ASL scenario to Conflict of Heroes conversion > Out Now

MikeGER · August 27, 2012, 10:06:01 AM

Double Deuce, congrats on your work and especially your dedication to the ASL to CoH project 8)
i will surly try your stuff when i find a way to squeeze into my f#*%ing timetable :'( ...at the latest when late summer turns into Indian summer and worse, outdoor activities will fade away... and my rich harvest of all kind of already collected wargaming-material old an new will spring to live :)

joram · August 27, 2012, 12:22:27 PM

Yeah, it looks great. I tried it last night along with Jamm's work as well. I've forgotten about the scenario from ASL days so I wasn't quite sure how to setup and got my butt kicked. Also, remember one reason the AI does well is that it gets unit bonuses on everything higher than easy so you may need to finetune the number of units for that impact if you want it to be balanced on anything above easy.

GJK · August 27, 2012, 09:33:27 PM

Germans	ASL	COH (with each SW as a full team)	COH (with leaders as a squad)
Squads	13	21	26

Soviets	ASL	COH (with each SW as a full team)	COH (with leaders as a squad)
Squads	21	22	25

It's interesting to note that if leaders are counted as full squads in the COH, conversion, the Germans actually have more "squads" than the Russians!

So the Russians actually are close in squad count to what ASL has them at. You have quite a bit more Germans than what ASL gives, yet from at least two of the playtests, the Germans have a hard time (even against a Russian AI).

Let's compare the OB's from the ASL scenario. In it, both the Germans and Russians have 1st Line squads. The Germans have a great 9-2 leader and the Russians have the mighty 10-2 leader. The Russians have 3 leaders with a total negative DRM of -3. The Germans have 5 leaders with a total DRM of -5. Edge to the Germans, especially when you compare #Leaders per squad ratio (Russian .14 leaders/squad to Germany's .38 leaders/squad).

In SW's, the Germans get the brutal HMG that has a higher output of Firepower than a full squad (in ASL) as well as a MMG and 4 LMG's. The Russians have a lone MMG. MG Firepower comparison: Germany's 30 FP's to Russia's 4. Heavily favored to the Germans here as well.

How about squad FP?Russia has more than 1/3'rd more troops than the Germans. Russian total FP for squads: 108 to German's 52. More than twice as much firepower which is what you'd expect for a scenario where the defender is emplaced or in heavy terrain and the attacker has to completely reveal themselves to get to the defender.

Total FP output for Russians: 112
Total FP output for Germans: 82

Those MG's make it very tough for the Russians in the ASL scenario. The only way for the Russians to win is how they did it historically; overwhelm with far greater numbers. Coincidentally, that's what the AI seems to do in the COH scenario.

So does it work (converting ASL to COH)?It was pretty fun. Not sitting across a table from a human opponent playing ASL fun. . . but it was fun. ;)

I would be curious to see how the numbers stack up in the conversion as compared to the ASL scenario.

Edit: I just confirmed that the leaders in ASL are not getting their own squad counter in the COH conversion. So, there's 21 German squads to 22 Russian... Almost the same! Does this prove that:
a) COH models MG's weaker than does ASL?
b) The attacker has advantages that they don't have in ASL?
c) ???

GJK · August 27, 2012, 10:17:45 PM

Just played again. It was interesting how many times the Soviets would move into the street and I would shoot with a unit from a stone building and miss and they would counter attack and eliminate my squad(s) (more than one at a time multiple times!).

My HMG would fire at a Soviet moving across the open street at a range of 3 hexes and miss - and miss - and miss and then maybe damage the unit. Run into the open in front of a HMG in ASL and see what happens! You get a dreaded 6 -2 shot at the minimum, 8 -4 (!) if it's using a squad and the 9-2 leader for the shot.

Fire back at the defenders in the stone building in ASL? +3 DRM on the shot and if you moved, your FP is halved. If you moved that MMG (Soviet player), then you can't fire it in the Advancing Fire Phase. In COH, seems you can move and shoot as long as you have points to spend with little or no penalty.

I just don't know COH very well. I got it when it first came out. Uwe Eckert is a very nice guy. I did the first Zun Tzu gamebox for COH and Ewe would call me on the phone telling me what he wanted in the module. He sent me the hi-rez graphics that were used for the printers for the gamebox. He then shipped me a free copy of the game! I played it a few times with my (then) 8 or 9 yr old. He's now 13 and plays ASL with me. :)

Bottom-line though - the scenario is still fun to play and it's a challenge as the Germans which is what you want when playing against the AI. I'm sure that as I learn COH and the AI's tendancies, this will be a cakewalk to win but for now it's an entertaining 30-40 minutes.

junk2drive · August 27, 2012, 10:40:41 PM

Learning to use group move and fire, managing CAPs, have both been hard for me. Grasp that and get some lucky cards and rolls and you just might get a win.

Double Deuce · August 28, 2012, 02:02:05 PM

Quote from: GJK on August 27, 2012, 09:33:27 PMEdit: I just confirmed that the leaders in ASL are not getting their own squad counter in the COH conversion. So, there's 21 German squads to 22 Russian... Almost the same! Does this prove that:
a) COH models MG's weaker than does ASL?
b) The attacker has advantages that they don't have in ASL?

a) It looks that way in my testing at least so far.
b) See reply for a). ;)

I am currently trying to work up a consistent conversion formula that can be used as the basis for porting ASL scenarios into CoH. Will it be as accurate as I would like? Not sure, but I think if I can come up with something solid enough it will give the feel that the scenario's are balanced and most importantly, enjoyable to play from either side vs the AI as well as PvP online.

Double Deuce · August 28, 2012, 02:21:54 PM

Next up and the one I will put my conversion formula to the test . . . Pavlov's House.

GJK · August 28, 2012, 09:32:44 PM

Your board 1 conversion looks good. The roads are very good and appear to be accurate. As you mentioned, the limitation of COH is the lack of multihex buildings which is a shame. Do the woods block LOS in COH? I think that they do.
Again, I couldn't get over the numerous times of shooting at a moving squad in the street only to miss and then have a counterattack KIA not just one, but two squads in adjacent hexes that were in a stone building. I think I'd of done better if I waited until they entered my stone building before I shot at them! :)