Matinique, April 17, 1780, 11:55 AM

[MengJiao]

  Rodney has just signaled Engage for the second time.  I won't go into the historical details, but since this battle is rarely mentioned, one might suppose the RN did not do very well.

   The French Admiral De Guichen (played here by De Grasse) is about to signal his van commander, de Sade (played here by Bouvet) to put up some sail and get back to support the center.

[bayonetbrant]

having not played anything other than WS&IM years ago, I wouldn't even know where to start w/ an Age of Sail game.  But if someone ever set up a 90-minute one at a convention, and had a couple of guys on each side playing w/ a rules ref to keep us in line, I think I'd totally jump on the chance.

[MengJiao]

having not played anything other than WS&IM years ago, I wouldn't even know where to start w/ an Age of Sail game.  But if someone ever set up a 90-minute one at a convention, and had a couple of guys on each side playing w/ a rules ref to keep us in line, I think I'd totally jump on the chance.

  They are interesting, but problematic.  Part of the problem, I think, is that they simulate sailing the ships reasonably well, but the actual mechanisms of fighting are either abstract or simply incorrect.  For example, you would not shoot better if shooting high to the windward, this seems to be a complete myth enshrined in all sailing games.  It is (I think) a rationalization of why you want to shoot high if somebody is sailing at you from the windward:

1) the range is changing -- shooting high increases your chance of some kind of hit (because the hull is a relatively small target and sails, yards, masts and rigging are huge
2) you want to hit the sail structure to block them from concentrating on part of your line
3) you want to open fire early and at such a distance that disabling sails or getting some hits at a shifting range is worthwhile
4) you have close to raking shots, but at long range that translates into more of a chance of a hit (longitudinal/range) rather than slaughtering the gun deck which isn't possible at long range

And the business about close-range hull shots being the best way to win...well if you have the luxury of getting to close range, sure...but EVERYTHING else has to work very well for that to happen and be worthwhile.

So I'm working on modding Flying Colors to get the mechanisms closer to reality.

[MengJiao]

having not played anything other than WS&IM years ago, I wouldn't even know where to start w/ an Age of Sail game.  But if someone ever set up a 90-minute one at a convention, and had a couple of guys on each side playing w/ a rules ref to keep us in line, I think I'd totally jump on the chance.

20 minutes into the action.  Parker's running in with the van is working this time.  Rodney is lagging.  Rowley with the rear squadron is assumed to be neutralizing the French rear as he did.

De Sade is wearing around, but that's not going so well.   De Guichen in the center is about to come in range (1250 yards or 10 hexes in this version of the mod).  Parker is closing at about 5 and a half knots (7 125-yard hexes in 5 minutes).  Some shooting next turn which may allow the new "dodge the shot" rules to come into play as well as the "if out of the exact broadside then fire is reduced" rule.  Anyway, hopefully nobody will be dismasted at 900 yds.

[MengJiao]

20 minutes into the action.  Parker's running in with the van is working this time.  Rodney is lagging.  Rowley with the rear squadron is assumed to be neutralizing the French rear as he did.

De Sade is wearing around, but that's not going so well.   De Guichen in the center is about to come in range (1250 yards or 10 hexes in this version of the mod).  Parker is closing at about 5 and a half knots (7 125-yard hexes in 5 minutes).  Some shooting next turn which may allow the new "dodge the shot" rules to come into play as well as the "if out of the exact broadside then fire is reduced" rule.  Anyway, hopefully nobody will be dismasted at 900 yds.

  Okay!  Nobody gets dismasted!  De Sade tacks.  Parker keeps running in (if he had managed this historically he would be remembered as a good admiral).  Everybody furls sails (a few fail the test).  The English get some hits on Hercule.  Rodney in the biggest (if not the best-gunned) ship is still lagging a bit.

[MengJiao]

20 minutes into the action.  Parker's running in with the van is working this time.  Rodney is lagging.  Rowley with the rear squadron is assumed to be neutralizing the French rear as he did.

De Sade is wearing around, but that's not going so well.   De Guichen in the center is about to come in range (1250 yards or 10 hexes in this version of the mod).  Parker is closing at about 5 and a half knots (7 125-yard hexes in 5 minutes).  Some shooting next turn which may allow the new "dodge the shot" rules to come into play as well as the "if out of the exact broadside then fire is reduced" rule.  Anyway, hopefully nobody will be dismasted at 900 yds.

  Okay!  Nobody gets dismasted!  De Sade tacks.  Parker keeps running in (if he had managed this historically he would be remembered as a good admiral).  Everybody furls sails (a few fail the test).  The English get some hits on Hercule.  Rodney in the biggest (if not the best-gunned) ship is still lagging a bit.

  5 minutes later, De Guichen hauls back to close-hauled.  Hercule elects to fire at Irresistible at 1125 yds.    Irresistable sees this coming (or just happens to speed up) and puts on sail and dodges the shot (passing a crew check, wasting Hercule's shot and foregoing any return fire).  Probably at 1125 yds this was not a good move and the extra sail leaves Irresistable open to more damage if there is another shot at her).  Hercule was firing right down her central broadside so the chance of some kind of hits would have been good:

[MengJiao]

  5 minutes later, De Guichen hauls back to close-hauled.  Hercule elects to fire at Irresistible at 1125 yds.    Irresistable sees this coming (or just happens to speed up) and puts on sail and dodges the shot (passing a crew check, wasting Hercule's shot and foregoing any return fire).  Probably at 1125 yds this was not a good move and the extra sail leaves Irresistable open to more damage if there is another shot at her).  Hercule was firing right down her central broadside so the chance of some kind of hits would have been good:

finishing that turn (except for ships trying to change sail and put out fires), about half an hour into the battle, de Sade is looking very bad (missed stays while tacking...oh dear) and Parker is blasting Hercule -- which with fires and such really is still mostly okay.  On the other hand de Sade's mess shows why many captains would do anything to stay in a line of battle, no matter what the admiral might signal over and over:

[MengJiao]

finishing that turn (except for ships trying to change sail and put out fires), about half an hour into the battle, de Sade is looking very bad (missed stays while tacking...oh dear) and Parker is blasting Hercule -- which with fires and such really is still mostly okay.  On the other hand de Sade's mess shows why many captains would do anything to stay in a line of battle, no matter what the admiral might signal over and over:

  But 5 minutes later and the French crash through the English line of battle, cutting off the van and coming at it from 3 sides.  Rodney has the battle he wanted, but when the smoke clears, maybe he won't be quite so happy about it:

[MengJiao]

  But 5 minutes later and the French crash through the English line of battle, cutting off the van and coming at it from 3 sides.  Rodney has the battle he wanted, but when the smoke clears, maybe he won't be quite so happy about it:

  Five minutes later, Parker is wounded, lots of damage all over.  Invincible grapples the line-breaker Solitaire and prepares to board.  This was possible mostly because Solitaire has only 1 marine  point left.

[MengJiao]

  But 5 minutes later and the French crash through the English line of battle, cutting off the van and coming at it from 3 sides.  Rodney has the battle he wanted, but when the smoke clears, maybe he won't be quite so happy about it:

  Five minutes later, Parker is wounded, lots of damage all over.  Invincible grapples the line-breaker Solitaire and prepares to board.  This was possible mostly because Solitaire has only 1 marine  point left.

So, maybe 45 minutes into the action, the French have lost 2 ships (one struck and one captured) and their commanding admiral has been killed (and the flagship is on fire).  So their historical move (which was to retire before any of this could happen) was apparently correct.

  It seems like with just a little luck the French might win this one if I restart it.