World in Flames (Matrixgames) looking for beta testers (multiplayer)

[smittyohio]

You could kind of "split" it...use the game, and keep the beautiful manuals for your Christmas

Just sayin  ;)

I don't even think you'll need to install it before Xmas... Just watching the videos and reading the manuals will take into next year.   :-)

Have to install in order to play the videos and read the PDFs :). If i do that, will have little will power to not fire up the game itself.

Doh.. good point  ;-)    Well, you could install, grab the videos and pdfs, and then UN-install...

[ArizonaTank]

I'm not terribly surprised.  I don't think that the game sold that well (I very well may be wrong on that) so if a sale gets those on the fence that perhaps have never tried a "true" boardgame conversion to leap, then perhaps they will see that it really is a great game/port and that perhaps, just perhaps, they will turn an eye towards that other big boardgame port that recently came out (the name of which escapes me at the moment  ;) ).

Strange....I love the board game, but the Matrix port just never felt right IMHO.

[jomni]

A big realization....

I found out that the game has yet to implememt all optional rules.  The status is indicated in the manual.

So if the manual is a living document, why do we need hard copies?

Also, MWiF will never be at par with WiF because developments in the boardgame will take time to be coded and matrix may not even attempt to do so. Looks like MWiF is not definitive.

Anyway since I don't follow WiF, I'm still interested in MWiF. Just not sure when to jump in.

[jomni]

Tonight.  I was really ready to pull the trigger.  But chickened out.

[JudgeDredd]

This was posted by Shannon the developer at Matrix

You won't need to have as many forms visible once you learn the basics. New players often want to keep the terrain effects chart, status indicators help form, etc. visible at all times.

Once the printed manual arrive, players will be able to keep them open to the appendices where most of the help information is shown, instead of needing to use screen real estate for that purpose. This is one of the reasons that we believe the printed manuals are necessary.

Now there are a couple of things wrong with this post.

1. Why is having the manual next to you any better than on screen help...because looking at the screenshots, the info is on several pages anyway...so it's not like (same with the screen) it's there in front of you all the time - the pages will be turned and therefore not there in front of you all the time.
2. If those aspects are what makes the manuals essential, why not have them as addendum cards/sheets?
3. They are NOT necessary. It's absolutely ludicrous and, if I may say, arrogant for Matrix/Slitherine/Shannon to tell people these manuals are required for their enjoyment of the game.

"This is why we believe..." that may be why you believe - but why the hell do you not give people the option not to - let them decide. It's their choice is it not whether they'd prefer the printed manuals, pdf manuals or whether they want to look at the pdfs on their iPad or tablet...isn't it?

We're really, really lucky they didn't force another monitor with the package - I mean, if they know the manuals are required for us to enjoy the game, then what was to stop them saying "Hey...you know how best to enjoy this game? Using two monitors...one for the game and one for the PDFs (even though we're forcing the manuals on you). So because we have your best interests at heart and we know you'll like them, we've bundled another monitor in for you...it's all about the physical product with this release"

And I think that's what's at the crux of the issue...who the hell is a gaming publisher to tell gamers what they think is best from a purchasing perspective? Gamers know what's best for them - and it's options.

There is actually absolutely no known valid reason why the manuals and the extra shipping costs incurred are being forced on gamers - and with Matrix/Slitherine being silent over the issue with the exception of their bullshit marketing bollox, then people are annoyed they are being misled and for reasons they cannot fathom. That's what's annoying gamers over there...being treated like imbiciles instead of grown men (who play games  :P ).

And it's not about they aren't liking the answer they get and are banging on about having a new answer until it's the answer they want - they just don't buy the crap answer that was given. Matrix/Slitherine have the right to sell this game with the physical manuals or not - but gamers over their want to know the genuine reason why Matrix is refusing to take their money...they smell a rat - and I don't blame them.

Anyway - I'm going to stop reading over there about it. I was reading about it because I was extremely interested in the game. I've made a couple of posts over there against my better judgement. I think (I've said lots of times) it looks stunning and the manuals look great but it's just doing my head in reading people simply wanting an honest answer to a genuine question and others telling them to STFU and no company response apart from marketing bollox.

Something happened when Slitherine joined/merged/took over Matrix and imo it wasn't for the better in terms of engaging the community. The company engagement with gamers changed and the people on the forum seemed to also. The whole feel of the place changed.

GR I don't particularly mind if you aren't opening the game until Christmas...I was just teasing. I can't get the game until the distribution centre opens in Europe which is Feb/March (May/June?)...but I will be looking for your impressions after Christmas  ;)

[BanzaiCat]

Having worked with them in the past, the prevailing attitude then was that a good game manual is a talisman of sorts, wistfully looking back to the games of the 80s and 90s where you had something of an encyclopedia that wasn't just about describing how to play the game, but also giving immersive info on the time period, personalities, weapons, and so on.

The WiF manual for this game was something of a nightmare from the beginning, but it's good to see they got a handle on it. Hopefully, anyway.

That all said, I agree it certainly should be given as an option to players. Previously Matrix used Cafe Press to give gamers the option of printing their own manuals should they want to, and I thought that was an excellent system. I'm surprised they're trying to move away from it, unless this WiF manual is such a beast that they figure they need to make some money off it as well...which I don't think will end well.

[undercovergeek]

there was a time they wanted to make all purchasers of WitP:AE also HAVE to buy WitP first - there was a massive outcry and they backed down but it took a long time and a lot of shouting to convince them theyd made a mistake

[Grim.Reaper]

I think the problem now is even if they wanted to back down and change direction and have a DD version available, how would they make it right with all the people who already purchased it?  That could even be a bigger mess.  Certainly over time products have changed their sales strategy so it is not impossible for it to happen, I just think it would have to come at a much later time so that current purchasers don't go crazy if they suddenly offered the option.

As a recent purchaser, I personally wouldn't be upset if they immediately changed their policy on the game since I think it would be in the long term best interests of the game to attract more people.  But I do know that likely a ton of other people would not feel the same and likely go nuts over it:)

[JudgeDredd]

I agree totally and therefore I don't think there's a u-turn any time soon.

But it's not a u-turn necessarily that people want. Just "the truth".

[Grim.Reaper]

I agree totally and therefore I don't think there's a u-turn any time soon.

But it's not a u-turn necessarily that people want. Just "the truth".

Gotcha and completely understand......guessing we won't get much more than what has been speculated/stated about the books somehow being part of the licensing deal and the fact they felt "we needed to have physical books" to enjoy/play the game.  I personally completely disagree with the decision as many others have stated, no way anyone can convince me that a physical book is absolutely required to play a game, especially in this day in age when electronic books are most popular and no other computer game in world "requires" it to play.  So my bet is it somehow is tied to the licensing agreement and/or financial payback......I am guessing this is why official Matrix folks deciding not to participate in those discussions since not really a great answer:(  Really haven't seen any Matrix personnel at all visit and participate in WIF forums since the release, which is strange for such a major release for them.

[JudgeDredd]

Hi everyone,

We have read all the comments on this. We are listening and we'll be discussing this tomorrow. I can't promise that any changes will be possible, but I don't want you to feel that we are ignoring you and that you are unheard.

Regards,

- Erik

At last!

[Grim.Reaper]

Hi everyone,

We have read all the comments on this. We are listening and we'll be discussing this tomorrow. I can't promise that any changes will be possible, but I don't want you to feel that we are ignoring you and that you are unheard.

Regards,

- Erik

At last!

It will be interesting to see what they come up with......

[JudgeDredd]

lol - for all my vocality over it, the likelihood is it would be nothing that can help me anyway.

My need is a European distribution centre to get rid of the potential[/] customs tax and to remove the £28+VAT (£33 or $52) shipping charge!

But - an answer is all I and a lot of people sought. I'm stuck until March anyway...and I think the likelihood is I will get it. What I am going to do is stay "out the pit" over there, but read up on some AARs. Some of the mechanics I've seen I really like, scrapping units, lend lease etc and as I've already mentioned the graphics are right up my street.

We'll see.

[jomni]

Hi everyone,

We have read all the comments on this. We are listening and we'll be discussing this tomorrow. I can't promise that any changes will be possible, but I don't want you to feel that we are ignoring you and that you are unheard.

Regards,

- Erik

At last!


What!?  I just bought it.  :)  No worries though.

[JudgeDredd]

lol. Didn't take you long either Jomni  ;D

I would've been with you both - in fact I'm pretty sure I would've caved earlier.