Women and wargaming

[Crazy Girl]

I'll nominate this for the 2016 Grogheads Drama Queen of the Year Award.

No, it's definitely the other thread where the guy almost bit off the other guy's head for bashing a game he's never played or even reviewed.
That was pure gold. That's the one I would nominate.

Well my point is; if playing with the boys is unpleasant and you happen to be playing with the girls because of such, do you ever play wargames?  If not, why not?  Does the subject matter not interest you or do you have a preference for other types of games?

I don't buy the argument that "men are pigs/sexist/unpleasant towards women" and thus that's the reason why women aren't playing wargames in great numbers.  Sure, there's many exceptions in both cases but I'll stand by my original point - the overwhelming majority of women just don't care to game a game covering the Stalingrad campaign or WWI trench warfare (as examples) on any sort of regular basis.

I agree with you. I believe we are chasing our own tails. Saying the same thing, but in different ways.
It's not unpleasant playing with the guys, but most have been playing for so long that someone like me would "hold them back."
Most women are not interested, mainly because they have never been exposed. Common knowledge. So no wargames there.
Take all the females interested in general gaming, small number.... even smaller for wargaming. 1 is the loneliest number.
And no, not all "men are pigs/sexist/unpleasant towards women", but if you run into that one guy, you either deal with it or go away.
Personally, I'm more of the, "I'm out of here, this guy ruined my mood." I just end up doing something else.
I know some people will say, play a solitaire game. But like I said, I'm a social creature.

Welcome, Crazy Girl! It sounds like you will add a lot (good) to the place.

Nope. I'm pure evil.  >:D

[Ubercat]

Mom! Dad! It's evil! Don't touch it!

[Arctic Blast]

Sorry, but when people respond with "tl:dr" it makes me feel like they are either too lazy or a bit slow.  :)

I'm both, so you're batting 100 so far.

I think you mean 'batting 1000'. Batting 100 is pretty damn awful.  ;)

[GJK]

Well my point is; if playing with the boys is unpleasant and you happen to be playing with the girls because of such, do you ever play wargames?  If not, why not?  Does the subject matter not interest you or do you have a preference for other types of games?


I don't buy the argument that "men are pigs/sexist/unpleasant towards women" and thus that's the reason why women aren't playing wargames in great numbers.  Sure, there's many exceptions in both cases but I'll stand by my original point - the overwhelming majority of women just don't care to game a game covering the Stalingrad campaign or WWI trench warfare (as examples) on any sort of regular basis.

I agree with you. I believe we are chasing our own tails. Saying the same thing, but in different ways.
It's not unpleasant playing with the guys, but most have been playing for so long that someone like me would "hold them back."
Most women are not interested, mainly because they have never been exposed. Common knowledge. So no wargames there.
Take all the females interested in general gaming, small number.... even smaller for wargaming. 1 is the loneliest number.
And no, not all "men are pigs/sexist/unpleasant towards women", but if you run into that one guy, you either deal with it or go away.
Personally, I'm more of the, "I'm out of here, this guy ruined my mood." I just end up doing something else.
I know some people will say, play a solitaire game. But like I said, I'm a social creature.

To be sure though and more on point about the original argument that was posted:


1. I see thread after thread from men asking what games would be best to introduce their wives/gf into the (wargaming) hobby.  I also see similar threads asking what games to introduce to their children as well and that very often includes their daughters.  I think that most, if not all men, would love to have a female join them.  Hell, men would love to have *anybody* join them I think because finding an opponent in this very niche hobby is our biggest challenge.  I have a picture of me and my girlfriend playing Up Front.  I was so damn proud, happy and excited that she actually asked me to "try out one of your little games" that I took pictures and posted them here.  Others have done the same.  It's rare but it happens and I believe that the majority of men highly encourage that.


2. I disagree that it's because of lack of exposure that women don't play wargames.  I still contend that it's because of lack of interest in the subject matter.  If you go to your local library/book store and go to the military history section - what percentage of those authors are male as compared to female do you think?  Is it because the women weren't taught history in school that they don't later grow up to further research and write about it themselves?  Is it because the male history authors bully them out of becoming history authors?  No, I don't think so.  I think that the history of the 101st airborne dropping out of planes over the coast of France in June of '44 is just something that doesn't appeal to a wide range of females.  Why?  I can only guess that it's by intelligent design.  I don't think it's because boys play with GI Joes and girls play with Barbie.  I just believe that we are hard-wired that way by whatever creator or the method one chooses to believe in. 

[Staggerwing]

Mom! Dad! It's evil! Don't touch it!

One of my favorite movies!  O0

[Crazy Girl]

Mom! Dad! It's evil! Don't touch it!

Yeah, if you touch me you'll get burned.  >:D

I think you mean 'batting 1000'. Batting 100 is pretty damn awful.  ;)

Guess it doesn't matter, cuz my power level is pretty high...

1. I see thread after thread from men asking what games would be best to introduce their wives/gf into the (wargaming) hobby.  I also see similar threads asking what games to introduce to their children as well and that very often includes their daughters.  I think that most, if not all men, would love to have a female join them.  Hell, men would love to have *anybody* join them I think because finding an opponent in this very niche hobby is our biggest challenge.  I have a picture of me and my girlfriend playing Up Front.  I was so damn proud, happy and excited that she actually asked me to "try out one of your little games" that I took pictures and posted them here.  Others have done the same.  It's rare but it happens and I believe that the majority of men highly encourage that.

When a man takes the time to include the significant other, that's awesome! Like you taking the time with your girlfriend to play the game. That's so cool! But would you take the time to teach a stranger, so they could join you? I mean, I've been told, "do this, do that, then come back". It's like I'm never going to get UP to your level to be a "worthy" opponent if I don't even have a chance to begin. Perhaps the majority of men do encourage that, but I have yet to come across one that would be "willing" to show me the way.  So for now, I learn on my own.

2. I disagree that it's because of lack of exposure that women don't play wargames.  I still contend that it's because of lack of interest in the subject matter.  If you go to your local library/book store and go to the military history section - what percentage of those authors are male as compared to female do you think?  Is it because the women weren't taught history in school that they don't later grow up to further research and write about it themselves?  Is it because the male history authors bully them out of becoming history authors?  No, I don't think so.  I think that the history of the 101st airborne dropping out of planes over the coast of France in June of '44 is just something that doesn't appeal to a wide range of females.  Why?  I can only guess that it's by intelligent design.  I don't think it's because boys play with GI Joes and girls play with Barbie.  I just believe that we are hard-wired that way by whatever creator or the method one chooses to believe in. 

Okay, you can't enjoy something you haven't tried. You probably won't try it if you don't know of its existence. Like Au Pied de Cochon in Paris, best snails ever... I don't remember anything else from that place, but I remember that. Now, in school, sure we are exposed to most of the same subjects, but if you do go to the library, most authors are men in general, especially in hard sciences, politics and history. It's a long history, at some point women weren't allowed in combat. But hey, I spent some time on some military bases because I was doing some research and the tides are changing, but it is a slow process. At the  end of the day GI Joes are dolls just like Barbie... and we are wired differently. Because you're right, we all have different interests. I feel that we are on the same page for different reasons. You say, and I'm cutting it short. Not that many women are interested. True, but then those who are might not feel welcomed. I just wanted to share my personal experience and point of view. Putting it out there "I'm interested." But the truth is I don't feel welcomed. So I'm out.

[panzerde]

Go to Matrix or John Tiller Software and pick a game you're interested in. Buy it and I'll teach you to play PBEM. Or, if you don't want to do that go to LnL Publishing, pick one of the LnL tactics games, and we'll set up a Vassal session and I'll teach you to play.

If stuff like X-Wing and Settlers of Catan are more your interest someone else will have to step up because those aren't my interests, but if you want to play a wargame, I'm in. And I don't mean sometime, I mean immediately. I'll teach you to play any time you want.

Or, show up at Origins. We're short at least one Game Master. We can teach you to play there, and then you can help other people learn about wargaming.

I'm a lot more interested in what you want to play than anything else. Dependable, regular opponents are too few and far between.

[bayonetbrant]

Or, show up at Origins. We're short at least one Game Master. We can teach you to play there, and then you can help other people learn about wargaming.

I'm a lot more interested in what you want to play than anything else. Dependable, regular opponents are too few and far between.

What Doug said :)

[GroggyGrognard]

Interesting discussion.
I guess I got lucky: my woman has beaten me at W1815, Battleline, and Hold the Line. The aspects she enjoys most about the games are competition and the theme (historical, fictional, etc.).

However, she does--benevolently--shell out a hard time when I'm watching WWII In Color on Netflix at 8:00 in the morning.

Who knows what kind of people would come out of the woodwork if a thread was created that was titled Transgender & Wargaming.



Groggy

[Crazy Girl]

I purposely didn't respond to undercovergeek's "tampon" joke. Yes imagine bleeding 3-5 day, every month... for years. So annoying.
ANYWAYS.

Mr. panzerde, I will reach out to you when I get to a level of comfort. Because...

"I'm interested." But the truth is I don't feel welcomed. So I'm out.

Sir bayonetbrant, I don't know who Doug is, but I'm guessing it's panzerde.

And Groggy dude, you did get lucky. Transgender & Wargaming, um. Nice.

Happy International Women's Day boys, cause there are real wars to be won all over the world.
Wargaming in America is somewhat at the bottom of a very, very, very long list.
www.internationalwomensday.com/

[Ubercat]

Heh. I'll be playing a wargame with a transgendered opponent this Thursday.

[bayonetbrant]

Heh. I'll be playing a wargame with a transgendered opponent this Thursday.

heck, we had one on the Grogcast just recently!

[Cyrano]

My wife has always agreed to play any wargame with me once.  Except ASL.  Never ASL.  I am on notice.  She even played "Outdoor Survival" once which is all but framed at my house as the worst game ever designed.  As my son has grown she has happily sloughed off that responsibility to him, but we've got a round of "Epic Duels" set for tonight and our recent hard run at Legendary Encounters: Alien was brilliant.

Also, gentlemen, I entered this thread with no small measure of trepidation and am delighted that, as far as ai can tell, at no point did this degenerate into a conversation about ANY female body parts.  Entirely well done.  I take this as progress.

[bayonetbrant]

Also, gentlemen, I entered this thread with no small measure of trepidation and am delighted that, as far as ai can tell, at no point did this degenerate into a conversation about ANY female body parts.  Entirely well done.  I take this as progress.

to be fair, there's no shortage of those elsewhere

[LongBlade]

Also, gentlemen, I entered this thread with no small measure of trepidation and am delighted that, as far as ai can tell, at no point did this degenerate into a conversation about ANY female body parts.  Entirely well done.  I take this as progress.

Well, Crazy Girl kicked off the OP with the mention of some "stress balls" but in a remarkable show of restraint no one took the bait. Probably for the reason Brant notes above.