CM 4.0 released

[WallysWorld]

I don't think CMSF ever got upgraded beyond 1.0.  It, and Combat Mission: Afghanistan, seem to be the only titles that haven't received engine upgrades.

Quite correct. There has been talk about the developers going back to CMSF and upgrading it to the newer engines.

[GJK]

I don't think CMSF ever got upgraded beyond 1.0.  It, and Combat Mission: Afghanistan, seem to be the only titles that haven't received engine upgrades.

Quite correct. There has been talk about the developers going back to CMSF and upgrading it to the newer engines.

Interesting- and I think it's the best of the series because of the unique content.  Hopefully they'll get it upgraded at some point.  Just checked and I have v1.32 of it. 

[JudgeDredd]

I don't think CMSF ever got upgraded beyond 1.0.  It, and Combat Mission: Afghanistan, seem to be the only titles that haven't received engine upgrades.

Quite correct. There has been talk about the developers going back to CMSF and upgrading it to the newer engines.

Interesting- and I think it's the best of the series because of the unique content.  Hopefully they'll get it upgraded at some point.  Just checked and I have v1.32 of it.

^ I totally agree. IMO CM:SF is at least more appealing to me and I'd love to see it upgraded. I have all the modules for it too...but it's been left behind even though it was their opening into the world of CM2 (and took some flack because of the move).

[RyanE]

I love how CMSF ended up, especially considering the tortured 4 year history it took to get there.  I go back and play it sometimes and realize how badly it runs on modern systems.  It runs like a dog on the 3-4 systems I have run it on recently.

But it is stuck in a nether world of playability.  It had a lot of nice features from CM1 stripped out of it.  But it has not benefited from BFC putting them back in for later CM2 games.  Its the worst of both worlds.

[demjansk1942]

I stopped playing the Battlefront games, discouraged by all the paid updates.  Plus, prices always stay the same

[Grim.Reaper]

Plus, prices always stay the same

Not true, recently they actually increased the cost of each base game by $5 :)  They said because of inflation, but have to admit not sure I have seen other games increase prices with time...certainly have seen them not decrease (i.e. Matrix) but hard to think of those games where prices went up without anything added.

Also if your an existing customer, you are paying more for the product then new customers because of the updates.....for example if you buy CMBN right now, you pay $60 to get the latest and greatest.  But if you bought the game at the start, you paid $60 then you paid $10 for v2 upgrade, then $10 for v3 upgrade, and then $10 for v4 upgrade (assuming you didn't buy bundle)....total of $90.

As I have said before, I go into this with my eyes wide open and whether I fully agree with their practices or not, at the moment I am still willing to go along with it since I do like the games and not many other options out there right now.  And although my total cost of ownership is more, that is spread out over many years of playing the game so really doesn't impact me much.

[Tuna]

Plus, prices always stay the same

Not true, recently they actually increased the cost of each base game by $5 :)  They said because of inflation, but have to admit not sure I have seen other games increase prices with time...certainly have seen them not decrease (i.e. Matrix) but hard to think of those games where prices went up without anything added.

Also if your an existing customer, you are paying more for the product then new customers because of the updates.....for example if you buy CMBN right now, you pay $60 to get the latest and greatest.  But if you bought the game at the start, you paid $60 then you paid $10 for v2 upgrade, then $10 for v3 upgrade, and then $10 for v4 upgrade (assuming you didn't buy bundle)....total of $90.

As I have said before, I go into this with my eyes wide open and whether I fully agree with their practices or not, at the moment I am still willing to go along with it since I do like the games and not many other options out there right now.  And although my total cost of ownership is more, that is spread out over many years of playing the game so really doesn't impact me much.

And on top of that, the WWII series is really one game with a ton of expansions.. but they some how made it into 3 - 4 games with some expansions..  I have CMBN, bought the 2.0 update.. Was thinking of getting the Market Garden 'expansion'. but in order to do that you have to buy updates and the expansion for like 50 bucks. .that's not an expansion price.

[Yskonyn]

Plus, prices always stay the same

Not true, recently they actually increased the cost of each base game by $5 :)  They said because of inflation, but have to admit not sure I have seen other games increase prices with time...certainly have seen them not decrease (i.e. Matrix) but hard to think of those games where prices went up without anything added.

Also if your an existing customer, you are paying more for the product then new customers because of the updates.....for example if you buy CMBN right now, you pay $60 to get the latest and greatest.  But if you bought the game at the start, you paid $60 then you paid $10 for v2 upgrade, then $10 for v3 upgrade, and then $10 for v4 upgrade (assuming you didn't buy bundle)....total of $90.

As I have said before, I go into this with my eyes wide open and whether I fully agree with their practices or not, at the moment I am still willing to go along with it since I do like the games and not many other options out there right now.  And although my total cost of ownership is more, that is spread out over many years of playing the game so really doesn't impact me much.

And on top of that, the WWII series is really one game with a ton of expansions.. but they some how made it into 3 - 4 games with some expansions..  I have CMBN, bought the 2.0 update.. Was thinking of getting the Market Garden 'expansion'. but in order to do that you have to buy updates and the expansion for like 50 bucks. .that's not an expansion price.

I disagree. Its a game engine, just like Tiller's games, Grigsby's games, etc.
Its a sound business plan to sell seperate games and I have no problem with it.
Besides, if they would go the single game route and had to cram all content into one game we'd have 10 years between something playable.
I am glad they do different games.

[Zulu1966]

What Manual ? I got an engine 4.0 manual with my download with all the new stuff in it so what are you talking about ?

The printed manuals that aren't coming out for several weeks. I ordered hardgoods.

It's not "bashing" to suggest the release was rushed, particularly since they say as much on their site. You should find better things to be outraged by.

No you are implying it's rushed. Matrix recently released strategic command 3 without the hard copy being ready. Holding up the digital release for the tiny minority who still buy hardcopy would be frankly ridiculous and bad business which is what you say they are.

[Destraex]

Plus, prices always stay the same

Not true, recently they actually increased the cost of each base game by $5 :)  They said because of inflation, but have to admit not sure I have seen other games increase prices with time...certainly have seen them not decrease (i.e. Matrix) but hard to think of those games where prices went up without anything added.

Also if your an existing customer, you are paying more for the product then new customers because of the updates.....for example if you buy CMBN right now, you pay $60 to get the latest and greatest.  But if you bought the game at the start, you paid $60 then you paid $10 for v2 upgrade, then $10 for v3 upgrade, and then $10 for v4 upgrade (assuming you didn't buy bundle)....total of $90.

As I have said before, I go into this with my eyes wide open and whether I fully agree with their practices or not, at the moment I am still willing to go along with it since I do like the games and not many other options out there right now.  And although my total cost of ownership is more, that is spread out over many years of playing the game so really doesn't impact me much.

And on top of that, the WWII series is really one game with a ton of expansions.. but they some how made it into 3 - 4 games with some expansions..  I have CMBN, bought the 2.0 update.. Was thinking of getting the Market Garden 'expansion'. but in order to do that you have to buy updates and the expansion for like 50 bucks. .that's not an expansion price.

I disagree. Its a game engine, just like Tiller's games, Grigsby's games, etc.
Its a sound business plan to sell seperate games and I have no problem with it.
Besides, if they would go the single game route and had to cram all content into one game we'd have 10 years between something playable.
I am glad they do different games.

I agree. Using this model they get more value but so do we. They also reverse patch the older games to bring them up to standard which is fine by me.
If you only want the original game. Just buy the original. It's your choice. It's not like it's required like a lot of online games to keep up with the community.
If you love a game you appreciate every scratch of content coming.

[Michael Dorosh]

No you are implying it's rushed. Matrix recently released strategic command 3 without the hard copy being ready. Holding up the digital release for the tiny minority who still buy hardcopy would be frankly ridiculous and bad business which is what you say they are.

I know you've elected to be severely butt-hurt over this, but misrepresenting what I said isn't really constructive.

Con: Just got a message back from the help desk those poor bastards are having to work troubleshooting CM 4.0 launch on Christmas so lets give them a break.

Dorosh: Why give them a break? They chose Christmas to release it - if they didn't want to support it, they could have waited until the new year.

Then you posted your unsupported belief about how BFC isn't in business to make money, but to do good deeds for worthy wargamers at Christmas. What this has to do with Matrix is anyone's guess.

[Grim.Reaper]

Battlefront posts are always interesting to watch....they seem to follow the same life cycle every time.....

1)  Someone posts talking about an upcoming release of a new game/module/patch/upgrade....some initial excitement and wondering what it will bring.  Although very few posts.

2)  Then discussion immediately dives into how bad the DRM is, product updates come out too slow, bad marketing, poor support, etc.  Very little, if any discussion on the game itself.

3)  The new game/module/patch/upgrade is released, the discussions shifts towards how the cost is too high (or shouldn't have to pay for a patch debate), the install process is nuts, and people having problems installing.

4)  Then some forum members go back and forth at each other because of their view points about the company/game.

Through this entire life cycle, multiple pages of posts get created, with maybe 1% (or less) of the posts actually talking about the game itself.

Next release is mentioned, and rinse and repeat occurs.....not sure if there is any other company or game series which this happens, but pretty much a guarantee for this one.  And I am not saying it is either wrong or right or who's fault it is (i.e. customers, company, or both), just an observation.  But hopefully someday something changes with the product, company, and fans since it really is one of the few games that provides a tactical experience and would hate to see it ever disappear.

[Tuna]

Plus, prices always stay the same

Not true, recently they actually increased the cost of each base game by $5 :)  They said because of inflation, but have to admit not sure I have seen other games increase prices with time...certainly have seen them not decrease (i.e. Matrix) but hard to think of those games where prices went up without anything added.

Also if your an existing customer, you are paying more for the product then new customers because of the updates.....for example if you buy CMBN right now, you pay $60 to get the latest and greatest.  But if you bought the game at the start, you paid $60 then you paid $10 for v2 upgrade, then $10 for v3 upgrade, and then $10 for v4 upgrade (assuming you didn't buy bundle)....total of $90.

As I have said before, I go into this with my eyes wide open and whether I fully agree with their practices or not, at the moment I am still willing to go along with it since I do like the games and not many other options out there right now.  And although my total cost of ownership is more, that is spread out over many years of playing the game so really doesn't impact me much.

And on top of that, the WWII series is really one game with a ton of expansions.. but they some how made it into 3 - 4 games with some expansions..  I have CMBN, bought the 2.0 update.. Was thinking of getting the Market Garden 'expansion'. but in order to do that you have to buy updates and the expansion for like 50 bucks. .that's not an expansion price.

I disagree. Its a game engine, just like Tiller's games, Grigsby's games, etc.
Its a sound business plan to sell seperate games and I have no problem with it.
Besides, if they would go the single game route and had to cram all content into one game we'd have 10 years between something playable.
I am glad they do different games.

I agree. Using this model they get more value but so do we. They also reverse patch the older games to bring them up to standard which is fine by me.
If you only want the original game. Just buy the original. It's your choice. It's not like it's required like a lot of online games to keep up with the community.
If you love a game you appreciate every scratch of content coming.

I'm not sure how they get more sales. It's a great game, I really enjoyed my PBEM's with Con.  I get tempted to grab more, but then I turn around and say "What else is out there". And my dollars are usually directed towards somewhere I will get more bang for the buck.

As I said, I was tempted to get Market Garden the other day, but see that I have to buy the 3/4 Update in order to do so.  I don't mean to say it should be one game because of the base price as much as the 'update' fee needed for each and everyone (under the hood it's the same game). So instead of being 25 bucks for a 'combo' update.. It should be a 10 dollar update to take care of the game. I get the fact that they want to charge for the updates because they want to make more money. But charge for multiple updates, because they want to get cash for each iteration?

Tiller as far as I know has not charged for updates over the years.

Nothing wrong with people wanting to support them, but some individuals may want to support other business models instead. Add in the DRM factor, that is a double whammy.

[Rayfer]

Battlefront posts are always interesting to watch....they seem to follow the same life cycle every time.....

1)  Someone posts talking about an upcoming release of a new game/module/patch/upgrade....some initial excitement and wondering what it will bring.  Although very few posts.

2)  Then discussion immediately dives into how bad the DRM is, product updates come out too slow, bad marketing, poor support, etc.  Very little, if any discussion on the game itself.

3)  The new game/module/patch/upgrade is released, the discussions shifts towards how the cost is too high (or shouldn't have to pay for a patch debate), the install process is nuts, and people having problems installing.

4)  Then some forum members go back and forth at each other because of their view points about the company/game.

Through this entire life cycle, multiple pages of posts get created, with maybe 1% (or less) of the posts actually talking about the game itself.

Next release is mentioned, and rinse and repeat occurs.....not sure if there is any other company or game series which this happens, but pretty much a guarantee for this one.  And I am not saying it is either wrong or right or who's fault it is (i.e. customers, company, or both), just an observation.  But hopefully someday something changes with the product, company, and fans since it really is one of the few games that provides a tactical experience and would hate to see it ever disappear.

Very true GR...threads about specific games quickly change to bashing the publisher's business model. Happens with Paradox games as well. 

[Grim.Reaper]

Nothing wrong with people wanting to support them, but some individuals may want to support other business models instead. Add in the DRM factor, that is a double whammy.


Well, as soon as there are suitable competitors to providing this kind of tactical game (personally, not a huge fan of Graviteam, plus they don't produce the areas I am interested), its hard to support other business models:)