A Pair of GW Questions

Cyrano · November 23, 2014, 11:23:27 AM

Given that Armageddon is set to disappoint, I thought to look on the bright side and ask:

1: Anyone into Mordheim yet? The video demo almost got me to pull the trigger, but I wondered if anyone here's got it?

2: Why haven't we created a Grogheads Blood Bowl league using the Focus/Cryptic engine? Surely it will be available for a song during the holiday sale at some point -- I've had it for a while -- and it's a good adaptation of the system...

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

JasonPratt · November 24, 2014, 09:45:46 AM

The Focus/Cryptic engine for BB is great -- but it tends to suffer from multiplayer desynch. Some people don't have trouble with it, though.

We did try to create a VASSAL engine for Blood Bowling; not sure how that's going, I know some people were playing games on it. (I couldn't for time constraint purposes; also because I'm horribly lazy and don't want to bother looking up and applying all the rules.

)

I picked up Mordheim's early access last week -- first impressions from the basic tutorial (plus some screenies) can be found here on the forum, downthread, or starting here at this comment specifically.

I was sick with a headcold all weekend, so I didn't get to play much of anything aside from advancing my Shadow of Mordor campaign. I definitely want to get back into what's available for Mordheim.

I don't personally agree the upcoming 40K game is set to disappoint, but the Ultimate Apocalypse mod for Dawn of War: Soulstorm is entering its final release testing and it's pretty dang great. Not turn-based, though, so it can get a bit hectic for us oldsters. ;)

Nefaro · November 24, 2014, 11:51:44 AM

Quote from: JasonPratt on November 24, 2014, 09:45:46 AM
The Focus/Cryptic engine for BB is great -- but it tends to suffer from multiplayer desynch. Some people don't have trouble with it, though.

I think the desync happens due to high ping rates between the two players. BB must have a ridiculously low tolerance for high latency, which is rather odd since it's a damn turn-based game.

Nevertheless, my worst desync issues were when playing someone from across the pond. Which is often where my opponents were from when the matchmaker squared us off. Dunno what it is about Blood Bowl but there have always been tons of Frogs playing it. Those Frenchies love 'em some Blood Bowl. :) Otherwise, I've had the odd Brit, Spaniard, or American/Canadian. Only the matches against the North American opponents were pretty trouble free in this regard, and perhaps some of the Brits.

JasonPratt · November 24, 2014, 12:08:06 PM

Nef,

That would explain why some of the tournament games I've watched seemed to have no synch problems: the players were a group of North American internet game reviewers.

Cyrano · November 24, 2014, 06:24:04 PM

The DoW I and II iterations are examples of doing the franchise right, even though short of the full-on tabletop iteration GW has feared all these years.

I can imagine de-sync would be maddening...

Will definitely check out Mordheim remarks. Thanks for pointing that out.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

JasonPratt · November 24, 2014, 07:56:30 PM

Incidentally, I think I can explain the weird sensitivity to high ping latency: the timing clocks for moves or strategy choices naturally need to stay in synch.

GJK · November 25, 2014, 07:11:58 AM

As an FYI, the VASSAL Blood Bowl League (VABBL) is in full swing on its inaugural season. We are in the third round and everything has been flowing quite smoothly. Being a Pbem league, play is very leisurely, and at a very manageable rate even for the busiest of schedules as a turn takes literally 5-10 minutes to complete. Also what is interesting is that we are using Dropbox to upload the log files from the matches so everybody has the ability to spectate the other matches at any time. This is great for getting a scouting report on other teams or just to see how the other coaches are doing.

We had 6 coaches for this season, 5 of which actually are active. Jason - we'd love to have you and others from Grogheads join us in our next season which may not be too terribly far away!

See my sig line for a link to our league website (VABBL.org)

Nefaro · November 25, 2014, 12:16:02 PM

Quote from: JasonPratt on November 24, 2014, 07:56:30 PM
Incidentally, I think I can explain the weird sensitivity to high ping latency: the timing clocks for moves or strategy choices naturally need to stay in synch.

Yeah, I forgot about that.

That still doesn't excuse the issue with it. Much like the single-player AI that many people have been requesting since the original version was released, the developers have mostly ignored fixing it. It would probably take more time than they want to spend on it, despite having re-released the thing twice. :-[

I've begun new mult-player teams a few times in the past. I usually end up getting connected with latency issues and getting out of sync, then the match terminating early because it can't get back to normal. After a couple of these, I end up rage quitting multi-player again. It's unfortunate.

JasonPratt · November 25, 2014, 08:46:56 PM

Hm.

Incidentally, I don't understand the complaints about the AI. I've played a fair number of games against it and have found it highly capable if unimaginative.

I think it acts weird because it plays the odds so precisely that it ends up doing things like lurking in its backfield under protection hoping it can create an exploit in your own backfield despite the turn clock winding down. A human would realize he's going to lose if he doesn't do something risky and try to make a miracle happen; the AI is safely trying to make a miracle happen by contrast.

Nefaro · November 25, 2014, 09:29:14 PM

Quote from: JasonPratt on November 25, 2014, 08:46:56 PM
Hm.

Incidentally, I don't understand the complaints about the AI. I've played a fair number of games against it and have found it highly capable if unimaginative.

I think it acts weird because it plays the odds so precisely that it ends up doing things like lurking in its backfield under protection hoping it can create an exploit in your own backfield despite the turn clock winding down. A human would realize he's going to lose if he doesn't do something risky and try to make a miracle happen; the AI is safely trying to make a miracle happen by contrast.

It just attempts to turtle up and run it down the field. Doesn't matter which race.. it uses the same cage tactic. I rarely see it throwing on the highest difficulty setting and it's just a very short toss when it does.

It's easy to regularly beat when doing so and just crumbles when using squishy teams that are no good at such a tactic.

Instead of improving the situation, the developers gave the AI teams starting XP bonus in the latest version's single-player campaigns. So they start off notably more skilled-up than the player. I suppose that's better than nothing, but still less than half-assed. :-\

Edit:

I sound frustrated because they've re-released Blood Bowl twice. That's three full-priced version of the same game! Yet they never fixed two of the biggest complaints through the whole process: the AI and the Multi-player desync problems. Love the game but I Am Disappoint with the developers repeatedly skirting the work it needed through all those re-releases.

GJK · November 25, 2014, 10:32:10 PM

Nothing beats a human opponent! Seriously, you guys need to try it out via VASSAL some time. It's simple to do, free (!) and really, the rules aren't difficult at all. You just have to keep in mind the individual skills but that shows in the VASSAL module when you mouse over a piece (their skills and stats show in a pop up window).