Early Access Title Removed From Steam

[Jarhead0331]

This thread highlights the peculiar place Steam has found themselves in.

They're in a balancing act between being a publisher (which they're not) and a web portal/marketplace for content regardless of quality (which they're customers don't want them to be).  Their revenues (and more importantly, their profits) only scale if they can make more money with each new release than they did with a prior release, so they'd love to just be a web portal.  But if the quality of their offerings slips too far, their clients will start to move to other platforms.

Given some of the stories I've heard about their customer service, I'd prefer they focus on that area first, rather than allocating scarce resources to vetting Early Access games in advance of release.  Since Early Access as a label really just means "Not Finished Yet", I don't have a lot of sympathy for folks who pay for Early Access titles and then are disappointed at what they get. 

While there are lots of shades of gray here, the "Early Access" label signals to me that any content a developer claims to have may or may not actually work and should be taken with a huge grain of salt. 

This discussion does raise an interesting question though: Should Steam focus its resources on quality control (or even truth in advertising) for the games it sells, or just let the developers and free marketplace dynamics handle that and put a bigger caveat emptor sign on their front door?

I don't think Steam has a choice.  Advertisements, whether on the Internet, radio or television, or anywhere else, must comply with the law which provides that an ad must be truthful, and not misleading. If steam is posting misleading ads, whether they prepared the ad or not, I think they are open to liability, and that could be much more expensive then screening the content they make available for sale on their website.

[tgb]

Let me make an analogy that might help Jarhead and some others on Steam's responsibility as a distributor/sales platform.

My local Safeway carries Jif peanut butter, and sometimes features it in their weekly ad. Yes, if it should come to light that Jif is actually made from 99% rat droppings and 1% sugar, they should, and probably would, pull it off the shelf.  But it's not their responsibility to conduct a survey to see if 9 out of 10 choosy mothers actually DO choose Jif, and then pull the product from the shelves or the ad if it turns out it's only 4 out of 10.  Are you saying I have the right to sue Safeway if the number of choosy mothers preferring Jif is less than 9 out of 10?

Steam is the Safeway of games.  No more, no less.  The only difference other than the product selection is how that product gets into your home.

[Jarhead0331]

Let me make an analogy that might help Jarhead and some others on Steam's responsibility as a distributor/sales platform.

My local Safeway carries Jif peanut butter, and sometimes features it in their weekly ad. Yes, if it should come to light that Jif is actually made from 99% rat droppings and 1% sugar, they should, and probably would, pull it off the shelf.  But it's not their responsibility to conduct a survey to see if 9 out of 10 choosy mothers actually DO choose Jif, and then pull the product from the shelves or the ad if it turns out it's only 4 out of 10.  Are you saying I have the right to sue Safeway if the number of choosy mothers preferring Jif is less than 9 out of 10?

Steam is the Safeway of games.  No more, no less.  The only difference other than the product selection is how that product gets into your home.

With all due respect, I do not need your help on Steam's responsibility.  I am a lawyer and am very familiar with the law in this area.  A retailer can be exposed to liability from consumers and competitors for misleading advertisements, regardless of the fact that the ad is prepared by the product manufacturer. Do you need me to prepare a legal brief on the issue, or will you just take my word?  :P

So yes, Safeway can be exposed to liability from choosy mothers, regulatory agencies and even competitors, such as King Kullen or Shopright.

[tgb]

If that's respect I'd hate to see condescension.  Sorry I didn't check the bar directory for every state looking for a lawyer named Jarhead prior to posting.  I'll be more diligent in the future.

[Jarhead0331]

If that's respect I'd hate to see condescension.  Sorry I didn't check the bar directory for every state looking for a lawyer named Jarhead prior to posting.  I'll be more diligent in the future.

Not necessary, and your apology is accepted. Try to do some research next time before making stuff up though.

...and seriously, I was just busting your balls. Didn't you see my little smiley face? That means I can treat you as harshly as I want and then say I didn't mean it after the fact. Don't be so butt hurt, bro...afterall, you learned something today!  8)

[tgb]

Forgotten.  I missed the smiley, and I was just coming here to apologize for being so hot-headed.  :)

But you still didn't answer my main point, which is, other than the products they carry and the method of distribution, what really is the difference between Steam and the local supermarket?  If I am/should be able to sue Steam over false claims made by the manufacturer of a product they carry, why can't I sue Walmart or Sears or Target or any b&m retailer on the same basis?

And if you say I can, then Woo Hoo!  Here comes the gravy train!  Will you represent me (on a percentage basis, of course)?  :-*

[Steelgrave]

It's probably comparing apples and oranges, but I've always wondered why snake-oil products, such as Extenze and however many weight-loss pills/potions you care to name, are all over tv and radio advertising with no apparent liability towards the cable/broadcast/radio stations. I imagine there is a free-speech angle here, but using the Extenze folks as an example, they wouldn't have made millions selling a fake product without the help of advertisers eager to take their money. Same goes for every miracle weight loss pill and the numerous mortgage scams that saturated Phoenix airwaves just a few years ago.

I get that there is a difference between a retailer and an advertiser, but still.....it Steams me that advertisers get away with this.

[SgtRock]

Early Access Title Removed From Steam - Does this mean Steam now has a money back guaranty for early release?

The following article points out of the need of some clear standards for early games because, right now you can't tell the difference between honest developers with a real game vs some one with a half-finished/half-baked version that may never be completed. Sometimes even honest developers can't finish a project due to illness, family issues, money problems, etc.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/editorials/28069/early-access-on-steam-paying-the-price-for-unfinished-games

[tgb]

The only early access titles I buy now are from developers whose previous work I liked, or a title that actually has a release date announced and is getting good feedback.  So the last two I purchased are Xenonauts and Endless Legends.  I've been on the fence regarding Plague Inc:Evolved because there already seems to be a lot of content to it,but I still want to see what the finished product looks like.

[SgtRock]

It's probably comparing apples and oranges, but I've always wondered why snake-oil products, such as Extenze and however many weight-loss pills/potions you care to name, are all over tv and radio advertising with no apparent liability towards the cable/broadcast/radio stations. I imagine there is a free-speech angle here, but using the Extenze folks as an example, they wouldn't have made millions selling a fake product without the help of advertisers eager to take their money. Same goes for every miracle weight loss pill and the numerous mortgage scams that saturated Phoenix airwaves just a few years ago.

I get that there is a difference between a retailer and an advertiser, but still.....it Steams me that advertisers get away with this.

This is an easy one, it's because products such as weight loss products are unregulated, unless they start to kill people the FDA doesn't approve/dis-approve them.

Right now the Software Industry is the most unregulated industry in the world! Create a billion dollar health care website that doesn't work, that's ok, it's not our fault, no one even get's sued!

Software bugs that crash or sell/buy a wrong million dollar stock order, are treated like an act of God!

[Jarhead0331]

Forgotten.  I missed the smiley, and I was just coming here to apologize for being so hot-headed.  :)

But you still didn't answer my main point, which is, other than the products they carry and the method of distribution, what really is the difference between Steam and the local supermarket?  If I am/should be able to sue Steam over false claims made by the manufacturer of a product they carry, why can't I sue Walmart or Sears or Target or any b&m retailer on the same basis?

And if you say I can, then Woo Hoo!  Here comes the gravy train!  Will you represent me (on a percentage basis, of course)?  :-*

Well, I think that is pretty much my point.  Theoretically, there really is no difference between Steam and a local supermarket. It is a brave new digital world and the law is only just beginning to catch up with our technological reality. If Steam is smart, they will see the writing on the wall and start to cover their ass. They do not necessarily need to address the problem of developer dishonesty by expending their own assets/time/money. They could shift these costs onto the developers by requiring any third-party placing ads on steam to defend and indemnify steam in the event steam is sued due to a false or misleading advertising claim. Steam definitely has options, they just need a good lawyer...hmmmm...wonder if they are hiring?

[MuzzyDev]

Before you can get a game up on Early Access, there is a set of questions you get from Valve that should help you decide if it is the right path for your game.  You don't send them answers, it's more for you, the developer.  I can't see going on Early Access without a real plan for finishing your game and thinking it is going to end well.  People will remember this failure and it's doubtful these guys are walking away with any money.  Just an unfinished game and a damaged reputation.  Barring some catastrophic circumstance (key team member dying or something) that would explain the failure, their name is mud. 

For those wary of participating in Early Access, I can totally understand that.  Like any other product it is "buyer beware" and you should always look at who's making the product and their reputation.  We laid out a very clear path for our development plan right there on our Steam page, and we've kept to that schedule.  We expect more people to buy TGW between now and release as they watch the development and see the progress. 

Chris--



Chris--

[Nefaro]

Before you can get a game up on Early Access, there is a set of questions you get from Valve that should help you decide if it is the right path for your game.  You don't send them answers, it's more for you, the developer.  I can't see going on Early Access without a real plan for finishing your game and thinking it is going to end well.  People will remember this failure and it's doubtful these guys are walking away with any money.  Just an unfinished game and a damaged reputation.  Barring some catastrophic circumstance (key team member dying or something) that would explain the failure, their name is mud. 

One thing about the developer of this specific game that was pulled (there have been others!) is that the guy had previously ran a Kickstarter campaign for a different prototype game that was either bogus or was never gonna to actually be finished.  Sounds like that was another big black mark against this specific one.. a history of poor intentions.

For those wary of participating in Early Access, I can totally understand that.  Like any other product it is "buyer beware" and you should always look at who's making the product and their reputation.  We laid out a very clear path for our development plan right there on our Steam page, and we've kept to that schedule.  We expect more people to buy TGW between now and release as they watch the development and see the progress. 

Chris--



Chris--

Ultimately it's up to the customer to decide whether they want to drop money on something that may never be finished, or may not deliver on all it's promises. 

The most notable problem in this example was the utterly childish behavior of the programmer after the inevitable criticism.   Last big nail in the coffin.

[skeptical.platypus]

So how does the law, steam, or the community determine what is false advertising or a false claim, particularly in a game that is currently being developed? At what point was the 2066 game falsely advertised by either it's developers or Steam?

Are there legal precedents that might suggest what a court is going to look at in existing computer games? For example, has anyone sued a developer or distributor for a completed game because of false advertising? What criteria is a court or steam supposed to use to determine what is false advertising, and what is an unrefutable claim that your dishes will be left virtually spotless?

[skeptical.platypus]

It's probably comparing apples and oranges, but I've always wondered why snake-oil products, such as Extenze and however many weight-loss pills/potions you care to name, are all over tv and radio advertising with no apparent liability towards the cable/broadcast/radio stations. I imagine there is a free-speech angle here, but using the Extenze folks as an example, they wouldn't have made millions selling a fake product without the help of advertisers eager to take their money. Same goes for every miracle weight loss pill and the numerous mortgage scams that saturated Phoenix airwaves just a few years ago.

I get that there is a difference between a retailer and an advertiser, but still.....it Steams me that advertisers get away with this.

Or the Village Voice to profit by allowing a venue for pimps to exploit minors for sexual services. And the advertisers who pay the Village Voice for the privilege of reaching an audience that willingly pays for a venue for pimps to exploit minors for sexual services.