War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition...what's stopping you?

[Tuna]

I was thinking about this thread some more today.

I think what this game would benefit from (which it won't, but maybe a future game?) is a reduction in scope.  There is just too much information that needs to be managed for one person.

My idea for a game like this would be to borrow some ideas from the board game Pacific War.  Specifically, rather than fighting the whole game out over the whole map using every unit I would compress things down into operations.  The player could pick or design the operation they wanted to conduct, the units he wanted to use form those that are available, and then the game would scope to that area.  Units would flow into or out of the operational area as required, handled by the AI. 

Maybe the way I would design this would be to separate the map into subsets.  The player would pick his subset area (Coral Sea, Guadalcanal, Midway, Philippines, etc.) and then pick an objective from a list- seize Port Moresby, seize Manilla, etc.  A list of available forces would be generated from the database dependent on what had happened previously, or what is not being used by the AI at a strategic "off map" level that the player wouldn't control.  He would allocate those forces in broad ways and then the game would start with the units on the map and the game would run until the objective was met, or not met over some given time. 

I'm not talking about a scripted campaign, but more where the player directs operational objectives and the game scales down to whatever he dictates.  Meanwhile the AI handles higher level strategic moves and the war evolves on those lines.  Perhaps the player gives broad strategic objectives from a list, and the game does macro-level wargaming under the hood that influences the rest of the game.

Anyway, the idea is to make the game more manageable at a level consistent with a single commander.  Even current WitP would work if it would automate and streamline much of the work. Things like building task forces, training units, describing search arcs, resupplying outer areas, ASW patrols, heck even submarine warfare; there is a lot that is just too in the weeds.

Guadalcanal is a very nice size for someone who does not want to get overwhelmed by Grand Campaign. It's a lot longer than Coral Sea!

[jomni]

Guadalcanal is a very nice size for someone who does not want to get overwhelmed by Grand Campaign. It's a lot longer than Coral Sea!

Also a great PBEM scenario.  I used to just play this one to death.  It's like a sequel / remake of Uncommon Valor.

[Staggerwing]

Guadalcanal is a very nice size for someone who does not want to get overwhelmed by Grand Campaign. It's a lot longer than Coral Sea!

Also a great PBEM scenario.  I used to just play this one to death.  It's like a sequel / remake of Uncommon Valor.

How close is the comparison? I have a copy of UV somewhere I found on a store bargain bin a decade ago (yes kids, once upon a time Matrix games were also sold in mall stores) and if it would make a good intro I'll install it before trying out a turn or two of WITP:AE.

[Swatter]

I stopped playing AE because the AI simply can't handle the GC and I don't have the will to play it via email. I am not going to play the damn thing daily for the next six years it would take to play it that way.

I very much enjoyed the game after I got over the learning cliff and early game micromanagement mess. Unfortunately as I played I began to realize the AI was not putting up a decent fight and mismanaging its resources. I loaded my save for the other side and have never played the game again. The AI was just doing extremely dumb stuff. I will not invest that much time into a game with a flawed AI.

[Yskonyn]

Swatter that raises my eyebrows, cause the most common thing I read about playing the AI is that it absolutely aces at logistics handling and due to the scope of the game playing against a Human opponent who leaves gaps here and there makes for a more Dynamic game.
Did you play on anything other than historic difficulty?

[jomni]

Guadalcanal is a very nice size for someone who does not want to get overwhelmed by Grand Campaign. It's a lot longer than Coral Sea!

Also a great PBEM scenario.  I used to just play this one to death.  It's like a sequel / remake of Uncommon Valor.

How close is the comparison? I have a copy of UV somewhere I found on a store bargain bin a decade ago (yes kids, once upon a time Matrix games were also sold in mall stores) and if it would make a good intro I'll install it before trying out a turn or two of WITP:AE.

Basically the same gamepaly wise.  UV has more scensrio variants. But AE sure has better graphics and more realistic results.   The sunk carriers and other ships in UV respawns.

[Rayfer]

I don't have the AE edition but do have the original. Both are suffering some Windows 10 issues that are covered on the Matrix forums. For some reason there is a long 5-6 second delay from when you click a button to when the next window opens or order is issued. It permeates all aspects of the game. To myself, and some others, it makes the game unplayable. The solutions posted on the Matrix forums require some sort of manually inputted code changes that I just couldn't make sense of (yes, I am quite unskilled in this regard). Hopefully a future patch will fix this issue, but for now it remains unplayable for me.

[Skoop]

I've always said the making AE with out the friendly AI controled zones was a huge mistake.  I often think about firing up old witp because it has this feature, but then I miss out on the AE improvements.   I would play this game to death if you could automate everything and get good results, leaving the player to focus on combat operations. 

[IronX]

The solutions posted on the Matrix forums require some sort of manually inputted code changes that I just couldn't make sense of (yes, I am quite unskilled in this regard).

It's pretty straight forward.

1. Make a new shortcut from the game file. That is, right click on the .exe file and select Shortcut.
2. Right click on the shortcut and select Properties.
3. Select the Shortcut tab.
4. In the box labelled Target:, add a space at the end of the line "War in the Pacific.exe"  and type -deepColor

That should fix the lag issue.

You can add other switches such as screen resolution e.g., -px2048 - py1152 and so on with a space between each switch.

[smittyohio]

I've always found i need to set the CPU affinity also to get it to run smoothly.

[Swatter]

Swatter that raises my eyebrows, cause the most common thing I read about playing the AI is that it absolutely aces at logistics handling and due to the scope of the game playing against a Human opponent who leaves gaps here and there makes for a more Dynamic game.
Did you play on anything other than historic difficulty?

The computer handles logistics. I wouldn't say it handles it better than humans, because humans have a better idea where not to send convoys. Humans react much faster to threats to supply lines and find alternate routes much better. The AI I played against lost many cargo ships because it couldn't react fast enough to bases that it lost that were across its supply line. There are tons of cargo ships, though, which is why most people overlook deficiencies in AI logistics handling.

In WitP:AE, taking bases in most cases requires a substantial combined arms operation. You must have airpower to cover the landings. You must have transports to haul the troops. You must have surface groups that cover the landings. You must have follow on convoys to keep everything supplied. And you must have the supply line afterwards under some sort of air umbrella that prevents that supply line from being cut off by air. The AI only gets the transports and cargo ships together, it doesn't coordinate those elements with air cover.

In my game the Allied AI attempted a historical invasion of Guadacanal (Yay for historicism!) where over a period of two months attempted to land perhaps 3 divisions on there. Fortunately, I already took the island and had surface ships waiting in harbor and substantial land and carrier based airpower in the region. They didn't support their landing with either surface combatants or air power. None. They lost everything. Anyone who has played AE knows just how many transports and support ships it takes to support a 3 division operation. They lost every single ship.

Finally, after the battle was decided (all ground forces were destroyed), the AI then sent in battleships, cruisers, and destroyers (unsupported by air) to contest control of the seas around Guadacanal. They lost it all. After the huge slaughter, I loaded up the save from the allied side to see where his carriers were. The AI had 5 USN heavy fleet carriers in freaking India.

Edit- You took issue with my use of the word "resources". I meant resources as in combat forces.

[undercovergeek]

i think even the AI designers have said they can only write scripts that say 'go take Rabaul', or 'go take Darwin' and ramp up the aggression to make it harder - but if youre there first the AI is stuck in the script trying to take Rabaul/Darwin

on the flip side

THAT is the reason i play PBEM because a human is far better at it as youve alluded to - theres no time limit to get dragged down by - why 6 years? KyzBP and me are currently scheduled to be done in 12 years - if were both still alive and the skynet hasnt taken us over whats the problem - i really like the thought of one of those long drawn out chess play by mail games that takes 2 old friends 30 years to do - were just doing it with a PC game

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

The caveat being that your opponent knows what he is doing.  Tuna and I started playing a PBEM game of the Guadalcanal campaign but I wasn't familiar enough with amphibious operations and simply could not get my troops to load (still have no idea how to get landing craft across an ocean) and I ended up conceding early out of sheer frustration.  Sorry about that Tuna.   I've been playing against the AI at my own pace and slowly learning (still can't get my Pt. Moresby invasion force on the transports though). 

[Tuna]

The caveat being that your opponent knows what he is doing.  Tuna and I started playing a PBEM game of the Guadalcanal campaign but I wasn't familiar enough with amphibious operations and simply could not get my troops to load (still have no idea how to get landing craft across an ocean) and I ended up conceding early out of sheer frustration.  Sorry about that Tuna.   I've been playing against the AI at my own pace and slowly learning (still can't get my Pt. Moresby invasion force on the transports though).

No problem I was just as noobish as you.. We were both asking a lot of questions.. I really thought you were kicking my ass Carrier wise.. a lot of my carriers were at Davey Jones Locker or hurting puppies... But it was a good 'learning' experience. I probably should've hit the AI after as well (Stupid World or Warships sucked me away!).

[Swatter]

I don't have the AE edition but do have the original. Both are suffering some Windows 10 issues that are covered on the Matrix forums. For some reason there is a long 5-6 second delay from when you click a button to when the next window opens or order is issued. It permeates all aspects of the game. To myself, and some others, it makes the game unplayable. The solutions posted on the Matrix forums require some sort of manually inputted code changes that I just couldn't make sense of (yes, I am quite unskilled in this regard). Hopefully a future patch will fix this issue, but for now it remains unplayable for me.

It is not a Windows 10 issue, I was getting it on Windows 7. It happens after you end the turn and combat is resolved and another turn begins. All you do is save the game right after the new turn begins and reload that save. The UI reaction speed then returns to normal.