Breaking: Petraeus Resigns

[Bison]

Iraq was won.  The SOFA was lost and that is the difference you see today. 

[bayonetbrant]

^OK, but is now really the time for an opportunistic pile-on?

Now is the only time that dissenting voices have been able to break through the wall of effusive praise.

[Bison]

Bullshit.  Petraeus was a target before this story too.  You might think his leadership in Iraq and afterward was overrated.  I disagree.  This behavior is garbage and unacceptable.  However while it diminishes the man it does not diminish everything he did for this nation and its Armed Forces.   


*I'm talking about Petraeus' behavior in having an affair*

[bayonetbrant]

Iraq was won.  The SOFA was lost and that is the difference you see today. 

I agree that the SOFA was lost, but I'm wondering by what metrics it was established that Iraq was "won".  This is probably a separate thread, but let's face it - there was never a terribly succinct and over-arching mission statement for the invasion of Iraq against which to judge success / failure. 
We did a lot of great things there, and certainly more than most people want to give the US military credit for, but I don't know that we can assess whether or not we "won" for at least another 10-15 years, if that.

[Gusington]

I just don't like to see anyone kicked when he is already down. And that's what is happening.

[Bison]

Iraq was won.  The SOFA was lost and that is the difference you see today. 

I agree that the SOFA was lost, but I'm wondering by what metrics it was established that Iraq was "won".  This is probably a separate thread, but let's face it - there was never a terribly succinct and over-arching mission statement for the invasion of Iraq against which to judge success / failure. 
We did a lot of great things there, and certainly more than most people want to give the US military credit for, but I don't know that we can assess whether or not we "won" for at least another 10-15 years, if that.

I don't disagree.  The problem is we won't get the 10-15 year metrics if there had been a SOFA put into place that would have kept American power filling the vacuum.  The failure to secure a SOFA, for whatever reason or rational, essentially changed the long term prospects dramatically.

[LongBlade]

I just don't like to see anyone kicked when he is already down. And that's what is happening.

TBH we're not kicking him over the subject of his downfall - zipper control.

We're having what I view to be a legitimate discussion over his performance in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't see being critical of that as kicking him.

Kicking him would be to trot out all the salacious facts about his fun under his desk. I have no interest in reviewing that.

But I still contend he got lucky in flipping Al-Anbar. Had that not gone our way we'd still be there.

The total withdrawal from Iraq snatched certain defeat from whatever victory we may have achieved there.

[Bison]

I just don't like to see anyone kicked when he is already down. And that's what is happening.

I'm disgusted by the behavior, but there is some serious political stink on this one that trandscends his marital indiscretions.

[LongBlade]

there is some serious political stink on this one that trandscends his marital indiscretions.

Every time I turn on the TV something else takes us down a different turn.

This thing has more tentacles than a Cthulhu festival. I'm afraid it's just the tip of the iceberg and Petraeus is just one small part of it.

[Gusington]

I'm not talking about anyone here, I'm talking about people like Oliver Stone coming out and saying Petraeus always sucked. That is kicking him when he is down.

[LongBlade]

I'm not talking about anyone here, I'm talking about people like Oliver Stone coming out and saying Petraeus always sucked. That is kicking him when he is down.

Well, Stone can suck big green Groginati $#%^!

[Bison]

I don't think bringing the Sunni leadership to the political table was all luck.  Sure the right place, the right people, the right time were involved but the overall effort was not merely luck.  It was promises, money, security, friendships offered and a hundred other reasons but luck didn't drive the strategy.  The same things that have driven outcomes of political war since the dawn of time.

[Gusington]

That's better LB. For the record I think Petraeus made his own luck, like Bison says above. And wtf is going on your  avatar?

[Bison]

Rorschach from the Watchmen.

Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of good men like my father or President Truman. Decent men who believed in a day's work for a day's pay. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those liberals and intellectuals and smooth-talkers... and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.

Great graphic novel.

Back to the discussion folks.  Back to the discussion.

[LongBlade]

I don't think bringing the Sunni leadership to the political table was all luck.  Sure the right place, the right people, the right time were involved but the overall effort was not merely luck.  It was promises, money, security, friendships offered and a hundred other reasons but luck didn't drive the strategy.  The same things that have driven outcomes of political war since the dawn of time.

I'm sure there was some skill, but I'm not convinced that the number of the surge really turned the tide as many claim. Maybe it pushed them over the edge. Or maybe it was the right bribe. I dunno. Maybe he convinced them we'd stick around until they gave up.

Anyway, as long as we're heaping more dung onto this oscillating propeller, I would like to bring up the question of privacy...

Here's a thought that might make even the most conscientious e-mail user nervous: "When the CIA director cannot hide his activities online, what hope is there for the rest of us?"

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/14/tech/petraeus-email-privacy/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

For a much longer list of questions as to what might be happening and whether it is appropriate: http://mobile.theweek.com/article/index/236326/what-the-heck-fbi