Out of 8 Calling it Quits

[Fighting Farmer]

I guess my problem with the Out of 8 reviews is completely personal; one reviewer to another. 

When I review a game, I wait until I have a RELEASE build.  Then, I play the game for weeks; months if possible.  My reviews are pages, in length, and usually contain historical references and anecdotes.  That is my personal style, I'm not knocking anyone else.  However, THAT, in my opinion is thorough reviewing that takes time, commitment, dedication and hard work.  Research, even.  I know a lot of readers do not appreciate that, and prefer quick, hit-and-run style reviews, but that is just never how I did them.  It never resulted in a product I felt comfortable publishing.

I have also worked on PREVIEWs.  Those are articles that could be based on pre-release code and did not require as much of a commitment of time and effort.  Those are "first-impression" pieces, if you will.

Anyway, I don't want my comments to be misconstrued as beef.  Like I said in the OP, I'm sad to see Out of 8 go.  Any press that gets people reading and playing is good in my opinion.  I hope we see Jag making a successful switch to a new format.

Jarhead, why don't you post your feelings on the Wargamer? They currently have a active post ongoing concerning Out of Eight. No, you post your  backstabbing comments here and not there where Jim and others may read them. When you had your problems with losing your job and martial problems, everyone wrote in their positive support and gave you encouragement that things would get better. When Jim writes he is going to stop written reviews, you in turn jump on here and take pot shots at the way he does his reviews because its not the way you do reviews. Oh you are real clever, doing the old lawyer double talk where on one hand you criticize his reviews, his way of doing reviews and even have audacity the  question his work ethic stating his articles "did not require as much of a commitment of time and effort" but then you end you comments stating that your "sad to see Out of 8 go" and "I hope we see Jaq making a successful switch to a new format".  Its the old trick were a person rips someone yet then follows up saying something nice about them so people can't say what a jerk you are. It one thing to take shots at some unknown gaming company executive because you don't like the way they conduct business but Jim is a member of the wargaming community. I know there  were some at the Wargamer you did not get along with yet I have not seen them take shots you after you left that site but you can't seem to match their level of professionalism.

So go ahead Jarhead post your comments concerning Jim's way of reviewing over at the Wargamer. Your certainly quick with the comments over here. Better yet link this post over at the Wagamer and let all of them form their own opinions about you. Go ahead, walk the the talk.

I am done with this site. I think 99% of the people on this site are great folk but I will no longer participate here because to put it simply: I don't like Jarhead. He grated on my nerves at the Wargamer and he does so here. I think he is a loud mouth opinionated bully who thinks very highly of himself and I want to be far away from him.

"I guess my problem with the Out of 8 reviews is completely personal; one reviewer to another." My problem with Jarhead is also personal but unlike him I state my beef right here on this site in front of him. I don't run off to other sites to air my dislikes.

[Jarhead0331]

Jarhead, why don't you post your feelings on the Wargamer? They currently have a active post ongoing concerning Out of Eight.

My opinions of the Out of 8 reviews are no secret, and I've mentioned them on the wargamer, and to James on more than one occasion, so you have no idea what you're talking about.  As far as why my opinions are stated here and not there at this time, its because many of James' reviews were posted on the wargamer and it would be: 1) in poor taste to criticize his reviews on that site, where I am still a moderator; and 2) in poor taste to criticize his reviews in a thread created to inform the public of his change in plans.  Contrary to your ridiculous insinuation, I wish Jim and Out of 8 all the best in the future.

No, you post your  backstabbing comments here and not there where Jim and others may read them.

Backstabbing? You think I'm afraid of other people reading my comments?  Have you ever actually read any of my comments?  You either don't know me very well, or you're just a complete moron.

When you had your problems with losing your job and martial problems, everyone wrote in their positive support and gave you encouragement that things would get better. When Jim writes he is going to stop written reviews, you in turn jump on here and take pot shots at the way he does his reviews because its not the way you do reviews.

I do not really see what one has to do with the other, but you should probably be in therapy, because you hold some serious grudges.  I mean really, you've been holding this in since 2010?  Let it go dude...

Oh you are real clever, doing the old lawyer double talk where on one hand you criticize his reviews, his way of doing reviews and even have audacity the  question his work ethic stating his articles "did not require as much of a commitment of time and effort" but then you end you comments stating that your "sad to see Out of 8 go" and "I hope we see Jaq making a successful switch to a new format".  Its the old trick were a person rips someone yet then follows up saying something nice about them so people can't say what a jerk you are.

Again, hold many grudges?  "The old lawyer double talk?"  Sorry for stating my opinions, last time I checked, I was entitled to them.  When I want to "rip someone," I do it and do not feel the need to add a nice sentiment.  For instance, you're an asshole.  See, there was no nice comment following that statement.  Oh the audacity!

It one thing to take shots at some unknown gaming company executive because you don't like the way they conduct business but Jim is a member of the wargaming community. I know there  were some at the Wargamer you did not get along with yet I have not seen them take shots you after you left that site but you can't seem to match their level of professionalism.

You've NEVER seen someone take a shot at me? Damn, you really are a moron. Seriously, what rock did you crawl out from under?

So go ahead Jarhead post your comments concerning Jim's way of reviewing over at the Wargamer. Your certainly quick with the comments over here. Better yet link this post over at the Wagamer and let all of them form their own opinions about you. Go ahead, walk the the talk.

I am done with this site. I think 99% of the people on this site are great folk but I will no longer participate here because to put it simply: I don't like Jarhead. He grated on my nerves at the Wargamer and he does so here. I think he is a loud mouth opinionated bully who thinks very highly of himself and I want to be far away from him.

And I think you're a dickhead who will not be missed. 

[bayonetbrant]

Everybody take a deep breath. Stare at a flower for a few minutes.  Listen to some jazz (Grover Washington Jr works great).

Let's focus on the reviews, articles and insights, and not personal attacks.  Jarhead's comments on Out of 8's process might seem personal, in part b/c of his reputation, but it really reads as a critique of process, not author.  FF's comments are clearly personal.


Regardless, fewer voices in the market is almost always a bad thing.

[tgb]

Sorry to see it go.  I often agree with Jag's opinion of a game, and wish him the best.

[airboy]

I prefer reviews that took the time to play and understand the game substantially.  When I write reviews, they are often based on 40+ hours of play.  This is one of the reasons that I write "late" reviews that are in-depth. 

I passed on reviewing Afrika Korps because of the deadline to get the review in on some sites.  I had business travel, a busy work schedule, and could not play the game long enough to have confidence in my review.  Currently I have completed the game on "easy" and am working through the game on the next difficulty setting.  I was playing on "medium" and found the play balance to be way off.

But websites are under a lot of pressure to have "fast reviews."  Advertising is timed to game release, not a careful review of the game that takes a month to accomplish.  Even relatively simple strategy games take a lot of playing to determine if the game is fun, balanced, and what not.

I also play the game as released and not in pre-release form.

I'll probably have an Panzer Corps Afrika Corps review by mid to late September.  It will probably appear on grogheads because other sites are under more time pressure due to marketing and advertising revenues.

[LongBlade]

I'll probably have an Panzer Corps Afrika Corps review by mid to late September.  It will probably appear on grogheads because other sites are under more time pressure due to marketing and advertising revenues.

Our business model is probably unique in that the less money we make the better our product ;)

[Jarhead0331]

Our business model is probably unique in that the less money we make the better our product ;)

LoL! There has to be a good corporate grogheads motto in there somewhere!

"Grogheads: where our reviews are so thorough, your computer will be obsolete by the time you read them."

[W8taminute]

Aww, come on Jarhead. Don't say that that isn't precisely what is being done by every gaming magazine in the world. And when that is the case they mention it less than 50% of the time.

Just because everyone (or almost everyone) is cheating doesn't make it right.  We the consumer are depending on reviewers to give us their opinions on the real deal, not some pre release BETA.  Anyway, it is for precisely the reason you mention that I always look for gamer comments about games in various threads before I buy.  Grogheads being a good place to start.

[meadbelly]

Jarhead, why don't you post your feelings on the Wargamer? They currently have a active post ongoing concerning Out of Eight.

My opinions of the Out of 8 reviews are no secret, and I've mentioned them on the wargamer, and to James on more than one occasion, so you have no idea what you're talking about.  As far as why my opinions are stated here and not there at this time, its because many of James' reviews were posted on the wargamer and it would be: 1) in poor taste to criticize his reviews on that site, where I am still a moderator; and 2) in poor taste to criticize his reviews in a thread created to inform the public of his change in plans.  Contrary to your ridiculous insinuation, I wish Jim and Out of 8 all the best in the future.

No, you post your  backstabbing comments here and not there where Jim and others may read them.

Backstabbing? You think I'm afraid of other people reading my comments?  Have you ever actually read any of my comments?  You either don't know me very well, or you're just a complete moron.

When you had your problems with losing your job and martial problems, everyone wrote in their positive support and gave you encouragement that things would get better. When Jim writes he is going to stop written reviews, you in turn jump on here and take pot shots at the way he does his reviews because its not the way you do reviews.

I do not really see what one has to do with the other, but you should probably be in therapy, because you hold some serious grudges.  I mean really, you've been holding this in since 2010?  Let it go dude...

Oh you are real clever, doing the old lawyer double talk where on one hand you criticize his reviews, his way of doing reviews and even have audacity the  question his work ethic stating his articles "did not require as much of a commitment of time and effort" but then you end you comments stating that your "sad to see Out of 8 go" and "I hope we see Jaq making a successful switch to a new format".  Its the old trick were a person rips someone yet then follows up saying something nice about them so people can't say what a jerk you are.

Again, hold many grudges?  "The old lawyer double talk?"  Sorry for stating my opinions, last time I checked, I was entitled to them.  When I want to "rip someone," I do it and do not feel the need to add a nice sentiment.  For instance, you're an asshole.  See, there was no nice comment following that statement.  Oh the audacity!

It one thing to take shots at some unknown gaming company executive because you don't like the way they conduct business but Jim is a member of the wargaming community. I know there  were some at the Wargamer you did not get along with yet I have not seen them take shots you after you left that site but you can't seem to match their level of professionalism.

You've NEVER seen someone take a shot at me? Damn, you really are a moron. Seriously, what rock did you crawl out from under?

So go ahead Jarhead post your comments concerning Jim's way of reviewing over at the Wargamer. Your certainly quick with the comments over here. Better yet link this post over at the Wagamer and let all of them form their own opinions about you. Go ahead, walk the the talk.

I am done with this site. I think 99% of the people on this site are great folk but I will no longer participate here because to put it simply: I don't like Jarhead. He grated on my nerves at the Wargamer and he does so here. I think he is a loud mouth opinionated bully who thinks very highly of himself and I want to be far away from him.

And I think you're a dickhead who will not be missed.

Jarhead, you're an asshole who I won't miss, either. This is precisely the kind of hypocrisy that I left Wargamer over. And it's precisely the reason why I won't be returning to grogheads, either.

And while you are patting yourself on your back about your attitude, I'll point out that you are the only cheesedick who felt important enough to come onto my Hello I'm Here thread and whine that you hadn't been named as a positive contributor. You might want to consider whatever hole your ego contains that requires that kind of drama queen bullshit.

[Jarhead0331]

^Is this absolutely necessary?  Especially in light of the fact that Fighting Farmer has apologized and we have both moved on from the episode? 

[Gusington]

WTF??

[Staggerwing]

Something's not right here. JH isn't even in Mead's Hello thread. Mead, if that's really you (and not some hacker) please drop one of us a line. This seems out of character (as much as the internet allows one to know others) for you.

[bayonetbrant]

Everybody please lay off the personal attacks.

Look, the mods aren't perfect.  There are times when we might over-react to something, and there are times when we're going to feel perfectly justified in going after people, even if it doesn't look that way to you.

If you have a problem with something someone said, please take it up in a PM.  Broad public announcements do no one any favors and tend to reflect poorly on all involved.  We're a small community and that means there's not a lot of room to hide here if someone is on your nerves.  Before you post anything that's aimed at a specific person, please take a deep breath, walk away from the computer, get laid, do yoga, whatever, and then come back and decide if you still want to do it.

We've all had our 'going after someone' moments - ask Hairog how much of a pain I can be when I set my mind to it - but the mods/admins are trying our best to get better every day.  We're not perfect, but we're trying.

[Steelgrave]

Personal attacks of this sort are ridiculous and uncalled for. While I don't agree with the Wargamer's approach on banning anyone who is critical of a mod, taking shots at someone based on your own very limited interpretation of what they've said (or what you think they meant) and making it personal is childish. This is further evidence of the bravery found hidden behind a computer screen, where people feel free to be vulgar or attack someone via the internet when they would never behave so in person. Ugh....

[bayonetbrant]

I gotta agree that this seems out of character for Meadbelly. Can I get a PM explaining what the hell's going on?  It's especially troubling b/c, as JH pointed out, this was settled privately btw him and FF

(Edit... hit 'return' too fast...)

In any event attacking anyone is uncalled for, esp part of the staff.