New game from Slitherine, just announced. I don't know if this has been posted before, but from looking at the site, it looks exceptional.
1) Turn-based
2) Randomly generated maps AND forces for battles
3) Excellent graphics
http://www.slitherine.com/games/pike_shot_pc
This is looking very much like a must buy for me. I love the genre, and concept.
Quote from: DennisS on July 09, 2014, 12:34:54 PM
New game from Slitherine, just announced. I don't know if this has been posted before, but from looking at the site, it looks exceptional.
1) Turn-based
2) Randomly generated maps AND forces for battles
3) Excellent graphics
http://www.slitherine.com/games/pike_shot_pc
This is looking very much like a must buy for me. I love the genre, and concept.
I can't figure out if they fixed the graphics or THESE NEW READING GLASSES ARE AWESOME! I hope both!
Anyway, yes...it's like a dream come true: thousands of tiny musketeers shooting at each other.
Sigh...another must buy. Here just take my whole wallet. Take it!!
Yeah...Slitherine needs to take a break already. Its like they have me working to play, rather than playing to work, like its supposed to be.
Something may have posted about this before. Wasn't it using the Battle Academy engine? The screenshots are great. Looking forward to this one.
Quote from: Rayfer on July 09, 2014, 02:50:14 PM
Something may have posted about this before. Wasn't it using the Battle Academy engine? The screenshots are great. Looking forward to this one.
If it uses the Battle Academy engine, and has a slower paced movement for the units, then that's even better!
Day 1 buy
Looks like a mod for Battle Academy.
Units look like buildings.
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 09, 2014, 05:14:25 PM
Looks like a mod for Battle Academy.
Those blocky blocks of units still freak me out. :(
I could go for that. The unit 'blocks' are obviously based on contemporary illustrations. I quite like the effect.
Quote from: jomni on July 09, 2014, 05:26:07 PM
Units look like buildings.
I had no idea they were units, really thought they were buildings...interesting design choice.....
Contemporary illustrations like this one, I guess
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F2%2F2e%2FTercio.jpg&hash=f9dad7eb6a76696974ce82ab74c5b5fc76486954)
my problem with that is the contrast with the 'true to nature' depiction of the terrain. They do look slightly 'out of place'.
On the other hand, browsing the image gallery, Image #3 picked up my attention, where we can see several Tercios firing at each other at what would look like somewhat implausible distances and with some dodgy line of fires (the Imperial Tercio with oblique facing seems to be firing across the other Tercio in front of it). I'm assuming that each square is something like 200 x 200 meters - which would fit quite comfortably a Spanish Tercio (the pikemen in the cuadro, at the center of the formation, would occupy just about a 60 x 60 meters area, with the mangas, the arquebusiers/halberdiers skirmishing detachments in the corners, around it). It does look to me like the ranges are slightly off or abstracted in some way.
In any case, it's great to see a modern computer war game covering this period, which is one of my favorites to read about (I found "The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy" to be a great read).
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on July 09, 2014, 07:00:10 PM
Contemporary illustrations like this one, I guess
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F2%2F2e%2FTercio.jpg&hash=f9dad7eb6a76696974ce82ab74c5b5fc76486954)
In any case, it's great to see a modern computer war game covering this period, which is one of my favorites to read about (I found "The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy" to be a great read).
I second that. I don't think I had a very good idea of what the dynamics of the war were until I read that book. I suppose I must have suspected something or other about the structure of the HRE, but the book brings out the problems of defining the mutual responsibilities of sovereign entities and how much of that is due to the Peace of Westphalia.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 09, 2014, 07:18:37 PM
I second that. I don't think I had a very good idea of what the dynamics of the war were until I read that book. I suppose I must have suspected something or other about the structure of the HRE, but the book brings out the problems of defining the mutual responsibilities of sovereign entities and how much of that is due to the Peace of Westphalia.
That, and the importance of enacting sound fiscal policies to sustain armies and navies - that was the war winning wonder weapon of the French (which I think can be considered the 'winners').
Sounds like a strategy for EU.
The units in the screenshots remind me of 2mm Pike and Shot miniatures I've see online before.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1187.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz397%2FSoccerDJ04%2FTYW-2mm_zps38951f12.jpg&hash=175234693b094765c1834f83f6da20dfc96f4a69)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1187.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz397%2FSoccerDJ04%2FIMG_0303_zpse38b0521.jpg&hash=9d7c4ada1607e03a9e982ab83985297948d2313f)
I dig the graphics...they look almost as good as the minis!
Wow. Will be watching this.
I guess in the end, as long as the gameplay is fun and good, could care less about the graphics:) Saw in another place someone mentioned possible beta starting sometime in the Summer.
Looking carefully at Slitherine's site, I do have a couple of questions.
It does mention that in the randomized games, you will be able to choose your army, or have the computer choose it for you.
It doesn't specifically mention build points. As an old school miniatures player (1,500 point armies from Wargame Research Groups' army lists) THIS is what I want. Seriously..I was playing miniatures back in the mid '60's.
I love tinkering with armies. Dominion 4 is my latest interest, with their virtual limitless variety, and I would love to see this here as well.
Clearly, if you were the Swiss, in the 16th century, the centerpiece of your army would be the pike...but I want to have the ability to, within limitations, try different configurations.
Hi guys,
Pike & Shot is designed by Byzantine Games (Richard Boldley Scott, who also designed the table top rules system Field of Glory Renaissance) and The Lordz Games Studio who is taking care of all the art, maps and other media.
The screenshots are very early ones of one of the first Alpha builds. But the game is a bit of a dark horse and we have been working for a while now in the background on it, the game is catered around the 30 Years War time period. Additional expansions will allow you to explore the English Civil War and the 16th century Italian Wars. Very fun new game series that will hopefully surprise a few.
Last weeks we have been undertaking a big revamp on the units and terrain and you are correct the game`art style is inspired by contemporary paintings, lithographs and sketches.
Here is the game page:
http://www.slitherine.com/games/pike_shot_pc
I will try to keep you updated from to time, we are all working hard to get the game into Beta this summer. To be continued...
That's the kind of battles i want to play...
Oh dear, I am loving all these new turn based games. I need 48 hour days.....
Quote from: Lord Zimoa on July 10, 2014, 01:17:59 AM
Hi guys,
Pike & Shot is designed by Byzantine Games (Richard Boldley Scott, who also designed the table top rules system Field of Glory Renaissance) and The Lordz Games Studio who is taking care of all the art, maps and other media.
The screenshots are very early ones of one of the first Alpha builds. But the game is a bit of a dark horse and we have been working for a while now in the background on it, the game is catered around the 30 Years War time period. Additional expansions will allow you to explore the English Civil War and the 16th century Italian Wars. Very fun new game series that will hopefully surprise a few.
Last weeks we have been undertaking a big revamp on the units and terrain and you are correct the game`art style is inspired by contemporary paintings, lithographs and sketches.
Here is the game page:
http://www.slitherine.com/games/pike_shot_pc
I will try to keep you updated from to time, we are all working hard to get the game into Beta this summer. To be continued...
Do you think this will have any chance of being released this year? I also noticed, unless I missed, there are no forums setup for this game for discussion......all of your other "coming soon" games seem to have one so wasn't sure why this one did not. Unless, it is still a long ways off. Thanks.
All the announced games are for release within 2014, but more news soon.
SWEET :D
This one can't get released soon enough for me.
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek
On the other hand, browsing the image gallery, Image #3 picked up my attention, where we can see several Tercios firing at each other at what would look like somewhat implausible distances and with some dodgy line of fires (the Imperial Tercio with oblique facing seems to be firing across the other Tercio in front of it).
We are aware that the shooting ranges in the game are somewhat overgenerous. However, experience has shown that gamers do not like very short move distances, nor very short shooting ranges - however realistic they might be. In order to give the opportunity for several rounds of shooting against advancing enemy, the long musket shooting range needs to be equal to the mounted movement speed and double the normal infantry movement speed. To achieve this without reducing the infantry move to 1 square and cavalry to 2 squares, we have had to be generous with shooting ranges. Note, however, that shooting at long range is at half effect, so units will generally want to get closer to shoot effectively.
The LOS algorithm assumes that units in chequerboard have gaps between the units through which shooting can occur.
Units cannot shoot at targets more than 45 degrees from straight ahead. At targets more than 22.5 degrees from straight ahead, they shoot at half effect, because not all of the front rank can bring their muskets to bear.
So, a unit shooting at long range at a target more than 22.5 degrees from straight ahead would shoot rather ineffectually at 1/4 effect.
Quote from: DennisS
It doesn't specifically mention build points. As an old school miniatures player (1,500 point armies from Wargame Research Groups' army lists) THIS is what I want. Seriously..I was playing miniatures back in the mid '60's.
Yes the random map games have build points (if you choose not to have the computer decide your forces). Each army list has compulsory units and units that are selectable using points.
Most (but not all) of the historical scenarios also have some units selectable using points, but a much smaller proportion of the whole army.
The available points depends on the difficulty level selected.
Quote from: ByzantineGames on July 18, 2014, 05:36:57 AM
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek
On the other hand, browsing the image gallery, Image #3 picked up my attention, where we can see several Tercios firing at each other at what would look like somewhat implausible distances and with some dodgy line of fires (the Imperial Tercio with oblique facing seems to be firing across the other Tercio in front of it).
We are aware that the shooting ranges in the game are somewhat overgenerous. However, experience has shown that gamers do not like very short move distances, nor very short shooting ranges - however realistic they might be. In order to give the opportunity for several rounds of shooting against advancing enemy, the long musket shooting range needs to be equal to the mounted movement speed and double the normal infantry movement speed. To achieve this without reducing the infantry move to 1 square and cavalry to 2 squares, we have had to be generous with shooting ranges. Note, however, that shooting at long range is at half effect, so units will generally want to get closer to shoot effectively.
The LOS algorithm assumes that units in chequerboard have gaps between the units through which shooting can occur.
Units cannot shoot at targets more than 45 degrees from straight ahead. At targets more than 22.5 degrees from straight ahead, they shoot at half effect, because not all of the front rank can bring their muskets to bear.
So, a unit shooting at long range at a target more than 22.5 degrees from straight ahead would shoot rather ineffectually at 1/4 effect.
Hi!
thank you very much for the answer. I understand very well the design decision there: the comment regarding "experience has shown that gamers do not like very short move distances" is spot on. Nevertheless, as some who grew up into war games playing Machiavelli and similar over snail mail and e-mail, I don't mind that particular thing so much. Armies of the time might look they move as frozen molasses but when they hit you, they can hit like a tsunami :)
The thing that worried me about the shooting ranges is that of preserving the spirit of the epoch and what makes it special. Allowing Napoleonic Wars/American Civil War effective fire ranges will make it feel a bit like Napoleonic warfare with pikes. Which is colourful but not quite right. It is well documented that musketeers and arquebusiers were quite able to see their targets' expressions of horror quite clearly from a few yards away before getting their sorry heads blown up in a mix of gore and sulphur-scented smoke. A most curious period, where the Ancients' ways of war - phalanx-like formations made up of guys shoving at each other faces the pointy ends of very long poles - met the technological advances of the Renaissance.
I do understand that as a period it is a hard one to design a playable game about, it's a weird time, not quite like it had been before or after: maybe that's the reason it is such a rarely visited subject matter. And
I do appreciate very much the courage of tackling it. Just, please, don't make the Swedes horribly ubermodeled ;)
How could the Swedes be uber?
Tercios rule.
Give me the Spanish Infanta anytime.
Quote from: magnus on July 18, 2014, 08:09:40 AM
Give me the Spanish Infanta anytime.
You've a weird taste in women, but well, whatever rocks your boat man :)
Quote from: Bletchley_GeekJust, please, don't make the Swedes horribly ubermodeled ;)
The game gives Salvo a big advantage in the Impact phase of close combat. If the enemy don't drop Morale as a result, then they are back on equal terms in the continuing close combat.
In a shooting exchange, the salvo troops have a disadvantage compared with rolling fire.
Added to that, like a certain lager, the Swedish Salvo battalions are reassuringly expensive (in force points).
After Nordlingen (where only a few of the "Swedish" units are rated as Salvo capable anyway) the "Swedish" units revert to standard pike and musket tactics until later in the century, and are no better than anyone else's. :o
I say "Swedish" because even amongst the proper "Swedish" units some were Scottish, and later on most of the army was German anyway.
When am I going to learn not to post before coffee.
I meant the " Cardinal Infanta ".
Quote from: ByzantineGames on July 18, 2014, 05:53:08 AM
Quote from: DennisS
It doesn't specifically mention build points. As an old school miniatures player (1,500 point armies from Wargame Research Groups' army lists) THIS is what I want. Seriously..I was playing miniatures back in the mid '60's.
Yes the random map games have build points (if you choose not to have the computer decide your forces). Each army list has compulsory units and units that are selectable using points.
Most (but not all) of the historical scenarios also have some units selectable using points, but a much smaller proportion of the whole army.
The available points depends on the difficulty level selected.
I am quite close to popping a chubby for this game... ;D
Quote from: ByzantineGames on July 18, 2014, 08:49:20 AM
Quote from: Bletchley_GeekJust, please, don't make the Swedes horribly ubermodeled ;)
The game gives Salvo a big advantage in the Impact phase of close combat. If the enemy don't drop Morale as a result, then they are back on equal terms in the continuing close combat.
In a shooting exchange, the salvo troops have a disadvantage compared with rolling fire.
Added to that, like a certain lager, the Swedish Salvo battalions are reassuringly expensive (in force points).
After Nordlingen (where only a few of the "Swedish" units are rated as Salvo capable anyway) the "Swedish" units revert to standard pike and musket tactics until later in the century, and are no better than anyone else's. :o
I say "Swedish" because even amongst the proper "Swedish" units some were Scottish, and later on most of the army was German anyway.
That was exactly what I wanted to hear :)
Quote from: magnus on July 18, 2014, 11:02:00 AM
When am I going to learn not to post before coffee.
I meant the " Cardinal Infanta ".
Your taste in women is kinkier than even Bletchley-Geek thought! :D ;)
Matrixgames/Slitherine is looking for Beta bunnies: http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1478/Sign.of.for.the.Pike.and.Shot.Beta!
Last time I got this faint-y for a game was Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord.
Seriously.
Wow, wow, wow.
And now I begin my unreasonable demand for a strategic layer...particularly for the TYW and ECW.
I never thought I'd live to see a major-release game that got near the Hapsburg-Valois Wars.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)