DVG's Tiger Leader

[Barthheart]

I wouldn't expect a rules rewrite to be released for months, from my limited experience of such things.

That's just it.. it's not supposed to be a re-write just fixing what's broke.  >:(

[GJK]

Well we'll just keep with our little OT chatter while you're working that all out BC.  ;)

[BanzaiCat]

Ha. Yeah...

I'd hoped they'd have posted something by this point...something I might incorporate into the reboot book I did.

When you see the BGG thread, there's really not that many rules points, so either they're playtesting the hell out of them or there's a lot more under the hood they've not mentioned yet.

[Nefaro]

Fixing stuff?  I dunno.  I don't even own Tiger Leader right now.

I thought they were going to redo the rules in order to add more detailed armored interactions.  Such as limiting infantry effectiveness against tanks & such?  *shrug*


I recall the rules revision for Picket Duty taking around five or six months, and that was just adding more clarifications.  While that may have taken that long due to scheduling more than anything, I'd imagine DVG would want to do some testing of any changes they make, and adjust-repeat from there.

[BanzaiCat]

Looks like yesterday, on BGG, there was a release of updated rules and game pieces for Tiger Leader:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1419831/dvg-official-beta-v11-updated-rulescomponents-pack

There's a few PDFs:

- A Tiger Leader Update Kit, with two pages of rule updates/info, four pages of updated counters, and nine pages of German unit cards.
- A replacement card for the missing 023 STUG III.
- Two more German unit cards, AT teams 961 and 962.
- A diagram for AP and HE attack ratings: http://www.navalwarfare.net/files/TigerLeader/TLAPHEdiagram.jpg

I've reached out to Kevin at DVG to inquire as to when printed components will be available, though I bet it will be a long while before that happens (having to go to the printer, get proofed, mass-produced, then mailed out, which all takes a lot of time). They had previously said they'd send me a copy of Thunderbolt/Apache Leader, the newer version, so I could do a review and comparison with the old system, but that was a while ago and Kevin has not responded to my inquiries about that. I imagine they're getting their butts kicked trying to get this all done, but still, hopefully I hear from him soon.

That all said, there's no way I'm going to print out counters and/or cards at my expense to try to play this newer, updated system, for review or AAR purposes. I wouldn't imagine someone that shelled out $100 for this game would want to do that either. It's great that they provided everything, though, just in case there are those out there that want to do this. Of course, not everyone is going to mind going to Kinko's or whatever to print them out, and just might be happy to do so.

I will give this game coverage for GH once DVG gets this game finalized and the necessary components out. I REALLY REALLY want to do this. I like this game but I'm not doing a review of the 'old' version of it, nor an AAR, because this game in the future is going to be based on the changes they're making now. If someone in the near future is seeking info on the game and finds a review on the older version here, it's going to obviously give erroneous information. Better to wait and see what the final, polished version is.

In any case, those of you with Tiger Leader might want to check out the above link(s) and see what you think.

[Barthheart]

Yeah I've looked at the "changes" which only really deal with the tactical combat aspects of the game. I think there is still the problem with the enemy units rushing at your forces. This has not been addressed at all.

I haven't had a chance to play the new rules yet as Wing Leader is taking al my time a table space, but I will likely give it a spin soon. Making my own counters is not a big deal... print on sheet sized sticky labels, stick to matte board and cut out. Should take about an hour as there's not many to make... only new enemy units to try the new rules. The cards for the Germans can just be printed as a sheet and referenced from there.

I'm still feeling pretty burned by all this and will not likely support any further games in the series......  >:(

[BanzaiCat]

The details said they'd have a full print for the updated stuff done for the next Tank Leader game (Sherman Leader) and available through the site as well. Not sure if they're going to charge shipping if you just want to grab them from the site.

I can appreciate your industriousness, Barth. Where do you get your matte board? And if you print on sticky sheets...are you talking about labels? If it's not that big a deal I might do it myself too, but I want to be sure I get the right materials and not screw it up and make it worse for myself.

[Barthheart]

They say that the update printed kits will be available separate from the DVG site when they are ready. The kit is to be free but you need to pay shipping....which to here with the exchange will be about $50.... 

I get matte board from Michael's craft stores up here. Any place the does framing should be able to sell you some. I like it because it comes in different thicknesses. I use 2mm thick, makes nice counters. you can use "chip" board too, but it's thinner and harder to find up here. Or the cardboard of the back of a pad of paper... if anyone uses those anymore.

I print using my inkjet onto Avery full sheet labels. Peel and stick label to matte board and then cut the counters out using a rotatory cutter and a steel ruler.

[Cyrano]

Vance...Vance...we have had beer together...that's a sacred thing...but doood (three o's) who is so deserving of your love and affection that they can first hit you for near $100 (more?) and then demand you create the kit that fixes what they released broken?

Now, I think I'm OK with the "errata in exchange for shipping"...that sounds industry standard to me...but making me get all DIY?

No, no, no...

[Barthheart]

Look, go back to drinking yer Jack and Peach Schnapps and playing with yer tiny tin soldiers.

I'm only making the DIY stuff so I can try to play the game I paid >$90 for. I'm not hopeful it will work yet.

I'll be old and have forgotten about TL by the time they want to charge me $50 to send me my free fixit kit....

[Cyrano]

Don't try to change the subject you deep-fried-poutine-eating, Pavolovian victim of DVG...

[Nefaro]

Kinda glad I had a feeling about Tiger Leader and didn't pre-order. 

Hell, I still have plenty of playtime left in Thunderbolt Apache Leader.  Running German armored offensives in WW2 isn't high on my favorite theme list anyway.

[PanzersEast]

I am a fan of DVG, however this is a pretty big misstep to a already good franchise line..... I just finished a game of Nimitz last week and for what it is I like it, but I so far have only played TL once.  I will wait to print everything out after it has gone from Beta and see, but the game in itself is not bad and these latest updates could help it turn the corner... (re-write the manual)  I may hesitate on further pre-orders, but DVG always makes good on their products one  way or another....


PE

[Grimnirsson]

I dunno, DVG always had high quality games but this Kickstarter thing is apparently lowering quality... :-[

[PanzersEast]

I dunno, DVG always had high quality games but this Kickstarter thing is apparently lowering quality... :-[

The quality of the components are good, however they really need some more play testers and quality control on the manual.  I think some added play testing and getting someone else to organize and write the manual would have saved this fiasco.  Also, double checking the components would have yielded the missing card.  I think all can be fixed, however will need to be done by their next game or it will became a little thin on the supporters.


PE