Wargamer.com sob story on Boardgamegeek

[bayonetbrant]

Let me guess.."Your honour...she SAID she was eighteen!"

Which is why I prefer them to be at least 28 ;)

Zone of Creepiness in age differences

[Michael Dorosh]

I thought the articles, reviews, aar's and other content at wargamer.com had improved since Curt had taken over - so in that sense I'm sorry to see him go.  I thought the forums award thing was a little odd - but basically harmless.  The forums had some intersting types to say the least.  One in particular has some serious anger management issues and many other posters were just infantile - so I didn't frequent the forums very often.

Hope they can weather yet another storm.

Your capsule description could be applied at times to most of the forums dedicated to conflict simulation - the last three or four pages of this thread are also an indication of why Curtis probably thought strict moderation was a good direction for the Wargamer to be going...

As I pointed out over at boardgamegeek in my thoughts there on the subject, he definitely has enthusiasm towards the subject and the hobby/industry, and is not unskilled as a writer. I think one can extend it pretty easily to detect a certain passion for the subject, but conclude that it wasn't always applied appropriately.

I had dealings with him off-forum regarding some writing projects. I won't betray any confidences, but my impression of him was that he was either young, or had some maturing to do (someone here mentioned "ego", and whether you call it "ego" or confidence, he was self-assured in the extreme), and I don't think that is talking out of turn, since his farewell letter (and the act of posting it in multiple locations) pretty much reveal that.

He poured a great deal of energy and thought into what he was doing - it's too bad for him it didn't work out. I am usually in favour of strong moderation on message boards - when done appropriately - but I think he was doing as much harm as good in his methods. I'd disagree that the goofy awards etc. were "harmless". Sure, users can ignore them, but they can also persuade people that the forum is juvenile and not worth their time, and they'll simply find one with an atmosphere they prefer. Certainly, the way they were "bestowed", with the site admin talking about them as if they were actual military achievements, had a greater tendency to polarize people than if they simply sprang up in a user's profile page.

I hope he turns things around as he obviously has a lot to contribute. People in life tend to make their own luck so I would not be surprised to see his name somewhere else - or, perhaps, if he's clever, adopt a new online name, lose the attitude, and adopt a new online persona that is more low-key, and start over. He may be here already for all we know.

[Martok]

Jarhead is an aggressive orator and so am I.

does this mean you both use your teeth? or you dont ask for permission?

HA! 

My thanks to undercovergeek for my first laugh-out-loud moment of the weekend!  :D 

Ja....Ja...Ja....Jesus!!!!

I hate it when they make me stutter!!!

If you do it in the right place, it's called motorboating.

...And my thanks to SDR for my second.  :) 

[son_of_montfort]

Mike Dorosh,

I took great issue with what you posted on BGG regarding this site. I have been a longtime fan and several year contributor and member to BGG and I always cross-posted by review videos here and there. So I don't see any reason for a ginned up competition between BGG and "those blog review sites" like you stated on BGG. As a community, we are stronger for cooperation between different types of media and I have actively pushed for a link between BGG and Grogheads. I don't make any money off of my videos, and I rarely get review copies (most of what I review, I buy myself), so this is a labor of love and I have no interest in withholding shared information from another active board gaming community.

Just an FYI.

[Michael Dorosh]

Mike Dorosh,

I took great issue with what you posted on BGG regarding this site. I have been a longtime fan and several year contributor and member to BGG and I always cross-posted by review videos here and there. So I don't see any reason for a ginned up competition between BGG and "those blog review sites" like you stated on BGG. As a community, we are stronger for cooperation between different types of media and I have actively pushed for a link between BGG and Grogheads. I don't make any money off of my videos, and I rarely get review copies (most of what I review, I buy myself), so this is a labor of love and I have no interest in withholding shared information from another active board gaming community.

Just an FYI.

I have no idea what you're referring to, but it's certainly not anything I said about Grogheads.com. In fact, I posted the opposite of what you are saying.

If you want to start an inter-forum war - which I think would be a pointless endeavour - you'd do well to get your facts straight, which would necessitate leaving my name out of it.

In the interest of clarity:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10423343#10423343

The only comments I made about this site:

Thanks for that. I've posted there once or twice as well but had quite forgotten about it. They seem to have kind of the same approach - i.e. "blog" style news stories about industry/hobby news, linked to a general interest style forum. I think BGG benefits from being a smaller part of a larger whole.

...

Those sites obviously cater to a clientelle with an appetite for that kind of atmosphere, so again, not trying to make this a competition. I just haven't found a lot compelling about them.

Not sure, then, what it is you think you read.

You may be confused by my later comments about Wargamer.com.

Back on the topic of wargamer.com - my renewed interest in the site in the last few months was when I noticed some of their reviews. I've posted responses to those reviews, but, at least for the products I've been interested in, there hasn't been a lot of discussion. Even the reviewers never came back to talk about their own reviews.

I didn't realize they were being paid. Don't know if I was responding to paid reviews or not. But I wonder the incentive is less to come back and "chat" once the money is in the pocket.

Not seeing a lot of engagement, I stopped reading the reviews.

Again, not seeing how this relates to Grogheads, or what it has to do with a "competition". I don't see any. I posted my opinion on reading reviews at Wargamer.com that were identified as being done by paid reviewers.  The comments may have application here in the sense that responses to reviews are just as likely to go unread or generate as little real discussion. A look at the "feedback" forum here at Grogheads will show relatively little engagement between authors and readers, compared to other areas of the site. That's not a criticism, it's an observation, and it's certainly not a phenomenon confined to any particular site. I think it's too bad, frankly, that so many well-written reviews generate so little discussion despite the obvious fact that so many people have a lot of free time on their hands. I guess they feel they know more about motorboating and are more comfortable contributing their knowledge in that area of expertise.

[LongBlade]

The comments may have application here in the sense that responses to reviews are just as likely to go unread or generate as little real discussion. A look at the "feedback" forum here at Grogheads will show relatively little engagement between authors and readers, compared to other areas of the site. That's not a criticism, it's an observation, and it's certainly not a phenomenon confined to any particular site. I think it's too bad, frankly, that so many well-written reviews generate so little discussion despite the obvious fact that so many people have a lot of free time on their hands. I guess they feel they know more about motorboating and are more comfortable contributing their knowledge in that area of expertise.

We have several experts in motorboating. We have masters in Scottish Highland technique, Canadian Rockies technique, and Appalachian Trail technique amongst others. The fact that they are also experts in wargaming but prefer to agree in silence with our wargaming reviews should not be taken as a net minus in our forumites' quality.

[undercovergeek]

The comments may have application here in the sense that responses to reviews are just as likely to go unread or generate as little real discussion. A look at the "feedback" forum here at Grogheads will show relatively little engagement between authors and readers, compared to other areas of the site. That's not a criticism, it's an observation, and it's certainly not a phenomenon confined to any particular site. I think it's too bad, frankly, that so many well-written reviews generate so little discussion despite the obvious fact that so many people have a lot of free time on their hands. I guess they feel they know more about motorboating and are more comfortable contributing their knowledge in that area of expertise.

We have several experts in motorboating. We have masters in Scottish Highland technique, Canadian Rockies technique, and Appalachian Trail technique amongst others. The fact that they are also experts in wargaming but prefer to agree in silence with our wargaming reviews should not be taken as a net minus in our forumites' quality.

youll have to forgive Michael his sporradic posting, its not often he manages to get away from the perfect wargame he designed and established himself, and he finds it difficult to get away from his admin duties on his own perfectly done forum..... oh no thats right, im sorry, he doesnt do either, he instead visits other forums telling them what theyre doing wrong until they eventually slam the door in his face.

if he walked in on you and Mrs Dorosh he'd tell you what you were doing wrong

[Jarhead0331]

^Cut the guy some slack.  He's served in the Canadian Army since 1987 and he is still only a Corporal.  And Terminal Lances think they have it bad?

[undercovergeek]

i honestly respect anything he writes, and read with interest topics Michael posts about in which he is an expert or at least a very informed hobbyist - but for me personally, writing on a forum is a priviliege afforded me by being a guest of its owners - it doesnt give me a right to pass opinion on its maintenance, style, running or the other inhabitants here

[son_of_montfort]

Mike, you managed to cut out the part of that quote that irritated me (in bold below). I'm not sure, "in the interest of clarity" why you would remove a key piece of your quote:

Thanks for that. I've posted there once or twice as well but had quite forgotten about it. They seem to have kind of the same approach - i.e. "blog" style news stories about industry/hobby news, linked to a general interest style forum. I think BGG benefits from being a smaller part of a larger whole.

Ironic, given all the complaints from people who feel neglected by BGG. I really don't want to reopen that debate, but I think there is a very useful resource on this site, and it benefits by its relationship to the larger whole in many ways that are only made obvious by looking at what goes on at other sites.

Those sites obviously cater to a clientelle with an appetite for that kind of atmosphere, so again, not trying to make this a competition. I just haven't found a lot compelling about them.

The "what goes on at other sites" bit followed by the "those sites cater to a clientele with an appetite for that kind of atmosphere" was a implication that there is some sort of turf war between our "sorts of sites" and BGG. I actively participate there (i.e. enriching the BGG experience with content drawn directly from Grogheads) and it is the opinion of the management staff here that sharing with places like BGG, Consimworld, and 2d6.org makes all of us stronger.

If you are referring to the forums - I do not find the BGG forums to be any more eclectic, erudite or welcoming than here. In fact, I've seen some of the most flagrant "protect the turf" mentality coming out of some of the BGG wargaming forums (mention Kickstarter there and how it is better than P500, I dare you).

Anyway, I was - perhaps - too sensitive. Given that I am the typical liaison between Grogheads and BGG, I don't like my efforts to be so dismissed like that. Odd you claim I was trying to start an inter-forum war, when it was you - in fact - that posted about us and our actions on BGG without knowing a damn thing about them.

[LongBlade]

for me personally, writing on a forum is a priviliege afforded me by being a guest of its owners - it doesnt give me a right to pass opinion on its maintenance, style, running or the other inhabitants here

Sure it does. Just don't expect us to listen too much. Especially if you're not a certified expert in one of the nine classical styles of motorboating.

[undercovergeek]

for me personally, writing on a forum is a priviliege afforded me by being a guest of its owners - it doesnt give me a right to pass opinion on its maintenance, style, running or the other inhabitants here

Sure it does. Just don't expect us to listen too much. Especially if you're not a certified expert in one of the nine classical styles of motorboating.

i can show you what i can do with my index finger and my lips if you want

[Staggerwing]

Is that what all the kids are now calling 'Librarian Style'?

[Jarhead0331]

for me personally, writing on a forum is a priviliege afforded me by being a guest of its owners - it doesnt give me a right to pass opinion on its maintenance, style, running or the other inhabitants here

Sure it does. Just don't expect us to listen too much. Especially if you're not a certified expert in one of the nine classical styles of motorboating.

i can show you what i can do with my index finger and my lips if you want

[Yskonyn]

for me personally, writing on a forum is a priviliege afforded me by being a guest of its owners - it doesnt give me a right to pass opinion on its maintenance, style, running or the other inhabitants here

Sure it does. Just don't expect us to listen too much. Especially if you're not a certified expert in one of the nine classical styles of motorboating.

i can show you what i can do with my index finger and my lips if you want

At last it's getting interesting again!

More tricks with fingers please!