X-COM Preorders

[TheCommandTent]

I want the damned end game bug fixed.  I'm on ironman so there's no going back.  Not going to be happy if I've played all the way up to this point, lost only 2 guys in the whole process and now can't finish the game.

I for one wish to thank my Grognard overfellowlords, for volunteering to find the game killing bugs before my birthday next month.  ;D

(If I have to wait a month+ to play it, I might as well look on the bright side.  ;))

I like you way of thinking.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Whereas I have an urge to give you both atomic wedgies.


Anyway, here are some threads on the bug.

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?157711-Mission-Operation-Avenger-(Temple-Ship-Assault)

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?154761-Unable-to-advance-on-the-last-mission

[airboy]

I regret purchasing X-Com for full price.  I'm probably going to resell it on Amazon or Ebay this week.  I may rebuy when it is $10 or less.

This is a very poor tactical turn based combat simulator.  There are no action points.  You do one thing (fire once, reload, etc.....) and you are done.  In a good tactical turn based game you have limited action points but you can do more than one thing in a turn.

I hunt.  Had a successful duck hunt last weekend.  I can acquire a target, fire, kill, acquire another target, fire, kill and reload all within 60 seconds (and I'm 50).  In the current X-com you don't have action points and your combat choices are very limited.

You cannot choose the people to take on missions (it is done for you).  Your load-out choices are absurdly limited.  I can't take a scope and a grenade?  Huh?  I also cannot pick up equipment from dead or wounded team members.

Every alien weapon shatters when they are killed if you do not tazer them.  Huh???  A decision on whether or not to use an area attack to preserve alien weapons is now gone.  The weapons will shatter anyway so I might as well hit them with a rocket or grenade.  I have to get within kissing range to subdue an alien.

Facing is irrelevant.  There is no "check 6."  You don't have to cover your rear or face outward.  You have perfect situational awareness if they are in a specific diameter.  All of the decisions on facings are basically gone.

The thought process of who to take on missions, the equipment to take, etc.... is severely limited.  You have only one base so base placement and how you build the base to handle counter-attacks is also gone. 

Because your load outs are so stupidly limited you cannot use indirect fire to clear a line of sight for other squad members to fire.  Your laser and plasma weapons do not blow away obsticles because you cannot fire multiple times.

You don't have the really difficult combat choices of how to use your action points.  Snap shots?  Aimed shots?  Save action points for opportunity fire?  Automatic burst?  All of those choices are gone.  Your load outs are also totally limited by the predefined characters that are (selected for you by the AI) going on a mission.

Combat maps are tiny.  No real decisions can be made on flanking, covering fire, etc..... because of the small maps and discarding action points.

The strategic choices are even worse.  No decisions on placing multiple bases.  No multiple skyrangers.  Not even the small number of decisions for aerial combat.

So few turn based tactical combat games have been released in the last decade that the reviewers don't even notice their absence.  If you compare this game to the original X-Com or the vastly improved combat system of Jagged Alliance 2 - you will see that the tactical and strategic choices you have are just weaker.

Aliens also don't panic and drop their weapons.  Your troops panic but the aliens are fearless.

I could go on (really) but you get my drift.  What I'm irritated about is the totally crap reviews (85%+) that did not warn me about the crap tactical combat.  It is totally move within a reaction zone and the aliens scatter and go to ground - every single time.  I read the reviews before buying but they were next to useless for anyone who actually has played tactical combat games.

[tgb]

airboy:

Some of your gripes are valid (facing, loadout issues).  Some are so far off the mark I wonder how much time you spent actually playing the game instead of bitching about it.  For example:

"This is a very poor tactical turn based combat simulator." - Neither 2K nor Firaxis ever claimed that this was going to be a "combat simulator".  Unless you are from the future and have boots on the ground experience fighting alien invaders, no one can say how much of a simulation this is.  Are you from the future?

"There are no action points.  You do one thing (fire once, reload, etc.....) and you are done."- True, but this was hardly a secret prior to release.  Did you read or view any of the dozens of preview articles or videos that were made available in the last 3 months? Or was this a complete shock to you when looking at Steam one day and you said "There's a new XCOM?  Here's my money".

"You cannot choose the people to take on missions." Yes, you can.

" you cannot use indirect fire to clear a line of sight for other squad members to fire.".  Again, wrong.  Perhaps since you never bothered to find out how to choose your own squad members to take on a mission, you never brought a Heavy along. 

"Combat maps are tiny. " - In the beginning, perhaps.  Since you apparently didn't play for more than half an hour, you never encountered bigger maps.

"No real decisions can be made on flanking, covering fire, etc." - Wrong again. Flanking, covering fire, and suppression are all in the game, the latter two as abilities squad members earn as they earn promotions.

" Not even the small number of decisions for aerial combat." - Bzzzt. Wrong. Tactics for interceptors are unlocked through research.  In fact, one (AIM) appears pretty early on, which further convinces me that you played for half an hour at the most.

"Your troops panic but the aliens are fearless." - At least you're consistent in your ignorance about the game.  Aliens may not drop weapons (your squad members don't drop them either, but you may not have played enough to see someone panic), and it may not say "Panic!", but aliens certainly lose morale and retreat.

" I read the reviews before buying" - I call bullshit on this one.  Just about every review/preview I read mentioned at least one of the points you are justified in criticizing, which is why most are in the 85% range (your number) and not 95-100%.

Look -XCOM is not perfect.  No game is, other than something almost 20 years old seen through rose-colored glasses. You know the saying "Everyone is entitled to an opinion"?  No.  Everyone is entitled to an INFORMED opinion, which yours is not in many ways.

[jomni]

Regarding action points, there are action points.  Just two for each turn.  :) 
You can track-shoot-track-shoot-move in real life.  But at what time intervals?  Maybe XCOM time intervals are so short that you can only have limited actions.
Or maybe because you're a skilled shooter.  Well skilled shooters in the game do get to shoot more than once or do other actions during the turn.

Also these limitations actually make the game more challenging yet streamlined.  This does not make a bad tactical game in my books as it actually makes you think about things more than before.  It makes your choice of action doubly important.  I guess Airboy is the type who wants flexibility in load out and spending action points. He doesn't want to be stuck with only a few options which is understandable.

I think this simplification is crucial to the game franchise.  If they were to make a hard-core turn-based tactical game, then it would only have a smaller audience as compared to what we have now.  It will just get a limited following like the previous XCOM sequels and derivatives which I never did bother getting.

[W8taminute]

If they were to make a hard-core turn-based tactical game, then it would only have a smaller audience as compared to what we have now.

jomni I agree with you 100%.


I appreciate a complex strategy game as much as the next grognard however I'm also perfectly happy with relaxing with a simpler tactical game like XCOM.  Once in a while time just doesn't permit sitting in front of a computer for 3 hours just to plot one turn. 

For sheer entertainment value and moderate brainpower challenge XCOM: Enemy Unknown is scoring very high points for me.  I understand it might not be WitP: Admirals Edition and I'm fine with that.  When I'm ready to play something more complex I'll happily play Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin.  (If only I could get it to run on Vista).

[LongBlade]

If you want to disable the various logos when Xcom starts

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?150666-Here-is-how-to-disable-intro-movies-for-Xcom

Thank you. Most devs give you a get-out-of-jail-card but I was too lazy to look for it.

[LongBlade]

airboy:

Some of your gripes are valid (facing, loadout issues).  Some are so far off the mark I wonder how much time you spent actually playing the game instead of bitching about it.  For example:

"This is a very poor tactical turn based combat simulator." - Neither 2K nor Firaxis ever claimed that this was going to be a "combat simulator".  Unless you are from the future and have boots on the ground experience fighting alien invaders, no one can say how much of a simulation this is.  Are you from the future?

Let's slow this roll a bit.

Airboy is a highly experienced gamer and reviewer.

He genuinely does not like Xcom and that's fine. I agree it's not a tactical simulator nor a good predictor of future alien combat, but I think we can agree to disagree without getting personal about it.

[tgb]

My reply perhaps was a little heated, but it annoys me when half of his argument is made up of non-facts.

[airboy]

My reply perhaps was a little heated, but it annoys me when half of his argument is made up of non-facts.

I read every review that had been posted on the review list from www.gamefaqs.com prior to purchase.  I searched around and read additional reviews (gamespot was not on the gamefaq list). 

I have played the game for about 10 hours.  I also read the manual (such as it is).  Also read many of the board posts prior to purchasing.

You can agree or disagree with my opinions - but they are not flippant.

I also agree with Longblade that if it was a decent tactical combat game or if the strategic game had any significance that the game would have a smaller audience.

If you really like turn-based, squad level tactical combat AND you really like earlier games such as the original X-Com or Jagged Alliance then this game will probably be a disappointment to you.

[Jarhead0331]

I'm not really sure why so many people are upset that its not EXACTLY like the original X-Com.  When I want to play the original X-Com, guess what I play?  The original X-Com.  It is such a good game, and was so far ahead of its time, that I think it has aged very well and is still a very enjoyable game.  The new XCOM is a different game, and while there are good things about it and some not so good things about it, overall, I am enjoying the experience.  I'm glad we have two games to play now, that actually play out differently, rather than two games that play out more or less the same.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

My reply perhaps was a little heated, but it annoys me when half of his argument is made up of non-facts.

If you really like turn-based, squad level tactical combat AND you really like earlier games such as the original X-Com or Jagged Alliance then this game will probably be a disappointment to you.

Those are two of my favourite games of all time AND I've been having a tonne of fun playing the new XCOM (at least until the end game bug.  I read on some forums that their might be an alien stuck in a roof beam that I can't see so I'm just going to go and psi blast the map, bit by bit). 

I'd love to see a deep, turn based tactical combat game.  If they could smooth out some of the rough edges and late game play balance of 7.62mm and use that engine in a game with a decent story and overlay, I'd probably never stop playing it.  Having said that, I played the XCOM demo, knew what I was getting from then full game going in, and feel like I've gotten my money's worth out of it.   It may not been a deep tactical TBS but it's still lots of fun to play.

[tgb]

My reply perhaps was a little heated, but it annoys me when half of his argument is made up of non-facts.

I read every review that had been posted on the review list from www.gamefaqs.com prior to purchase.  I searched around and read additional reviews (gamespot was not on the gamefaq list). 

I have played the game for about 10 hours.  I also read the manual (such as it is).  Also read many of the board posts prior to purchasing.

You can agree or disagree with my opinions - but they are not flippant.

I also agree with Longblade that if it was a decent tactical combat game or if the strategic game had any significance that the game would have a smaller audience.

If you really like turn-based, squad level tactical combat AND you really like earlier games such as the original X-Com or Jagged Alliance then this game will probably be a disappointment to you.

How do you account for the fact that half of your opinions are based on "issues" that don't really exist?

[airboy]

tgb:
I don't think that a loadout that gives me one grenade and one or two rockets is sufficient for suppression fire or to remove terrain obstacles for fire by team members.  With so few area of effect weapons, it is unwise to use them to open up field of fire lanes.

In the original X-Com and in JA2 and other games you have enough action points and loadouts to use fire to suppress or to destroy terrain options.  With the highly limited loadout wasting a grenade or rocket to blow up terrain is (in my opinion) unwise.

You largely agreed with my other observations.

If you know how one can select specific team members for away drops I would appreciate the insights.  I read the manual twice looking for it.  I tried other logical control options and could not get the team members to change.

I'm glad you are enjoying the game - but I'm not for reasons I mentioned.

[Arctic Blast]

I could go on (really) but you get my drift.  What I'm irritated about is the totally crap reviews (85%+) that did not warn me about the crap tactical combat.  It is totally move within a reaction zone and the aliens scatter and go to ground - every single time.  I read the reviews before buying but they were next to useless for anyone who actually has played tactical combat games.

You're disappointed by the game, and that's perfectly fine. No game is going to be for everyone. But here's the problem...you seem to think that every review that disagrees with you is magically crap. So the opinions of the reviewers (and reviews really do in large part boil down to opinion) are apparently wrong because they don't mesh with your own. That's a fairly silly conclusion to draw. Hell, after I play about 10 hours in to Fallout 3 or New Vegas, I get completely bored and stop. Doesn't mean that the reviews praising those games were wrong, it just means my own opinion differs.

Beyond that, this game isn't a hard core tactical simulator. It isn't trying to be. What it really feels like, at least to me, is a computer approximation of a tactical minis table top skirmish game. And it nails that pretty effectively. I certainly understand a lot of the issues you have with it, and I share a few of them (I'd love to see the possibility of adding a 2nd Skyranger, for example), but a fair number of them do simply seem to be rehashes of things from the first game. For example :

...Your load outs are also totally limited by the predefined characters that are (selected for you by the AI) going on a mission.

Which differs in what way from the original, where their randomly determined stats at arrival at your base pretty much determined what sort of gear you were going to equip them with? You didn't have any control over the type of trooper who would arrive in that game, either.

If you really like turn-based, squad level tactical combat AND you really like earlier games such as the original X-Com or Jagged Alliance then this game will probably be a disappointment to you.

And this couldn't be more wrong if you tried. This isn't a black or white issue. I am fully capable of enjoying both the original XCom and Jagged Alliance (as I do) AND enjoying this game (again, as I do).