Endless Space sale with free DLC

[bbmike]

Adding to all the recent 4x space talk, Endless Space is on sale! It's the only one left that I don't have so I'll grab it.

[RooksBailey]

I didn't care for it when it first came out, but these past four free expansions have nicely polished the base game.  I still believe it has another two full expansions to go before it will catch up with Sins or GalCiv 2 (and to be fair, those two franchises also needed multiple expansions to shine), but it is definitely on the right track. 

[undercovergeek]

i need to sink some time into this - i hate the thought that its just parked in steam not getting played

[Nefaro]

I didn't care for it when it first came out, but these past four free expansions have nicely polished the base game.  I still believe it has another two full expansions to go before it will catch up with Sins or GalCiv 2 (and to be fair, those two franchises also needed multiple expansions to shine), but it is definitely on the right track.

Odd.

I didn't think that either Sins or GalCiv2 had as much gameplay depth as Endless Space.  Perhaps the comparitively short & limited tech trees in both SotS and GalCiv are the primary offenders in my equation?  I also thought GalCiv2 & SoaSE's rather basic system & planetary setups were pretty short on substance too.  There are just more varied values & general 'stuff' about the planets in ES that make it a good game. 

In short, I think ES regularly gets shorted in the depth department when it has more variety than the others it was compared with.   It may just seem that way because the interface is so easy to pick up and play.

I'd say DW and ES are probably my favorite 4Xs right now for respective real-time and turn-based.  I've not played Armada 2526 yet, but I may pick up the Gold version on the next sale.

[RooksBailey]

In short, I think ES regularly gets shorted in the depth department when it has more variety than the others it was compared with.   It may just seem that way because the interface is so easy to pick up and play.

I agree with you that ES gets faaaar too much criticism than it deserves.  Yesterday when Blues News posted the announcement that the latest DLC was released, the first few comments were positive and along the lines of "I love this game and can't wait to play it again with the new content".  Well, after a few of those, the fanatical anti-ES trolls started to show up with their favorite - and confusing - criticism that ES is "soulless"...soulless!!!!  I am not even sure what that means in terms of a game, but it seems to be the favorite critique of the anti-ES crowd. 

Personally, I think ES has the most "soul" of all the 4X space games I played.  Most 4X games have a rather bland setting; whatever spice there is arrives with the backstory of the game's races (such as with Sins).  ES is quite different: it is the first 4X game in a long time to makes its sandbox setting interesting via the whole Endless angle and their Dust, something I suspect was heavily influenced by Herbert's Dune spice and Daniel's Metaplanetary grist (more the latter, I think).  I actually want to expand not just for the sake of conquering planets, but also in the hope of finding some Endless relics so I can learn a bit more about them.  Take that solid foundation, and add in the many excellent illustrations (some of the finest I've seen), the interesting characters & races, and the wonderful scientific explanations of the technology, and I think ES is one of the most fleshed-out 4X games out there.  It all feels real and anything but "soulless". 

However, I think this is also why so many people seem disappointed by ES.  ES's setting promises something wonderful and different, but in gameplay terms, it comes across as Galactic Civilizations 2.5.   :)  For example, people complain about the hands-off combat, something right out of GC2.  Personally, I love it because such a system allows the AI a fighting chance without cheating (albeit, I would like more planning control - something closer to Gratuitous Space Battles would be ideal), but people seemed to have expected something quite different.  Likewise, the tech tree is really GC2's tech tree: Lasers I, Lasers II, Lasers III....Sure, ES disguises this by giving everything a detailed tech description, but the truth is all the tech is linear just like in GC2.  Again, I think people were expecting a fun tech tree like in Sword of the Stars, where there are many different techs, each of which looks different and acts different and has its own "cool" factor.  Right now, I find it hard to get excited over Farms I (whatever the real name was) that gives me +1 food versus Farms 2 that give me +3 food.  Yawn.

I think it is also this rather linear tech tree that hurts the actual gameplay.  I remember Brad Wardell rather mercilessly attacking his own creation by saying that GalCiv 2 had far too many turns where nothing happens and you just keep clicking the next turn button.  He was correct.  Unfortunately, ES is guilty of this in spades.  Sure, they helped alleviate this by adding random events and exploration events (again, both right out of GalCiv 2  :o), but for the most part all the player does is queue up research, queue up system improvements and hope a battle breaks out to keep things interesting.  If the tech tree was more interesting, if the player actually had to consider the pros and cons of each tech (say, certain industrial tech would give you +3 industry, but cost -2 pop due to its dangerous nature) and plan accordingly, the time spent between battles wouldn't seem so empty.  Likewise, if the tech had some sort of dramatic effect on the planet's appearance, it would make things more interesting in between combat.  Lastly, the tech tree needs to be consolidated as I find myself scrapping tech, particularly farm tech, after I get midway up the tree because the newer tech is usually far superior to the older tech.  Every tech should be unique and worth keeping around for its own purposes (I think the lack of this points to a serious tech tree design flaw). 

Then there are those awful invasion mechanics.  They resemble medieval sieges more than anything spacey.  I am glad to hear the first paid expansion is going to be revamping them because they currently resemble little more than an afterthought game mechanic. 

Again, I like ES and I expect it will flower with the on-going development, but I also think SOME of the criticism is deserved.  However, like you said, it is not nearly as bad as some people would have you believe.  In fact, I had to laugh when one of the critics slammed ES and then said he considered GalCiv 2 to be his favorite 4X game.  Ummm...they are almost identical, dude.   ;D

[Nefaro]

I dunno.. I like the Tech Tree "Web" in Endless Space.  It forces you to think about which strands you take, and in what order, more than many other 4X games which only have a few Tabs with very linear advancement.  ES has more mix & match research than the others which are just picking a line and going straight up the one (or both) lines it has in it for a handful of techs.  The ES tech tree/web has more sideway movement options in it (if that makes any sense to ya - dunno how else to explain it), so that you often have moreoptions on where to go from the tech you just learned.   DW has a similar tech tree but at least there's a lot more in it.  Hell, even the latest StarDrive has the old tabbed & linear tech "tree".  I use the term "tree" loosely as many of them just resemble a few small separate baby trees.  ;D

So, yeah, I like how the ES tech tree has a lot more branches and options to it.  Pretty much all 4Xs have some tech unlocks that become outclassed by something higher up in the same line - that's nothing new. 

I also like their take on the combat, although I wish it had more depth to the CCG style card play.  While there are some techs that unlock the ability to use new "cards" in ship combat, I think it could use more cards and card effects in general.  I'd rather have something like this than a half-baked RTS that sucks, or the more simplistic and hands-off rock-paper-scissors of the GalCiv series.  I really didn't get into GalCiv much at all for being too simplistic, and think it's overrated, but that's just my preference in strategy games speaking. 

I'd recommend ES to anyone who enjoys turn-based 4X games.  Especially now that it's on sale for half-off.  It gets a bad rap from a few people, for reasons I don't really notice, or place a lot of value in, regarding games of this genre.   

[PanzersEast]

I still play and enjoy it very much.  The addons they have released has put more soul into it.  I have gotten over the combat in the game, really it is no different than other 4x games were it is automated or subjective.  I would like to be able to customize ships more and the tech tree can be a little confusing at times and the still needs a little more to get over the sterile feeling (but has come a long ways).  Overall I will keep this one on my HD as I enjoy it as a change of pace from Distant Worlds and StarDrive..... I have since ditched SoTS II.

Have to say kudos to the devs, they have been dedicated and continue to improve their product in good faith. 


PE

[Nefaro]

.... I have since ditched SoTS II.

What made you finally give up on SotS2?  I still haven't really checked it out much, despite having it for months now.

[Martok]

Well I pulled the trigger finally.  Probably won't have a chance to actually play it for a while yet, but at that price I couldn't resist anymore. 

Also, I applaud the way Amplitude has supported the game and interacted with its fans.  That, if nothing else, deserves my (financial) support. 

[PanzersEast]

.... I have since ditched SoTS II.

What made you finally give up on SotS2?  I still haven't really checked it out much, despite having it for months now.

The AI really does not put up a good fight and I just do not like the UI.  Since purchasing DW, I have found it to be a far superior product.  DW just does so many things well and the living universe makes it hard to play anything...... and DW has multiple paths to victory, with SoTS 2 I feel it is just a planet grab.   Also, with StarDrive and its good ship design feature on my HD I just don't feel the need to devote time for it.  I still play ES as well, so I feel SoTS II has fallen below them in my case.


PE

[RooksBailey]

I really wish Code Force would put DW on Steam.  It is a great game deserving a much wider audience. 

[Boggit]

Both sound intriguing games. If you had to choose between Distant Worlds or Endless Space, which would you choose and why?

[bbmike]

I've just started playing both Distant Worlds and Endless Space (and Armada 2526 Supernova and Stardrive for that matter). My opinion is they are too different to choose one over the other. Endless Space plays more like the old classic 4x turn based strategy games that I grew up with. Distant Worlds plays more like Europa Universalis to me. I feel like I'm more removed in Distant Worlds. Like EU, that's not bad, just different. People have said that the universe in DW feels "alive". It does. It's hard to pull myself away from a game of DW. I want to see how the universe unfolds. Oh well. I'm still learning and I'm sure I'll have more to say on all of the space game later. I'm just glad there are so many to choose from right now!  ;D

[Boggit]

I've just started playing both Distant Worlds and Endless Space (and Armada 2526 Supernova and Stardrive for that matter). My opinion is they are too different to choose one over the other. Endless Space plays more like the old classic 4x turn based strategy games that I grew up with. Distant Worlds plays more like Europa Universalis to me. I feel like I'm more removed in Distant Worlds. Like EU, that's not bad, just different. People have said that the universe in DW feels "alive". It does. It's hard to pull myself away from a game of DW. I want to see how the universe unfolds. Oh well. I'm still learning and I'm sure I'll have more to say on all of the space game later. I'm just glad there are so many to choose from right now!  ;D

Thanks bbmike. I've most recently played Armada 2526 Gold and GalCiv2 for my SF hit. I liked Master of Orion 2 and the SSG one - Reach for the Stars? I've accumulated so many over the years that I am getting very picky about what I do go out and get, so I really appreciate the feedback.

[PanzersEast]

Both sound intriguing games. If you had to choose between Distant Worlds or Endless Space, which would you choose and why?

Here is what I posted in the other thread..... It sounds like I dislike ES and I don't as I still play it, however just comparing them.


I took the plunge as I am a fan of 4X games and Stardrive is very good at this point in beta.  I have all the mentioned games and it depends on what you are looking for.  Just some random thoughts

1) Distant Worlds
This is my favorite out of all the 4X games I own.  The game is very deep and highly customizable (not just automation, but how the game is setup).  I find that the diplomacy options are one of the best I have seen in any game and the universe is alive.  It has a very good tech tree, however the ship customization is good, but I feel could be better.  The UI is good, but it can be cumbersome in doing some task, however this is understandable because there are a lot of things going on.  The ground combat is set to get a face-lift with the next expansion which is clearly lacking. There are just so many interesting things that happen to you that it really feels like you are in control/running an empire and not just building ships and taking planets...... You cannot just rush out on your own as you will get owned quickly.  My overall experience with this game is that it is well worth the money and highly mod-able (2D helps)! Watch Das lose below, I play differently than he does but you will find many ways to play.

2) StarDrive
This game is different than Distant Worlds as it stream-lines a lot of the game mechanics and is not as deep as DW.  I like the way the game plays and it setups some interesting scenarios.  The UI is good and a lot of the game is well thought out.  The ship building/design is great and I almost think of this game as if Moo2 and GalCiv2 had a baby as it lends itself to both.  The tech tree is ok and the diplomacy is basic, but you can form Federations which are a great idea and remember that DW has had several Add-ons and is more mature.  The way it handles fleet setup is very good, maybe the best I have come across.  It is just good old fun and the different races are interesting.  It has great visuals and interesting events and artifacts.  You have ground combat that does a decent job and good planets are really tough to take so it makes things interesting...... I do not regret my purchase.  Below is a tutorial.

3) Endless Space
I like Endless Space and the devs have continued to produce free DLC content, however it still feels a little empty.  The combat in the game leaves some to be desired and the tech tree can be confusing.  I do like the clean UI, however it seems to be a sterile game with a small hint of personality.  I like that you can hire heroes in the game and the colony management is good and streamlined.  There are some very good elements to the game, however I would rank it behind the other two at this point.  I think once the next add-on is released it will get there and has steadily improved but just not as good as an experience for me as the other two.  LP below, a new free addon was released yesterday and the video is not up to date.

I rambled through so if you have specific questions just ask...

PE