Dominions 4 video...huh??

[Faux]

Don't forget these guys are little more than 'garage coders

- I don't think that's true, just that the Dominion games where done part time. They'll never get any bigger doing the same thing with the same graphics. There are 10 year old game with better graphics. A kick starter could take them and the game to the next level.

The thing is that they really are 'garage coders'. Illwinter is just two persons and no more. They have outside help for the manual (Bruce Geryk) and the music is made by a relatively unknown Swedish folk music duo. These guys have regular day jobs and I highly doubt they want to commit to carrying out a funded project like a kickstarter.

[Nefaro]

I actually like the sprite/pixel art.  I'm not bitching about the graphics as a whole.. had just hoped that the rather bland vanilla map terrain could be touched up.  Being a long-time wargamer, I'm a bit of a map whore and enjoy the pretty ones.

I'm happy that some of the units got touched-up, they'll probably look a bit more crisp.  :)  I'd rather not have 3D graphics in a deep strategy game primarily because it often entails you have to juggle 3D camera controls around which is just work to me.  Am I one of the oddballs for not wanting 3D gfx in Dominions??

Not that big of a deal... perhaps sometime in the future I'll be spoiled with new map textures.  Doesn't hurt bringing it up.

[tgb]

I never bought Dom 3 because of the outrageous price Shrapnel was charging.  I WAS going to pick it up at the lower $30 price point, but I had other games to play, and at this point might as well wait until next month and just get 4.

[mikeck]

Like Nefaro, I don't want 3d Gfx in Dominions 4 either. What I do want is crisper 2d sprites and a better map. Maybe replace the white lines showing which provinces from where you are drawing resources with something....other than plain white lines?  I don't know, for me, a little bit of graphics goes along way for immersion. I will buy it day one because I love Dominions 3 so much...just feels like a "unit pack" DLC

[Yskonyn]

Well then you probably found Dom 3 a unit pack DLC over Dom 2 as well.
That's what I mean with being fair; The history of Illwinter's products should make it quite clear what to expect and what not.

[spelk]

Can you blame folks who like the current game despite its (subjective) shortcomings for hoping for big changes in the next incarnation? Its just a normal natural aspiration, to see something that you invest time in and hope that it becomes a lot more.

You can reason away why this is a timid evolution any which way you want, but ultimately most of the people here making the comments are Dom3 players (who probably jumped through hoops and expense to get the game!) looking for something a little more.

And Dom3 was released in 2006. 7 years ago! Surely, after 7 years we can at least hope for more on the visual/design front, as well as all the technicalities of mechanics?

Look to Arcen Games for one mand band, garage coders who have done stellar things, constant updates and revamps and total engine re-writes to take in new visual and UI design ethics. AI War was so good a strategy game that it afforded Chris Park the luxury of then being able to work on his games full time. Come on Illwinter, follow the main man Park! :)

Lets shoot for the moon!

[Yskonyn]

You can expect all you want, but I just point out that expecting big graphical changes are not realistic because :
A) the dev studio is small with a low budget
B) All their games have this similar graphics style, even their latest offering. Never did we see any real progress in presentation fidelity.
C) until recently the devs have always stated there was no work going on to create the next version of Dom. (Might have had to do with them wanting to get rid of Shrapnel first, I dont know).

If we are all Dom 3 players I expect us to be informed about the game and the devs. Ranting like a pouting child about how the graphics are lacking in the new version does seem rather disconnected.

Sure, I would like a high res, highly detailed presentation for Dom too. I am just pointing out it isn't realistic to expect it. And the way this thread started out just came across as a pouty rant. There, I said it.

:)

[mikeck]

You can expect all you want, but I just point out that expecting big graphical changes are not realistic because :
A) the dev studio is small with a low budget
B) All their games have this similar graphics style, even their latest offering. Never did we see any real progress in presentation fidelity.
C) until recently the devs have always stated there was no work going on to create the next version of Dom. (Might have had to do with them wanting to get rid of Shrapnel first, I dont know).

If we are all Dom 3 players I expect us to be informed about the game and the devs. Ranting like a pouting child about how the graphics are lacking in the new version does seem rather disconnected.

Sure, I would like a high res, highly detailed presentation for Dom too. I am just pointing out it isn't realistic to expect it. And the way this thread started out just came across as a pouty rant. There, I said it.

:)

Ok, let's not make it personal or nasty. I don't think anyone is pouting or ranting. Just disappointed.

I get what your saying, but what I think some of us are trying to say is that we are not asking for "big graphical changes". We aren't expecting an update to 3d or something. We it want a "small noticeable minute graphical update"...any...graphical update. Especially if you are going to charge me $30

I can't speak to Dominions 2 as I never bought it. Like I said, I'm buying 4 anyway. I just don't think it was too much to expect the developer to improve what many believed to be the one weakness (the others being lack of diplomacy which also wasn't addressed and SP AI which was I believe)

[spelk]

I initially found the UI and clunky Art assets a big barrier to "getting into the game". It took me quite a while, and quite a fair amount of persistance to get rolling with it. It's not bad once you're used to what is on offer. Just 7 years of wait, and the next incarnation could use some love to make the game more accessible to folks who are not as persistant or forgiving. No pouting. Hoped for more fundamental changes in the areas I personally found the game troublesome when coming to it.

I'm not a lost sale. I'll still buy Dom4 as soon as possilbe. I imported Dom3 from the US at great expense. I tried to get my Disc license converted to a Desura license so I could run/update the game through that distribution channel. No answer from Illwinter on that front. So I bought it again, at a much reduced cost on Desura. I'm not the enemy. I'm a supporter. So I feel like I'm allowed a moment or two of disappointment to know that Dom4 won't be rejigged for more accessibility in the way that I hoped. And if I'm not Dom fan enough to take it on the chin and completely understand their predicament, then so be it. But I didn't pout! I've got too many games (past, present and future) to pout over all the minor disappointments. ;)

[SgtRock]

I own and enjoyed Dom2 & Dom3 but, was hoping they would take the game to the next level, sadly Dom4 doesn't do this.

[Yskonyn]

I dont intend to attack anyone personally. I just respond to what's being posted and how it comes across to me.
I am glad we all remain a nice Dom family. :D
Family members can discuss such things, can they not? ;)

[Nefaro]

C) until recently the devs have always stated there was no work going on to create the next version of Dom. (Might have had to do with them wanting to get rid of Shrapnel first, I dont know).

I've also suspected the publisher thing to be the reason for previous claims of nothing further.  Glad that changed.

Ranting like a pouting child about how the graphics are lacking in the new version does seem rather disconnected.

If you're referring to my complaint about the stock map textures, I had only hoped to see them improved sometime soon.  Not toss a fit and threaten to boycott or some such craziness.  I wanted to convey what is on my wishlist for the Dominions series, not demand it.  I didn't take anyones criticisms here as such, either.  Perhaps you're reading more passion in them than is actually present?

[Faux]

We aren't expecting an update to 3d or something. We it want a "small noticeable minute graphical update"...any...graphical update. Especially if you are going to charge me $30

Numerous sprites have been upgraded. I believe all the old sprites that were from 1 and 2 are remade and some of 3's bad ones were given a facelift. In general the sprites are way sharper in Dom 4.

Basically what Dom 4 is is what people generally consider an expansion pack. Some people might argue that the price is too high for some new game mechanics, UI improvements here and there and some new content and they make a valid point. I still think making it a sequel is a good move and knowing Illwinter they will be patching and improving their new game for years to come. Hell, Dom 3 - a game from 2006, got its latest patch just a week or two ago. It's been long since the Dominions series got this much attention.

[mikeck]

I read that there had been some AI improvements and then read another site that said there had not. Anyone know? Frankly, I found the Ai in 3 decent enough but then again, I'm not very good. Obviously I mean SP AI.

[Yskonyn]

Yeah, I have read the same. Granted I probably won't notice any difference either, as I am not particularly good at playing the game. :P
Guess we'll have to wait and see.