The Uber Warhammer 40,000: Armageddon Thread!

[JudgeDredd]

Repeting a previous posts:

Here some more comments on that this is just PzC with a Warhammer 40,000 re-skin. Of course it share some similarities and is also a hex-base turn based game, but there are some big differences:

Armageddon has some high level similarities with Panzer Corps (in particular branching campaign and unit carry-over) and UI organization is similar too. However, battlefield tactics is indeed different. Here are just some things which drive combat in Armageddon, but which were not present (or played a very minor role) in Panzer Corps:

- most units have ranged attacks
- cover
- line of sight
- accuracy
- rate of fire
- several weapons per unit
- morale
- assaults
- units with multiple hit points, stacks of widely different size

Oh, and graphics engine has been rewritten from scratch too. New DirectX-based implementation gives some nice advantages, like smooth zooming in a very wide range. Also, the units have 6 orientations now, as opposed to 2 in Panzer Corps, and fire multiple weapons when attacking, so combat looks much better than in PzC.

The engine can also perfectly handle any animations, we had some very good reasons not to implement them at this stage or not implementing them at all. Who knows what the future brings though...

As this is just a first release of a whole game series, there is plenty we will upgrade, add and improve the coming weeks, months and years...

Thanks LZ

Unfortunately it's not my cup of tea - but good luck. It sounds like it's being received well (by people in this wee bubble at least).

[Martok]

So for those who are playing this, do you think you'd recommend it for someone who: 


1.)  Has never played the Panzer General/Corps games before?

2.)  Has only a surface familiarity with the 40k universe?

3.)  Is a strategy game nut?


My finger itches ever closer to pulling the trigger on getting this one, but I still hesitate. 

[Grimnirsson]

If you never played PC before it's a new experience then for you, so I suppose you might be happy with the game. Personally I love PC for what it is and have all the games here on my HDD but as a W40k fan I was simply expecting something more fresh than that.

[Grim.Reaper]

My only concern with picking up is that it seems a number of people are indicating a lack of information and detail being easily displayed to the player which makes it harder to understand the mechanics.  For someone like me who is not familiar with this subject, concerned might be hard to understand.  But generally speaking, seems like overall getting mostly positive feedback.

[jomni]

My only concern with picking up is that it seems a number of people are indicating a lack of information and detail being easily displayed to the player which makes it harder to understand the mechanics.  For someone like me who is not familiar with this subject, concerned might be hard to understand.  But generally speaking, seems like overall getting mostly positive feedback.

Yeah I'm not familiar with the 40k lore so I won't know which vehicles and weapons systems are actually better.  You get some stats but still different from world war 2 or modern where I have a basic sense of the capabilities of each unit.

[Grim.Reaper]

I saw this streaming video captured from Slitherine....if your interested in the game, not a bad view...the real action of the game starts around the 46 minute mark....

http://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup/b/593002015

[JasonPratt]

So for those who are playing this, do you think you'd recommend it for someone who: 


1.)  Has never played the Panzer General/Corps games before?

2.)  Has only a surface familiarity with the 40k universe?

3.)  Is a strategy game nut?


My finger itches ever closer to pulling the trigger on getting this one, but I still hesitate.

As someone who very much likes the game so far, I'm going to be brutally honest: there are much less expensive ways to try a PGish system and see if you like the basic concept.

I would say the biggest bang for the buck, aside from PG itself in some freeware download somewhere (Panzer General Forever? -- I can't recall if that comes with the game code itself or is installed over it), would be Fantasy Wars, since it's not only an advanced version of the engine and super-colorful with two meaty campaigns (plus a third epilogue campaign leading into the nine campaigns of Elven Legacy), but it's also on sale at Steam right now for less than $4. (And the EL collection doesn't cost much if any more. I rebought them both on Steam yesterday just on general principle. ;) )

Granted, that isn't WW2. But then neither is this game.

Come to think of it, some highly creative/insane people having been modding People's General, the final version of the original game system in the "5-Star Series", with all kinds of historical campaigns, which are sometimes announced here on the forum in a thread. PeepG may be dl'd free with that, don't know.

[JasonPratt]

My only concern with picking up is that it seems a number of people are indicating a lack of information and detail being easily displayed to the player which makes it harder to understand the mechanics.  For someone like me who is not familiar with this subject, concerned might be hard to understand.  But generally speaking, seems like overall getting mostly positive feedback.

Yeah I'm not familiar with the 40k lore so I won't know which vehicles and weapons systems are actually better.  You get some stats but still different from world war 2 or modern where I have a basic sense of the capabilities of each unit.

I have to admit this is true; they could do a LOT better giving players an idea what the weapon system capabilities are.

To be fair, that's usually true of most PGish games (including Panzer Corps), but usually it isn't a problem because the attack and defense systems are more abstracted anyway. Here the detail built into the game makes for a problem in understanding and using the detail.

Also, I noticed while finishing the first tutorial mission that I had no idea from the tutorial, and couldn't remember confirming it from the manual, whether "artillery" weapons in this game function like they usually do for PG engines, where they can shoot over intervening terrain, especially nearby friendlies, and most especially as a defensive reaction when nearby friendlies are attacked. I should have saved the game and tested that when I ran into a standard infantry-backed-with-arty situation, but I kept waiting to see if the tutorial would indicate it.

I will say if that's missing from the game, it's a big strike against the game: it's one of the key PG mechanics. But it may be there, I don't know.

If it's there, then this system offers a nice refinement by including multiple weapon systems on the same platform. So I had to choose between zooming up close to the arty to attack (having flanked it already with speedy light armor) exposing myself to return fire next turn from nearby infantry it was protecting but getting in "under" its minimum arty range and so only having to deal with its heavy bolter fire; or standing off out of infantry support range where its arty weapon could also shoot back at me. (Our weapon systems were both comparable to range, so I couldn't stand off completely and shoot with impunity, though that's a big factor in this particular game.)

[JasonPratt]

Okay, I just confirmed that counterfire support does exist, and more units have it than just obvious "arty" platforms: infantry heavy weapon teams for example.

Also, left-clicking on most stat figures will bring up an explanation/reminder of what that stat means. (I say "most" because there are still some missing texts, such as for health.)

[JasonPratt]

Here's a zoomed-in closeup of some jungle terrain near the outskirts of a base.



Notice that the major river continues under the foliage!

Here's the same shot not resized to 800x600.

[JasonPratt]

The tutorial, by the way, is an integral part of the game's storyline, and apparently (I haven't confirmed this yet) that includes being able to build up your initial core units the way you want -- which is a hugely important aspect of any PGish campaign.

So you can skip the tutuorial campaign if you want, but if you do you'll be missing out on being able to grow your first company from scratch. I haven't even started the 2nd tutorial mission yet (where I expect the enemy will shoot back unlike the first mission ;) ), because I'm busy doing one of my favorite PGish things: planning how best to spend my req points on upgrades and new units.

[Grim.Reaper]

Thanks for all the details....you are really making it hard for me to resist this game:)

Must step away from computer before I hit that purchase button....

[Grim.Reaper]

Didn't see this widely made known, but there was a day one patch for the game...guessing you can download directly from the game or from this link....

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/540/downloads/

[Zonso]

I saw this streaming video captured from Slitherine....if your interested in the game, not a bad view...the real action of the game starts around the 46 minute mark....

http://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup/b/593002015

Well after sitting on the sidelines for this one - wanting neither to get overly excited or disappointed - that gameplay video has pretty much nixed any further interest for me. I can completely see why someone would say this is simply PanzerCorps reskinned. No expert, but there appears to be none of the sophistication of the WH40K mechanics, in fact I get no sense of the tactical scale or movement/firing at all. The mechanics are straight PanzerCorps: move to first blob, Rock/Paper/Scissors, move to the next blob, Rock/Paper/Scissors rinse and repeat until the puzzle is finished. Perhaps I am wrong but would have to hear more from someone familiar with WH40K on how this actually plays.

[jomni]

I saw this streaming video captured from Slitherine....if your interested in the game, not a bad view...the real action of the game starts around the 46 minute mark....

http://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup/b/593002015

Well after sitting on the sidelines for this one - wanting neither to get overly excited or disappointed - that gameplay video has pretty much nixed any further interest for me. I can completely see why someone would say this is simply PanzerCorps reskinned. No expert, but there appears to be none of the sophistication of the WH40K mechanics, in fact I get no sense of the tactical scale or movement/firing at all. The mechanics are straight PanzerCorps: move to first blob, Rock/Paper/Scissors, move to the next blob, Rock/Paper/Scissors rinse and repeat until the puzzle is finished. Perhaps I am wrong but would have to hear more from someone familiar with WH40K on how this actually plays.

The scale is there and so is the tactics as mentioned earlier.  Range and LOS is implemented as well as varying weapons systems.  Rocks paper scissors will be more complicated because each platform can have different weapons systems.  Tanks is just not a tank, infantry is not just infantry.  They vary by the weapons modules that they carry.

You will only find out when you actually play the game (not just watch a video) and take time to look at the details.
Based on the tutorials, the downside is that you can actually play it like Panzer Corps and get away with it... the wonderful details won't be noticed.  ???