End of wargamer.com

[Jarhead0331]

I'm no mind reader, but it would appear JH has no intention of drastically and fundamentally changing Grogheads any time soon. And who knows, maybe wargamers loss is Grogheads gain? Maybe this is an opportunity for Grogheads to fill the niche that wargamer has now abandoned.

"They can have my grog when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers!"

The community here is great. My only hope is that we can all move forward together in 2021 and try to bring the focus in the forums back to wargaming. The political stuff has its place, but it ends up dividing us and we are so much stronger when we are focused on the thing that brought us all together in the first place. The gaming!

In any event, all strays and refugees from Wargamer who weren't already here are welcome. I'm extremely happy to see some new faces and look forward to their contributions.

[Gusington]

^Welcome, SlagDog

And here, here JH

[hellfish6]

Maybe there aren't enough people like us around to keep real war gaming and war gaming sites profitable.

Very true...sad, but true.

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...

Here at Grogheads, we don't do it for the money and profit. We do it for the free alcohol and for the ladies.

I don't know if that's true.

I'd posit, instead, that there are lots of wargamers, but there aren't a lot of good wargames out there and even fewer than innovate. Professional wargaming is huge right now but you'd never know that by looking at what the gaming world - and especially us grognards - talk about and play (and for those of us with the mean, to develop).

A huge number of wargames are still archaic hex and counter games. I don't care how amazing your game system is, if you put it in on counters and hexes like Tactics II from a bajillion years ago, you're never going to pique my interest.

Where, instead, are the wargames that do logistics well, or provide the player with explicit decisions and real consequences (besides just the loss of a ship/plane/tank)? Where are the wargames - be they 4X, political sims, strategic/tactical/operational games or whatever - that have an AI/programmed opponent that can improvise? Nearly every game we play, the AI opponent will make a direct bee-line for whatever passes as an objective.

Nearly all of out wargames are built in these clean, known, well researched contexts with easily exploitable AI/programmed opponents and/or multiplayer systems that are balanced so perfectly, or so perfectly flawed, as to be completely flavorless.

Wargaming needs something like Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. Accessible, attractive and easy to learn. But, like my girlfriend, she'll accidentally learn how to fly (or wargame) along the way because that way is compelling.

[Apocalypse 31]

What really strikes me about the new content they're pushing is just how generic and low-level it all seems to be.  How to manage your forces in Hearts of Iron IV?  Introductory guide to Gloomhaven?  How to build a Magic: The Gathering deck?  Who the hell wants to read this crap?

It is so generic that it feels like a bot is writing it.

A bot that is designed to be so generic that its real purpose is to just generate web-clicks to satisfy a requirement for an online advertising agency.

[rustyshackleford]

What really strikes me about the new content they're pushing is just how generic and low-level it all seems to be.  How to manage your forces in Hearts of Iron IV?  Introductory guide to Gloomhaven?  How to build a Magic: The Gathering deck?  Who the hell wants to read this crap?

It is so generic that it feels like a bot is writing it.

A bot that is designed to be so generic that its real purpose is to just generate web-clicks to satisfy a requirement for an online advertising agency.

BINGO.

Appeal to the lowest-common denominator. Generate ad-clicks. Profit.

Maybe there aren't enough people like us around to keep real war gaming and war gaming sites profitable.

Very true...sad, but true.

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...

Here at Grogheads, we don't do it for the money and profit. We do it for the free alcohol and for the ladies.

I don't know if that's true.

I'd posit, instead, that there are lots of wargamers, but there aren't a lot of good wargames out there and even fewer than innovate. Professional wargaming is huge right now but you'd never know that by looking at what the gaming world - and especially us grognards - talk about and play (and for those of us with the mean, to develop).

A huge number of wargames are still archaic hex and counter games. I don't care how amazing your game system is, if you put it in on counters and hexes like Tactics II from a bajillion years ago, you're never going to pique my interest.

Where, instead, are the wargames that do logistics well, or provide the player with explicit decisions and real consequences (besides just the loss of a ship/plane/tank)? Where are the wargames - be they 4X, political sims, strategic/tactical/operational games or whatever - that have an AI/programmed opponent that can improvise? Nearly every game we play, the AI opponent will make a direct bee-line for whatever passes as an objective.

Nearly all of out wargames are built in these clean, known, well researched contexts with easily exploitable AI/programmed opponents and/or multiplayer systems that are balanced so perfectly, or so perfectly flawed, as to be completely flavorless.

Wargaming needs something like Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. Accessible, attractive and easy to learn. But, like my girlfriend, she'll accidentally learn how to fly (or wargame) along the way because that way is compelling.

I'd agree with you for PC gaming - nothing really new in the past decade or so, BUT I believe we are currently living through the Golden Ages of tabletop wargaming; I don't mean miniatures, but rather the classic hex-and-counter-chit type of wargaming. There are so many great and innovative games out there right now. Ghost Panzer comes to mind about one I've played recently.....traditional hex-and-counter wargame  but it simulates suppression fire like no other game I've ever played, PC included. And it's just a blast to play.

When I go to a site called "wargamer.com", THOSE are the types of games I expect to read about. Not MMO Fantasy stuff, or mainstream "war" games. The big games will always have their own devoted websites I can go to for tutorials, guides, etc. But with these great tabletop games, they're so small that even the big "names" rarely get their own official or fan-made websites. That doesn't devalue them or make them any less engaging and fun, but they get lost in the shadows and are never discovered.

[al_infierno]

What really strikes me about the new content they're pushing is just how generic and low-level it all seems to be.  How to manage your forces in Hearts of Iron IV?  Introductory guide to Gloomhaven?  How to build a Magic: The Gathering deck?  Who the hell wants to read this crap?

It is so generic that it feels like a bot is writing it.

A bot that is designed to be so generic that its real purpose is to just generate web-clicks to satisfy a requirement for an online advertising agency.

Spot on description.

[airboy]

Welcome Slagdog!

[airboy]

I can frequently get insight from reviews or questions on the forums to games I've not played and am considering purchasing.  I've also gotten many suggestions that have helped me enjoy games more.

Ignore the politics thread if it is not of interest.  But I will say that some of the people I tend to disagree with have been most helpful on many game topics.  In fact, I don't think I've ever gotten any suggestions on any game question I've ever brought up that was not either useful or humorous. 

One last point, if you have something that you would like to review that may be of interest to those here - contact Jarhead.  I have found almost all of the reviews to be helpful.  Some were helpful in pointing out that this is a genre I would not enjoy.  Others have been helpful in pointing out things I would like.

[Sir Slash]

I cut my teeth way back about 1998-99 on the Wargamer, one of the first sites I can remember going to. I didn't really know such a place existed. I came here to check-out some real people's opinion of Skyrim back when it came out to see what was the scoop on it. And I've never left--- that should scare the shit out of somebody. The stuff I read here about games, good and bad, is the real deal, not just a corporate line.

And almost never does a thread go off-topic.  ::)

[al_infierno]

I'm really interested in seeing some opinions about the new content from people who are deeply into Warhammer 40K or Magic: The Gathering or what-have-you.  Is this "starter" content really valuable content that will help get people into those games?  Comparing it to the "Best WWII/Vietnam/Korea/etc. Games" lists, which appear to be the only old content that wasn't blasted into oblivion (including stuff that was posted mere weeks ago), I'm not convinced that this is the case.  Half-way through the intro to M:TG article you get this gem of a paragraph explaining the most fundamental mechanic of the game:

However, these colour options don't merely provide an aesthetic variety – oh no. Colours are fundamental to the game's operation: you can't play a card unless you pay its cost in mana of the specified colour. Don't have enough green-mana-producing Forest cards on the board? Then that nasty-looking giant spider that's burning a hole in your hand ain't comin' out to play.

If this is any indicator of the general quality of their content, it's a fairly blatant attempt to ape the Rock Paper Shotgun model of games "journalism."  I can honestly say I wish them the best of luck, but man.... that front page is just depressing.

[HoodedHorseJoe]

I'm not dead, you know.

[HoodedHorseJoe]

They very quickly deleted my forum thread over there complaining about the change. Well done, fellows, well done.

I deleted your post because you were being an arse.

[Jarhead0331]

I'm not dead, you know.

But are you still WargamerJoe?

[al_infierno]

Joe, with all respect it's not obvious from the About Us page (which I looked at again) that you still have any meaningful say over the current content.  You're even listed as the "predecessor" in the new editor's description.  My impression was that you sold the site and it's under new ownership, and nothing on the About Us page contradicts this impression.

Since you're here, can you explain the choice to nuke a huge chunk of the old wargaming content?  I understand the choice to move forward with a new look and direction, but not the choice to get rid of years of content that people still enjoyed.

[HoodedHorseJoe]

I'm not dead, you know.

But are you still WargamerJoe?

What kind of ques- oh. :(

... I'll go change ...