Rome II

[mikeck]

Guys, I highly recommend Radious' economy and tech mod! Seriously. You just drop it into your data file. It decreases the food requirement for buildings and lowers the public order penalty for them as well. It also increases the money you get from them. The result is that you never really have a shortage of food and are never really unhappy...that's kind of bad. But the big advantage is that the Ai has lots of money and can build stuff without struggling. He'll, I had a hard time keeping people happy and fed too.

The result is AI's with nice large armies and healthy economies.

[WYBaugh]

Angry Joe review. 

http://angryjoeshow.com/2013/09/total-war-rome-ii-epic-fail-a-i-glitches/

[mikeck]

Sounds like good mod material. The closest I get to that is playing Slitherine's Chariot game, which is "OK", but very dated now and you've little troop control - which I guess is the historical reality.

Less troop control would be a good thing in Rome 2, since the AI can't do anything but all-out charge or sit on a flag.  I'm serious when I say that instead of having a cake walk over a poor AI opponent, I'd rather just have an elaborate pre-battle setup and basic plan system like that in Spartan or Chariots of War.  It would cut the need for a sophisticated tactically oriented AI and level the field.  Obviously CA, themselves, have never been happy with their own tactical AI since they just ripped out the one from Shogun 2 (the best thus far by a wide margin) and started fresh.  I propose that having this kind of option for resolving the battles would give more of a challenge (and make them faster, too).  Having such an option would be good for a better challenge, in the end.  Nevertheless, the tactical AI can probably do somewhat fair with a couple tweaks and removal of the victory flag locations which it so often mindlessly turtles on, to it's own detriment.

My biggest complaints, however, are in regard to the campaign map AI in Rome 2.  The numerous AI armies wasting away with attrition?  Okay, I've overlooked that at the moment.  Dividing it's forces into multiple smaller armies - I thought this had been mostly curbed in Shogun 2, but it's back since the change to the way armies form and recruit (which are great additions, btw).  Armies standing about, doing nothing unless they outnumber you two-to-one or all their cities are taken, has provided little challenge.  It's not doing what it did fairly well in Shogun 2, and that's a disappointment. 

But the worst thing I've seen so far is the AI factions self-destructing because it will not build enough happiness inducing buildings.  I've progressed to a mid-game stage and they've all plummeted into a constant state of rebellion, with large rebel armies popping up and capturing their regions.   I would call this game breaking AI behavior.  There are even dormant rebel armies, that had spawned during a previous faction owner's rebellion-laden ownership, now sitting around on the map doing nothing.  Hell, they still just stand around quite a bit while their spawning faction is still there.  I'm not even sure the spawned rebel armies are attacking cities all that often, but they evidentally reach whatever magic troop strength ratio the AI requires to attack, enough to occasionally get off their butt and attack something. 

I've played Rome 2 for over forty hours and I see some great stuff in there.  Unlike some people, I don't think it's "dumbed down".  Quite the opposite with all the new features.  Unfortunately the AI often doesn't know how to use the new features, and is even self-destructive.  I keep giving this another go, and yet another go, but I'm only finding the issues get worse as my current game progresses.  The real tragedy will be when CA stops making patches and moves on to developing their next title.  I have a feeling it'll be before they properly get this one done, because they've done it before.  I still hold some hope that the AI gets fixed, and they don't screw anything else up in the process, but we shouldn't be too surprised if it doesn't get done in the end.

Perhaps I've entered the realm of Frothing Hater, but the longer I play the more and greater problems I find.

Those are fair complaints and I have experienced many of them...but not to beat a dead horse here there are several mods that help. They allow the Ai to build without crushing their economy and one that prioritized top tier units for purchase. In fact, I just ran into an army of a barbarian tribe in Cisalpine. They had 15 units: 4 were heavy hoplites, 4 light hoplites, 3 cavalry (including the general) and 4 slingers. Not bad. They also have another pretty full stack consisting of mainly skirmishers, light cav and slingers which is the standard dumb AI army. I out in the mod about 10 turns ago (radious AI mod) so I am hoping its prioritization produced the former army.

Could be just dreaming..dunno. But give them a try before you give up

[jomni]

Mods mods mods.  Both a good and bad thing.  Makes the devs lazy in delivering a stellar software because people can just tweak it to their liking.

I personally have  never installed a TW mod.   STW2 is probably their best out of the box title.

[Gusington]

^You're missing a ton of content by not using mods. They make most of the TW games (especially M2TW) fresh and new again for 1000s of hours.

Justb played for another couple of hours. I checked on the morale and food supply of neighboring factions and everyone was happy (in the green)...much happier than my Roman faction. But by the end of this session I had brought my morale back, either by building some needed structures, researching tech or (my last choice) placing troops in cities. A temporary fix that I don't want to keep going.

I also scored my first satrap (Liguria) and together we are marching on Veneti together.

So again I apologize...Rome II continues to draw me in and make me smile. Sorry!

[mikeck]

Gus, are you using any mods?

[mikeck]

Mods mods mods.  Both a good and bad thing.  Makes the devs lazy in delivering a stellar software because people can just tweak it to their liking.

I personally have  never installed a TW mod.   STW2 is probably their best out of the box title.

I disagree. Shogun FOTS was great...darthmod made it better
Skyrim was awesome at release but the mods make it unbelievable
X3: tC is great, mods make it better

I don't think it's lazy developers. They make a game. I can then pick and choose mods to tailor the game that I want.

[tgb]

I am firmly on the fence on this one.  For every negative post or review I see a positive one.  And since my system is borderline-capable of running it anyway, I really wish there was a demo so I could see a) if it's as good as some people say, b) if it's as bad as some people say, and c) if it's even worth getting until I upgrade my rig, which won't be until the end of the year.

[Nefaro]

Perhaps a patch in the not too distant future can remedy this. This concerns me only because I have seen it starting too. But I have also seen things that other people have said are not there, like AI factions fighting each other, being aggressive on the strategic map and not being stupid on the tactical map.

I've seen the AI attacking each other just fine.  It seems to be doing a passable job, and I'm seeing some factions growing larger and larger.  I've not seen it be aggressive toward me, the player, unless it has a very sizable numbers advantage.  Now that I'm further into the game, all the AI factions are pretty much paralyzed with rampant rebel armies in their territories so it has come to a helpless standstill.  While it's capable of being aggressive on the campaign side, it often isn't unless it can dogpile you and eventually cripples itself so bad that it can't do anything other than fight rebels.

It has also put up a decent fight in a tactical battle, but that was only once in the 20 or so battles I've manually played.  That was because 1) It was open field and no flag spawned, and 2) The enemy army was a full 20 units, and fully consisted of steppe archer cavalry, so it was difficult coming to grips with them all in skirmish mode and constantly raining arrows.  All my other fights, they just sit still in one spot and let me pepper them with missiles and artillery for awhile, and my final head-on rush breaks them in no time.  It doesn't do anything but form up and wait for me to kill them off, with maybe a final desperate charge when I move up close (more like a counter-charge).  I think the primary cause is the whole flag cap mechanics but I also have concern because this is reportedly a whole new AI than the one in Shogun 2 so who knows how long it will take to get it back to that level of challenge, if ever?

I realize that, at this point, it really needs some mods.  However, I'm not sure whether any of them can address the more serious problems I'm experiencing such as the snowballing AI unrest.  There is a lot more hard-coded stuff in these newer TWs, from what I understand, so I'll probably wait until the vanilla game gets some updates before delving into what will be ever-changing mod soup.  Adding mods has been moot for me anyway since TWCenter has been so overloaded the last two times I tried to get mods that I gave up waiting for the forum pages to load.  It's times like these my regular insomnia can pay off for d/l'ing stuff at non-peak hours.  ;)

I'll probably just wait until after the next update (hopefully this coming weekend) and fire up a fresh campaign.  Clean slate.  I'll wrestle with the mods later.  It doesn't have to be perfect, but I expect the vanilla game to be somewhat challenging at some point in the future.  Maybe some of you guys are satisfied with the challenge it currently provides, but my game as Pontus has been a bummer on that front. 

I so love this period ,I've put 40+ hours into it in it's currently flawed state, if that gives you an idea of how much I want to see this thing succeed.  It's also why I've been vocal about it's issues.  :D

[Nefaro]

Those are fair complaints and I have experienced many of them...but not to beat a dead horse here there are several mods that help. They allow the Ai to build without crushing their economy and one that prioritized top tier units for purchase. In fact, I just ran into an army of a barbarian tribe in Cisalpine. They had 15 units: 4 were heavy hoplites, 4 light hoplites, 3 cavalry (including the general) and 4 slingers. Not bad. They also have another pretty full stack consisting of mainly skirmishers, light cav and slingers which is the standard dumb AI army. I out in the mod about 10 turns ago (radious AI mod) so I am hoping its prioritization produced the former army.

Could be just dreaming..dunno. But give them a try before you give up

Which mod is this, that adjusts the campaign AI?  The issue with the AI creating slinger-heavy armies is also another complaint, although it's better than having an army of only four or six units.  Still... an improvement there would be greatly appreciated.

I may give that one a try, if I can find it.


EDIT:  Wait.  Is that the one that basically lowers penalties for buildings and ups production?  I kinda feel like that's too much of a cheat.  I've done great working within the penalties of all the structures, and it has forced me to make tough decisions instead of justing building everything bigger & better whenever I have the money to do so.  I like how it currently is in the vanilla game.  I was just hoping that someone tweaked the AI to value Public Order producing buildings more than it currently does.  :-\

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Angry Joe is really, really angry.

I'm kinda glad I held off.

[CptHowdy]

Mods mods mods.  Both a good and bad thing.  Makes the devs lazy in delivering a stellar software because people can just tweak it to their liking.

I personally have  never installed a TW mod.   STW2 is probably their best out of the box title.

I disagree. Shogun FOTS was great...darthmod made it better
Skyrim was awesome at release but the mods make it unbelievable
X3: tC is great, mods make it better

I don't think it's lazy developers. They make a game. I can then pick and choose mods to tailor the game that I want.

mods to me are quality of life things such as graphical improvements, new units, items, spells, scenery, flags etc.. if you need a mod to make the game playable then there is a flaw in the game. that is being a lazy developer. nice and shiny on the outside but still a rustbucket underneath.

[CptHowdy]

Angry Joe is really, really angry.

I'm kinda glad I held off.

haha love the benny hill theme music playing during that first big battle sequence!

[CptHowdy]

Angry Joe is really, really angry.

I'm kinda glad I held off.

watched first 20 or so minutes, freaking hilarious. that guy being interviewed about the AI and how great it is should be fired. did he really believe what he was saying?? a little gangnam style around the 19-20 minute mark if you dig PSY  ;D

[RooksBailey]

Angry Joe is really, really angry.

I'm kinda glad I held off.

Got to admit, if I had seen this before I pre-ordered, I would have been glad to wait a few months.

Personally, I don't really understand all the rage.  I mean, some of the stuff he has pointed out is accurate. I've seen strange graphical glitches (seams on rocks for example...very sloppy), and I COMPLETELY agree on the "mosh pit battles".  I thought I hadn't been using the formations button properly, but I guess it is a problem with the game - this does make me concerned because that would be very close to a game-breaking bug for me.  Be that as it may...this is precisely what I expected from a TW release.  Bugs, bugs and more bugs, with a six month to a year time frame for a proper v1.0.  I really didn't expect anything different.   :D

Nonetheless, I want the rage to continue because I hope we get an Elemental-like situation where pre-orders/early buyers get some compensation via free expansions.   :D