Yippie Ka Yay M*******!

[JasonPratt]

Nothing to add; just registering for comment tracking.  :-[

[Tpek]

That's it folks.
We're done.
The government decided to leave and supposedly reserve the right to retaliate against the attacks and deal with the Terror-tunnels...
Except the genii at our governments must have forgotten the 2nd (and most important) part of attacking back. 

So we're leaving and they're still shooting and sending countless squads of terrorists to infiltrate and butcher people in our cities&towns.

[Martok]

...The hell?? 

Did Obama secretly take over your government or something?  So confused...  ??? 

[Tpek]

...The hell?? 

Did Obama secretly take over your government or something?  So confused...  ???

Trust me, as much as some of you folks hate your government, mine's far worse.
Today it declared another pointless few hours one-sided cease fire.
During which we got attacked more. After which we were internationally condemned.
And then attacked some more (just less than an hour ago the Palestinians managed another successful attack  - murdering more innocent civilians).

[BanzaiCat]

And then attacked some more (just less than an hour ago the Palestinians managed another successful attack  - murdering more innocent civilians).

...which we certainly will not hear about it on our news over here.

Thanks for posting through this, Tpek. It's good to get the perspective of someone there.

[LongBlade]

Hamas executed workers who helped create the tunnels.

After the tunnels were completed, dozens were reportedly executed to prevent intelligence leaks to Israel.

"Anyone they suspected might transfer information to Israel on the tunnels was killed by the military wing," a different source said. "They were very cruel."

In 2012, a Journal of Palestine Studies article claimed 160 Palestinian children were killed while working on Hamas's tunnel system.

Read more: Hamas said to have executed dozens of tunnel diggers | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-have-executed-dozens-of-tunnel-diggers/

[TheCommandTent]

Hamas executed workers who helped create the tunnels.

After the tunnels were completed, dozens were reportedly executed to prevent intelligence leaks to Israel.

"Anyone they suspected might transfer information to Israel on the tunnels was killed by the military wing," a different source said. "They were very cruel."

In 2012, a Journal of Palestine Studies article claimed 160 Palestinian children were killed while working on Hamas's tunnel system.

Read more: Hamas said to have executed dozens of tunnel diggers | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-have-executed-dozens-of-tunnel-diggers/

While this is terrible is anyone really surprised by this?  Its not like Hamas uses human shields or anything ...

[BanzaiCat]

The news here certainly won't report that.

[Tpek]

Bah!
You just can't have a nice evening of reading comics filled with gratuitous violence and gore without having missiles exploding over your house.

[LongBlade]

Bah!
You just can't have a nice evening of reading comics filled with gratuitous violence and gore without having missiles exploding over your house.

Some people have no manners.

Hope you and yours are OK.

[Boggit]

At least the Iron Dome appears to have made Hamas' rocket attacks largely a waste of effort on their part. :)

You'd think that the disproportionate civilian losses in Gaza compared to Israel (what is it now, a couple of thousand compared to a handful? - not that I think any non-combatant death is justified) would illustrate the futility of the rocket bombardment policy to Hamas' leadership.

By the same token the degree of destruction wrought on Gaza in retaliation as shown to the world on our TV screens makes Israel a great recruiting sergeant for the likes of Hamas, and other terror groups. Israel's detractors can point to the destruction and say "look at what Israel is doing". They conveniently omit to mention the hundreds of rockets fired on Israel - but the scale of death and destruction is not comparable, so the media, and public opinion isn't inflamed towards Hamas in the same way. Compare the media reaction towards ISIL and their murderous progress. Like it or not a comparison is being made, although the barbarism of ISIL is significantly more abhorrent, Israel is portrayed as a fairly unrestrained bad guy. Even Assads war in Syria doesn't make the news any more. They can make highly emotive analogies and say "it's like the Nazi's destroying Warsaw", they can point to the occupied territories and say "the colonisation of these areas is akin to the Nazi policy of Lebensraum"... The door is open to outrageous comment because at least enough "evidence" is in the public domain to argue that Israel is just as bad, if not worse than Hamas towards non-Jewish civilian populations.

Now, Israel is not a "Nazi" state, but a very civilised one, but you can see how detractors can, and have, pointed to what is being shown on TV screens and make a case against Israel. Killing large numbers of civilians, whether deliberately or not, is not the answer, as it plays into the propaganda for Hamas. It's hard to see that it is avoidable in such a densely populated area, but the question of the deliberate killing of civilians does arise, even if it is incidental collateral damage. I know Hamas use human shields - but Israel is playing into their hands with the apparently disproportionate killing of non-combatants to Hamas fighters. Incidents like the shelling of hospitals, killing young boys on the beach, or deliberately targeting an unarmed man looking for his family, whilst they may be isolated, can also be argued rightly or wrongly (depending on where you sit on the argument) as a genocidal state policy.

I think what is needed is much more financial support from the West for Israel, with an emphasis on keeping the Iron Dome shield strong to protect Israeli cities, and negate (largely anyway) the Hamas rocket strikes, otherwise we'd be seeing Tel Aviv looking like Gaza. In the meantime, this apparently general bombardment of Gaza needs to stop. By nullifying the bombardment cycle, the hysteria will decline.

Israel and the West need to go after the funding sources for the likes of Hamas to limit their operations, to starve the serpent. Israel also needs to work against the public perception (certainly in Europe - if not elsewhere) that Israel operates an quasi apartheid state, which incites Arabs to blame Israel as being behind every single bad thing that happens in the Middle East. Whilst Israel can do little to change the attitudes of the more fanatical people in Hamas and the like who want to see the destruction of Israel, they can marginalise them politically, and then deal with them as the hateful organisation they are.

If all Israel has to offer Arabs is suffering then what options do they have if they feel they have nothing left to lose? Hard as it is for Israelis to do, positive, peaceful, inclusive dialogue is the only way forward if Israel wants lasting peace, and you can only do that if you have a moderate core of people left to deal with to promote the idea amongst the Arabs. I find it hard to believe that everyone in Gaza is pro Hamas, but with murderous oppression towards detractors by Hamas, and little positive experience of Israel who will your average Gazan see as their best ally?

Maybe not a popular view, but my $0.02. I'd love to see peace for both Israelis and the Palestinians in my lifetime. Am I hoping too much?

@Tpek :) and Shlomz :) Stay safe. You guys - and your families are in my thoughts. O0

[eyebiter]

.

[Boggit]

For Hamas, the loss of a thousand is a drop in the bucket.  Population growth has been a cornerstone of their strategy for years. 


Average Palestinian woman might have five or six kids.  They don't think having a large family is a problem, rather it's a form of security.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/04/gaza-growing-population-challences.html



However unchecked population growth is overwhelming the Gaza underground aquifer.  Too much water is extracted from drinking wells and crop irrigation.  Without enough natural recharge, this leads to polluted water, salt water incursion, and eventually parts of the Gaza aquifer collapse from over pumping.
http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2414449/water_in_gaza_total_collapse_draws_ever_nearer.html

For now, Gaza is living on borrowed time importing water from Israel and setting up local desalination projects built using foreign funds.  However these are stopgap measures at best.  In any future conflict, Israel can simply turn off the tap and discontinue fuel shipments though when the residents of Gaza misbehave.  Pretty tough to sustain that kind of population in the desert without access to clean water.

Long term, the same thing will happen in the West Bank once the Dead Sea dries up.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/moment/2013/09/the_dead_sea_is_dying_how_sinkholes_habitat_destruction_and_low_water_levels.html

I don't get the impression Hamas give a fig about human life so long as they achieve their aims. >:( However, you make a really insightful comment about resources, overpopulation, and social attitudes in Gaza. There is a reason China has it's one child policy - they've seen the problem of overpopulation, and opened their eyes to it. For the individual it's not a nice policy, but for the country it's extremely sensible. Gaza, India, Pakistan, Indonesia could all do with opening their eyes to this, and looking at the improvements to quality of life if they have the discipline to recognise the problem. Good post! O0

[Tpek]

Anyone actually knows what goes on with Shlomz.
I don't believe I've seen him post here more than once or twice.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

He had good posts at the old site. He should be here.