Tank On Tank Digital is now available for from LnLP and Jo Bader

[Moreb]

I'm not a reviewer but here is my opinion;

Initial impressions are that ToT is a game that offers a spectacular presentation of one of the most simplistic tactical games on the market. If I were to liken it to any of the tactical games currently out there it would be Heroes of Normandy because the player is limited to moving a small number of units each turn and part of the strategy is deciding which ones. As pointed out in the review posted above, players will be able to perform 2 to 4 actions each turn, with some notable exceptions. Using HQ units, a player can also move adjacent units without it costing Action Points.

The game is definitely catered to a beginner and imo, those that have played almost any kind of wargame prior will be underwhelmed with the depth. It may have a following from those that are looking for a quick, simple game that can be wrapped up in a half hour or so.

If I were to rate it for what it is, a beginners game, I would say it does a great job. The visuals are excellent. The colors are bright. The U.I. is clear and easy to understand. Both the maps and counters are fantastic as are the visual effects and sounds of the game. I love the way the hex selected is shown in the upper left of the screen in 3-D ala ASL, but I wish it was displayed for every hex the mouse was scrolled over instead of being limited to only hexes that currently contain a unit. I still don't like the trajectory of the fired shells but that may just be me. Again, the presentation is top notch. I wish other developers would look at this, and HoN, and incorporate these things into a more complex system. I would highly recommend this title hoping to get someone into the hobby or even as just a primer for tactical games, although I think the price point is a little high for the content.

As for me and my taste, I don't really see any longevity with the game. There are several things that make this title fall flat compared to similar titles such as HoN, HoS,Coh etc. First, it is too simple. Even HoN has more depth as regard to unit variety. Every unit has the same attack (the dice roll) and the only thing different is the range the attacker can fire from. There are no attack values at all. A tank has the same attack possibilities as an infantry and only by qualifying for one of the few modifiers are the attacks any different. This is the biggest drawback for me and, quite honestly, a deal breaker. The maps are not that big, but that doesn't matter much because the second most limiting thing about the game is the lack of range on the individual units. Infantry can only attack 1 hex away and tanks have a range of 2 or 3 hexes. This makes LOS mostly irrelevant. It does use los which is blocked by the usual suspects (buildings, woods, hills, other units) but hardly a factor considering most units have a range of one or two hexes. Indirect fire units have a longer range and a big part of the game seems to be using other units in los of an enemy to make a ranged attack with them. IMO, it boils down to moving to close contact and then rolling a sterile, and too similar attack. The modifiers are also too similar. Buildings, woods, fortified positions all have the -1 effect to die rolls. I would have preferred a lower defense value on the units and more variances in modifiers. Maybe stone buildings are worth more?

The AI seems capable, but I think the game relies too much on luck. There is no save feature in the scenarios which may not be too much of a problem because I think most games would be around a half hour or less but I would have liked one for when I do have to shut things down for a bit. As far as bang for the buck. I'm going to have to say not so much. While the game comes with some good maps, imo, there arent enough canned scenarios. That and the fact that it, like most others, uses the same solo play scenarios as part of its campaign. For instance, the Stalingrad campaign uses the same map through 5 scenarios. The exact same map. One that is offered in solo play. This, coupled with the lack of an editor and I can see I'd be through the scenarios in no time and be quite bored with it very quickly. For the price, which is not cheap, I think more maps would have been better. But I'm just not sure that would even help considering the samesy feeling of the limited number of units and stats. Even though this game is similar to Heroes of Normandy in both its interactive and visual presentation and limited actions per turn, at least HoN has units with different ranges, attack values, a complete card system, and unit specific actions.

So what do we have? A beautifully created and much too limited game that, imo, doesn't offer enough in the terms of game play and content to warrant the price. Your mileage may vary.

[-budd-]

Damn... for not being a reviewer that's a pretty good one. Thanks for your thoughts on the game.

[Richie61]

Yeah, nice review job  O0 Well done!

[Moreb]

Youre welcome and thanks. I knew my 8th grade education would come in handy at some point.

I take no pleasure posting negative things about a game that others have obviously put a lot of effort into. I'm just not that critical of a person. Besides, I really want LnL to succeed. They seem to be willing to produce digital games that think outside the musty box we've all be drawing from. I'm going to play further to see how this game breaks down a little more concerning strategy and I hope to pick up a few online games to up the stakes. My wish is that this game would find the customer it deserves. Finding that person, and pricing it accordingly may be the biggest hurdle.

[-budd-]

Well it looks like its what it's presented to be, a well done entry level, quick play game.. no harm in that, hope its sells for them. I'm looking forward to some of there games namely All things zombie shotgun, WAW and LnL tactical, there just isnt any info to believe these are close to release.

[Richie61]

Still looks like a fun game to waste time when bored and want a simple yet quick and fun game.  :)

[Zulu1966]

Yes thanks moreb . I have had two failed attempts to buy this at the lock store and may have dodged a bullet it seems. Will spend the money on the co DLC instead.😁

[Moreb]

It is certainly a fun, fast game. I can't state enough how impressed I am with the presentation. I've played a bit more and the detail put into the ambiance is so stellar. The AI is a bear too. I'm getting spanked in the D-Day campaign.

I hope no one gets the impression that this isn't a good game, because it is. In fact, I would rate it as a 9 out of 10 for a low complexity game. It just doesn't have the depth that I would have liked even more. But it doesn't claim to be anything other than it is. An entry, and or quick game to play. My expectations are mine alone.

I'm not sure who the programmers are but they should really be commended. The game, while certainly light, performs excellent. Their vision is one I'd like to see in other systems in the future. Take a look at Tigers on the Hunt. That game has way more depth but the execution comes off as awkward and counter intuitive. It is clunky and too cumbersome. It does however have an editor, something that would really help this game.

I'm off to play some more. I've got to get off the beaches. If anyone wants to try a MP game drop me a PM.

[Richie61]

Moreb,

Sounds cool  :)

Thanks for the update  O0

[panzerde]

I'm going to be writing a review, but all-in-all the computer version is a pretty good representation of the board game. I think Moreb's comments are pretty spot on. This is not an incredibly deep game, but it isn't meant to be. This is a game that can be played in 30 minutes or so and is great for beginners, but is a fun diversion for the experienced wargamer that wants a little armor action but doesn't want to spend three hours.


The game - either version - does reward intelligent tactical play. The computer version adds some nice features that make it even easier to play without sacrificing the fun of the boardgame version. Like Moreb, I'm not at all sure I care for the shell animations, but I definitely like the remainder of the UI and how it plays. Probably the most interesting mechanic of the original game has been faithfully recreated in the computer version; players not only receive a variable number of command points per turn, but have no idea if they will receive two, three, or four CPs in any given turn. This mechanic adds some interesting challenge and depth to the game that makes up for the simplicity of combat. You have to more carefully plan and consider your moves, since you don't know if you'll be able to execute your next action before you have to deal with enemy return fire. Being able to activate multiple units that are adjacent using HQ units for a single command point again adds to the tactical considerations of the game.


In thirty years of marriage, I've never been able to get my wife to play a wargame. A few months ago she did, and the game was Tank on Tank. Not only did she play, but she enjoyed it enough that she asked to play it again. It really is an ideal starter game. No, it isn't ASL or LnL Tactical. Having said that, even I, as crusty a square-button grognard as they come, enjoy pulling this game out and playing a game or two when I'm just not up for something heavier. Having it in a computer version makes doing that even more likely.


I'll stop there so as not to have written my entire review as a forum post.  ;)  I'll just say that I think there's more to this than might be obvious at first, and having either version of this game in your collection is probably something you won't regret.

[Cantatta]

Hello guys, I'm new to the forums here, but I'm a long time wargamer.  Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Trent Garner and I helped to bring the digital edition of Tank on Tank into being, both as a play tester and scenario developer, with the odd UI design idea as well.  Jo Bader has done a marvelous job coding the game and the AI, it was great working with him and the rest of the team.  David and LNLP must also be thanked as the publisher.  I'm glad to see you guys showing interest in the digital game, we worked long and hard to bring it to you.  Your feedback is welcome.  It's good to hear the game is well received, for the most part.  As stated, it isn't the most in-depth game out there, but it is well programmed, with high production values and a devilishly good AI.

For those interested, you will eventually be able to add scenarios to the game, though there won't be the traditional scenario editor tool some might expect.  This feature should be added in an update sometime in the near future.  As a forum moderator at LNLP, I will be available there to answer questions and assist anyone who wants to learn how to edit scenarios, once the feature goes live.  The system for editing scenarios is a little unusual, but once you get the hang of it, you can crank out new scenarios in fairly short order.  Drop by the LNLP forums and say hello, I'll be happy to help.

Thanks for your support, we hope you enjoy the game!

Trent Garner

[panzerde]

Hi Trent! Thanks for dropping in. I'm going to be doing a Grogheads review of the game right after Christmas. As someone that's played a fair amount of the boardgame version of Tank on Tank, one of the things I'll be looking at are similarities and differences between the board game and digital versions. The biggest thing that jumped out at me was the lack of a scenario editor, so I'm glad to hear that there'll be some capacity to do so at some point.


I would definitely like to hear more about the scenario editing capabilities and how they extend the game.


Merry Christmas!

[Richie61]

Hi Trent! Welcome aboard  :)

[Cantatta]

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys, I appreciate it!  Hope you all had a great holiday and found some new wargames under the tree.  I got the game Shogun,  along with the Tenno's Court expansion for same.  While not strictly a wargame, Shogun does depict the Sengoku (warring states) period of Japan.  You are vying to be the top warlord in the land, or the Shogun!!

Never surrender, never say die... see you on the battlefields!

~TG