4X Game Discussion Thread

[Bison]

I'd say that my favorite genre of gaming is the 4X (EXplore, EXpand, EXploit, EXterminate) strategy game.  In general, they feed my various gaming whims quite well.  Historical, SciFi, or Fantasy moods can all be met by a 4X game.

My general criteria I like to have met in a 4X game:

1. Turned Based (Other than Sins of a Solar Empire, I don't enjoy real time 4X games.)
2. Map variety
3. Meaningful Resources
4. Faction variety
5. Distinct faction units and abilities/powers
6. Decent A.I.

I've been hooked on Illwinter and Amplitude designed games lately, but here's my short list of 4X games I really enjoy in no particular order.

Conquest of Elysium 3
Dominions 4
Endless Legend
Endless Space
Fallen Enchantress
Civilization V

No real point to the thread then hopefully a decent discussion of the pro/con of various 4X games.  And ultimately a future purchase or play through of a game based on the discussion.

[bayonetbrant]

Big thumbs up for Endless Legend from one of the guys here at the office.

I'm totally addicted to Civ 5 here :)

[sandman2575]

I love a lot of 4x games -- off the top of my head, Civ IV, Gal Civ II, Distant Worlds, the quirky but vastly underrated Sword of the Stars II -- but (as I've complained here before), I also feel increasingly frustrated by how conventional the genre has become.

I find it amazing (and distressing) that 4x still has not evolved beyond the original Civilization, which is now nearly 25 years old. Sid Meier is a genius, but it's well past time for some creative devs out there to move past the template Civilization provided.

So many stale conventions by now:  exploration with a beginning 'scout' unit that boils down to tedious 'fog of war' removal. Tech trees and tech rushing. Inert to nearly nonexistent diplomacy. Predictable population 'management' mechanics (unhappy? some rare spices will cheer you up!).  No real domestic politics. Budget balancing that boils down to 'what's the biggest fleet / army I can maintain?' 

Not to be a wet blanket here, Bison -- I'd just love to see something genuinely new here.

[jejo68]

Aurora with all its fault is still by far the best  :)

[bayonetbrant]

I am constantly underwhelmed with the diplomacy options of most 4x games. 

I think Civ 5 also did a better job with the BNW expansion of adding hte "cultural" influence on people, but I don't think the effects are as strong as they could be.

[Cyrano]

The various Civs and Master of Magic own a giant chunk of my life...one that shall be difficult to confess on the last day.

Special love of late, though, for Rise of Nations, which, though MP, is properly a 4X.  It's variable game speed settings and border-control mechanic make it a great game for LAN play here at Chez JK.  Very pleased to finally get it on Steam for a song in the slightly upgraded new version.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[Anguille]

4x is also my favorite genre. Can't do much with fantasy (though i would love a lord of the rings 4x). My first love goes to Science-fiction and two games come out for me: Master of Orion and Birth of the Federation. Master of Orion 2 has plenty of excellent additions but some aspects push it behind the first MOO for me: smaller maps, unbalanced (game is a lot faster), darker UI and map, artwork that i am not too fond of (compared to 1).

What is important to me.

- Not too much micromanagement, especially units (while i enjoy civ 3, moving units in endgame is not fun).
- Turn-based strategy map
- Separate battle map (one of my biggest grips about Civ games)
- Good Diplomacy (but i hate to be ripped of like in GalCiv and Civ)...i want real deals...not too good but not bad either.
- Good AI (i don't mind if the AI tears me apart but without cheating).

I would have liked to see a real competition of Civilization with these aspects, like a Total War/Knights of Honor/Lord of the Realms 2/Caeasar II: Civilization kinda of thing. Civ games by Firaxis are not "realistic" enough for me. I really enjoyed the first Call to Power and regret that they gave up because i like the concepts better.

The last two games that go in here are currentely Horizon and Armada 2526. The interesting aspect in the diplomacy in Horizon is that the deal's options change with the mood and the  deals already signed.

[BanzaiCat]

Some diplo options in BNW bug me, like Austria's being able to buy City-States outright (through their Diplomatic Option ability). Also that the Greeks, when operated by an AI, tend to squash City-States instead of gaining benefit from their increased relations with them. It all makes no sense when the AI handles it all.

[Bison]

I am constantly underwhelmed with the diplomacy options of most 4x games. 

I'm with you on this one.  Across the board diplomacy has never really been figured out by any 4X game very well.  Generally it's a choice of war or some sort of bribery prior to war.  Occasionally you get the trade resource/technology, but unfortunately this also tends to be a very exploitable mechanic and I almost never do trades in my games.

[sandman2575]

Diplomacy has never been done well, and I'd argue that Technology hasn't been done very well either. Again, it's past time to move beyond the "Tech Tree" model. I think this mechanic has long outlived its usefulness. It's gamey and unrealistic as a representation of how technology develops and spreads.

I *liked* the passive tech research of Distant Worlds in that game's original form. Apparently, lots of players couldn't handle the novelty and insisted on standard tech trees, and the devs duly complied. I wish Distant Worlds would translate it's incredibly cool 'autonomous private economy' idea to technology as well -- where tech research would not be 'state directed' but there could be independent firms working on different things that you have no control over.

Some other less conventional approaches I like -- Sword of the Stars, where tech trees unlocks are randomized, you can go overbudget on reserach that's not panning out, or you can have an early breakthrough, or (perish the thought!) your r&d program might actually fail to unlock the tech!  These are little changes, but they're a breath of fresh air from the usual "Now I'm researching lasers, and in 5 turns, I'll start in on some terra-forming, for balance" rigamarole.

Moving away from Space 4X -- I like how in Crusader Kings, technology passively and slowly spreads from region to region. No rushing trebuchets and heavily armored knights for you!

[BanzaiCat]

I like that approach - I'll have to check out Sword of the Stars.

And no, I've never played it, somehow.

[sandman2575]

I love SotSII.  The ship-design alone is worth the price of admission (and you can get the "Enhanced Edition" for very cheap, with all the sales).  There are things about it that are unquestionably clunky -- and talk about virtually nonexistent diplomacy, SotS has got that in spades. So, like Sins of a Solar Empire (another favorite of mine), it's much more ship warfare heavy than economics, politics, etc. But like I say, it does some neat things to shake up research.

[Bison]

I enjoy endless legends technology web.  You can research any advancement in the unlocked age or you can go back to previous age but you pay with an increased cost. Also there are faction specific technologies or bonuses related to similar technology share between the factions.

[RedArgo]

I started playing Endless Space the last few days and I've really enjoyed it.  I thought I would miss the tactical battles, but I haven't and the UI is great at displaying all the information you need.

[Yskonyn]

I really enjoy 4x games as well. My favorites are MoO2, Distant Worlds, Imperium Galactica 2 and Sword of the Stars 1 and 2 for Sci-Fi, while fantasy themed 4x favorites are Age of Wonders SW (not played 3 enough yet), Heroes of Might and Magic 3, Warlords 1 and 2 and Dominions (3 and 4).

And Civ 3, 4 and currently 5 are favorites in a general sense.

Some of these games might be regarded as being focussed on strategy more than true 4x, but yet I think they blur the line enough to warrant them as being mentioned as 4x games.

SotS 2 is a game I keep returning to, as are Distant Worlds, Civ and Dominions.




-oOo-