Marvel's Agent Carter

[Sir Slash]

I caught the premier tonight and I like it. Very well done with Howard Stark and a real human Jarvis the Butler included. Lots of action and a great period piece for 1946. I'm not sure who the bad guys are yet, Hydra or Commies but who cares. If you like Agents of Shield then you'll like this one too. O0

[bayonetbrant]

I've got it on the DVR.  At one point, we had 4 things or so recording here, all while watching 'Canes-Predators.

[Centurion40]

I really didn't like it at first, but after the first half-hour I started to enjoy it.

Funny, I think that mirth said the same thing after his first "date" with Star....  :P

[mirth]

Like the show. Never learned to enjoy dating Star. He's too needy.

[JasonPratt]

Okay, I'm going to yammer on a while about a plot design problem which has been bugging me. But I've been terribly meh about this new miniseries coming. I watched the two-part start (out of 7 eps coming if I recall), and aside from a few overly convenient plot absurdities I liked it -- yet against my like I felt this steady meh gnawing in the back of my head and I could not for the life of me put my finger on it.

Was it because I was annoyed to be taking a break from Shield after they've scratched and clawed back to being a decent show after a little more than half of season 1 felt so squandered? Kind of, but not entirely. (And so far AC has been better plot designed though of course not as ambitious.)

Was it because I wanted more WW2 adventures? Kind of, but I understood the reasoning for setting it just after WW2.

Was it because a lot of the plot setup requires leaning on the utterly weak reason why Cap can't be on the show? -- yes, show, remind me again that the movie writers couldn't think of a good way to get Steve frozen, and so had to introduce rank idiocies into the plot at its tragically climactic moment. That sure doesn't help me feel better about the show: the plot shouldn't have happened because there was no good reason Cap had to go down with the plane. But, no, as annoying as that was, it wasn't this weird fundamental annoyance running in the back of my mind up to and during AC's first eps.

Then in the 2nd ep, Jarvis is talking to Peggy and is trying to convince her not to withdraw from a 'normal' life and also to stop pushing people away when she may need to depend on them to succeed. He finally gets through to her by saying something along the lines of "You want to be strong like the Captain, but the Captain depended on you; you were there for him and supported him. So let us support and help you."

...and that's when I figured out my underlying annoyance with the premise of this show.

The writers are asking us to care about a character who DID NOT IN FACT support and help Captain America. Worse than that, actually.

What is this great tragic doomed romance which we're supposed to be getting past? Why are we supposed to be already invested in caring about an Agent Carter series?

I defy anyone to argue that the two characters interacted with each, in any personal way, other more than two weeks total. My guess would be more like a week. I might accept a week and  a half. Two would be my absolute limit.

This is partially obscured because they were doing things in some proximity longer than that in the film, but what did their time together actually amount to?

1.) She's the British Liaison for the  Rebirth Project (or whatever it was called, Erskine's super-soldier project with Howard Stark and General um Jones. ;) ) She's around on base where Steve is being evaluated and getting basic training. She gets his attention a little, he gets her attention a little, that's it. They don't interact at all that I recall; nothing suggests more than a couple of words spoken in passing.

2.) She escorts him to the experiment. They have a conversation in a cab. She's nice to him in a pitying way.

3.) She acts like she just won the lottery when he Caps up at the experiment. OMIGOSH THE POOR SCHMOE I WAS NICE TO IN THE CAR TURNED INTO THIS GODLY SPECIMEN I'M PROBABLY THE ONLY WOMAN WHO HAS EVER BEEN NICE TO HIM!!!  ^-^ She kind of telegraphs she's happy that she likely has the most chance with him post-transformation, but otherwise they don't interact at all.

4.) He pushes her out of the way, somewhat clumsily, trying to protect her when she was about to deal with the assassin. He apologizes and runs off. She's huffed.

5.) Then she goes back to the war, continuing to be the British liaison for the General. For the next several months he's on bond-raising duty because the Army doesn't want to risk him in combat.

6.) By purest coincidence she's in a position to lend him some aid and support when he goes off to rescue Bucky and the Howling Commandos (or Invaders, I can't recall which name the movie gives the crew). Her aid and support, aside from believing in him and standing up for him to the general for a minute and a half? Getting Howard Stark, whom she's friends with, to fly them over the enemy so Cap can bail out.

7.) Back to London after the rescue. The general sends her (or she volunteers) to go ask Cap for briefing on what his missions generally will be (hunting Hydra bases). She arrives at the pub dressed in a flashy red outfit, clearly for his benefit. Then she leaves again, having made her impression. So far this is completely consonant with a pretty shallow reaction from her to the prospect of scoring with the new nice hunk since, again, she's the only woman who has ever been even briefly nice to him (as far as she knows, and as far as we've ever seen).

8.) The next day, another woman collars Steve at the SSR base and before he can extricate himself Peggy walks up on it. Instead of accepting his explanation and/or punching the woman for taking advantage of Steve's naivety, she's royally pissed, decides he must be a pig, and SHOOTS LIVE PISTOL ROUNDS AT HIM before walking off.

9.) For the next several months, maybe for the next year or so, Cap and the Invaders (or Howlings whatever) kick ass crunching down on Hydra bases. (The movie tie-in game shows the first such mission, which by the way is great.) The film is clear that she spends this whole time giving him the cold shoulder; she's surprised and embarrassed to learn FROM NEWSREEL FOOTAGE that he keeps a little picture of her in his compass fob.

10.) After what happens with Bucky (spoiler for one of the oldest plots in comic books and a movie several years old), she finds him at the now-blitzed pub in London where he's grieving. I don't want to minimize the real support someone can give just by being there at a time like that, but basically she doesn't know what to say or do other than to confirm what he's already figured out: he can't get drunk. Let's say a couple of platonic hours, tops.

11.) She happens to be around for the assault on the final Hydra base, for no real reason other than to be in the car for him to kiss and ask for a date before catching the plane. Note: they haven't had even one date yet. The pub quietness didn't count. That was his first kiss with her. This is heavily emphasized in the tragic followup. "I had a date." Why haven't they even had one date yet? BECAUSE SHE WAS SHUNNING HIM FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF HIS TIME AS CAPTAIN AMERICA! During this fight she supports him otherwise exactly none.

12.) She admittedly does give him halfway decent support (from the Hydra base??) by trying to convince him of what's patently obvious: he doesn't have to go down with the plane, there are other options. (The comic version of the story is usually better about this: he's blasted into cold water by a missile exploding.) As some humor sites have noticed, it's almost like he's trying to avoid going out on a date with her!


So let's recap. (Pun not originally intended. ;) ) So far as the movie tells us, she has a brief and completely shallow physical attraction to him, plus thinks he's a nice guy until her attraction looks irrationally like it might be thwarted and then she spends his entire military career (for all practical purposes) twisting a knife in his heart. Far from supporting him, if anything she was dangerously distracting him by emotional assassination! She kept this up until the final couple of days of his (WW2) life, and didn't spend much time supporting him in any clear way then either.

And I'm supposed to be feeling sorry for her losing Cap, and thus emotionally invested in her recovering and rebuilding her life without him.

Uh. No. She was nice to him for a few minutes before most of his career, and at the end of his career, and emotionally mauled him the rest of the time. The Nurse Betty Carver (or whatever her name was) in the radio serial supported the (fictional version of) Cap miles better than Agent Carter ever did, aside from maybe radioing mission info to him.


As I said, I actually like the show, but as far as I'm concerned it has an uphill battle trying to convince me to give much of a hoot what happens with Peggy Carter.

That being said, Haley Atwill is selling as much of the hell as she can out of the role. I especially liked the way Carter can go from kicking ass to crying over a friend. That was well-played. Basically I like the character so long as I'm not being asked to pretend like she was supporting him in any way more than random minor officers supported him without them stomping all over his heart for utterly petty and irrational reasons during the war!  ::)

[GDS_Starfury]

unplug dude.

have a beer or 10.

[Sir Slash]

The show strikes me as more Josh Weddon than Marvel gospel. Kind of Buffy the Hydra-Slayer. Or whoever the bad guys turn out to be. But I like it because it's not Marvel Doctrine mandatory. I want to see something done a little differently though it'll probably not be that different. And I love the old cars. Maybe a "Shields" cross-over with a new-born Agent Mae or a young Colson in short pants.

[JasonPratt]

unplug dude.

have a beer or 10.

Heh, if you think I'm going to be more coherent or mellow after even one beer... ;)

[JasonPratt]

The show strikes me as more Josh Weddon than Marvel gospel. Kind of Buffy the Hydra-Slayer. Or whoever the bad guys turn out to be. But I like it because it's not Marvel Doctrine mandatory. I want to see something done a little differently though it'll probably not be that different. And I love the old cars. Maybe a "Shields" cross-over with a new-born Agent Mae or a young Colson in short pants.

I expect we'll see Shield crossovers of some sort (we already did in Shield, actually, with a flashback showing Carter and the Invad-os recovering the Terrigen container). And I agree with the other parts, too. :)

[mirth]

Season 2 promo art

[Staggerwing]

I approve.

[bayonetbrant]

I liked that show way better than the Agents of SHIELD series

[Sir Slash]

That woman is dangerous in a skirt and high-heels.

[mirth]

That woman is dangerous in a skirt and high-heels.