Best WWII Eastern Front PC Games - Sims, Tactics, Strategy

[MengJiao]

please dont read that Kursk book Gus.  just dont!

read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Kursk-Modern-War-Studies/dp/0700609784/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1423099800&sr=1-2&keywords=kursk

  Yes, try to read books by Glantz if possible.  He can't write very well (House seems to have helped him on this one, but I think House is dead these days), but he does try to get to the bottom of what happened.

  A more analytic and very well-written book is:

  http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/absolute-war-by-chris-bellamy-462704.html

[Sir Slash]

I thought there was a demo for Red Thunder but there isn't. They got one for everything else but RT even CMBB still. You can always come to Fla. and play my RT and see what you think. Just as long as you're not better at it than I am, which would be almost impossible not to be. There's also some good user made scenarios at the BF site.

[Sir Slash]

Correction. There is a demo for Red Thunder with 2 scenarios. It's not listed in the "Demos" section rather go directly to the Red Thunder page at BF and scroll down to you see it. Guess you won't have to come to Fla. after all.

[sandman2575]

Red Thunder is a can't lose proposition if you've got the Ostfront itch. Yeah, $55 ain't cheap, but it's a fantastic game -- better than Gravteam Tactics Op Star, and I say that as someone who loves GTOS.

[Barthheart]

Red Thunder is a can't lose proposition if you've got the Ostfront itch. Yeah, $55 ain't cheap, but it's a fantastic game -- better than Gravteam Tactics Op Star, and I say that as someone who loves GTOS.

Better in what ways? Not just the UI?

[sandman2575]

Again, not dissing GTOS because it's among my favorite games -- but I have to give the edge on a few key points to CMRT. Overall it's much more challenging.  Fun as GTOS is, it's a pretty forgiving game that's hard to lose. CMRT will punish you for shoddy tactics. Yes, that's party a function of highly scripted AI (and overall GTOS probably has more replayability than CMRT b/c of its more dynamic AI), but I played countless hours of Achtung Panzer: Kharkov and GTOS before moving to CMRT, and the difference in challenge seemed night and day to me.  Lots of bad habits I'd formed in GTOS were exposed in CMRT, and I had to start thinking a lot more carefully.

Biggest thing for me is the difference in how infantry is modeled. Infantry combat in GTOS is still kind of an afterthought. You don't have a lot of tactical flexibility with infantry -- it's really all about AFV's in GTOS. (and German infantry can't do squat on their own against Russian armor in GTOS.).  In CMRT, infantry tactics are crucial, and they're flexible enough that you can use them in all sorts of interesting ways that are simply not part of the picture in GTOS.

Biggest thing GTOS has over CMRT is its dynamic campaign -- which is huge, and miles ahead of what CMRT offers. 

In all, I wouldn't chose between the 2 games -- I need 'em both. But I find myself playing tons more CM these days than GTOS (partly burned out on GTOS, but partly frustrated by some of its limitations.)

[Barthheart]

Cool. Thanks.  O0

[TacticalWargames]

sandman..I agree. CMRT comes out on top for me because 1. WEGO and 2. Not in a position where two Tanks can wipe out all your German troops and you don't stand a chance. My major gripe with the series.

[JasonPratt]

I would recommend: http://www.amazon.com/The-Tigers-Burning-Martin-Caidin/dp/B000HZJSMO

Its not as rigorous as more modern books, but its entertaining.

Wait... Martin Caidin?

THE GUY WHO INVENTED THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN!!?  :o :o :o

[GDS_Starfury]

Stay away from Glantzs book on Leningrad though. Lots if info, vetty detailed and possibly the worst written book I've ever read.  I think its unique in that ita the only book I can think of that I never finished and didnt want to.

[GDS_Starfury]

Currently Im reading Decision in the Ukraine, another Stackpole book.

[bob48]

The Stackpole 'Kursk' book is ok as well.

[GDS_Starfury]

you'll get on any pole Bawb.

[Staggerwing]

I would recommend: http://www.amazon.com/The-Tigers-Burning-Martin-Caidin/dp/B000HZJSMO

Its not as rigorous as more modern books, but its entertaining.

Damn! Martin Caiden, author of Cyborg and Whip. The former book is the basis for the TV show Six Million Dollar Man and the latter a great fictional account of being a B-25 Heavy Gunship Variant pilot. Never knew he wrote a Zitadelle book.

[Toonces]

Red Orchestra 2 is fantastic.  I know you said you're not into MP, but if you get into a good match with decent players it is quite an experience.

I find the players in RO2 a bit more skilled and professional than in Rising Storm as well.  It can be fairly brutal.