Rome II

[W8taminute]

I've updated to patch 4 but continued my patch 3 save game.  So far no troubles found.  I wonder if the story is different if one starts with a fresh game using patch 4.  I've not the time to try myself and I'm unwilling to give up on my current campaign game as I'm finally taking land and building up my infrastructure now that I have a better idea how things work.

[Yskonyn]

Wot? Patch 4? Now I am confused. Didn't we discuss Patch 5 a little ways back in this thread? O_o

[Nefaro]

I was totally confused as the Scythians don't start in Scythia but farther west and who the hell were the Massen-gils?

They're all southern steppe "barbarians" of the horse-warrior preference, IIRC. 

I've not checked out the DLC yet, but I suspect that all three have many of the same unit types?

[Gusington]

I haven't checked either but I think you are correct.

I am most likely going to abandon my Roman campaign since CA themselves stated that all changes are best enjoyed if a new campaign is begun. The Iceni beckon. As do the Seleucids. As do the Scythians.

[W8taminute]

Wot? Patch 4? Now I am confused. Didn't we discuss Patch 5 a little ways back in this thread? O_o

My bad.  Sorry for the confusion.  I started a game under patch 3 and have continued it successfully under patch 5. 

[MengJiao]

I was totally confused as the Scythians don't start in Scythia but farther west and who the hell were the Massen-gils?

They're all southern steppe "barbarians" of the horse-warrior preference, IIRC. 

I've not checked out the DLC yet, but I suspect that all three have many of the same unit types?

  I don't know how similar the three in the DLC are, but when I was Normal Parthia, that whole region was crawling with Steppe Archers and Young Axemen.  I used to travel up there to raise some Sarmatian Lancers, but the difficulty of holding that area was one reason I gave up on winning the Parthia campaign.

   But Last night I took the Normal Royal Scythians (NRS) for a spin and got destroyed on the first go.  The Next Time I was a lot more careful about trade and allies and the NRS are doing okay.  They don't seem very powerful in terms of units or economics or ship construction, but they are way off on the edge surrounded by barbarians even less competent than they are so they are okay.  In terms of whereever I am in the world of patches (beta5?), the AIs seems a lot smarter than when the Parthinians rolled over them.  Most of my old Parthinian tricks don't seem to work anymore.  The Battle AI is savagely efficient and I can no longer be sure of defeating armies more than twice my size.  Leaders and agents seem to last longer and get perks faster.  On the other hand, my Parthinian Cheif has a wife who says she is Roman and the slave rebels have named themselves something like "Salvadors of Latinium".  We, the Yurt-Burners are disturbed.

   It's sorta sad, but even the Royal Scythians seem like generic yurt-burning slobs.  Where are the three-kill virgin horse girls that so excited Herodotus?  Where are the mass impalings?  The giant mounds stuffed with gold and horse-sacrifices?  They are like Romans pretending to be Royal Scythians in a kind of Cowboy Dude Ranch fashion.  Which -- of course -- I like, but which I'm sure most fans of a good yurt-burning will find offensive.

[Sir Slash]

Yeah, all 3 factions start with the Steppe Archers and Young Axes, pretty weak and surrounded by neighbors of the same. Only 1 town to begin with little income. All 3 factions are rated "Hard" to play in the intro screen. Patch 4 made more factions want to trade with my Roman/Julia faction and patch 5 made even more factions want to trade or ask to Ally with me. Patch 5 seems to have woken-up the Campaign AI as factions that were staying home are now sailing all over the Med, even Sparta has ships cruising around though I don't know what they're looking for. Nice to see free DLC content. Like Gus, I'm thinking to start-over with a new campaign to see all the new changes in their glory.

[MengJiao]

Yeah, all 3 factions start with the Steppe Archers and Young Axes, pretty weak and surrounded by neighbors of the same. Only 1 town to begin with little income. All 3 factions are rated "Hard" to play in the intro screen. Patch 4 made more factions want to trade with my Roman/Julia faction and patch 5 made even more factions want to trade or ask to Ally with me. Patch 5 seems to have woken-up the Campaign AI as factions that were staying home are now sailing all over the Med, even Sparta has ships cruising around though I don't know what they're looking for. Nice to see free DLC content. Like Gus, I'm thinking to start-over with a new campaign to see all the new changes in their glory.

  The Strategic AI seems to be doing far too much moving around for its own good.  The Cimmerians had me pretty much locked up.  My one port was blockaded so I couldn't build fleets and my three armies were not up to beating hoplites of any kind.  Then most of the Cimmerians went off on some expedition and I was able to take their main city.  It they had just stayed home they would have won the war.  It seems like the game needs entrenched camps so the AI has something to do when it should just sit still.  The current entrenchments and stuff are not worth doing and the AI needs something else to keep its mind on defending things.

[Gusington]

Has anyone started a new patched up campaign?

[MengJiao]

Has anyone started a new patched up campaign?

  I think I did.  I think I have automatic beta patches on so I think I'm in beta5.  If that is the case then what I've seen is that:
   1) units don't rout quite so fast
   2) the AI is harder to ambush
   3) but if you leave the AI alone it goes off on an expedition and you can take their big cities with no defenders to speak of to stop you

  Other Gripes:
    The Royal Scythians have wives who brag about being Romans and the revolting slaves have army names refering to Latinium.

  Other Fun stuff having nothing to do with patches probably:
    I do like the barbarian ships.

   Future resolutions:
    Having been a yurt-burner, I now want to have a yurtless faction for my next campaign

[Gusington]

Once a yurt burner, always a yurt burner.

[Nefaro]

Yeah, all 3 factions start with the Steppe Archers and Young Axes, pretty weak and surrounded by neighbors of the same. Only 1 town to begin with little income. All 3 factions are rated "Hard" to play in the intro screen. Patch 4 made more factions want to trade with my Roman/Julia faction and patch 5 made even more factions want to trade or ask to Ally with me. Patch 5 seems to have woken-up the Campaign AI as factions that were staying home are now sailing all over the Med, even Sparta has ships cruising around though I don't know what they're looking for. Nice to see free DLC content. Like Gus, I'm thinking to start-over with a new campaign to see all the new changes in their glory.

  The Strategic AI seems to be doing far too much moving around for its own good.  The Cimmerians had me pretty much locked up.  My one port was blockaded so I couldn't build fleets and my three armies were not up to beating hoplites of any kind.  Then most of the Cimmerians went off on some expedition and I was able to take their main city.  It they had just stayed home they would have won the war.  It seems like the game needs entrenched camps so the AI has something to do when it should just sit still.  The current entrenchments and stuff are not worth doing and the AI needs something else to keep its mind on defending things.

The Total War AI rarely did well at defending it's own cities, unless you managed to scare their nearby scattered armies into taking refuge in one.  That's why they implemented the larger garrison spawns, and they even bumped those up some more in one of these recent Rome 2 updates. 

I imagine they just bypassed attempting to refine the AI and decided to rely primarily on these spawned garrisons to hold out.  If it allows the enemy AI armies to concentrate into one large one and be aggressive, then it's a trade-off I'll take.  There's nothing more boring than a TW campaign where all your enemies just turtle up inside their cities and never leave.  :-\

[MengJiao]

Once a yurt burner, always a yurt burner.

  That's the proverbial bad news.

[Gusington]

Unless you're the one burning the yurts. Then it's endless fun.

[Sir Slash]

I burned my yurt once while drinking coffee naked. Fortunately aloe helped immensely. I don't really see what this has to do with the game though. Anyway, for a re-start, I'm thinking of trying the Seleucids. They have a good starting position with 5 regions and several Satraps and only at war with 1 faction in the middle of Arabia. They should be an easy start with lots of like cultural factions surrounding them and sea access. So maybe I'll survive to the year 1AD. ;D