US and Cuba to Restore Full Diplomatic Relations

[GDS_Starfury]

have any of you ever seen Juan of the Dead?

[Bison]

The bigger issue that is ultimately going to bite us in the ass is the new soft power foreign policy that conducts negotiations with hostage takers be they state or non-state players.  Enjoy the cigar perhaps it'll make the decline less painful.

[Con]

Interesting timing

Double down on Sanctions on Russia
Approve military aid to Ukraine
and now right before Putin has to go and give a speech on how wonderful his foreign policy decisions are and how well they are working out
Cuba is split from its long time ally and moved from Russian sphere of influence into US

All in all it will make the average Russian wonder if life is as good as the propaganda machine is telling them it is

Con

[Bison]

Yeah because Cuba is the only influence Russia has in the Western Hemisphere. 

[Staggerwing]

Yeah because Cuba is the only influence Russia has in the Western Hemisphere. 

Since Venezuela is not exactly a Power Ascendent anymore, Argentina's economy is actually hoarding dollars right now, and Brazil is focused on becoming the economic Germany of South America, Russia is out in the cold over here. Also, when Cuba starts exporting cheap but well trained doctors into the US billions of healthcare dollars will become available for smacking around Russia's economy some more.

[Bison]

yeah, ok.

[LongBlade]

Man, the talking heads on Special Report were railing against this decision. Even Juan Williams, who normally is a go-to apologist for Obama, was highly critical.

Might it have been time to warm relations? Perhaps. (Though I think we were waiting for Fidel to keel over before making the overture.) But we should have done so in exchange for human rights reform, cessation of terror links...anything.

Maybe there's a national figure out there who supports this, but I haven't seen them yet.

[JasonPratt]

Plenty of other Western Civ nations have kept up diplomatic relations with Cuba all this time.

How much difference did they ever make? (Kind of a serious question: my impression is zilch, but maybe I'm wrong...?)

It's weird to see a move so blatantly "Twilight Struggle". What do Cubans get out of this? Nothing I can see, now or later. American people? Nothing; maybe less than nothing if labor export becomes an issue. Cuban leaders? ...some prayers from Pope Francis? Maybe?

Obama? "Look, I know my regime has been very much a fool's errand from beginning to end, and everything I've touched has turned to poot, but LOOK I'M BETTER THAN JFK, WOOOO! (Also, putting that card on Cuba at a time when Putin needs that influence card, score.)"

[GDS_Starfury]

partisan politics aside Ive been living on the front line of this topic most of my life.  I dont care what the reasons for the sudden move are, its a good thing.  elements of the government might suck ass but the people are as solid as can be.  it pains me to say it but if I have the choice of choosing between your typical red neck sub contractors and a family run Cuban bunch Im picking the Cubans.  the Tony Montana stigma is a very thin veneer played up by the media.

[BanzaiCat]

[Martok]

Wrong Martok.  They very much give a damn.

I agree.  What I said was that Obama probably doesn't give a damn what they (the Cuban-American community) thinks.  :P 

[endfire79]

How big is the Florida Cuban-American vote?  Big I guess.

The US was able to get things going again with Vietnam, and the news doesn't make much fuss about what old vietnamese ex-pats think. Many of them re-invested in Vietnam themselves.  The opportunity for growth in Vietnam has gone up, with China & US investment over the last 20 years.  Obviously there is a corrupt government, and there are unhappy folk.  But they aren't suffering as much as they did in the 1980's, so that's progress.  However I don't think Vietnam could isolate itself economically against either China or the US.  Same for Cuba (despite what the Castro family thinks). 

The other viewpoint is perhaps people see the US as not dealing from  a position of strength (i.e. not getting much in return from this decision, or getting the Cuban regime to actually do something in return for resumed relations)

[LongBlade]

Something good may come of this:

A thaw in relations between the U.S. and Cuba could help bring two cop killers and dozens of other fugitives granted asylum by the island nation to justice, law enforcement authorities hope.

The full implications of the diplomatic breakthrough announced Wednesday by President Obama are not yet known, but New Jersey State Police Superintendent Col. Rick Fuentes said he immediately thought of Joanne Chesimard, the Black Liberation Army militant who killed a state trooper in 1973 and later escaped prison and fled to Cuba. Chesimard, now 67, remains on the FBI's Most Wanted Terrorist List, as well as New Jersey's Most Wanted List.

"We view any changes in relations with Cuba as an opportunity to bring her back to the United States to finish her sentence," Fuentes said in a statement. "We stand by the reward money and hope that the total of $2 million will prompt fresh information in the light of this altered international relationship."

source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/18/law-enforcement-agencies-hopeful-to-bring-back-fugitives-exiled-in-cuba/

[OJsDad]

I'm not sure that this is good thing or not.  Watching a report on CNBC today, they were talking about some economic reforms that were made that allows some small private business.  It seems to have been a big success.  What I'm afraid is that Cuba may evolve into another China.  A central controlling government with a semi free market.

The one thing I don't like about this, is that Obama seems to have made this decision on his own with no consultations with Congress.  Especially with someone like Marco Rubio.  Obama has shown once again that he has no interest in working with anyone, but wishes to be like Fidel. 

[airboy]

Cuba is a brutal communist dictatorship.  The government attacks freedom of speech, religion, assembly etc.....
Cuba exported troops to distabalize many countries in South and Central America, and Africa through the fall of the USSR.  After the USSR fell and the massive subsidies from Moscow stopped, Cuba became financially unable to sustain their military adventures.  Their troops came home.

Today Cuba gets lots and lots of cheap oil from Venezuala, and not a lot of other foreign aid.  Their ability to cause the US or other democratic States a lot of trouble is minimal.

A bunch of you talk about the tourist trade.  In Cuba foreigners must spend hard currency when in vacation areas - all of which are owned by the Cuban government.  The Cuban workers who maintain and serve in the vacation areas are paid in next-to-worthless Cuban pesos.

It seems like Obama "negotiated" a pretty bad deal given how weak Cuba is currently.  But Obama's inability to negotiate a decent deal is obvious to anyone at this point excepting a strong partisan.  Where have any Obama negotiations worked well?  He cannot successfully negotiate anything in the USA outside of other liberal democrats (he has no major agreements in the Illinois legislature, as a US Senator, or as President).  The biggest deal he negotiated with the other party as President was extending most of the Bush tax cuts - and he famously pitched a fit about it and promised he would never do another agreement like it (a promise he has kept - i.e. no other major agreements with the other party).  His Mideast negotiations went nowhere.  Ditto Iran, Afganistan, Iraq, Europe, Russia........

The economic sanctions against Cuba originate in legislation.  Obama can't do anything about that except not enforce the law.  Oh, wait a minute, he has already done that on multiple other occasions!