Scourge of War: Waterloo! announced

[jomni]

I am looking forward to this....and will buy.  But from the videos, it looks like the biggest "suspension of disbelief" killer for me is still in the system: when two lines of friendly troops create a "cross" because they can't coordinate where to stand.  Here is hoping they fix this someday....

Sad to say, Histwar2 still looks more impressive.  Rely on the French to do the French well.  But I bet the game-play of SOW is better.

[mikeck]

I am looking forward to this....and will buy.  But from the videos, it looks like the biggest "suspension of disbelief" killer for me is still in the system: when two lines of friendly troops create a "cross" because they can't coordinate where to stand.  Here is hoping they fix this someday....

This is the biggest issue for me. Watching a regiment stand in between two other regiments who are shooting at each other while it spins in circles.
I dare you to try and get your divisions to attack without ending up with something that looks likes a handful of dropped matchsticks

I love the game but that is always what get me. Fix it

[RyanE]

Histwar has its own set of issues that you would need an entire thread to cover.  I am still not sure what version I own.

[fabius]

.....

In a typical campaign game, you will be splitting your forces to cover more ground and leave garrisons in "objective cities" and therefore you are constantly balancing between covering as much ground as possible (thereby potentially isolating enemy groups) and having a strong local superiority to break through the enemy lines.

This is reassuring that it will not merely be biggest stacks running round until meeting.

[Philippe]

In the strategic layer, you can manage your army and move them from town to town in real time. If two opposing armies meet, a battle is generated based on the troops that were meeting.

In a typical campaign game, you will be splitting your forces to cover more ground and leave garrisons in "objective cities" and therefore you are constantly balancing between covering as much ground as possible (thereby potentially isolating enemy groups) and having a strong local superiority to break through the enemy lines.

Not sure the garrison part makes sense for the Waterloo campaign.  It doesn't even work too well for the campaign for France in 1814.  Worrying about garrisons sounds a bit too much like you're modeling a computer game rather than a Napoleonic campaign.

For all of their faults, one nice thing about the Tiller games is that they can give you a very good feel for what was going on at the campaign level.  Tiller's Waterloo game has several campaign options (and huge maps) that cover the entire Waterloo campaign from the moment the French crossed the border into what is now Belgium.  That kind of treatment would not be possible in the Norbsoft version and the current generation of computers.

The Waterloo campaign was very short, so most of the issues you would need to address in a serious treatment of a campaign don't need to apply.  You probably don't need to worry too much about modeling food consumption in a campaign that lasts less than a week, but you should include ammunition dumps and wagons.

[Slick Wilhelm]

Are the columns used by the French at Waterloo going to be available to form into? From what I've been reading, unlike a typical American Civil War column, the French used a column formation that resembled a brick. It was this type of column that d'Erlon's corps used during his attack.

[Asid]

Scourge of War - The Waterloo Diaries Part 3

Published on 4 Jun 2015

Today the producer of Scourge of War: Waterloo is presenting the different infantry formations available in the game. So if you're not already familiar with skirmish or square formations, it's high time to learn these tactics that may change the tide of a battle in the game !

[Philippe]

I'm not sure about this, but what I don't see is the ability to form a battalion into line or column and put one of its companies into skirmish order in front of it. 

In other words, the formation mechanic seems to be a carry-over from the Civil War games.

I really hope that is not the case.

French infantry was classified as light, line, or grenadier, and a battalion would have companies of all three types with slightly different uniforms in its oob.  The light infantry company would get into skirmish order and screen the line companies and the grenadier company.

You couldn't do this in the Civil War game, but you didn't need to because skirmishers were not as prevalent or important by the middle of the 19th century as they had been in Napoleonic times.

[mirth]

Are the columns used by the French at Waterloo going to be available to form into? From what I've been reading, unlike a typical American Civil War column, the French used a column formation that resembled a brick. It was this type of column that d'Erlon's corps used during his attack.

I thought D'Erlon screwed up his deployments at Waterloo and ended up with a mess?

[Philippe]

Complex formations that are larger than battalions are just a matter of what formation the individual battalions are in and where you put those battalion formations relative to each other. 

Three battalions can be formed into a nice ordre mixte very easily just by putting a battalion in line formation between two battalions in column formation. 

I don't think any game really needs special rules to simulate what D'Erlon did at Waterloo or Macdonald did at Wagram, as long as things are being portrayed correctly at battalion level.

The battalion formations are the building blocks of the larger ones.

[mikeck]

Well formations or no....I'm looking for a realtime accurately scaled napoleonic game and since Histwar Napoeon is ...incomplete...options are limited. First day buy

[Grim.Reaper]

Well formations or no....I'm looking for a realtime accurately scaled napoleonic game and since Histwar Napoeon is ...incomplete...options are limited. First day buy

+1....can't wait until next week.  I have the most limited knowledge on Napoleonic warfare so I likely wouldn't notice anyway:)

[jomni]

Complex formations that are larger than battalions are just a matter of what formation the individual battalions are in and where you put those battalion formations relative to each other. 

Three battalions can be formed into a nice ordre mixte very easily just by putting a battalion in line formation between two battalions in column formation. 

I don't think any game really needs special rules to simulate what D'Erlon did at Waterloo or Macdonald did at Wagram, as long as things are being portrayed correctly at battalion level.

The battalion formations are the building blocks of the larger ones.

You're saying it's up to the player to combine. But does the AI also do it as well. Is there actually any benefit for doing it the way they did it during the Napoleonic wars?

Anyway enough if thrle ranting. Here's a nice writeup of tactics and formations. http://vintagewargaming.blogspot.sg/2011/02/by-request-1-napoleonic-fighting.html?m=1
I'm definitely buying this game when it gets out.

[ArizonaTank]

Well formations or no....I'm looking for a realtime accurately scaled napoleonic game and since Histwar Napoeon is ...incomplete...options are limited. First day buy

It is a shame about Histwar.  Because the formations were spot on.  Not just that, but the special troops (grenadiers, voltigeurs, drummer, officers, and sappers) were all in their proper places.  And wearing proper uniforms. 

The videos of this game make it seem like it is not as accurate....but that won't stop me from buying; and I hope my impressions are wrong.  I will be a little tweaked however if it turns out the game is just the Civil War with squares.... 

[sandman2575]

AT, are you talking about HW les Grognards or HW Napoleon (or maybe what you're saying applies to both)?  I was interested in HWLG for a long time but always held off buying because of its many well documented shortcomings, UI, etc. And had hopes for HWN, but it sounds like the game is in a "will probably never be completed" limbo, as has been the case for a few years now...

I'll almost certainly be picking up SOW Waterloo... but I still wonder about HW Napoleon (...kind of the same way that I wonder about the mysterious fate of Graviteam Tactics Mius Front, but that's a different story...)