Baltimore Riots

[bayonetbrant]

it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.

[OJsDad]

Thanks Brant.  I did not know what race each of the 6 are.  The thing is though, that the three black officers will be accused of being Uncle Tom's. 

[Steelgrave]

it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.

I think the relevant color here is "blue". There are folks who think police officers can do no wrong and folks who think they can do no right. The truth is always somewhere in between. There are reasons why we have constitutional protections and reasons why there are procedures to follow in an arrest. The "us" vs. "them" mentality is as prevalent within our police forces as it is in street gangs. Worse still is the "no snitching" credo which both sides adhere to in regards to their own. If there is any good to come from all this, perhaps it will be law enforcement being held more accountable for the power they weld. If they disregard the rights of the citizenry they interact with, if they confiscate or destroy the cameras filming them, if they beat handcuffed prisoners or let the back of their vehicles do the damage, the moral line between them and outlaw gangs becomes blurred, which is not to anyone's benefit, much less their own.

[Staggerwing]

Thanks Brant.  I did not know what race each of the 6 are.  The thing is though, that the three black officers will be accused of being Uncle Tom's. 

Or, in the case of one of them, an Aunt Jemima.

[GDS_Starfury]

Im just glad that obama has settled race relations so well.

[GDS_Starfury]

[airboy]

it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.

I think the relevant color here is "blue". There are folks who think police officers can do no wrong and folks who think they can do no right. The truth is always somewhere in between. There are reasons why we have constitutional protections and reasons why there are procedures to follow in an arrest. The "us" vs. "them" mentality is as prevalent within our police forces as it is in street gangs. Worse still is the "no snitching" credo which both sides adhere to in regards to their own. If there is any good to come from all this, perhaps it will be law enforcement being held more accountable for the power they weld. If they disregard the rights of the citizenry they interact with, if they confiscate or destroy the cameras filming them, if they beat handcuffed prisoners or let the back of their vehicles do the damage, the moral line between them and outlaw gangs becomes blurred, which is not to anyone's benefit, much less their own.

All true, but ignoring the Grand Jury process, having a minimal review of evidence, and no interviews of witnesses while bringing charges in record time (the incident occurred on April 12 - so the indictment came in 18 days) does not give me much faith that the Prosecutor knows what they are doing.  I hope she does, because I'm certain the police officers will have competent legal council.  I'm naturally pessimistic - but this situation seems like a train wreck.

But again, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said about police accountability or prosecuting police misconduct.  As the ancient romans said, who guards the guardians?  From Wikipedia: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? is a Latin phrase found in the work of the Roman poet Juvenal from his Satires (Satire VI, lines 347–8). It is literally translated as "Who will guard the guards themselves?", though is also known by variant translations.

The original context deals with the problem of ensuring marital fidelity, though it is now commonly used more generally to refer to the problem of controlling the actions of persons in positions of power, an issue discussed by Plato in The Republic. It is not clear whether the phrase was written by Juvenal, or whether the passage in which it appears was interpolated into his works.

[Nefaro]

LOL  ;D

[Swatter]

Its a no-win situation if I've ever seen one.

In Ferguson, the prosecutor went exceptionally slow, methodically reviewing the evidence. Result = rioting.  In Baltimore we have a quick evaluation of evidence and the immediate filing of charges. While this might result in less rioting in the short term, the rioting will be more intense later on if the defendants are not convicted on the serious charges.

I think the only lesson you can take from this is that you can't appease rioters.

[Steelgrave]

it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.

I think the relevant color here is "blue". There are folks who think police officers can do no wrong and folks who think they can do no right. The truth is always somewhere in between. There are reasons why we have constitutional protections and reasons why there are procedures to follow in an arrest. The "us" vs. "them" mentality is as prevalent within our police forces as it is in street gangs. Worse still is the "no snitching" credo which both sides adhere to in regards to their own. If there is any good to come from all this, perhaps it will be law enforcement being held more accountable for the power they weld. If they disregard the rights of the citizenry they interact with, if they confiscate or destroy the cameras filming them, if they beat handcuffed prisoners or let the back of their vehicles do the damage, the moral line between them and outlaw gangs becomes blurred, which is not to anyone's benefit, much less their own.

All true, but ignoring the Grand Jury process, having a minimal review of evidence, and no interviews of witnesses while bringing charges in record time (the incident occurred on April 12 - so the indictment came in 18 days) does not give me much faith that the Prosecutor knows what they are doing.  I hope she does, because I'm certain the police officers will have competent legal council.  I'm naturally pessimistic - but this situation seems like a train wreck.

I completely agree. My comments are more directed towards the incidents of police misbehavior and civil unrest we are seeing overall rather than just the Baltimore situation. I'm shocked to see charges filed already and more than a little uneasy with a murder indictment against one of the officers. I agree it's a no-win situation....if we think the riots are bad now, wait until juries start passing out "not guilty" verdicts on the major charges. I believe a crime(s) occurred here, but a rush to justice serves no one...not the victim, not the officers and not the community.

[Gusington]

That meme with Anderson Cooper is priceless. I watched him interview the kid and the mom and it was a lot less awkward than I would have believed.

[LongBlade]

Alan Dershowitz has weighed in and support's Airboy's reading:

"There's no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder under the facts as we now know them," Dershowitz said.

"You might say that conceivably there's a case for manslaughter. Plainly nobody wanted this guy to die. Nobody set out to kill him. Nobody intentionally murdered him."

Four officers, including Goodson Jr., face involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault charges.

source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/02/alan-dershowitz-lays-into-freddie-gray-prosecutor-this-is-a-show-trial-video/

[Steelgrave]

Alan Dershowitz has weighed in and support's Airboy's reading:

"There's no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder under the facts as we now know them," Dershowitz said.

"You might say that conceivably there's a case for manslaughter. Plainly nobody wanted this guy to die. Nobody set out to kill him. Nobody intentionally murdered him."

Four officers, including Goodson Jr., face involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault charges.

source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/02/alan-dershowitz-lays-into-freddie-gray-prosecutor-this-is-a-show-trial-video/

The murder charge reeks of being political. I noticed they also charged the same officer with manslaughter as a fail-safe. I expect the murder charge to be dropped as the case proceeds. I do think there is a legitimate shot at convictions for the officers charged with manslaughter. Between failure to secure him as required by their own regulations and the joy ride that may have taken place bouncing him off walls, reckless indifference seems a factor to me.

[Gusington]

No matter what these officers are screwed and their careers are over.

[Boggit]

it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.

I think the relevant color here is "blue". There are folks who think police officers can do no wrong and folks who think they can do no right. The truth is always somewhere in between. There are reasons why we have constitutional protections and reasons why there are procedures to follow in an arrest. The "us" vs. "them" mentality is as prevalent within our police forces as it is in street gangs. Worse still is the "no snitching" credo which both sides adhere to in regards to their own. If there is any good to come from all this, perhaps it will be law enforcement being held more accountable for the power they weld. If they disregard the rights of the citizenry they interact with, if they confiscate or destroy the cameras filming them, if they beat handcuffed prisoners or let the back of their vehicles do the damage, the moral line between them and outlaw gangs becomes blurred, which is not to anyone's benefit, much less their own.

All true, but ignoring the Grand Jury process, having a minimal review of evidence, and no interviews of witnesses while bringing charges in record time (the incident occurred on April 12 - so the indictment came in 18 days) does not give me much faith that the Prosecutor knows what they are doing.  I hope she does, because I'm certain the police officers will have competent legal council.  I'm naturally pessimistic - but this situation seems like a train wreck.

I completely agree. My comments are more directed towards the incidents of police misbehavior and civil unrest we are seeing overall rather than just the Baltimore situation. I'm shocked to see charges filed already and more than a little uneasy with a murder indictment against one of the officers. I agree it's a no-win situation....if we think the riots are bad now, wait until juries start passing out "not guilty" verdicts on the major charges. I believe a crime(s) occurred here, but a rush to justice serves no one...not the victim, not the officers and not the community.

+1 Steelie, you are very much the voice of reason. If juries - having heard the evidence, make findings of not guilty, and you have a flare of riots, then is the situation no more than lynch mob 'justice'?