Commander: The Great War releases on iPad and Steam

[Philippe]

I have both Matrix's Commander and Battlefront's Strategic Command Great War/Breakthrough.

Both are excellent.  What Commander does it does very well, but the Strategic Command games give a better feel for the situation, partially because of the scale and partially because of the chrome built into the game.

Once you get beyond the nitty-gritty of the naval war (which only seems to have been portrayed well in NWS' Steam and Iron),  a more abstracted representation is probably less annoying, so Commander will have certain advantages there.  The Great War/Breakthrough games do however give a pretty good sense of the strategic issues in the naval warfare, even though the naval mechanics are a bit too rooted in the games combat mechanics.  The same charge could probably be leveled at Commander, but it's a little easier to overlook because you loose so much more detail in Commander than in Great War/Breakthrough because of the scale.

I've had a lot of fun with the naval war in Great War/Breakthrough, even though my sentient mind knows that the mechanics are wrong.  Oddly enough the strategic implications of what you are doing come out about right, and once you start thinking about the implications of what you're doing you end up becoming very cautious about risking ships in combat because they're so god awfully expensive to replace. So it all comes out in the wash, even though I'm not thrilled about how it gets there.

On reflection, the problem with both these games is that the naval war needs a radically different type of combat and movement mechanics from the land part of the game, essentially a different and parallel game engine.  I remember seeing something like this in an S&T boardgame  back in the seventies and, even after I wrapped my head around how the rules worked, still found myself wondering what all this business about keeping ships on station was supposed to represent.  In hindsight it makes lots of sense in a strategic game, and it's something you never see.  And I doubt that we'll ever see any strategic games with three different game engines (one for land, one for air, and one for naval).

The things I don't like about Commander are  ahistorical and over-powered air units (air units are a crowd-pleaser, so who cares if an eindekker couldn't do squat against ground troops) and the distortions of scale on the situation on western front and movement in general.  Great War/Breakthrough also overpowers its airwar, though not as badly as Commander, and its larger scale (even larger still in the detailed scenarios) gives a pretty good sense of what was going on at the western front and the many other ones as well.

I haven't mentioned the two Ageod games, To End All Wars and WW 1 Centennial Edition with the Randomizer naval mod.  I own them but I haven't had a chance to getting around to learning them well enough (too busy making flag mods for Strategic Command Great War/Breakthrough).  Ageod games tend to use a different mechanic for the land and naval portions, but I don't know the games well enough to know that the work.  Random (who made the naval mods) is involved with Steam and Iron, so the resulting OOB's are probably the most accurate out there.  Ageod's original WW I Gold suffered from mechanical issues, most of which were fixed by a small company in Canada which thought it had purchased the rights to the game.  Unfortunately WW I CE (which works better than WW I Gold ever did) is tied up in lawsuits by an un-named party (probably Matrix) so it's not always easy to get a hold of (I think Gamersgate still sells it).

Of all the WW I games that I have mentioned, Strategic Command Great War/ Breakthrough is the most mature (the use of squares as opposed to hexes is unfortunate but you get used to it and it is handled well in the rules).  Matrix's Commander is well-made but still has a few rough edges and is slightly more appropriate for hand-held devices (because of the level of scale and abstraction).

[Nefaro]

How would you guys rate naval combat in this game?  I've been eying it awhile.

Typical of most hex & counter wargames focused on land warfare.  As basic as it gets. 

[Cyrano]

Like much else in the game, it's a game rather than a simulation.

It posits a world in which neither side wants to be caught out and lose its naval forces so the real way to win is not to play, as it were.  I've crushed more than a few PBEM opponents who thought they were looking for Jutland and were painfully disappointed.  Worse, losing a capital ship is a huge hit to national morale.  Don't even get me started on how things get for the British if the sub threat evolves without anything to counter it.  And it's all done in a satisfyingly simple manner...

It's a great game, well worth the cost of entry, but a simulation of WWI naval battles or the strategy behind them it ain't.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[JasonPratt]

WW1G (and its prior and subsequent iterations) is based on a monster board game, so its naval game is pretty detailed, kind of based on its land-battle game but with many key differences.

14. Naval Warfare

The naval aspect of World War One: La Grande Guerre 14–18, while
unlikely to be decisive in most scenarios, is nevertheless an important part
of any overall strategic planning.

As a rule, the naval war in this game simulates the huge naval battle (rare),
the raids upon the enemy coasts, naval transport and amphibious landings,
overseas commerce raiders and even mines or submarine warfare.

14.1 Definitions
Naval warfare is handled essentially via the assignment of missions to
naval units. Each Major Power has ship squadrons, which are stacked
together as warfleets. Each ship squadron usually represents several ships
(1 to 5 each). The seas and oceans are divided into large sea regions and
coastal regions (usually with the flag of the "owner").

14.1.1 Sea Control
A sea is either "controlled" by one side or "contested" (nobody controls it).
Controlling a sea provides some advantages:
● free movement
● free reinforcement by sea
● sea supply
● sea surprise bonus
Not controlling a sea voids all of these advantages.

By default the control of the seas is listed below.
● Central Powers: Baltic Sea
● Contested Seas: North Sea, Adriatic Sea*, Black Sea**
● Entente: All other seas (English Channel, North Atlantic, Eastern***
and Western Mediterranean, and all overseas and oceans).

Notes:
* The Adriatic is controlled by the Central Powers if Great Britain is at
peace, or if Italy is on the Central Powers' side.
** The Black Sea is controlled by Russia if not at war with Turkey.
*** The Eastern Mediterranean is contested if Italy is on the Central
Powers' side.

The sea of Marmara is considered part of the Eastern Mediterranean for
missions. This sea and the straights (Bosporus and Dardanelles) are
controlled by Turkey. No movement is possible there for as long as Turkey
is neutral.

Important: control of the North Sea has a direct influence on the
Blockade.

14.1.2 Ports
The ports provide shelter, repair and anchorage for the fleets and are the
start places and end places of any naval movement. If the Enemy conquers
a port, the fleet flees to another friendly port. There are mostly two kind of
ports:
● Major: capacity is 2 warfleets, good repair facilities.
● Minor: capacity is limited to 2 ship squadrons, and low repair
facilities.

14.1.3 Warfleets
Ships are stacked together in warfleets or in stacks up to 2 ship squadrons
each. There are 3 types of fleets (with associated EP cost for activation):
big fleets (3 EP), medium fleets (2 EP) and small fleets (1 EP).

● If a fleet contains battleships (B, BB or BC), it must contain at least
1 DD or CL as a screen.
● Each fleet has information: Name and speed, size and cost.
● A big fleet (3 EP) must have 1 B, BB or BC.
● A medium fleet (2 EP) must have at least 1 AC or CL (or better).

14.1.4 Ship Squadrons
Each ship squadron represents from 1 to 5 ships , and have the following
ship types (identified by the grey square on the counter).
BB: Modern battleships
BC: Battlecruisers (fast battleships)
B: Older battleships
AC: Armored Cruisers
CL: Light Cruisers
DD: Destroyers
SS: Submarines

[Each card for a squadron has the following information on it.]

● Black circle with red support value, a bonus to combat value (from 0 to +3) when used as artillery support during
amphibious landings or coastal fortress bombardments.
● A black target symbol with a letter showing the gunfire range of the units heavy guns; either L (long range),
M (medium) or S (short range)
● A grey plate showing the type of unit (see below)
● A number indicating the actual number of ships inside the squadron
● A yellow/red explosion symbol indicated when the unit has suffered hits, with number of same.
● Name of unit
● A plate showing the fire (in attack) and protection (defensive) values of the unit, as well as its speed (used to
calculate tactical advantage in naval battles).


14.1.5 Admirals
An admiral has 3 values (0 to 3) indicating Aggressiveness, Reaction,
Tactical and his rank letter (A > B...).

During battle each admiral is automatically placed in one battleship (of a B,
BB or BC type) by the game engine or scenario.

A Fleet with no admiral is worth 0 (in aggressiveness, reaction and tactical
factors).

14.1.6 Canal, Strait, Winter
A warfleet may go through a friendly canal (Kiel and Suez). If any region is
enemy controlled, this movement is blocked.

All straits are passable to either side, except Turkish straits as long as the
fortresses at the entrance (i.e. Dardanelles) still exist. All straights may also
be mined (by the owner)

Passing through straights causes the fleet to be detected (See Game
Aides).

Gibraltar is passable by any warfleet. Fleets at Petrograd, Archangelsk,
Kronstadt and Helsinki cannot move out or in from Nov-December to
Mar-April (during these 3 turns).

14.2 Naval Operations
Usually, Naval Operations are executed during the Military Phase, because
there is no or very limited naval activity.

14.2.1 Naval Sequence
Phases in parentheses are only played when a sortie of both sides in the
same sea(s) occurs.
1. Movement
2. Sortie at Sea
(3. Naval Encounter Check)
(4. Raid and Transport Missions)
(5. Control of the Seas)

Phase 1 – Movement
Each fleet may move up to 5 seas from its start port (no more), at no risk.

Phase 2 – Sortie at Sea
The German Navy may attempt to make a sortie in the North Sea, but it will
be implemented only if successful in a secret Kaiser Wilhelm II permission
test (i.e. the sortie orders are made by the player but NOT implemented if
the Kaiser has refused it).

If allowed, both sides execute missions with their warfleets, and a naval
encounter may occur.

Phase 3 – Naval Encounter
If a fleet puts to sea, the following procedure is used.
● The game engine checks whether an encounter at sea occurs.
● If there is a contact, a naval battle takes place (at the start of which
each side chooses a combat Tactic, and then a surprise test is made
and initial range is determined).

Phase 4-bis – Naval Battle
The naval battle starts. Each side first engages its "scout fleet", a fast fleet
with the battlecruisers (BC) or cruisers.
● Each ship squadron fires, with 1 or 2 shots per combat round.
● A second warfleet may reinforce the battle, by rolling an intervention
check (which depends on the nature of the naval battle).
● The battle ends when a fleet retreats. The victorious fleet executes its
mission (if possible) or goes back to its port.
● Repeat this procedure if other fleets put to sea.

Phase 4 – Raid and Transport Missions
If a warfleet has a transport or raid mission, this mission is executed now.

Phase 5 – Control of the Seas
A side gains control of a contested (or enemy) sea for 1 turn if it executes
the "Control" mission, and either wins any naval battle the fleet is involved
in, or its warfleet(s) is alone in the sea.
● Control of the sea lasts 1 turn only.

14.2 Naval Movement and Missions
When a side decides a "sortie at sea", Phase 3 may be longer than usual,
and uses a detailed procedure.

Naval movement orders depend on Missions

14.2.1 Kaiser Wilhelm II "Luxus" Fleet
Kaiser Wilhelm II was very concerned about his beautiful war fleet (the
Hoch See Flotte), especially his battleships and therefore opposed any
risky naval engagement they could be involved in.

At the beginning of each Naval Plans, Germany makes a secret D12 check
to see whether the warfleets with battleships (B and BB) may put to sea
into the North Sea or elsewhere in a uncontrolled or contested sea (that is,
out of the Baltic Sea).
● This does not apply to German BC in their Scouting Fleet.
● When Admiral Scheer commands the "Hoch See" fleet (i.e. Germany's
main fleet), he adds a +2 bonus to the check. If it succeeds, the
Kaiser lets his battleships put to sea this turn.

If a major Naval Battle occurs and Germany is the victor with a net value
of 5 NW gain or more, Wilhelm II is delighted... from then on, this rule no
longer applies.

14.2.2 Checking the Sea and Mission Validity
A player must check which sea (friendly, contested or enemy) the fleet
will go to. This sea must be at least 1 sea away from the fleet's home
port.

Each player assigns missions, then there is a naval check for encounter,
and if successful, a naval battle ensues, or if not, nothing happens.

Enemy seas: Beware, if a fleet goes into a sea controlled by the enemy, it
has a penalty for surprise and on retreat.

Straits: (Gibraltar, Danish and Turkish Strait) If any enemy fleet passes
through a friendly straight, the enemy fleet is revealed.

Transport: If the enemy executes a mission in your friendly controlled sea
where you conduct a naval transport, you have to execute a "Transport"
mission with a fleet (to protect it) or abort the naval transport.

Mutiny: Beginning in 1917+, Germany may have to deal with mutinies when
a fleet puts to sea.

Choosing Missions
Each player chooses the "Naval Mission" for his fleet(s) and squadron(s)
from the following: In Port, Patrol, Transport, Raid and Control.
● A player may order up to 2 fleets together, with the same mission. If a
naval battle occurs, only one fleet will engage at first. The 2nd fleet
may reinforce later. The scout fleet, if present, is always the first fleet
engaged (failing that, the fleet with the lowest EP cost).
● The player may also assign different missions to his fleets, but they
will not be able to fight together easily if a battle occurs.

Range
Fleets may move up to 4 Moves each turn. The non-coastal (open) sea
zones (including the overseas ones on the globes at the bottom right of the
computer game map) cost 1 each. Each coastal sea zone uses 0 of these
move, but only for those coastal seas that are bordering the open seas
crossed.

Missions and Cost (EP)
Each mission has a cost in Economic Points (EPs). This comes in addition
to the cost each nation pays to activate the concerned fleet(s).

In Port (0 EP): In practice the fleet does not sail or makes short training
exercises near its base. The fleet spends no EP

Patrol (0 EP): The fleet patrols the target sea to find and possibly encounter
the enemy. Such a mission has a contact value of "3" (see below)

Sea transport (1 EP): The fleet escorts a military troop convoy, either bound
for a friendly port, or attempting a landing on an enemy beach. The contact
value is "0".

Raid (1 EP): The fleet tries to bombard an enemy coastal city. The contact
value is "2".

Control (3 EP): The fleet attempts to take complete control the sea area.
The contact value is "4".

COST:
The cost of a mission will be paid during the next Interphase (to resupply
the coal). At that time, the engine takes the fleets' EP values, plus all the
spent mission costs. Each time, the end cost is:
Fleets Activation Cost(EP) + Mission Cost (EP)
NB: The end cost is doubled for a Control mission.

Example: France sends its Mediterranean Fleet (3 EP) + its Scout Fleet
(1 EP) in a Control mission in the Adriatic (3 EP). The sum is 7 EP, to be
doubled because this is a Control mission = 7 x 2 = 14 EP! This cost is paid
during the next Interphase. Sending the whole French Fleet is expensive!

Example: Italy sends its Flotta Crusere (1 EP) + Flotta Mare (3 EP) on a
Raid mission (1 EP). The cost is Crusere 1 + Mare 3 + Raid 1 = 5 EP.
In addition, Britain pays every Interphase a special 4 EP extra naval cost
(to represent the maintenance of a larger naval establishment and power)

14.2.3 Contact Value and the Naval Encounter Test
Each mission has a "Contact" value (except the "in port" mission). It serves
to determine the probability of an encounter at sea.

Automatic Encounters
No check is made in the cases below, where the encounter is automatic.
● Double Controls: If both players have a control mission, their fleets
automatically meet at sea.
● Landing: If a player attempts a landing, the encounter is automatic.
● Strait: if an enemy fleet tries to cross a strait, the encounter is
automatic. Straits are: Dardanelles (in the Sea of Marmara). Gibraltar
(in the Mediterranean, before the gate). Danish straits (in the Baltic).


Encounter Test
An encounter test is made to determine whether a naval battle occurs. The
test is made by calculating the sides' difference in contact values, plus
weather and control modifiers, and comparing it with the level of the sea
hazard. If the test gives an equal or greater value, a battle occurs.

Modifiers:
+? Contact values difference (as per missions)
- 2 Rain or snow weather
+1 enemy sea

If a contact is established, the first engaged fleet is the "scout fleet". Failing
that, any 1- or 2-EP fleet. For the moment, no other fleet may take part in
the battle.

14.2.4 Most Common Sea Sorties and "Hints"
These are the most common situations players will see happen:
● If both sides choose a "Control" mission, their fleets find each other
and a naval battle occurs automatically.
● If the German chooses only a Raid or a Patrol, the fleets usually must
check for encounter to see whether or not they find each other.
● There is a surprise risk at sea. The player with surprise receives many
bonuses (but surprise is uncommon).
● To be safe, you should use 2 fleets together: First the scout fleet (with
the famous fast battlecruisers), and then the grand fleet (with all the
slower battleships).

- If a naval battle occurs, the scout fleet fights first (at a low surprise
risk). Then the 2nd fleet will try to enter the battle later.

- In the North Sea, the common sorties are, by side:

German: Sortie of the scout fleet alone to launch a raid against Great

Britain (or a patrol, to bluff); or sortie of two with the Hoch See fleet to crush
the British scout fleet (hoping it is alone, without the Home Fleet), but this
requires the Kaiser's permission.

British: Sortie of the scout fleet alone in patrol, with or without the Home
Fleet or, from time to time, a Control mission (very expensive) in order to
have the best chance to intercept and crush the German fleets.

● A huge naval battle is often tactically to the German's advantage, but
the law of numbers, when the British Home fleet is coming, changes it
into a British advantage and forces the German to make a quick
retreat in order to escape.

● In the Mediterranean, the Austrian fleet often stays in port, because
the French fleet is superior (even worse if Italy is Entente), but mostly
because of the sheer economic cost of activation. It may change if
Italy has joined the Central Powers, as the Italian and Austrian fleets
combined may prove a challenge for the French navy.

14.3 Naval Tactics and Battle Types
If a naval encounter occurs, the nature of the combat will depend on he
tactics the players choose and on chance. The players' choices have a
direct influence on the possible battles.

14.3.1 Combat Tactics
If a naval encounter occurs, each player must choose a Combat Tactic from
those offered at the start of the battle. They are simultaneously disclosed
when the fight starts.

There are 5 different tactics: T Cross the T, L Line of battle, C Column,
A Circle Arc, F Free Formation. Each tactic has an advantage or
disadvantage, depending on the enemy tactic with which it is crossed.

There are:

T: Bonus +1 to Surprise
L: Bonus +1 to all 2nd Shots and to the admiral's Aggressiveness
(rounds 1 and 2)
C: Bonus +1 for the naval Advantage and to the admiral's
Aggressiveness (rounds 1 and 2)
A: Bonus +1 to bring in the reinforcing 2nd fleet
F: Penalty -1 to the enemy admiral's Reaction
(negative value possible)

The tactics are crossed on the Tactics Chart which shows the interactions
between the chosen tactics.

[omitting tac chart which only looks like gibberish when posted like this]

Each side cross-references his tactic with that of its enemy's. The resulting
box contains either 1 letter (usually the same as the tactic), or 2 letters (the
tactic and another letter), or nothing.

Each player benefits from the bonus given by the letter(s).
● If the letter is followed by "²", the bonus is +2 instead of +1.
● If both players choose "T", only one player will get the surprise bonus.
Roll D6: even Entente, odd Central Powers.

14.3.2 Naval Recon
In European Seas (i.e. the seas not depicted on the world globes), the
player with the most Recon units has a bonus for the sea surprise test:
submarines (SS) and naval air units (with an anchor). The bonus equals the
difference of the numbers of Recon units.

All Recon units (even friendly ones from the same side) are added
together. All units have a 2-sea range.

Submarine: Each submarine (SS) counts as 1 Recon unit.

Naval planes: Each plane with an "anchor" symbol counts as 1 Recon unit
or 2 units if the Recon Indicator reaches -1 (the best value). This applies in
clear weather only. They must be based in a coastal city or town. These
naval planes are usually fighters. However, Great Britain has a naval
bomber, and Germany has a naval zeppelin. Both have an anchor.

Harwich Fleet (Great Britain): This fleet counts as 1 Recon unit in the North
Sea, English Channel and North Atlantic. The fleet need not put out to sea
on mission, as it is considered as doing routine recon mission in the
above-mentioned seas.

Aircraft Carrier: The British CV Furious (if built) may be assigned to a fleet
(e.g. Harwich fleet), and counts as a naval plane for the Sea recon.


14.3.4 The Surprise Test
During the 1st round of an encounter, one fleet may benefit from surprise.
Surprise is influenced by the Recon value, the chosen tactic, the type of
sea and the speed of naval units involved.
+ ? naval recon (depending on units difference)
+1 letter "T"; or +2 if T²
-1 enemy Controlled sea
-1 enemy strait (crossed or at the gate)
+1 friendly Controlled sea
+3 the faster fleet (if any) (ex. speed 4- > 3+)

A side that obtains a result ≥ twice that of his opponent's result gets the
benefit of Surprise.
NB: the speed of a fleet is the speed of its slowest ship squadron. i.e.
a scout fleet (speed ≤ 4) versus a common fleet (speed ≥ 3+). It is
recommended to have a scout fleet as the 1st fleet (the 2nd fleet, slower,
coming later).

14.3.5 Surprise Effects
If a side gets the surprise benefit, it gains the following advantages:
● A bonus of +3 or -3 modifier to determine the type of naval encounter.
The -3 modifier is used if the player wants to avoid a battle.
● The possibility of "Trapping" the enemy fleet.
● An automatic Tactical Advantage during the first 2 rounds.
● A bonus of +1 for all 2nd shot checks during the first 2 rounds (in
addition to the "L" tactical letter).
● The surprised side has a -1 penalty when attempting to bring its
second fleet in at the end of the 1st round (or 2nd round if Trapped).

There are another eight pages of rules after this. Out of fifteen (this was about half). The Gold upgrade added and polished a few things like the sub warfare box.

[JasonPratt]

I was going to say that the most detailed naval battle system for a WW1 computer game I know of, is HOI2's commercial super-mod Darkest Hour (for the WW1 campaign of course), or possibly the end-game of Victoria 2 if you can get there  ::), but maybe not...?

[republic]

I'd actually forgotten about Darkest Hour, I'll have to give it a try!

[Nefaro]

WW1G has the most detailed treatment of all the ground war oriented hex-and-counter wargames I've seen. 

It was one of the facets I least understood in that game because large fleets are expensive to send out and very risky.  So it's not exactly encouraged to sail them around all over the place and get in battles every turn, as with most other such games.

[Cyrano]

Will German fleets mutiny out to sea post 1917 as indicated?

I've never seen that...

Jason, your post really got me thinking.  I had read only the game's manual -- rather small, IIRC -- and was unaware of the layers of detail you describe above.  I wonder now how much of the feeling of nigh-Euro-simplicity I felt while playing the naval aspect of the game is the result of my own ignorance of how much was going on under the hood and how much is ultimately unnecessary chrome that washed out over the course of game...law of large numbers and all that.

Fascinating...

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[JasonPratt]

^^ Probably both: the bells and whistles tend to cancel each other out, and the stuff under the hood isn't obvious enough to show how it's making a difference.

Back last summer, when I was messing around with playing Russia in DH, trying to set up an AAR (and survive the tendency of the Germans to turn my flank to the north and meanwhile hit my line with overwhelming force, and try to make underlying improvements soon enough to matter a damn, etc.), I appreciated how the Europa engine's naval side gave me some realistic control over fleet maneuvers (though possibly not politically realistic enough). And how utterly little that mattered, since the German fleet could ruin me if I stuck my neck out in the Baltics whereas the Turks wouldn't let my Black Sea Fleet do anything but putter around waiting for the Ottomans to enter the war.

(As an aside, in connection to a recent thread here elsewhere on contemporary maritime disasters of the period worse than the Titantic or Lusitania, I was pleased to see the designers acknowledge Russia having surprisingly advanced sub tech for the time -- a point also unexpectedly acknowledged in the post-war silent film fable Civilization when a Russian aristocrat, having died refusing to sink civilians in a sub design he invented, comes back to life hosting the spirit of Jesus Christ.  :o On the other hand, I wasn't so pleased to see the second largest airforce at the start of WW1 reduced to a few bomber squads already obsolete in 1914.)

So on my second runthrough I canceled upgrades for my battleships (and other such things) to free up industrial capacity, and tried to find a way to get the fleet over to the Pacific where it could do some good. Alas, that wouldn't be possible without the US coming into the war on the side of the Entente, and I never survived long enough for that to happen.

Still, those two runthroughs were an amazing (early) WW1 experience. Once I finish the PanzOrc AAR (or Season 1 anyway), I may go back and post up fragments from one or both those attempts and try to poll for advice on how to survive as Russia if possible.