Europa Universalis IV - Why can't I wrap my head around it?

[Grim.Reaper]

So just not limited to EU4, but in general to all Paradox games including CK2, and HOI3, etc.....

Pardon my frustration rant.....but based on the content and ideas of these games, these should be a perfect fit for me so I always purchase them right away...however, I never get too far with them since for some reason I have a huge mental block in grasping all of it and keeping control of things.  So here I am looking at EU4 again (I already own, but looking at expansions) and wondering if I continue to make the same mistake or somehow figure things out.  I have read countless AARs and watched many videos, but something just doesn't click with me or maybe I haven't found the right ones yet.

Not sure why I have such a difficult time but I think part of it is in how the game represents things in numbers versus maybe more obvious terms.  Everything seems represented by some numerical value or modifier and is presented to you.  The game certainly provides you all the information, but trying to make sense of it all seems difficult.  For example, it tells me I have an "8" for diplomatic power but I have no idea whether that is good or bad.  Why can't the game provide a more meaning description to the numbers so you can understand right away.  Instead of telling me I have an "8", why not say it is "Bad, Good, or Excellent"?  It tells me my production efficiency is 10%, is that good?  Could it be better?  I might be alone in this, but I think if they took some of the spreadsheet numbers out of the game (or at least made optional) and replaced with more meaningful descriptions, people like me might have a better idea how to play it.

If anybody has any tips or links to really good tutorials, please post them.  Maybe I am just not looking in the right places.

I really want to figure this game out but in the end maybe I am just not good enough or these really aren't the games for me after all....

[Micha]

The Problem is to understand this Kind of games you Need endless hours of study.
My advice Keep your fingers of of such games, they are timestealer.

[Pete Dero]

Let's play Crusader Kings 2 by Das24680 : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL71983E0A94A47DA0

Let's play Crusader Kings 2 Tutorial  by Aruma : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBBUYoAjpLxFkbgFw19CeA_

Europa Universalis tutorials and guides by Arumba : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBz8XAD77YTwMe6wx-Ql_Ao

[jomni]

For example, it tells me I have an "8" for diplomatic power but I have no idea whether that is good or bad.  Why can't the game provide a more meaning description to the numbers so you can understand right away.  Instead of telling me I have an "8", why not say it is "Bad, Good, or Excellent"?  It tells me my production efficiency is 10%, is that good?  Could it be better?  I might be alone in this, but I think if they took some of the spreadsheet numbers out of the game (or at least made optional) and replaced with more meaningful descriptions, people like me might have a better idea how to play it.

If anybody has any tips or links to really good tutorials, please post them.  Maybe I am just not looking in the right places.

I really want to figure this game out but in the end maybe I am just not good enough or these really aren't the games for me after all....

You need to know precisely how many diplomatic power you have because diplomatic actions has diplomatic costs.
I think ideal production efficiency should be 100%.  You should aim at improving it.
The beauty of the game are the numbers. All events in the game will lead to numbers increasing or decreasing. 
You will definitely know the consequences of your actions instead of no or vague feedback.

You learn by just messing around.  You will then eventually figure out the ins and outs of the game. Just check out the tool tips. Don't get discouraged.

[Grim.Reaper]

For example, it tells me I have an "8" for diplomatic power but I have no idea whether that is good or bad.  Why can't the game provide a more meaning description to the numbers so you can understand right away.  Instead of telling me I have an "8", why not say it is "Bad, Good, or Excellent"?  It tells me my production efficiency is 10%, is that good?  Could it be better?  I might be alone in this, but I think if they took some of the spreadsheet numbers out of the game (or at least made optional) and replaced with more meaningful descriptions, people like me might have a better idea how to play it.

If anybody has any tips or links to really good tutorials, please post them.  Maybe I am just not looking in the right places.

I really want to figure this game out but in the end maybe I am just not good enough or these really aren't the games for me after all....

You need to know precisely how many diplomatic power you have because diplomatic actions has diplomatic costs.
I think ideal production efficiency should be 100%.  You should aim at improving it.
The beauty of the game are the numbers. All events in the game will lead to numbers increasing or decreasing. 
You will definitely know the consequences of your actions instead of no or vague feedback.

You learn by just messing around.  You will then eventually figure out the ins and outs of the game. Just check out the tool tips. Don't get discouraged.

Those ratings were just two examples, it just seems like everything requires an interpretation of the numbers...and unless I am missing it, you have to look up on some wiki page or other source to really understand their impacts and meanings.  Although I might see numbers increasing and decreasing, it still gives me pause in trying to understand their meaning.  I know it will never happen, but maybe if they could combine the numbers with some kind of more descriptive meaning to correlate, maybe that would help better.

Again, likely just me since a ton of people play and enjoy the games...these games certainly have incredible options/depth, which I'll admit I don't always understand the terminology and references they make.

[Grim.Reaper]

Let's play Crusader Kings 2 by Das24680 : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL71983E0A94A47DA0

Let's play Crusader Kings 2 Tutorial  by Aruma : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBBUYoAjpLxFkbgFw19CeA_

Europa Universalis tutorials and guides by Arumba : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBz8XAD77YTwMe6wx-Ql_Ao

Thank you...I will check these out..

[Grim.Reaper]

The Problem is to understand this Kind of games you Need endless hours of study.
My advice Keep your fingers of of such games, they are timestealer.

That certainly might be my outcome if I can't figure things out:)

[bbmike]

One of my biggest problems with figuring out Paradox games was looking for instant results. I would see my budget in the red, adjust the sliders and expect immediate changes. I had to get used to the idea of running in the red monthly but at the end of the year get an overall gain. Same thing with the ideas and techs. My advice is to just start playing and not worry too much about doing bad. Pick one goal and stick to it (like balancing you budget or increase your military, etc.). Watch the tutorial videos and AARs and ask questions on the forums.

[Jarhead0331]

See here:  http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0

This issue has been contemplated by many a great philosopher for years now.

[Grim.Reaper]

See here:  http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0

This issue has been contemplated by many a great philosopher for years now.

Thanks for that, forgot about that one...even looks like I had my same comments back then:)  I'll review it again for a refresher...

[tgb]

One of my biggest problems with figuring out Paradox games was looking for instant results. I would see my budget in the red, adjust the sliders and expect immediate changes. I had to get used to the idea of running in the red monthly but at the end of the year get an overall gain. Same thing with the ideas and techs. My advice is to just start playing and not worry too much about doing bad. Pick one goal and stick to it (like balancing you budget or increase your military, etc.). Watch the tutorial videos and AARs and ask questions on the forums.

That's the part that I struggled with the most.  It took years of frustration before the lightbulb came on and I realized that Paradox games are a marathon, not a sprint.

[Cyrano]

FWIW, and perhaps it's my Napoleonic bent, I found "March of the Eagles" to be the most accessible since EUII (which I sort of forced myself to love years ago).  It drops a LOT of the economic extras in favor of a straight-up wargame that is a great deal of fun.

I will say, though, that, with these games, one must decide how deep down the system rabbit hole one wants to go.  In MotE, I discovered that having different troop types in specific categories conferred decided advantages in combat...which I discovered only after having my backside handed to me by one army or another and going on-line to figure out why.  This opacity has been diminished a bit in EUIV, but it continues nonetheless.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[Grim.Reaper]

One of my biggest problems with figuring out Paradox games was looking for instant results. I would see my budget in the red, adjust the sliders and expect immediate changes. I had to get used to the idea of running in the red monthly but at the end of the year get an overall gain. Same thing with the ideas and techs. My advice is to just start playing and not worry too much about doing bad. Pick one goal and stick to it (like balancing you budget or increase your military, etc.). Watch the tutorial videos and AARs and ask questions on the forums.

That's the part that I struggled with the most.  It took years of frustration before the lightbulb came on and I realized that Paradox games are a marathon, not a sprint.

That is a good point...I think part of the problem is the fact it is real-time so it can take some time for things to happen (I know you can speed it up).  And during that time, I always think I need to be doing something....maybe that is not the case and for periods of time I just need to let things unfold versus constantly doing stuff.

Has anyone tried to play and remain neutral and just do trading/diplomacy without war?  Is that even possible?  If it is possible, do you still find it entertaining?  Part of me would like a chance to really just build up my world without having to constantly fight wars.  Guessing at some point that might become boring....

[Bardolph]

Just starting to poke around with EU IV myself at the encouragement of some gaming buddies from an old clan I belonged to.
I did the tutorials but don't feel like I learned much. I did find this somewhat encouraging: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/116887
His advice is to just get stuck in and mess around with it, try things out to see what happens. Not my normal method but may be what it takes in this case lol.

I also ran across these which go into more detail and thereby caused my eyes to glaze over:
http://www.eu4wiki.com/Beginner%27s_guide
http://guides.gamepressure.com/europauniversalisiv/guide.asp?ID=21613

[tgb]

Has anyone tried to play and remain neutral and just do trading/diplomacy without war?  Is that even possible?  If it is possible, do you still find it entertaining?  Part of me would like a chance to really just build up my world without having to constantly fight wars.  Guessing at some point that might become boring....

That's usually my play style as I find it a lot more interesting than warfare.  My last game as Spain I absorbed/converted quite a bit of the New World without firing a shot.  Of course, there is always one or two tribes that won't listen to reason and have to be put to the sword, but I only did that as a last resort.