27, 2014, 09:32:21 PM
Great article about the appeal of Dark Souls.
kotaku.com/5874599/what-dark-souls-is-really-all-about/1476048242
Trey
I can't agree with difficulty for difficulty's sake, and it's resultant replaying of the exact same situation over & over. Along with the "feel like a feral cat" similes. The description of what the author calls a "semi-open world", by describing the two ways you can travel in the beginning, is just making excuses for a
branching campaign.
Perhaps I expected Dark Souls to be more than what it was but I still don't think it's near as good as the hype I had heard about it. The thing turned me off very quickly.. before I even hit difficult encounters that I would have had to repeat over & over. There are plenty difficult games out there to be had.
I just couldn't get beyond the first couple of hours of the original Dark Souls on pc...I can only handle having my arse handed to me so many times and still trying to have fun.
Quote from: Gusington on April 28, 2014, 08:58:14 AM
I just couldn't get beyond the first couple of hours of the original Dark Souls on pc...I can only handle having my arse handed to me so many times and still trying to have fun.
Not only that, but in DSII, every time you die, your health gets lower. I don't see the value in punishing the player like that.
^Sounds very unfun. I too shall pass. Learned my lesson the first time and the lowered health is not going to change things.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 28, 2014, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gusington on April 28, 2014, 08:58:14 AM
I just couldn't get beyond the first couple of hours of the original Dark Souls on pc...I can only handle having my arse handed to me so many times and still trying to have fun.
Not only that, but in DSII, every time you die, your health gets lower. I don't see the value in punishing the player like that.
As long as you remain undead, yes. That's what Human Effigies are for; return your humanity and your health.
The game has many intricacies like that, but does keep you in the dark about most things.
I like this kind of exploration, but I understand it is certainly not for everyone.
Is there a manual that comes with the game? Mechanics like that shouldn't remain a hidden secret!
Very interesting discussion so far. I totally understand your points about why this game is not really appealing to a lot of people. The reason I understand is that I feel the same way as you do about FPS games. I suck royally at them and although I've now figured out how to handle myself in combat somewhat I'm still a loser when it comes to playing shooters. Yet I enjoy them non the less.
When it comes to Dark Souls we westerners must unlearn what we've learned about RPGs. If you know a little bit about Japanese culture you'll understand why Dark Souls is made the way it is. Dark Souls, while not a traditional JRPG, is geared more towards its Japanese audience than it is towards westerners. Once you get the cultural preferences down you can decide if you're willing to modify your thinking or not with the game.
Another point about the Dark Souls games which I'm attracted to is its brutal treatment of the player. Yes in DS2 you lose some of your health each time you die up to a limit of 50% of your total HP. The game is designed to punish you for acting brash or impatient. Unlearn what you have learned young padawan. You will have to repeat certain areas over and over again until you succeed but when you do succeed the feeling of gratification you get is unmatched. IOW think of Dark Souls as a boot camp drill sergeant and you the player are the new recruit. You are nothing and you are worthless and Dark Souls is going to totally dismantle your pride and hubris. You will either be reduced to a sniveling idiot crying home for mama or the experience will forge a hardened killing machine out of you if you're man enough. Just like boot camp does or at least is meant to do.
Yes DS2 is not as visually stunning as Skyrim is. The game is meant for a console after all but it is fun provided that it is your cup of tea. I think it's interesting hearing the opinions from both sides of the fence and I respect both of those sides. ;)
Not really, but thats intentional. (To Gus)
The game tells you these things in various ways. In DS2 more clearly than in DS1, where you would need to take note of item descriptions most of the time. In DS2 however, the various NPC's you meet tell you all kinds of tips. Do make sure you keep talking to them until they keep repeating the same stuff.
This is a game where stuff doesn't get handed to you on a silver platter. You need to think, practise, explore and pay attention.
And all this is intentional. And therefore not for everyone.
Quote from: Yskonyn on April 28, 2014, 10:33:51 AM
This is a game where stuff doesn't get handed to you on a silver platter. You need to think, practise, explore and pay attention.
And all this is intentional. And therefore not for everyone.
Yes yes this! Don't play the game if you want everything served to you with step by step instructions. This is probably one of the major reasons why the game does not appeal to a lot of people and that's ok.
I don't need everything served on a silver platter. Platinum will suffice.
I wanted to like the first Dark Souls port to pc...got it thinking "OK time for my punishment, I've been naughty." Even got a controller to go along with it as that was recommended at the time. Proceeded to get the crap kicked out of me over the course of several hours. Didn't go back.
I get why people like it because I don't like hand holding in games either, but Dark Souls takes it to the other end of the spectrum...ass kicking and then a lack of any guidance at all. There is a nice in-between...like Skyrim.
When I play DS, I get frustrated like anyone else with the numerous deaths. When you finally figure it out and beat t. Boss, you feel on top of the world. After awhile, I started getting better at timing and I could execute backstabs and parries and rolls and things got easier but never easy.
In my current game in DS2, I am at the beginning and stuck as usual and I notice curious things that I crave answers for. For example, there is this old broken down tower that has several zombie guards on the ground and an archer sniper on the upper level. I take all of these down but then there is this white knight sitting with his back to a tree with arrows sticking out of his helmet and chest. I have all of these questions. Why is he sitting there? Why don't the zombies attack him? Why doesnt he just attack me? Why wont he speak? So I end up attacking him and I get close on several occasions of taking him down. Now my weapons have started to break and I am down to a mace as one of my last weapons. What happens when that one breaks? Where is the stupid blacksmith's key so I can get him working on repairs?
Trey
nm
I am pretty sure he wasn't asking for answers, just indicating that these curious things are part of what makes the game so interesting.
Please be careful about posting spoilers. The key to the blacksmith being one of those things. :)
Oh and Gus, I do believe that DS1's port to PC got some criticism for it having pretty bad performance even on high end machines. There have been some mods or workarounds posted that I've seen claiming to alleviate the problem.
Bottomline is that a game like DS really suffer if the game isn't run at good performance. The combat system relies on fluidity and timing.
The DS2 post is touted to be much better. And its the better game to start with in any case if you're new to the series I find.
Don't get me wrong, I regularly enjoy difficult games and especially ones involving unknown effects you must discover.
The key word there being "enjoy".
If I want a fun exploration RPG that is difficult, I'll go play roguelikes.
QuoteThere is a nice in-between...like Skyrim.
I love Skyrim...it's a great movie...you can and want to watch it over and over again...it's just great and awesome. DS 1+2 (and I suppose Demon Souls which I never played) is not like watching a great movie...it's you being the actor in your movie...if you act good, you get a good movie, if you act great, you get a great movie...if you suck...you blame the game...you can not compare a Souls game with Skyrim...or any other RPG out there...unless you never played it or...the game was more than you could handle...these games are in NO WAY difficult or sadistic or whatever you might call it...it's just a game experience from another time...the games we know today turned us all into video game pussies...that's all. Enjoy that state or...GROW UP and beat the game :)
^I'm probably older than you are. So don't make me take you over my knee and give you a spanking.
QuoteI'm probably older than you are
Are you sure...? ;)
No. But if you want to get masochistically tortured by a game, that's your business. Some people are into that as proven by this thread. Some are not. But game pussification is another realm. Not liking Dark Souls is not pussification.
Quote from: Gusington on April 28, 2014, 04:35:08 PM
^I'm probably older than you are. So don't make me take you over my knee and give you a spanking.
He's a kinky one, that Gus.
Quoteif you want to get masochistically tortured by a game, that's your business.
I don't want that and DS2 is not torturing me...I'm enjoying it quite a lot and also think DS2 is much easier than DS1...which I'm also enjoying greatly.
QuoteNot liking Dark Souls is not pussification.
It is, because the Souls games are not what the opinion of those who consider them too hard make of them 'da hardest game in da world'...they are probably the most easiest games out there if you define easy as fair...if you can master the controls, if you can master your character...you can easily master the game.
I guess it all boils down to how much an individual is willing to invest in a game. By invest I mean time and effort not money. We each have our preferences and that's what makes us all interesting. Keep in mind though that games like DS do appeal to some and it is extremely rewarding for those who take a deep breath, take their time, and invest their time.
Here's another example I'd like to share. When Civ III first came out I bought the collector's edition in the tin metal box on day one. I put more time into that game in my personal gaming history then all the other games I've ever played combined. And for the first 5 years I sucked ass so badly I'd frequently rage quit and threaten to give up video games for good. I just couldn't figure out how to beat the game on the harder difficulties and it tasked me. It really tasked me. I had to beat this game and I was obsessed. To this day I can count on 3 fingers how many times I've beaten the game on King level. I felt like such a whimp compared to the Civ gods that constantly boasted how easy the game was on the forums over at Civfanatics. When Civ IV and V came out those games were so much more easier for me for some reason. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have to really want to play a game and be willing to go through the pain. Something about Civ III hooked me in and I couldn't stop playing the game I loved to hate. It was like a crazy girlfriend or something. Dark Souls is like that for me only I'm much better at Dark Souls than I ever was at Civ.
Keep calm and grog on boys... ;D
What I found is that Dark Souls is a neat game for what it is. By that, I mean comparing it to something like Skyrim misses the whole point. DS stands on its own as a game.
I really like the idea of Dark Souls. Where it fails, for me, is the "expect to die over and over" part. Again, I understand that this is an intentional design issue, and if figuring out the pattern and then beating it is your thing then I totally see how this can be enjoyable.
For me, though, I just couldn't find the fun in Dark Souls. And that's very frustrating because I know it's an excellent game. I simply cannot find it fun.
I also understand that dying all the time is intentional. I just don't like it either.
Yeah you nailed it Toonces. Dying over and over again until you finally succeed is indeed frustrating. I admit that. To ask someone to like a game where dying is going to be a frequent occurrence is asking a lot.
There are some levels in the game where I walk around killing everything in sight without breaking a sweat and there are other areas where I've died so many times I scream in rage at the tv only to dive back in again. It's kind of calming in a strange way though.
Dying over and over again at the hands of some camping sniper though is something that is totally very unfun for me. I ask myself why I continue to play shooters then and the only answer I can come up with is it's fun to sneak around on the battlefield looking for kills.
Quote from: W8taminute on April 28, 2014, 11:17:10 PM
Yeah you nailed it Toonces. Dying over and over again until you finally succeed is indeed frustrating. I admit that. To ask someone to like a game where dying is going to be a frequent occurrence is asking a lot.
I actually enjoy numerous games where you're expected to die at some point without making it to the end. Roguelikes are a fine example. The WOFF campaigns are also like that. But each time you die, you start off again in a new form, with different capabilities or strengths, and the next journey is dynamic and unpredictable every time.
Having to repeatedly restart in the same situation is more like
Groundhog Day torture. It also smells of puzzle solving. I don't mind guaranteed death and failure.. if the next try is different every time.
That is a good point too and better explained than I did above.
Especially in DS2 which as I said is easier than DS1 I rarely die because I have tons of healing items and spells. You are not expected to die here or there because the designer thought that a funny point for you to die or numerous times, dying is not the real intention of this game. If I die, I do because I lost concentration, sucked with the controls, rushed in an unknown area etc.. If you play this game like you actually are your character i.e. cautiously, then there is no need to die constantly. The intention of the game is to punish you for a sloppy play style and biting off more than you can chew and it rewards you for a game session where you actually think about your situation and care about your characters life. And exactly this makes it a rare game among all the others out there...
I don't have this hobby to get punished.
It all comes down to preference.
I like the challege the DS games give me, but as I have said before; I can perfectly understand why others do not.
I happen to like Peanut Butter too.
I love peanut butter. Chunky.
QuoteI don't have this hobby to get punished.
This attitude is the reason why EA and the other publishers force the studios to deliver easy games that give you an achievement for pressing the start button...
Quote from: Yskonyn on April 29, 2014, 01:41:33 PM
It all comes down to preference.
Indeed.
The first one sounded like it could be something I'd enjoy. But I was quickly disappointed, even before reaching any difficult points to retry. It's just not my thing.
I can see how some could enjoy it, but I felt it was way too Console-ish for my preferences.
QuoteI felt it was way too Console-ish
aaahh...a true voice of the PC master race!
Quote from: Grimnirsson on April 29, 2014, 04:15:54 PM
QuoteI felt it was way too Console-ish
aaahh...a true voice of the PC master race!
Bow to your Overlords pitiable Console Man!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Di%26amp%3Bsource%3Dimages%26amp%3Bcd%3D%26amp%3Bdocid%3DH7S1yoYxL9cCmM%26amp%3Btbnid%3DqwwCEwMUwsxpxM%3A%26amp%3Bved%3D0CAUQjBw%26amp%3Burl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.avsforum.com%252Fimage%252Fid%252F1619125%26amp%3Bei%3DJhlgU-KeAZWtyASI7YKQCQ%26amp%3Bpsig%3DAFQjCNFTBSvu0K2mudDv1qObyDv8f0BUSA%26amp%3Bust%3D1398893222114457&hash=a0fc16cdc2decc91ae77af5b9cd2817da8762a00)
No need for that...I rather go and play, enjoy and beat a Souls game ;)
Quote from: Gusington on April 29, 2014, 02:01:34 PM
I love peanut butter. Chunky.
Now there's a man after my own heart. I even put my chunky peanut butter on my cold cereal in the morning. Preferably either Frosted Flakes or Rice Chex. :)
If you like to be punished Grim be my guest. But my "attitude" has not led to rewards for pressing the start button. I also don't frequent dominatrices, stick my testicles in vices or crash my car on purpose just so I can deal with he insurance company. Now pass the chunky peanut butter and get off my back.
are you getting agitated, Gus, because you know he does have a point about EA and that attitude.. *grin
Perhaps you are telling us more about yourself than you want now! *ducks
DS games are the true status symbol for the master gamer race with the hardcore mentality. Others are pussies and are those for why Farmville got developed! Ha!
...
Quote from: Grimnirsson on April 29, 2014, 04:03:06 PM
QuoteI don't have this hobby to get punished.
This attitude is the reason why EA and the other publishers force the studios to deliver easy games that give you an achievement for pressing the start button...
There is a huge range of difficulty levels existing between punishing and pressing the start button. It shouldn't come down to a choice between these two extremes. There are many games in this genre that fall somewhere in between. And the really good ones give you the option to play them as punishing, easy or various levels between the two. Skyrim does just that and I suspect it has a lot to do with its success.
If a game gives you the option to be punishing or easy it has nothing to do with the idea of the Souls games...it only punishes sloppy gameplay, I don't consider DS 1 or 2 as punishing, but as rewarding if you accept the world you are in is dangerous and so you must act/play accordingly...
DS reminded me a lot of the days of Ghouls n' Ghosts (which was a truly punishing game) : fun in short spurts, and then it was time for something else. I have the patience to sit down and strategize in a game, or put together a winning baseball organization over years of play. I don't have the patience to sit down for any lengthy period of time with an action game and learn patterns, master button combos, etc. That's just how I'm wired.
Any attempt to take someone's personal preferences and use that to claim that "Clearly you just want easy games." or "It's obviously broken." or whatever else is just needlessly simplistic nonsense.