Evolution of Games ?

[ComradeP]

The debate about whether a game is unfinished and you need DLC to get some additional features, or whether the game is as the designers intended and you get additional content is a difficult one because there is often no objective way of determining whether the game can truly be called unfinished in the sense that the developers force you to buy the DLC. There are exceptions, such as games where content is already on the disc, or the popular unlockable content model for console games (or their PC ports). The expansions we could buy for our games prior to when they were called DLC were in the vast majority of cases just updated versions of the original game. From a technical perspective, those could have been shipped with the original product after a longer development time in many cases as they didn't include significant engine overhauls.

DRM is a bigger problem than it was in the 1990's, when all you needed was a serial key. It's difficult to argue against that.

As noted earlier in the thread, games that were released prior to the widespread availability of the internet could be pretty rough at the edges, and you had no way of fixing things. Also keep in mind that graphics, and even most gameplay elements (for example: the lack of realistic physics) were simpler, which reduced the chances of something not working. There was also a more limited variety of hardware, reducing compatibility issues.

In recent years, there do seem to be fewer exclusive triple A PC titles in genres where you don't really need a mouse, as many of the good games are also available on consoles or were available on consoles first and were ported. That also resulted in simplification and streamlining of genres, a development I regret.

I hate limited licenses, and also feel some games are released at a high price considering their state at release, but I still feel there are many polished products available. As stated above, I do have the feeling there are fewer exclusive PC games than before aside from wargames.

[JudgeDredd]

I P500'd (pre-ordered) GMT Games' "The Supreme Commander".  Soon after it arrived, people began to notice errors in the printing.  Almost immediately, GMT Games announced that they would be sending out new maps, countersheets, charts and an updated rules book to everyone that P500'd the game at no cost to the customer.  I've had countersheets that were misaligned during printing.  MMP replaced them at no cost with no questions asked. ..

They aren't all like that. Lock n Loads game I purchased had mis-aligned counters on print. I contacted them but although they replied it wasn't positive. Basiclaly, they had none spare - so I was stuck with them. I posted pics here too - they were quite badly mis-aligned.

I didn't mind really - they were usable. Just pointing out that good customer care isn't necessarily widespread across the boardgaming community either.

I like Steam. Like Toonces, if it goes belly up - I'll cry for a bit - but I'm happy with a library of games which I can download quickly and easily. I feel for people who do not have fast internet capability though.

However - I did use to love popping into town and looking at what was out or what was on offer. I also like to get my arse down there on release day for a big game.

The "piracy" bollox is just that. As Nefaro says, the problem has been perpetuated by the DRM businesses and embellished by them to feed their own mouths. Sure it happens. But I do not believe for a second that it's as big as they suggest. I absolutely do not believe for one second that they're "solutions" stop piracy and I certainly don't believe that punishing your paying public is they way to go.

I'm not a huge fan of online activation and I'm certainly not wanting to go back to "page 5, paragraph 2 word 4" when the manual was misprinted!

All in all - I'm neither a huge fan of where it's going nor am I a huge fan of where it's been. I'm indifferent. I don't recall any "glory" years and I don't think what it holds now is bad either. Sure - they are finding ways to squeeze more money out of their products - welcome to the world of capitalism. As long as the game I buy has the playability and a decent gaming experience for the money they charge, I'm cool.

Don't forget - whilst this is all going on - one HUGE plus we have at our fingertips that we never used to have is the internet. When a game was released back in the day, you used to either go out and buy it and find out how shite it was or you waited a month for the review magazine to come out. Now - you have a plethora of sites and forums giving you instant feedback. Now  you can "hurry up and wait" for the release.

I tend to think, at the moment, it's more good than bad in the gaming world...though I see some things that may be round the corner I'm not too happy about - but for now, I'm a happy gamer I think.  ;D

[jomni]

1980 -  1990
Full game
No internet
Shipped with a bug.  No way to deliver a fix. Just buy the next iteration of the game.

Software is now a service and not a commodity and a lot of people are still stuck with the commodity perspective.

[Grim.Reaper]

To me, the biggest difference from back then compared to now is the internet and the amount of information made available to the gamer.  When a game was released in the old days it likely had just as much issues as games now, but the issues weren't obvious because I could not always see them myself.  However with all the forums nowadays a million people point out the problems, even if I would have never seen them myself.  In many cases I read the forums and get overwhelmed with the reported issues which dampers my excitement in even playing the game.  Some times I try and stay away from the forums and reviews, but the information is so widely available, it is hard to do.

[JudgeDredd]

^ That's a good point - I've read of errors before and they diminish my enthusiasm for the game.

Mind you - there is the other side where you buy a game and are sorely disappointed - often reading about the short comings is more beneficial than not.

[GJK]

Unfortunately for PC game companies, piracy has taken a huge toll on their profits and now there is deep paranoia by many (most) software developers that makes purchasing, licensing, updating, uninstalling/reinstalling a chore (to be polite).

This is a common misconception perpetuated by DRM software companies and some of the more nefarious game publishers.   There is no "huge toll on their profits", although some of them would like everyone to believe it.

In truth, they didn't lose any sales.

Interesting to know.  I guess I've removed myself from computer gaming more than I thought!  :)

Someone mentioned STEAM, I like it and have had no problems with it.  As mentioned, I think Matrix has a very fair process.  I wish that was the standard.  I don't care for the online registration and the "phone home" stuff. I don't feel like being a suspect just because I dare opt to purchase a game and want to install it on my computer.  I'll just have gameleaper write all of my future PC games.  :)

[OJsDad]

Well, gee...I've been gaming since Atari 2600, TI-99A and TRS-80 days.  Just how far back to I have to have game to be considered an old gamer?   ::)   ;D

I started gaming on my first computer, ZX-81.  Then moved up to and Atari 800XL.

[GJK]

Well, gee...I've been gaming since Atari 2600, TI-99A and TRS-80 days.  Just how far back to I have to have game to be considered an old gamer?   ::)   ;D

I started gaming on my first computer, ZX-81.  Then moved up to and Atari 800XL.

I started gaming before there were personal computers.  :D

[JudgeDredd]

I joined up to play war games  ;D

[FarAway Sooner]

42 gotta be close to an old-time gamer.  I'm only a few years older than that, and I can remember loading Wampus up on University computer that a friend of my parents had access to.  Sure, the punch cards took a while to load, but that anticipation was half the fun.

I think games have always had their challenges.  The first PC title I ever bought for myself, Temple of Apshai, wouldn't boot up on my Commodore 64 except about one try in four.  I was pissed, too, because I'd splurged and gone for the fancy new 5 1/4" diskette rather than the crappy, unreliable tape drives.  Of course, my friend's copy of Hellfire Warrior had the same problem on the TRS-80 (both copies did).

Old games that didn't work simply didn't work.  Not that their game play didn't work.  The file load process didn't work.  I'm sure it was dust on my floppy drive, but of course, the expensive floppy drive cleaner kits didn't seem to make much difference either...

I do think that the flow of information now is so much faster.  Prior to 1995, there just wasn't much public information out there on games even after they came out.  You relied on word-of-mouth, for better or for worse.  Now, you find out more about games 6 months before release than you knew about most games after they came out.

That can be a good thing or a bad thing, but it definitely affects perceptions.  I'm not sure it's better or worse, just different. 

[MengJiao]

In recent years, there do seem to be fewer exclusive triple A PC titles in genres where you don't really need a mouse, as many of the good games are also available on consoles or were available on consoles first and were ported. That also resulted in simplification and streamlining of genres, a development I regret.

  I don't want to rain on anyone's regrets, but I think a lot of recent developments are very promising for people like me who like games that do what they can to get at real historical processes -- that's not even a niche, it's a vague expectation that someday there will be such a niche.  For example, Crusader Kings II, while being simplistic in some ways, does try to situate itself in some kind of historical world -- which has included the dreaded patches and steam and DLC and mods.
  For me the growing possibilities of fluid game systems of increasing sophistication that allow for collaborative mods completely outweighs all the other seemingly unfortunate changes in the dynamics of PC gaming.  I'm interested in the possibility that the day will come when one can say build a gamey-simulation of a Russian Army in 1943 from the POV of its commander as a role to be played.  I'm interested in the possibility that the day will come when one can construct gamey simulations of Levantine Kingdoms of the Bronze age -- complete with seasonal changes and deforestation and exploding volcanos as needed.

[Waldorf]

Some interesting perspectives and opinions.
I agree that through the internet we can read more reviews and Metacritic is my go-to site for a general indication of how well-received a game is.
I see that games have changed from a commodity into a service, as Jomni points out and that is a fair point. I do accept that, but I don't like it.
I like to own and play my games the way I want, not how someone else wants.

What has happened is that the sales & marketing of games has been integrated into the game itself and to some degree, puts a bit of a barrier between the experience. If I click an icon to play a game, I kind of expect it to go straight into the game.

What pissed me was buying Grand Theft Auto 4, then having to sign into STEAM,  then Rockstar Social Club, then Register and sign into Windows Games Live. That's 3 hoops I had to jump through before I could even play. By that time I felt like I wanted to do something else.

Then when I had to do a reinstall, I found out my game saves were not even being saved on Windows Live, so what benefits do I get from my gaming experience through all of this?

I'm 47 now and my first war games were Avalon Hill's Third Reich, Axis & Allies and then I got into SPI series games, GDW Third World War and so on.
My first computer wargame was Universal Military Simulator II on the Amiga and then Civilization on the PC so maybe I am stuck in the old days.

The upside of current gaming for me is that graphical quality has gone through the roof. When its combined with a great storyline and great gameplay it's a winner. Skyrim and XCOM Enemy Unknown are superb games and I got that 'classic' game feel and enjoyment with them right out the box.

I'm looking to be pleasantly surprised in the coming years by better and more enjoyable games and I'm still looking for a better WW2 Grand Strategy experience!

[JudgeDredd]

^ I had the same issues but with Max Payne in that I signed in with Windows Live (I think it used Windows Live) and then had to sign into Rockstar - but I coouldn't remember my password - and I couldn't see anyway of getting it sent to me.

In the end, I gave up, uninstalled it and swore I would not buy another game that required Windows Live, Rockstar Social Club or any other game that required some community login. It's just not worth the aggro.

I will continue to whittle down my PC game purchases based on DRM that gets in the way of me playing the game...there's really no need for me to dance their tune when I've bought their game.

If push comes to shove, and it may well do if games continue to be obtuse with their DRM, I'll give up and go to boardgaming...which I LOVE anyway.

I would like to say I'd just keep buying from Matrix - but their prices get higher and higher for the kind of games I like (to think I like)...and if I'm going to spend that kind of money on a game, I'd prefer it, more often than not and if it's available, to be a boardgame.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

1980 -  1990
Full game
No internet
Shipped with a bug.  No way to deliver a fix. Just buy the next iteration of the game.

Software is now a service and not a commodity and a lot of people are still stuck with the commodity perspective.

What is that supposed to mean? Sign adoption papers then give the developers an allowance for the rest of their lives?

[GJK]

I'm still looking for a better WW2 Grand Strategy experience!

Me too.  And one that has an AI.  Oh no I just didn't!