Endless Space? Nope, it's Endless Legend!

[tgb]

I'd be curious to hear the results, because if you have the biggest guns, it makes sense that no one is coming after you - yet.  In my current game I make all of my neighbors either "nervous" or "fearful".

I'd rather be feared than respected!

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Looks like it was roughly double anyone else's level.

[Nefaro]

I've been having crashes on my older Win7 machine (I use that with the 42" LED TV) with Endless Legend.  But my laptop has been fairly smooth other than some oddball screen screwing up but being able to exit and restart.

I'm diggin the game but it seems rather thin on content in some areas.  I mean.. how many Minor Races are there?  Six?!  Then you have only one starting unit type and two more you can unlock through research.  Meh.  Not much.  While you can arm them, the equipment is mostly the same 'ole stuff with larger bonuses as you research higher & higher tiers.  You can find the plans for some special ones via quests but there don't seem to be many types.  I come away with the impression that this is a step back from Endless Space regarding content.  Unless a buttload of shinies opens up somewhere past Tier 3 that I've not seen.

There is also a noticeable lack of in-game information and functionality.  Such as past turn logs, hot keys for some functions, and an in-game encyclopedia.  Dunno how many times I was looking around the UI attempting to find out what a specific monster/researchable unit's skill did to no avail (only being able to do so after entering combat or researching).  Stats for Minor Race units once the initial turn's message had been cleared only located where you have to choose Assimilation (hopefully you don't accidentally replace your current one in that screen).  Etc.  While the basic UI functionality is still there from Endless Space, there is some extra stuff that is commonplace in 4X games these days which I'm either not finding or, as I suspect, are not there at all.

I admit that I haven't played past the second Tier stuff yet, but I've started three new games to get an early impression of the replay variety.  Doesn't seem to be much.  But it's an unusual take on the genre, so that makes it interesting.  I like it but I'm beginning to think I'll get more long term enjoyment out of FE:LH (great variety, terrible art & lore direction) and AOW3 (still a bit lacking in variety since it's mostly focused on warfare but still has more than EL).  I may end up shelving it until some more kinks are worked out and hope that more stuff gets added at some point.  It's not bad, just feels rather thin in places.

[tgb]

I don't understand how anyone can claim that a game with 8 factions that all play differently, 8 victory conditions, a faction editor and a random map generator "doesn't seem to have much" replay variety. 

[Nefaro]

I don't understand how anyone can claim that a game with 8 factions that all play differently, 8 victory conditions, a faction editor and a random map generator "doesn't seem to have much" replay variety.

Those aren't unique traits.  Modern 4X games have all that and more.  Compared to other titles in the genre, it's thin on content.  Fortunately the art and some of the mechanics are different enough to make it interesting on it's own merits. 

Perhaps there will be an onslaught of DLC content added in the future?

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Yeah, I'm finding it a bit shallow as well.  I don't seem to be doing much of anything other than wandering around the map looking for shiny hexes and occasionally attacking a minor village or clicking the next item on the build queue.

[Rayfer]

I've been playing Age of Wonders III the past few days after getting it in the Steam sale for $19.99. How does Endless Legends compare?

[Nefaro]

I've been playing Age of Wonders III the past few days after getting it in the Steam sale for $19.99. How does Endless Legends compare?

AOW3 has far more combat and unit variety.  EL has some interesting factions, a beautiful map, and perhaps more possible faction customization derived from research. 

EL's combat is more hands-off while AOW3's combat is closer to a light wargame.  For instance, you only give orders to move or target a specific unit and then set a generalized back-up plan (attack, hold, or defend) if that doesn't pan out by the unit's initiative activation.  AOW3 has you directly control the units, select their (more varied) attacks, and even has facing and zones of control - far more detail in combat.

EL has more researchable stuff available, although most of it is buildings to be unlocked and constructed for further income/happiness/collecting bonuses for your cities.  The core concepts are still pretty much the same as Endless Space, with a different flavor & setting.  I liked Endless Space and this one is similarly enjoyable although it's even more long & focused on the initial peaceful build-up.   Not sure how the late game plays out yet.

[Rayfer]

Thanks Nefaro. Some day down the road I'm sure I'll get Endless Legend because I enjoy this genre.  But for now it's AoWIII.

[FarAway Sooner]

I don't understand how anyone can claim that a game with 8 factions that all play differently, 8 victory conditions, a faction editor and a random map generator "doesn't seem to have much" replay variety.

I haven't played the title yet, but I think this may be an example of "depth vs breadth"?  The game seems to have excellent breadth, but folks are worried about the depth.

Depth-of-game-play can be an interesting animal.  Some games have it in spades and do a pretty good job of making it accessible.  Two games that have the best depth of content ever but badly struggle in the "making it accessible to gamers" are Distant Worlds and Eador: Masters of a Broken World.  I love both those titles, but have seen a lot of gamers really struggle to get up the learning curve on either.

For Eador, that lack of accessibility to the depth was compounded by frequent bugginess to consign it to the history pile of TBS gaming.  Which is sad, because the content and game design were amazing.  It truly had the potential to be the successor to Master of Magic, if only they'd gotten the execution around their code base tighter.

[PanzersEast]

I have not played Endless Legend enough to get a great feel for the game, however in the time I have played I can say it is a improvement over the issues I had with Endless Space thus far.  I have yet to see if the late game is any better, however the world does not feel lifeless and there are many things you can do to shape your empire.  The battles are pretty good and UI is still excellent.  I do see the AI going for a land grab early on which I thought was odd as I thought there were penalties for doing this. The factions play differently and feel like they have enough to separate each.   

In terms of this vs AOW3, I have the expansion and I would say AOW3 is a better game from a depth standpoint.  I want to get into the expansion but have had no time to do so..... just to see how far AOW3 has come.  Endless Legend is a good game thus far, however I feel there are more things needed to make it a great title and would rate it behind Fallen Enchantress LH and AOW3 at this point... but still , I am glad I have it and look forward to spending more time with it.


PE

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

I quit my campaign as the Broken Armor guys because I'd misunderstood some of the game concepts and ended up mismanaging some armies and cities.

I started a new game as the Necrophages but i found that I didn't like their play style so I quit that one and started again as the Ardent Mages.  Normal difficulty, 6  random factions, default map settings.

I still don't really know what the hell I'm doing.  I just kept wandering around the map, exploring ruins, slapping down minor tribes, and building up my cities.  Before I knew it, I was awash in resources and just kept dumping money into buying improvements.  I got into a fight with the Necrophages but wiped them out very quickly.

Then I just didn't know what to do. There didn't seem to be any real focus or direction to the game.  Seems like the winter turns get longer and the summer ones get shorter as the game progresses so it was harder and harder to move across the map.  I had an ocean on one side and the trader clan on my other and they weren't making any trouble so I just kept slowly wandering and building up cities.   I had a few minor dust ups with the Cultists but no real wars once the Necros were gone.

I'm still not sure how to control happiness as many of my cities were in a state of constant rebellion yet this didn't really seem to have any noticeable negative impact.  I didn't need to garrison these cities with troops and I never saw an actual revolt.

The game just sort of ground on and on and I would occasionally get a message saying either I or the Cultists were in the lead.   Eventually the game just ended and I was told I'd won.

I don't think this is the game for me.  There seems to be a lot of number crunching going on in the background but not enough for the player to actually do.  I guess if you're really into optimizing each and every city so that you squeeze the absolute most out of it each turn, you might enjoy this but that's not really my thing.  It just didn't feel like I had any real clear goals.  Winning an expansion victory wasn't going to happen because the units just don't move quickly enough for it to happen.  Same with the quest victory.  I was in Chapter 6 of it and I needed to defend my city against 3 waves of pitifully weak armies but the winter movement penalties meant it was going to take them 20+ turns to even reach my city and I was able to just hunt them down.  I started the next chapter in the quest victory but the game timed out before I could carry it out.


I think I'll give it one more shot only I'll set the speed to Endless and remove score victory from the options and see how it plays out. 

[tgb]

There are 8 different victory conditions that can be turned on or off when setting up a game.  Did you read them?  Also, when looking at your empire summary screen there's a button in the lower right had corner that takes you to a screen that shows how all the factions are doing (the ones you encountered, anyway) in general, how far each has progressed in the different victory conditions, and what you actually have to do to win.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Yes, of course I read them.  Doesn't really matter much as the game just doesn't seem to impel you with any sense of urgency.  You can just potter along and win on points though as the AI doesn't seem to be up to much generally.

[tgb]

If you read them you'd know that the point victory can be turned off. Depending on the length of game you select at some point (300, 450l or 600 turns) Winter starts up and never ends.  That's a pretty good reason to keep momentum going.