Combat Air Patrol 2

[Yskonyn]

I don't think anyone would regard the Harrier highly because of the points you mention.
It's an icon of engineering more than anything else and that is why people love it.

[jomni]

Yup people are trying to replicate with the F-35 and it has the same limitations. Too much engineering in the V/STOL engine and compromise on other capabilities. :D

[Jarhead0331]

You guys are all underestimating one key factor of the harrier's effectiveness and lethality...there is a Marine in the cockpit.

[JudgeDredd]

Seriously people? Short memories.

It was hugely important given NATO imagined their airfields being totalled. This was the only aircraft that could sit in a clearing and take off.

It also performed pretty well against a superior air force in the Falklands conflict.

It's not an Hawg or a Super Hornet - but it had it's place and I think it still has for supporting rapid assault.

It is dated now though and must surely be nearing the end of it's life.

[Toonces]

Well, since we're all just BS'ing, I have to say that the harrier in and of itself does nothing for me.  It's an ugly jet with limited capabilities.  Sure, it has its place in an OOB, but to use it has the cornerstone of a simulation is...to me, questionable.  The dynamic campaign is really the only part of this sim (CAP 2) that interests me.

If it were me developing this sim, and nobody asked, but my opinion, I may have gone with something more cold war.  Imagine the naval aspect of this dynamic campaign but with a cold war jet like the F-4, which has never been featured alone in a sim to my knowledge.  My gut would say to go with something multirole.  And, since we're just speculating, why not an F/A-18?  Other than Janes, the F/A-18 still hasn't been done properly, and certainly not in a dynamic campaign sim.

Anyway, I guess we'll see how things turn out.  Like I've said a couple of times, if the campaign is decent then I'll buy. 

[JudgeDredd]

Harrier is multi-role - and good at it.

It is certainly limited in quantity of ordinance.

Ugly - how very dare you   :'(

[RyanE]

The AV-8B has almost the same lifting capability of the F/A-18C and a longer range.  It has about 75% of the F/A-18E and about the same range.  It doesn't have the raw speed of the Hornet, but could probably out fly the Hornet in WVA engagement.  Where it lacks is long-range BVR.  The Hornet's radar looks to be a better fighter there.

The short of it is that its a very good multi-role plane that go a lot of places a Hornet, or any other jet, can't go.

[mirth]

Ugly - how very dare you   :'(

Don't listen to Toonces, JD. He's brain hasn't thawed yet from the harsh New England winter.

[Yskonyn]

Seriously people? Short memories.

:) Not at all.
It was just being stated that its range is limited (especially without drop tanks) and its quantity of weapons is limited as well.
Those are simple facts, no?

The Harrier II's radar is similar to that of the F/A-18.

[Skoop]

I highly doubt this will have a good dynamic campaign.  People have been chasing the unicorn of dynamic campaigns ever since falcon and it took a 30 man team that ran over budget and broke the dev studio for good.  Looking at the track record of the cap2 devs, no way they pull off a great dynamic campaign.  Just because someone calls something dynamic or open world doesn't mean it will be great.  I've seen some aweful dynamic campaigns that were just repetitive and you quickly loose interest.  If a dev isn't going make it like a living conflict like falcon4 I'd rather just have really detailed immersive linear missions.

[Jarhead0331]

I highly doubt this will have a good dynamic campaign.  People have been chasing the unicorn of dynamic campaigns ever since falcon and it took a 30 man team that ran over budget and broke the dev studio for good.  Looking at the track record of the cap2 devs, no way they pull off a great dynamic campaign.  Just because someone calls something dynamic or open world doesn't mean it will be great.  I've seen some aweful dynamic campaigns that were just repetitive and you quickly loose interest.  If a dev isn't going make it like a living conflict like falcon4 I'd rather just have really detailed immersive linear missions.

This post makes me want to slit my wrists.

[Toonces]

I agree with Skoop, at least up until the linear mission campaign part.  I don't have confidence this dynamic campaign is going to scratch my itch, hence my reluctance to buy in at this point.

I hope it's awesome, but I'm also managing my expectations. 

And you guys are friggin' crazy if you think a Harrier is comparable on any level to a Hornet.

[RyanE]

Has anyone produced this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, known as a dynamic campaign (other than F4) ?  Are flight simmers breaking the industry in pursuit of it.?

[RyanE]

Seriously people? Short memories.

:) Not at all.
It was just being stated that its range is limited (especially without drop tanks) and its quantity of weapons is limited as well.
Those are simple facts, no?

The Harrier II's radar is similar to that of the F/A-18.

I'll point out again, the AV-8B had a longer range and about the same load capability as the F/A-18C.  Its load carrying was only 20-25% less than the F/A-18E.  I fail to see the issue with the Harrier (II).

Oh, and the AV-8B has the APG-65, F/A-18C has the APG-73, and the F/A-18E has the APG-79...60, 90, and 120 mile ranges respectively.

[JudgeDredd]

Seriously people? Short memories.

:) Not at all.
It was just being stated that its range is limited (especially without drop tanks) and its quantity of weapons is limited as well.
Those are simple facts, no?

The Harrier II's radar is similar to that of the F/A-18.

I agree with Skoop, at least up until the linear mission campaign part.  I don't have confidence this dynamic campaign is going to scratch my itch, hence my reluctance to buy in at this point.

I hope it's awesome, but I'm also managing my expectations. 

And you guys are friggin' crazy if you think a Harrier is comparable on any level to a Hornet.

I don't know...I haven't looked up the specs and so I wasn't saying that. What I was saying is that it is still a capable multi-role aircraft given a specific role - and again, I'm thinking from a ship like HMS Bulwark or your very own USS Wasp for example - supporting a quick ground offensive by sea.

We can disagree on that if you wish - and I'll let the ugly comment slide