So, now that Rise of Flight is on Steam...

[bob48]

This is one type of customization tweaking, in many modern flight sims, that takes up so much time.  I feel as if I'm screwing with the settings more than playing, and with some titles I can never get it just right.  >:(

I appreciate that, but RoF is just so great IMO that I'll offer one final bit of advice...

As well as using S curves, try moving the centre of the pitch curve down.  You can do this in flight via options and the idea is to move the curve until your chosen plane is flying level when the stick is centred at say 80% throttle.  For me this made a huge difference to the usability of most of the planes when it comes to fighting.

Purists will say that you're diluting the experience of flying things like the Camel and Dr1 by doing this, but I think that really you're compensating for not having a FFB stick.

Interesting. I need to experiment with my settings as well. This is something that's been giving me a lot of trouble - just trying to hold a stable flight is hard work. As it stands, shooting something else down is proving to be be just about impossible.

[Nefaro]

However, it's not so much keeping pitch in check as it is compensating for roll.  Although my HOTAS has a big rocker switch that can be used as a rudder control, it's usually pretty hamfisted so I generally use the joy twist and that can be murderous for ye olde nerve pain.  Looks like tweaking the rocker will be added to the list.

I still have yet to do more tweaking to all the joystick settings.  The S-curve definitely helped on the pitch sensitivity but I'll probably have to tweak even more before it's in a comfortable spot.  I've not even touched the other axes.

Are you sure that you didn't mean compensating for yaw, not roll? Your joystick twist is for rudder(yaw) control, not roll. Your joystick X axis is used to control roll. You should be using rudder pedals anyway, as that will alleviate some of the pain from using the joystick.

Yes, I meant yaw.  Rudder.  It's often one of the touchier ones which I can't quite get set to my liking.  I don't plan on dropping another eighty or ninety bucks on a set of rudder pedals since I've spent about two-hundred on a HOTAS and TrackIR earlier this year.  While I enjoy flight sims, I also only play them in small spurts so can't justify spending more on hardware just now.  It would be nice, but I'm hitting the brakes on flight sim hardware purchases for awhile.  ;) 

Also, are you calibrating your joystick within Windows before you start flying for the first time? Allegedly, you're not supposed to have to calibrate anymore, but I've found sometimes that if you don't, your controls may off a bit.

No, I don't have to calibrate this HOTAS system.  It's always dead center, unlike one of the cheapies I have sitting around somewhere that always needed some tinkering. I also thankfully don't need any dead zone in the one I use.  It's been a huge improvement over the cheapies, and I'm quite happy I picked it up.  Wasn't too pricey either.

As to manually controlling the radiator and fuel mixture, that is optional. I believe they are disabled by default, and you have to actually go into the game settings to enable them. There are also other settings to help out if you're not comfy with the full realism thang.

As to their DRM, it's not been a pain in my experience. I don't know why toonces has such a problem with it. You only have to log in "online" to get updates or new planes. Any other time you start the game, you can log in "offline", which just launches you right into the game without connecting to the server.

Good to know about the engine management stuff.   

The game itself is quite nice.  It will just take some time for me to screw with the settings so that I'm comfortable with them.  Most sims' joystick axes don't utilize all that much of the joystick range.  I feel they often ramp up sensitivity too quickly and then leave some of the furtheest ranges from center unused.  Yet I'm wary of pushing the sensitivity off the scale, so that the highest parts are unreachable, in the odd case I may feel the need to jam it to eleven.

For some reason, the simple "joystick sensitivity" slider in the Third Wire games, and it's joy sensitivity in general, handles much better.  There's not one axis that feels out of proportion and the sensitivity doesn't start out excessive by default.  This is probably just personal preference for the most part, but it's something I need to tweak into my comfort zone to enjoy a flight sim.  That takes more time with some titles than others. 

[jomni]

I have never shot anything down on ROF.  And I lost interest really quickly because of that.

[Nefaro]

I have never shot anything down on ROF.  And I lost interest really quickly because of that.

Perhaps you, too, needed to adjust joystick sensitivity so that even small movements of the stick doesn't jerk your plane all over?  :P

That sounded kinda filthy.  ???

[jomni]

I have never adjusted sensitivity in any Sim. Third wire, Falcon, DCS, FSX, X-Plane. Too lazy.   ;)

[JudgeDredd]

I have never shot anything down on ROF.  And I lost interest really quickly because of that.

Yeah but you don't shoot anything down in FSX and you're ALWAYS playing that  :D

Same boat here though...can't shoot a damned thing and gave up - purely because of that. It's a great sim and the flying and feel is fantastic - but it's no fun flying a crate that shoots stuff but you simply can't.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

You guys should hop on the New Wings tutorial server.  I'm sure some of the guys there can walk you through gunnery and have you hitting targets in no time.

[Toonces]

If you're really getting frustrated (which it sounds like you are) consider trying late war rides.  I'm pretty sure I flew a 1918 bird once that had incendiary ammo and that is far more effective than normal bullets.

[Nefaro]

Surprisingly, most of the other axes were fine on default.  It's just the pitch axis that was so touchy. 

Yet some of these aircraft types have some ridiculous flight characteristics.  I can understand the torque forcing your aircraft to roll one way, and some of the extra pitch.  However, flying the Nieuport 28 just made me shake my head.  The natural pitch upward is just insane!  I was curious just how much forward joystick I would have to use to negate it, and it turned out to be approximately 36% !!!  Yes, Precious, that's pushing forward one-third of your pitch range just to keep it flying somewhat level! 

Makes me wonder just how exaggerated some of these effects are for some of these aircraft.  You'd think the aerodynamic design of the plane would have some accommodation for such extreme side effects.   I suppose this has been the topic of constant debate in ROF circles?  I know it should be there.. but it was pretty crazy in the N28 example.  I didn't see it to such extent in the others that come with the base pack.  ???

Ultimately, I couldn't move the axis curve to compensate anywhere near as much as it needed.  Moving it so far in one direction cuts off too much axis range at the other end so pulling back with that much adjustment would never reach the top end of the curve.  :-\


I've had some fun with the DVII, Albatross DV, and the SPADXIII thus far.  Those are pretty fun, although I have a tendency to put the SPAD into a spin when diving to the right sometimes.  The SE5a is okay but I tend to get outmaneuvered too much so I need to figure out it's strengths.   Ze German ones are definitely more forgiving.

[MengJiao]

Surprisingly, most of the other axes were fine on default.  It's just the pitch axis that was so touchy. 

Yet some of these aircraft types have some ridiculous flight characteristics.  I can understand the torque forcing your aircraft to roll one way, and some of the extra pitch.  However, flying the Nieuport 28 just made me shake my head.  The natural pitch upward is just insane!  I was curious just how much forward joystick I would have to use to negate it, and it turned out to be approximately 36% !!!  Yes, Precious, that's pushing forward one-third of your pitch range just to keep it flying somewhat level! 

Makes me wonder just how exaggerated some of these effects are for some of these aircraft.  You'd think the aerodynamic design of the plane would have some accommodation for such extreme side effects.   I suppose this has been the topic of constant debate in ROF circles?  I know it should be there.. but it was pretty crazy in the N28 example.  I didn't see it to such extent in the others that come with the base pack.  ???

Ultimately, I couldn't move the axis curve to compensate anywhere near as much as it needed.  Moving it so far in one direction cuts off too much axis range at the other end so pulling back with that much adjustment would never reach the top end of the curve.  :-\


I've had some fun with the DVII, Albatross DV, and the SPADXIII thus far.  Those are pretty fun, although I have a tendency to put the SPAD into a spin when diving to the right sometimes.  The SE5a is okay but I tend to get outmaneuvered too much so I need to figure out it's strengths.   Ze German ones are definitely more forgiving.

  You can set the trim on these.  that might help.  I'm off to Stalingrad, comrade.

[JasonPratt]

It occurs to me that the N28 might have been especially tail draggy? That would push the nose up more than expected.

Still, why wouldn't designers or even field mechanics rig a fix, even a crooked stick that pushed forward in actuality at level flight for the pilot?

The end result either way would certainly be a plane that didn't naturally dive well (because the ailrons or wing warping couldn't be pushed far enough) except at lower engine speeds.

[Nefaro]

It occurs to me that the N28 might have been especially tail draggy? That would push the nose up more than expected.

Still, why wouldn't designers or even field mechanics rig a fix, even a crooked stick that pushed forward in actuality at level flight for the pilot?

The end result either way would certainly be a plane that didn't naturally dive well (because the ailrons or wing warping couldn't be pushed far enough) except at lower engine speeds.

The thing is.. many biplane wings of the time were slanted downward toward the rear.  So that should give it a natural nose-down tendency, along with the extra flap-like lift and air resistance, the faster they go.  My first guess would be to help offset such things as the upward engine force.

[Staggerwing]

The end result either way would certainly be a plane that didn't naturally dive well (because the ailrons or wing warping couldn't be pushed far enough) except at lower engine speeds.

Wing warping (and ailerons) are for rolling the plane. The elevator is for adjusting pitch up and down, and the rudder for yaw.

[Nefaro]

Been enjoying this, after getting used to the controls.  I still have to push nose-down quite a bit in most aircraft, but I'll get over it because these old crates are interesting to fly.  Kinda nice not having to have my head down, punching buttons in the cockpit all the time.  Just a stick and trigger and the pretty scenery.  :D

I've not started a Career yet.  Been getting used to some of the aircraft in quick missions and the 'Fly Now' thing.   Since I picked up the Albatross D.III pack, I'll probably start a German career soon since the Albatrosses and the Fokker D.VII don't have much in the way of weird stalling tendencies & recovery methods. 

While I did so-so in a quick mission with the Camel, a near stall at very low altitude scared the corn right out of me.  Although I stopped it by a hair, halfway into it and I'm not all that sure with the stick controls yet.  It also felt quite difficult to steady the nose for a good shot.. not very stable for me, in a slow steady turn or flying straight.  I do enjoy flying the SPADs.  I find the biggest difficulty is keeping sight of an enemy around me while still trying to keep the orientation of my plane in mind.  Even with a TrackIR, it's difficult to get a feel for where I'm heading and how close to stalling I am while trying to keep sight of the enemy in a dogfight.  Especially in a climb or dive. Which is where such energy fighters gotta be quite often.  The lack of the sensation of motion means I gotta be looking forward more than I'd like, instead of keeping eyes on the target.  Which regularly results in losing sight of the target when I keep glance back & forth, and that's absolutely no good in a dogfight.  Fortunately, I've nearly tweaked my TrackIR profile quite well so it's a bit easier to glance about but no amount of tweaking will help you get the feel of movement to help you keep your head locked on the enemy plane.  That's the toughest thing to learn in these flight sims.

[JasonPratt]

I can't believe I mixed up ailerons and elevators...  >:( Clearly I've been away from flight sims for waaaaaaay too long.

Nef, I have a theory that for twitchy aircraft it's better not to focus on the enemy, i.e. don't keep your head locked on the enemy plane, but mostly watch where you're flying with occasional head movements (via controls or IR or whatever) to check what the enemy is doing.

Like in real life: first, fly the plane. When you're good enough at that you'll naturally feel comfortable not looking where you're going (but extrapolating from where you're looking at), then keep track of the enemy with occasional lookbacks to your flight path. (Reversing the original idea.)

But in any case, don't lock on an enemy unless he's in the direction you're trying to fly. If you're trying to fly left to do a maneuver to eat up some space/speed as part of an S-curve to bring your enemy in front of you or otherwise break his tailing, don't track your enemy right or behind you, look ahead with occasional checks. But if your enemy is to the left and you're trying to catch up by flying to the left, then track the enemy if you've learned the plane's quirks enough to avoid problems doing so.