Pike & Shot

[ByzantineGames]

It doesn't specifically mention build points. As an old school miniatures player (1,500 point armies from Wargame Research Groups' army lists) THIS is what I want. Seriously..I was playing miniatures back in the mid '60's.

Yes the random map games have build points (if you choose not to have the computer decide your forces). Each army list has compulsory units and units that are selectable using points.

Most (but not all) of the historical scenarios also have some units selectable using points, but a much smaller proportion of the whole army.

The available points depends on the difficulty level selected.

[Bletchley_Geek]

On the other hand, browsing the image gallery, Image #3 picked up my attention, where we can see several Tercios firing at each other at what would look like somewhat implausible distances and with some dodgy line of fires (the Imperial Tercio with oblique facing seems to be firing across the other Tercio in front of it).

We are aware that the shooting ranges in the game are somewhat overgenerous. However, experience has shown that gamers do not like very short move distances, nor very short shooting ranges - however realistic they might be. In order to give the opportunity for several rounds of shooting against advancing enemy, the long musket shooting range needs to be equal to the mounted movement speed and double the normal infantry movement speed. To achieve this without reducing the infantry move to 1 square and cavalry to 2 squares, we have had to be generous with shooting ranges. Note, however, that shooting at long range is at half effect, so units will generally want to get closer to shoot effectively.

The LOS algorithm assumes that units in chequerboard have gaps between the units  through which shooting can occur.

Units cannot shoot at targets more than 45 degrees from straight ahead. At targets more than 22.5 degrees from straight ahead, they shoot at half effect, because not all of the front rank can bring their muskets to bear.

So, a unit shooting at long range at a target more than 22.5 degrees from straight ahead would shoot rather ineffectually at 1/4 effect.

Hi!

thank you very much for the answer. I understand very well the design decision there: the comment regarding "experience has shown that gamers do not like very short move distances" is spot on. Nevertheless, as some who grew up into war games playing Machiavelli and similar over snail mail and e-mail, I don't mind that particular thing so much. Armies of the time might look they move as frozen molasses  but when they hit you, they can hit like a tsunami :)

The thing that worried me about the shooting ranges is that of preserving the spirit of the epoch and what makes it special. Allowing Napoleonic Wars/American Civil War effective fire ranges will make it feel a bit like Napoleonic warfare with pikes. Which is colourful but not quite right. It is well documented that musketeers and arquebusiers were quite able to see their targets' expressions of horror quite clearly from a few yards away before getting their sorry heads blown up in a mix of gore and sulphur-scented smoke. A most curious period, where the Ancients' ways of war - phalanx-like formations made up of guys shoving at each other faces the pointy ends of very long poles - met the technological advances of the Renaissance.

I do understand that as a period it is a hard one to design a playable game about, it's a weird time, not quite like it had been before or after: maybe that's the reason it is such a rarely visited subject matter. And I do appreciate very much the courage of tackling it. Just, please, don't make the Swedes horribly ubermodeled ;)

[magnus]

How could the Swedes be uber?

Tercios rule.

Give me the Spanish Infanta anytime.

[Bletchley_Geek]

Give me the Spanish Infanta anytime.

You've a weird taste in women, but well, whatever rocks your boat man :)

[ByzantineGames]

Just, please, don't make the Swedes horribly ubermodeled ;)

The game gives Salvo a big advantage in the Impact phase of close combat. If the enemy don't drop Morale as a result, then they are back on equal terms in the continuing close combat.

In a shooting exchange, the salvo troops have a disadvantage compared with rolling fire.

Added to that, like a certain lager, the Swedish Salvo battalions are reassuringly expensive (in force points).

After Nordlingen (where only a few of the "Swedish" units are rated as Salvo capable anyway) the "Swedish" units revert to standard pike and musket tactics until later in the century, and are no better than anyone else's.  :o

I say "Swedish" because even amongst the proper "Swedish" units some were Scottish, and later on most of the army was German anyway.

[magnus]

 When am I going to learn not to post before coffee.

I meant the " Cardinal Infanta ".

[DennisS]

It doesn't specifically mention build points. As an old school miniatures player (1,500 point armies from Wargame Research Groups' army lists) THIS is what I want. Seriously..I was playing miniatures back in the mid '60's.

Yes the random map games have build points (if you choose not to have the computer decide your forces). Each army list has compulsory units and units that are selectable using points.

Most (but not all) of the historical scenarios also have some units selectable using points, but a much smaller proportion of the whole army.

The available points depends on the difficulty level selected.

I am quite close to popping a chubby for this game...        ;D

[Bletchley_Geek]

Just, please, don't make the Swedes horribly ubermodeled ;)

The game gives Salvo a big advantage in the Impact phase of close combat. If the enemy don't drop Morale as a result, then they are back on equal terms in the continuing close combat.

In a shooting exchange, the salvo troops have a disadvantage compared with rolling fire.

Added to that, like a certain lager, the Swedish Salvo battalions are reassuringly expensive (in force points).

After Nordlingen (where only a few of the "Swedish" units are rated as Salvo capable anyway) the "Swedish" units revert to standard pike and musket tactics until later in the century, and are no better than anyone else's.  :o

I say "Swedish" because even amongst the proper "Swedish" units some were Scottish, and later on most of the army was German anyway.

That was exactly what I wanted to hear :)

[Boggit]

When am I going to learn not to post before coffee.

I meant the " Cardinal Infanta ".

Your taste in women is kinkier than even Bletchley-Geek thought! :D ;)

[steve58]

Matrixgames/Slitherine is looking for Beta bunnies:  http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1478/Sign.of.for.the.Pike.and.Shot.Beta!

[Cyrano]

Last time I got this faint-y for a game was Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord.

Seriously.

Wow, wow, wow.

And now I begin my unreasonable demand for a strategic layer...particularly for the TYW and ECW.

I never thought I'd live to see a major-release game that got near the Hapsburg-Valois Wars.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)