Alien: Covenant

[SirAndrewD]

Will some of those future Scott Free movies explain why the Engineers are such assholes?

In the same interview I referenced, Scott actually went into that, with a sad implication that the future films won't address it. 

His explanation was that, in a nutshell, the Engineers dabbled in a lot of civilizations and that humanity just didn't fit what they thought was the right evolutionary path.  They, when viewing humans 2000 years ago, saw them as violent, barbaric, and potentially a threat if left unchecked, so they decided in an almost bureaucratic fashion to just hit reset and start over while mankind was still a very primitive non problem.   Of course we saw in Prometheus that the ship tasked with hitting reset on humanity was 2000 years too late, so the Engineer in that film was truly horrified to see that all their fears about what humanity might do unchecked had come true. 

[ghostryder]

Children of Men got really, really close to predicting the world we live in now.

Alien - Isolation takes place on the Sevastopol, which is not a ship...it's a station. I may be nitpicking but to me there's a difference. A station would/will be like a mall in space.

Gus Gus Gus. We have a space today. Space is at a premium. It's not a roomy mall like station. Space costs....lots. Every inch is INTENTIONALLY engineered to be of use. That's a known common demoninator. If your in space your gonna be in cramped conditions and that's likely never to change. Are you aware how many times NASA downsized their ship to Mars? Because of costs? Look it up.Heck..just look up how much our current space station was downsized compared to the original plan. Alien Isolation's station as science and believable is comical.

[MikeGER]

If your in space your gonna be in cramped conditions and that's likely never to change.

depends on invention/engineering quantum leaps

Even with todays tech dreamed only a decade into the future  it might be getting much cheaper to bring a kilogram matter into an high orbit if just the political will would be there to do it

I think of the reusable rockets that are already popping up and and those in a larger and often reused version, with liquid O2 and liquid H2 fuel, which could get generated by electrolysis, then compressed and stored with electric energy from a wind-farm / solar collector combo powerplant in the desert right 'near' (safe distance) the launch complex (or space harbor)
so after a hefty start investment, the fuel would be for free, surplus energy from the wind/solar farm will get sold to the energy market and founds the revision of the the reusable rocket fleet, the upkeep of the powerplant itself, and a slow repay of the taxpayers start investment.

The engineering quantum leap, is getting the rocket engines and body-structure into real long reuse cycles
And IIRC there are also jet/rocket engines crossover in the work elsewhere for a possible 'spaceplane'.
those engines can use the oxygen from the atmosphere as long as possible like a jetliner and then the same engine switch over to internal tanks and 'rocket-mode' to climb into the orbit.
Well that would be reserved for transport of humans, not for the haul of the big modules     
 

[Gusington]

If you're gonna compare the ISS to the Sevastopol well I really don't know what else to say. This is fiction GR and it's supposed to be fantastic and blow us away. You probably don't like A Trip to the Moon either because the rocket hits the moon in the wrong eye or something. Good day.

[ghostryder]

The Space X project is very interesting to keep up on. being a private enterprise costs weight even more than a government funded program via NASA. NASA downsides because of budget costs whereas a private venture may look at the higher costs as a long term investment. Space X certainly is--putting most of it's eggs into 're-useability' that will make the investment pay off.

But even if that works out---it still does not explain wasted dead space found on a station like in Alien Isolation. Even an indoor mall uses it's space far more effectively. It's just downright silly. i know why the programmer's did it---for pathfinding sake. it would be very difficult to get pathfinding to work in a situation even seen in the first alien movie with the narrow halls. So let's not try to pretend such a station could exist---it simply would not because regardless of costs no one is going to be that wasteful.

If you're gonna compare the ISS to the Sevastopol well I really don't know what else to say. This is fiction GR and it's supposed to be fantastic and blow us away. You probably don't like A Trip to the Moon either because the rocket hits the moon in the wrong eye or something. Good day.


Your missing the point Gus. of course it's fiction. Is it believable fiction? Or in other words Hard Sci-fi or Space Opera. The whole point is the franchise has went from hard sci-fi to Space opera.

[JudgeDredd]

Children of Men got really, really close to predicting the world we live in now.

Alien - Isolation takes place on the Sevastopol, which is not a ship...it's a station. I may be nitpicking but to me there's a difference. A station would/will be like a mall in space.

Gus Gus Gus. We have a space today. Space is at a premium. It's not a roomy mall like station. Space costs....lots. Every inch is INTENTIONALLY engineered to be of use. That's a known common demoninator. If your in space your gonna be in cramped conditions and that's likely never to change. Are you aware how many times NASA downsized their ship to Mars? Because of costs? Look it up.Heck..just look up how much our current space station was downsized compared to the original plan. Alien Isolation's station as science and believable is comical.

But this is Sci-Fi...you said in your spoiler that "it's just not sci-fi". Isn't the issue that you can do what you like with Sci-Fi?

By the way, one thing that got me in the movie was the fire extinguisher. Seriously? There are still fire extinguishers and they have to be used by a person? That's when I don't get sci-fi...when it shows things "as they are now". I'm like "Seriously? They didn't invent auto-discharging fire extinguishing equipment?"

So my view on sci-fi, I gather, is the opposite of yours. You see it as "Look at how this is now. Why is it not like that in the future?" and I'm more "Why have they got in the future what we have now? Why have they not bettered things?"

You are doing, are you not, what you're accusing them of doing...confusing science fiction with now.

[MikeGER]

---it simply would not because regardless of costs no one is going to be that wasteful.

I would hate if Arabs (radical Muslims ) would go to space ... but they had build a full blown skiing hall in the gulfstates deserts! speaking about wastefulness ::)

I would not be astonished if those would build a flying mosque in space one day just because they could  (and as symbol of Islam supremacy) which is nothing more then a big empty hall with rags - perfect for pathfinding on non prayer times, btw ;-)  if we found them by buying their darn oil a little longer.

[Gusington]

I would love it if the Islamofascists went to space and never came back.

[MikeGER]

I would love it if the Islamofascists went to space and never came back.

they need a little help from from us first  ...we have to blow them up sky high ;)

[Gusington]

Whatever works.

[ghostryder]

Children of Men got really, really close to predicting the world we live in now.

Alien - Isolation takes place on the Sevastopol, which is not a ship...it's a station. I may be nitpicking but to me there's a difference. A station would/will be like a mall in space.

Gus Gus Gus. We have a space today. Space is at a premium. It's not a roomy mall like station. Space costs....lots. Every inch is INTENTIONALLY engineered to be of use. That's a known common demoninator. If your in space your gonna be in cramped conditions and that's likely never to change. Are you aware how many times NASA downsized their ship to Mars? Because of costs? Look it up.Heck..just look up how much our current space station was downsized compared to the original plan. Alien Isolation's station as science and believable is comical.

But this is Sci-Fi...you said in your spoiler that "it's just not sci-fi". Isn't the issue that you can do what you like with Sci-Fi?

By the way, one thing that got me in the movie was the fire extinguisher. Seriously? There are still fire extinguishers and they have to be used by a person? That's when I don't get sci-fi...when it shows things "as they are now". I'm like "Seriously? They didn't invent auto-discharging fire extinguishing equipment?"

So my view on sci-fi, I gather, is the opposite of yours. You see it as "Look at how this is now. Why is it not like that in the future?" and I'm more "Why have they got in the future what we have now? Why have they not bettered things?"

You are doing, are you not, what you're accusing them of doing...confusing science fiction with now.

I do not disagree with that. I never thought about the fire extinguisers either-and given the fire accident of Apollo and Oxygen use one would imagine that in the future it's as silly as watching Kirk and crew being thrown about on the bridge because they're clueless about seat belts. But what seperates hard sci-fi from silly is can you ask yourself, "yeah I can see that happening" and that is always based on our current understanding today.

Gattaca works because of what we now know about DNA and gene splicing and so on today. It is easy to extend it to the premise of the movie. that looks feasible. Taking off your helmet in an alien environment you know nothing about doesn't work no matter how you push the science. Nor does the wasted space of the Station in Isolation.

Space X is going to be very interesting. If they succeed-- and you can in fact buy a ticket to mars for about the same price as buying mortgage--for the months long trip you can't simply cram them in like Jet Blue. Your going to need 'space' just to keep them from going nuts. How they make that cost effective may be more than 'reusability' can offset--

[JudgeDredd]

...Taking off your helmet in an alien environment you know nothing about doesn't work no matter how you push the science

You're making an assumption they know nothing about it though. I thought the same when it happened and mentioned earlier in the thread. But sci-fi is sci-fi. I actually heard the ship read out the composition of the planet and so perhaps the AI on the ship was able to relay the information required to the people that it was breathable and ok to go helmet free.

In Prometheus you heard them say the computer was reporting earth-like air and David confirmed it.

Was it sensible to take your helmet off? Given hindsight and what happened, no. Would we have taken our helmets off if it was reported that it was earth-like? Very probably. Are people stupid? Yes. Are there likely to be stupid people in the future? Yes.

I honestly think you are waaaay over thinking on it. You are looking at current world situations and applying them to the future and that can't really work. The whole idea of sci-fi is that belief can be suspended because it's in the future - it hasn't happened.

As I said - if you were pointing out things that show their lack of change - especially from a technical perspective, then I think those would be valid points. But you're not. You're applying current logic to the future but you have no idea what will be the case in the future.

There was something wrong in the movie that you didn't point out which was way more annoying to me than anything you mentioned
[spoiler]The ship they landed on - it was small...like a people transport. And yet when the Captains wife and the soldier got back to the ship, the pilot of that ship locked then in the med bay - and ran down a corridor that could never have been there...not ever. The med bay was at the side of the ship and the ship was nowhere near wide enough to have that corridor.

It could've been something that was deployed from the ship when it landed - but there was no indication of that[/spoiler]

[ghostryder]

...Taking off your helmet in an alien environment you know nothing about doesn't work no matter how you push the science

You're making an assumption they know nothing about it though. I thought the same when it happened and mentioned earlier in the thread. But sci-fi is sci-fi. I actually heard the ship read out the composition of the planet and so perhaps the AI on the ship was able to relay the information required to the people that it was breathable and ok to go helmet free.

In Prometheus you heard them say the computer was reporting earth-like air and David confirmed it.

Was it sensible to take your helmet off? Given hindsight and what happened, no. Would we have taken our helmets off if it was reported that it was earth-like? Very probably. Are people stupid? Yes. Are there likely to be stupid people in the future? Yes.

I honestly think you are waaaay over thinking on it. You are looking at current world situations and applying them to the future and that can't really work. The whole idea of sci-fi is that belief can be suspended because it's in the future - it hasn't happened.

As I said - if you were pointing out things that show their lack of change - especially from a technical perspective, then I think those would be valid points. But you're not. You're applying current logic to the future but you have no idea what will be the case in the future.

There was something wrong in the movie that you didn't point out which was way more annoying to me than anything you mentioned
[spoiler]The ship they landed on - it was small...like a people transport. And yet when the Captains wife and the soldier got back to the ship, the pilot of that ship locked then in the med bay - and ran down a corridor that could never have been there...not ever. The med bay was at the side of the ship and the ship was nowhere near wide enough to have that corridor.

It could've been something that was deployed from the ship when it landed - but there was no indication of that[/spoiler]

You just don't take your helmet off because there's no air. You don't take it off because there might be pathagens that'll kill you. Especially on a planet known to have life. there's no way- in either film- mother could have possible scanned, cataloged and identified and produced vaccines to combat whatever millions of different germs are there. Your going to in the least--in the simpliest terms-expose a lab rat before you expose a human. Therefore full protection should have always been worn during both films. there's really no sound reason not to aside from a director saying, "it's better if we see their face for expressions." other than that the alien can still kill them via the plot regardless.

And the fact the director did say---"screw the science. take the helmet off" only makes my point. Not to mention in Covenant no one noticed-including the ship's computer- there was no "birds" or any organic life at all until they walked around a bit. In real terms that should...and would be know before anyone stepped outside and is certainly a reason to be wearing a helmet. The whole movie is plain silly in this regard and this isn't high end only a few scientist would know stuff....this is basic stuff and common sense stuff anyone would notice.

H.G. Wells used just that in War of the Worlds. When you think about it--that too would be dumb. They came all this way and planned this all these years and they took their helmet off? The first film repected it---Ripley wasn't going to let them onboard. Here-they throw it all out the window---and in doing so really ruins the franchise IMHO. And no- I have to disagree. Being Earthlike is exactly why you keep the helmet on.

[JasonPratt]

I've heard that there's a scene in the movie after the Neomorphs start popping out, where someone in the cast (Tennessee?) directly lampshades how grossly stupid they were to go around without a helmet.

That's the worst kind of lampshading: it's essentially admitting the writers knew better, and knew that the characters would know better, but needed a plot kickstart so they might as well call attention to it.


Re the large rooms in Alien: Isolation being unrealistic -- none of these films work without faster than light travel, which is far more scientifically impossible right now and which the films routinely blink past. So compared to that, I'm willing to grant exotic alloys allowing a space station to look like a train station or airport without the need for cramming every square inch of surface space full of usefulness. (Which is also done in real life because space itself is freaking deadly even without Tyrannids which can grow from half a hand size to 8' plus in a few hours without eating anything.)


Re Scott deciding not to connect with Aliens as canon: I can't say I like it, but I can understand the choice. In the director's cut of Alien we see that the captain has been impregnated after being captured, which shouldn't happen without a queen either, but then the Xeno doesn't look like it can lay eggs. Apparently Scott doesn't think a queen beast is necessary for all the eggs in the crashed ship. How he's going to solve that problem, or try to, we'll see I guess.

Re Scott doing three sequels to Prometheus: I've heard the other one will be an intraquel going into the David/Shaw story in more detail. Whichever one they do first, who knows. Personally I'll be very surprised if they ever go back to the David/Shaw story.


Re A3 and AR being alt canon: they couldn't possibly be alt-canon in the sense that the Prometheus timeline is shaping up to be. They follow very explicitly from events in prior films, A3 somewhat moreso than AR. The AvP films are clearly alt-canon, on the other hand, and that's fine.

[JasonPratt]

RedLetterMedia does a spoiler followup to their Covenant review. No really new criticisms here, but their shellshocked schtick is funny.