Just Evil

[Staggerwing]

Welcome to the family!

[Boggit]

Welcome to the family!

I'm in good company.

[Uberhaus]

I am not implying that people with Asperger's are homicidal, this is being inferred.  I was suggesting that Adam Lanza may have a form of autism, as appears in his facial features; as to other diagnosis, I can't and won't guess at anything. 

I guess this makes me as guilty as a phrenologist, so I will withdraw my assertation and apologize unreservedly.

But Boggit, when you say:

with people who are paranoid, or schizophrenic, and perhaps - at a stretch - bi-polar, but not really for ASD, which is nowhere near the same condition as the aforementioned actual mental disorders

Are you not just as guilty of the prejudice I now ashamedly admit to being guilty of?  The 'aforementioned' are also not the violent, but the bullied.  Also, non-mild autism can be even more debilitating than mental illness, but let us not try and rationalize what is better and worse.

The WHO reports that one in four people will have a mental disorder at some stage in their life.  Who can say who has what? Clearly not me.  Sorry, I will not repeat this.  In my defence, I will state that with my encounters with autistics amongst others, I have been kind, caring and accommodating.

[Boggit]

I am not implying that people with Asperger's are homicidal, this is being inferred.  I was suggesting that Adam Lanza may have a form of autism, as appears in his facial features; as to other diagnosis, I can't and won't guess at anything. 

I guess this makes me as guilty as a phrenologist, so I will withdraw my assertation and apologize unreservedly.

I don't see how you can seriously argue phrenology. It was debunked as pseudo science years ago.
http://www.historyofphrenology.org.uk/overview.htm#whathappened

That isn't exactly what you saying earlier... see below:

I am clearly not stating that all people with autistic spectrum disorders are murderers, the possibility does exist that they can be. To support my statement regarding murders committed by people with Asperger's, Anders Breivik killed 77 people in Norway in 2011 and was diagnosed with Asperger's, Tourette's and narcissistic PD.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156530/Anders-Behring-Breivik-rare-forms-Aspergers-Tourette-s-syndromes-says-Norways-leading-psychiatrist.html
Adam Lanza, diagnosed with Asperger's killed 20 children and seven adults, in Connecticut in 2012.

While my previous statement might have read as only prejudice, I was contemplating other possibilities.  It must be considered that people with autism or other mental disorders can act violently and in some cases extremely violently.

I wish you would make up your mind. In your first sentence you start off by saying that not all people on the autistic spectrum are murderers, then say that the possibility remains that they are...??? You then go on to justify this contradictory statement using the Breivik case.

But Boggit, when you say:

with people who are paranoid, or schizophrenic, and perhaps - at a stretch - bi-polar, but not really for ASD, which is nowhere near the same condition as the aforementioned actual mental disorders

Are you not just as guilty of the prejudice I now ashamedly admit to being guilty of?  The 'aforementioned' are also not the violent, but the bullied.  Also, non-mild autism can be even more debilitating than mental illness, but let us not try and rationalize what is better and worse.

I don't think I was being particularly prejudicial as I wasn't stating anything else other than fact, underpinned by numerous medical and criminal studies. There is an established association between violence and psychotic illness/disorders like schizophrenia, something not shared by people on the autistic spectrum as they do not usually display psychotic behaviour:
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/180/6/490
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19457644
http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/4/702.full
http://www.mind.org.uk/media/998781/Violence-and-mental-health-Mind-factsheet-2014.pdf
http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/consequences/1000-homicides.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fighting-fear/201401/the-relationship-between-violence-and-psychotic-disorders
http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/2/152.long

The evidence indicates that not everyone with a psychotic illness is predisposed to violent behaviour. However, it does suggest a greater predisposition within the psychotic population towards violence, compared to the non-psychotic population (which includes someone on the autistic spectrum). The incidence of violence by people with psychotic illness statistically tends to be greater particularly towards family/carers, and especially where they fail to follow their treatment regime, or are involved in substance abuse, which exacerbates the problem. Simply having a psychotic illness is a risk factor, but risk increases with the sort of factors I've just mentioned. I'd add that the majority of murders are committed by people free of mental illness, although some studies indicate that up to 10% of murders are down to people suffering psychotic episodes (which is significant as the proportion of people in the population suffering psychosis is relatively small). Also there is a correlation between suicide and psychotic illness, so violence can end up as self harm too.

The WHO reports that one in four people will have a mental disorder at some stage in their life.  Who can say who has what? Clearly not me.  Sorry, I will not repeat this.  In my defence, I will state that with my encounters with autistics amongst others, I have been kind, caring and accommodating.

Mental illness is common and a very broad category of illness. Clinical depression makes up a large part of it. Psychotic illness is a relatively small subset of the totality of mental illness. (BTW autism is not a mental illness nor personality disorder, it is a complex developmental condition. On a lighter note, Sheldon in the Big Bang Theory TV show displays a lot of autistic characteristics, none of which are particularly psychopathic).

I'm sure you are kindness personified in your dealings with others. O:-)   ;)

[Uberhaus]

Boggit, I am clearly not arguing phrenology.  I know it is pseudo science.  How could you take the phrase "guilty as a phrenologist" as support for it?  I am clearly showing it in a negative light.  However, the science of autistics exhibiting certain facial features has not been debunked.

I also clearly state that the possibility exists that some people and not everyone with Asperger's can be extremely violent.  "I am clearly not stating that all people with ASD are murderers, the possibility does exist that they can be."  Some not all, that is not contradictory at all.  If I had said "the possibility does exist that they all can be", I would be clearly wrong.  But, I did not say that.

Your argument that untreated psychosis leads to violence is supported, however how can you state that

There is an established association between violence and psychotic illness/disorders like schizophrenia, something not shared by people on the autistic spectrum as they do not usually display psychotic behaviour

Violence exists in autism, it is documented anecdotally and scientifically.
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/147/5/566  Violence and Asperger's A Case Study
http://www.autism.com/treating_self-injurious  The title is Controlling Assault/Self Injury
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20121218/aspergers-violence

If we look at this objectively, just like how a small number of schizophrenics will be violent, their is a risk that autistics will also be.  One percent of the population are psycopaths (0.2 to 3.3% according to DSM-V http://www.theravive.com/therapedia/Antisocial-Personality-Disorder-DSM--5-301.7-(F60.2) )  Clearly, not all are serial killers or mass murderers, and you are relatively safe around them, physically at least.  However, should we not be concerned about the few that are?  That is what I interpret your logic as when you dismiss the assertion that some autistics can be violent.

In regards to

(BTW autism is not a mental illness nor personality disorder, it is a complex developmental condition

It isn't just developmental, there are also brain abnormalities in autism at the cellular level, like there are abnormalities in mental illnesses at the structural level. 

As to

I'm sure you are kindness personified in your dealings with others. O:-)   ;)

Thank you, I am.  I am confident that you are as well.

I will not apologise again, I am not insulting anyone by saying that some autistics are violent and I am supporting it with fact.    All I regret now is the diversion of discussion away from the heinous murder of nine human beings for being black.

[Boggit]

Hey, we're cool! ;D O0

[airboy]

Regretfully it has been reported in the US press that the shooter should not have been able to legally purchase a firearm.  Clerical mistakes at the local police level allowed him to buy the gun.

This was not a failure of the law, but the implementation of the law.

[steve58]

Atlanta NAACP chapter calls for removal of Stone Mountain sculptures

While the "news" media/Left ramp up their attacks on the symbols of the Confederacy, do they even remember that 9 innocent people were murdered, not by the CSA, but by a racist idiot?

[JasonPratt]

^^ Only if it serves their purposes.

[mirth]

Verdict expected soon in the Colorado theater shooting trial

http://news.yahoo.com/verdict-colorado-movie-theater-shooting-trial-gunman-james-holmes-192828613.html

[steve58]

...and the sentence is Death.  Can't happen soon enough. 

[mirth]

...and the sentence is Death.  Can't happen soon enough. 

Good riddance.

[Gusington]

^+100. Roof is the lowest of the low.

[OJsDad]

2017 is starting off as a good year.

[Sir Slash]

And I bet he had the nerve to look surprised at the verdict.  L:-)