CM 4.0 released

[Grim.Reaper]

Battlefront posts are always interesting to watch....they seem to follow the same life cycle every time.....

1)  Someone posts talking about an upcoming release of a new game/module/patch/upgrade....some initial excitement and wondering what it will bring.  Although very few posts.

2)  Then discussion immediately dives into how bad the DRM is, product updates come out too slow, bad marketing, poor support, etc.  Very little, if any discussion on the game itself.

3)  The new game/module/patch/upgrade is released, the discussions shifts towards how the cost is too high (or shouldn't have to pay for a patch debate), the install process is nuts, and people having problems installing.

4)  Then some forum members go back and forth at each other because of their view points about the company/game.

Through this entire life cycle, multiple pages of posts get created, with maybe 1% (or less) of the posts actually talking about the game itself.

Next release is mentioned, and rinse and repeat occurs.....not sure if there is any other company or game series which this happens, but pretty much a guarantee for this one.  And I am not saying it is either wrong or right or who's fault it is (i.e. customers, company, or both), just an observation.  But hopefully someday something changes with the product, company, and fans since it really is one of the few games that provides a tactical experience and would hate to see it ever disappear.

Very true GR...threads about specific games quickly change to bashing the publisher's business model. Happens with Paradox games as well.

Paradox does come close but I do believe gameplay gets discussed way more on their products, although some similar complaints about DLC, etc. get sprinkled in.

[Tuna]

Nothing wrong with people wanting to support them, but some individuals may want to support other business models instead. Add in the DRM factor, that is a double whammy.


Well, as soon as there are suitable competitors to providing this kind of tactical game (personally, not a huge fan of Graviteam, plus they don't produce the areas I am interested), its hard to support other business models:)

Nothing wrong with that. I think it's a great game too, I just try to behave with regards to purchases (My lucky wife). lol but the best business models are the ones where the developers get us to buy crap we never even play!!!!

[Grim.Reaper]

Nothing wrong with people wanting to support them, but some individuals may want to support other business models instead. Add in the DRM factor, that is a double whammy.


Well, as soon as there are suitable competitors to providing this kind of tactical game (personally, not a huge fan of Graviteam, plus they don't produce the areas I am interested), its hard to support other business models:)

Nothing wrong with that. I think it's a great game too, I just try to behave with regards to purchases (My lucky wife). lol but the best business models are the ones where the developers get us to buy crap we never even play!!!!

Can't argue that....although I certainly will buy games in 2017, hoping to limit them to ones I actually will play more than just a couple of times:)

[panzerde]

Battlefront posts are always interesting to watch....they seem to follow the same life cycle every time.....

1)  Someone posts talking about an upcoming release of a new game/module/patch/upgrade....some initial excitement and wondering what it will bring.  Although very few posts.

2)  Then discussion immediately dives into how bad the DRM is, product updates come out too slow, bad marketing, poor support, etc.  Very little, if any discussion on the game itself.

3)  The new game/module/patch/upgrade is released, the discussions shifts towards how the cost is too high (or shouldn't have to pay for a patch debate), the install process is nuts, and people having problems installing.

4)  Then some forum members go back and forth at each other because of their view points about the company/game.

Through this entire life cycle, multiple pages of posts get created, with maybe 1% (or less) of the posts actually talking about the game itself.

Next release is mentioned, and rinse and repeat occurs.....not sure if there is any other company or game series which this happens, but pretty much a guarantee for this one.  And I am not saying it is either wrong or right or who's fault it is (i.e. customers, company, or both), just an observation.  But hopefully someday something changes with the product, company, and fans since it really is one of the few games that provides a tactical experience and would hate to see it ever disappear.

Cyrano and I were talking yesterday after an MP game of Scourge of War: Waterloo, and I suggested that the mods just archive this thread. Then, the next time BFC releases anything we can just post the archive and save everyone a lot of time and effort posting.

[fabius]

I'm really tempted to upgrade Black Sea to 4.0 just for the improved infantry behaviour. But can't see a vid of it anywhere. Odd how little effort those guys put in to show new stuff off.

Also, does anybody know this: I if buy CM Final Blitzkrieg or Red Thunder from new now for $60 will it be 4.0 from one buy?


Side observation- I could be wrong but it looks to me like Battlefront forums have tumbleweed compared to the Barbarossa to Berlin days.

[Tuna]

I think someone already mentioned that if you buy a 'full' game you get the latest version.

[fabius]

I think someone already mentioned that if you buy a 'full' game you get the latest version.

Yeah, I did read that. That's how sort of 'not long-term view' that policy is. Because I don't quite believe it. May as well wait for then not so favourite conflict periods/theatres for the later upgraded version. That said, I guess it's less of an incentive to wait as most other companies quick depreciation into sales buckets.

[Bletchley_Geek]

Now that I can run it...

This a very subtle transformational change.  When CM2 started out, there were issues with defensively placed MGs not being able to effectively stop a small group infantry from approaching in the open.  They didn't fire often enough, the infantry didn't get suppressed fast enough, etc.  BFC made some good changes to fix that.  But one thing that was a disadvantage for the infantry is they clumped up and and always moved in a pretty straight column.  This allowed the fixed MGs to fire straight down the length of a squad and, once they had the range, mow the infantry down.  It was the one glaring issue in straight up open field infantry combat.  This upgrade seems to have fixed that now.   

I have an old MG test scenario in CMBN and now find that infantry approaching on a run will be stopped, but only after approaching within 300m.  My scenario has a simple HMG M1919 firing on a platoon on the move.  In the original CM2, the platoon could get within 150m and then gun down the MG crew.  In the fixed MG scenario, the MG stopped the platoon outside 500m, basically almost wiping out squads before they got pinned.  Now, the platoon gets to within 300m and then get gets pinned.  Now a real firefight develops at longer range.

I think this is a game changer for infantry combat and will push players to use real tactics against MGs and they can be effective.  The main change is squads a little more spread out, but mostly they don't move in straight columns.  Its fabulous to watch.

Great exposition of how the game has evolved over the past six years.

I also think some of the AI changes for scenario building will open scenario building up to players that have fewer skills with the tricks to get the AI to be a skilled opponent.

In my case, the new AI features allow to program a quite realistic attack plan, as you can now control facing and have a fire support element to actually do its job. Ammo consumption is a problem, though, and correct timing requires to "simulate" the plan and see what actually happens.

[jomni]

I'm really tempted to upgrade Black Sea to 4.0 just for the improved infantry behaviour. But can't see a vid of it anywhere. Odd how little effort those guys put in to show new stuff off.

Also, does anybody know this: I if buy CM Final Blitzkrieg or Red Thunder from new now for $60 will it be 4.0 from one buy?


Side observation- I could be wrong but it looks to me like Battlefront forums have tumbleweed compared to the Barbarossa to Berlin days.

Just installed the update on Black Sea.  Haven't fired it up though.

[Destraex]

QUESTION about the DEMO's - Are they updated to 4.0? Because this is the best way to demo to friends. The performance has improved with 4.0 and the experience is a little easier than before I think because of that.
Oh, and how do I set formations for my units as they move up? I move say 5 halftracks using the unit commander and they tend to single file. I don't want to make contact in single file and certainly don't want to micro manage so many units. Those Russian front battles seem to be huge.

[Yskonyn]

I dont know about the demo.

If you doubleclick on a unit you will select every unit in its platoon.
If you then issue a movement command they retain spacing as best they can. So first you micromanage every unit to be in formation and then you move the whole platoon.

[Destraex]

Thanks Yskonyn
Mine start in formation and then form line upon moving. I guess the terrain must be getting in the way. Or maybe I just need to watch to see them get back in formation when the opportunity presents.

Might it be because they are on standard move orders? They probably try to use roads then I guess.

None of this is my doing :)
These all started in line abreast and ended as soon as they moved in line astern. Like ww1 battlefleets. They were all moved using the commanders flag to highlight them by double clicking on the flag.
Incidentally I would also like my command vehicle in the middle or at the end. Minimising the risk of him getting killed first!

[JudgeDredd]

...
Incidentally I would also like my command vehicle in the middle or at the end. Minimising the risk of him getting killed first!

The only way to do that is manually move each unit. Double clicking the commander icon to select all his units leaves them in the "relative" positions they start. Though I don't know if that changed in 4.0

[Destraex]

I do say I it does seem to perform better and is "less" clunky since 4.0

Here is me watching a quad Zugkraftwagen 8t (flakvierling 20mm) Flak take out a t34 85. These boys pack a punch.

[JudgeDredd]

Could they have actually taken out a T34 from the front then?