http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/07/11/wot-i-think-divinity-original-sin/#comments
a very respectable write up, i concur and love the game.
At the time of writing there are 296 comments about feminism and hardly any about the game or the work gone into the write up.
They just cant help themselves - 'oh no a woman in a bikini - TEAR IT DOWN AND BURN IT ALL!!!!!!!'
Ive always admired GH as a place to come and discuss games, thats right games - personally i respect women greatlly, and i appreciate all their wobbly, in and out womanly parts - placing one in a bikini for a game will not bring about the end of woman, feminism or the human race
We are glad to have you, 'geek. It's the people that come here that make it what it is, and we are grateful for that.
A cogent and almost intelligible post, Geek.
Well done - the medication is obviously proving to be effective.
...now, what's this you say about wimmin' in bikini's?
Sunday before lunch is clearly my best time!
I've been thinking about ranting about this very topic for a while now. The "discussion" about girls in games has always pissed me off, but lately Tom Bramwell at Eurogamer has been posting some unbelievably inane bullshit about it and made me very angry indeed!
rant away, if anyone can its a recently stopped smoking Welshman
In time...perhaps I should go back and read the Eurogamer articles again to get all riled up!
Quote from: bob48 on July 13, 2014, 07:22:03 AM
...now, what's this you say about wimmin' in bikini's?
Is that cookware I hear rattling in the background... ?
huw - the comments on the RPS piece are enough to inflame you
the very first comment is a 'YOURE DEGRADING WOMEN WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH' comment and it all goes downhill from there
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 13, 2014, 09:09:39 AM
Quote from: bob48 on July 13, 2014, 07:22:03 AM
...now, what's this you say about wimmin' in bikini's?
Is that cookware I hear rattling in the background... ?
Shhhhh!
Here is the first piece by Tom Bramwell. (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-06-18-editors-blog-i-am-sexist)
There's plenty there to get your teeth into, like right at the beginning when he implies that men are inherently sexist. He then goes on to describe an achievement in Red Dead Redemption that you get if you tie a woman to a railway track and watch her get hit by a train. He says that:
Quoteit's just a contextless act of violence against women that gamifies something that we dimly remember as being associated with a film genre
Yes, that's right - that's all it is! If that's sexist, then why is it OK to murder innocent
men in Grand Theft Auto? If the RDR thing makes you sexist, then murdering pedestrians in GTA makes you a psychopath.
Speaking of GTA, here's another one. In "realising" that he's been writing in a sexist manner throughout his career, he recalls writing this about GTA:
QuoteWomen you date will notice if you dress poorly. They also nag
...well, do they nag? If so, it's accurate. If not, it's inaccurate.
It isn't sexist! And if it were, then what is it when, going back to the start of the article, he implies that all men are sexist? Isn't
that a sexist thing to say?
But hey, don't take my word for it. Read the article yourselves, if you can plough through that much drivel in one sitting. It makes my blood boil. It's a squirming, cringe-worthy attempt to demonstrate...well, I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but what he's actually doing is making a complete tit of himself.
I didn't read the article, but I have to agree that women's wiggly parts are pretty awesome...they make me all squishy inside. :)
^Funny they have the opposite reaction on me.
They make you squishy on the outside? Yeah, they do that to me, too actually. :smitten:
Political Correctness is a ridiculous yet popular sub-culture that has been nurtured too much already. It's been used to increasingly brainwash children over the decades, although it obviously didn't quite "take" on all of us.
It's just modern Revisionism and pushes the cries of Victimization to new levels, for no benefit other than political pandering or profit via litigation. ::)
I like pie.
The pc mindset will never take me!
Now... wheres a bikini clad wench? I need a sammich made!
Quote from: Nefaro on July 13, 2014, 04:27:11 PM
Political Correctness is a ridiculous yet popular sub-culture that has been nurtured too much already. It's been used to increasingly brainwash children over the decades, although it obviously didn't quite "take" on all of us.
It's just modern Revisionism and pushes the cries of Victimization to new levels, for no benefit other than political pandering or profit via litigation. ::)
The thing is, I do agree that sexism - actual sexism, like a woman being paid less than a man at the same level, or whatever - is bad...but what's talked about over and over again in articles like these
isn't sexism! There's no conversation to have.
Further, one of the comments Tom disdainfully anticipates receiving is "Bloody white knight - you're just trying to impress women". Now, in my book you don't get to preempt someone's argument without bothering to state your defense. I say that "white knighting" is
precisely what he's doing, to the point where he bizarrely sells out an entire gender. Unbelievable.
Quote from: Nefaro on July 13, 2014, 04:27:11 PM
Political Correctness is a ridiculous yet popular sub-culture that has been nurtured too much already. It's been used to increasingly brainwash children over the decades, although it obviously didn't quite "take" on all of us.
It's just modern Revisionism and pushes the cries of Victimization to new levels, for no benefit other than political pandering or profit via litigation. ::)
Well...at its worse I would agree that politcal correctness has done everything you wrote. But at its best it teaches us compassion, inclusion and fairness over vicious, racist laden verbal barages against people who just happen to have a skin color other than their own or is gay or is of a religion other than their own. Political correctness can be a powerful positive tool as well.
Bullshit.
Careful here guys. We can always take it to the designated Free-Fire zone if there are certain things that just have to be said.
No problems yet in what has been posted. Carry on. And someone get me a sandwich and some pie.
Quote from: Rayfer on July 13, 2014, 05:11:28 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 13, 2014, 04:27:11 PM
Political Correctness is a ridiculous yet popular sub-culture that has been nurtured too much already. It's been used to increasingly brainwash children over the decades, although it obviously didn't quite "take" on all of us.
It's just modern Revisionism and pushes the cries of Victimization to new levels, for no benefit other than political pandering or profit via litigation. ::)
Well...at its worse I would agree that politcal correctness has done everything you wrote. But at its best it teaches us compassion, inclusion and fairness over vicious, racist laden verbal barages against people who just happen to have a skin color other than their own or is gay or is of a religion other than their own. Political correctness can be a powerful positive tool as well.
I've been seeing it used more & more for tools of censorship, revisionism, control or outright profit of some kind.
As with anything, it's all about how much you think is the right amount. I believe that point is regularly exceeded these days, and this is only one of the many overly melodramatic episodes we often see. Mountains out of mole hills. I fart in their general direction. :P
Quote from: Nefaro on July 13, 2014, 04:27:11 PM
Political Correctness is a ridiculous yet popular sub-culture that has been nurtured too much already. It's been used to increasingly brainwash children over the decades, although it obviously didn't quite "take" on all of us.
It's just modern Revisionism and pushes the cries of Victimization to new levels, for no benefit other than political pandering or profit via litigation. ::)
I am actually glad to read your comment, along with the others in this thread. I used to read RPS and Polygon and others all the time, but now I don't because of all the politically correct BS that I have to slog through. Somewhere along the line, game journalists have decided to follow the route of the mainstream media and dabble in left-wing politics, including militant feminism. Polygon and RPS are particularly bad in this regard. I am particularly amused by RPS because these
fellas are always going on and on about the lack of diversity in the games industry but their little post modernist club is run entirely by
white guys.
As for the nature of political correctness: I've always seen it as an authoritarian code of conduct for an era devoid of traditional manners and politeness. Nature hates a vacuum and all that....
Is It really like that over at RPS? That is seriously retarded. What are they, a bunch of homos? They all deserve to be bitch slapped. It's clearly the result of breeding techniques...they must have taken their largest most politically correct writer and bred him with all of their politically correct women to make a super politically correct writer....
Look at those monkeys write.
I don't know of any other site, gaming-wise anyway, where most of the discourse can actually manage to make jokes about such things but do so tongue-in-cheek without coming across as completely miserable misogynistic alpha males. Or make jokes about sex, violence, or other relatively untouchable subjects without actually being perceived as a mindless penis attached to a mobile organic platform that likes to kick things a lot.
I don't know if I'm explaining this right, but to me, there's a zone that we reside in, a zone that's between those that choose to view things in the worst possible light and be offended by everything and everything, and those that choose to just be over-the-top assholes with zero humor. We can make sexist jokes but we still have the utmost respect for women, for example.
FWIW there are a couple of.women on the RPS staff.
i dont know what demographic all the 'what? it has bikinis, i will never buy this game' belong to but i would imagine at least 90% of women would rise up and kick their ass if they won their agenda and women should sport manly clothes lest they be objectified
and im almost damn sure if a woman walked up to them in a bikini and said 'you, me - lets fk' there pants would be off in a blur of haste not seen before
Same demographic that bitches about a game like Leisure Suit Larry, completely missing the point of it.
Exclusive new video of RPS staff member confronting pro-life activists!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDJ0gnzt1M8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDJ0gnzt1M8)
Quote from: Gusington on July 14, 2014, 07:29:01 AM
FWIW there are a couple of.women on the RPS staff.
well that explains the bunched panties. :2funny:
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on July 13, 2014, 05:16:54 PM
Bullshit.
It's not bullshit. Or at least not complete bullshit. All the PC crap just goes to show how much there is to haul out into the open. Sure PC is annoying, but without going so far in the PC direction there would still be a lot of insidious damage being done to the people that PC sets out to reposition. The excessive and annoying qualties of PC show just how badly PC rhetoric is needed -- as much as possible and all the time -- and why? Because what the PC crap exposes is endless and all the time as well.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on July 13, 2014, 05:16:54 PM
Bullshit.
It's not bullshit. Or at least not complete bullshit. All the PC crap just goes to show how much there is to haul out into the open. Sure PC is annoying, but without going so far in the PC direction there would still be a lot of insidious damage being done to the people that PC sets out to reposition. The excessive and annoying qualties of PC show just how badly PC rhetoric is needed -- as much as possible and all the time -- and why? Because what the PC crap exposes is endless and all the time as well.
The point is, there is a time and place for everything. Nobody is suggesting that sexism is a good thing. But do we really need to read about it when we're trying to get feedback on a game? I suppose if issues of race, sex, religion, etc. are over the top, then it may warrant a brief comment. Otherwise, I don't see the point.
By the way, there was Holocaust imagery and references used in Wolfenstein: New Order, but it appears that RPS just makes a passing reference to it. Apparently, women in bikinis is worse than the mass murder of Jews. In all fairness though, I'm not really sure because the review was another RPS classic written as a conversation between two "blokes" rather than just a clear analysis of what is good and bad about the game...so perhaps I just missed the big debate?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 09:32:02 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 09:23:18 AM
It's not bullshit. Or at least not complete bullshit. All the PC crap just goes to show how much there is to haul out into the open. Sure PC is annoying, but without going so far in the PC direction there would still be a lot of insidious damage being done to the people that PC sets out to reposition. The excessive and annoying qualties of PC show just how badly PC rhetoric is needed -- as much as possible and all the time -- and why? Because what the PC crap exposes is endless and all the time as well.
The point is, there is a time and place for everything.
Yes, but we are here and now and if people like us had spoken up years ago there never would have been any need for the excesses of PC.
That's the point right there. In light of real bad news, PC - ness over trivial matters just looks that much more trivial and ridiculous.
Quote from: Gusington on July 14, 2014, 09:37:38 AM
That's the point right there. In light of real bad news, PC - ness over trivial matters just looks that much more trivial and ridiculous.
Sure, but we are mostly talking about games and explaining why some trivia is more annoying than other trivia. Is that so trivial?
Sometimes triviality works like a negative number and trivia times trivia equals something less trivial.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on July 13, 2014, 05:16:54 PM
Bullshit.
It's not bullshit. Or at least not complete bullshit. All the PC crap just goes to show how much there is to haul out into the open. Sure PC is annoying, but without going so far in the PC direction there would still be a lot of insidious damage being done to the people that PC sets out to reposition. The excessive and annoying qualties of PC show just how badly PC rhetoric is needed -- as much as possible and all the time -- and why? Because what the PC crap exposes is endless and all the time as well.
MJ....couldn't have put it any better myself. Thanks.
Right but in the comments section of the RPS article 90% of the chatter was centered.on the bikini, while in the Wolfenstein review, IIRC, there was little or no mention of the Holocaust. Not that there has to be...but if people get so twisted over a bikini what should their reaction be to genocide?
I think in part because the 'bikini' factor is in their faces much more in their daily lives than a genocide that happened 2 generations ago.
I'm not saying that's the proper perspective. I'm just hypothesizing why it might be.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 09:32:02 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 09:23:18 AM
It's not bullshit. Or at least not complete bullshit. All the PC crap just goes to show how much there is to haul out into the open. Sure PC is annoying, but without going so far in the PC direction there would still be a lot of insidious damage being done to the people that PC sets out to reposition. The excessive and annoying qualties of PC show just how badly PC rhetoric is needed -- as much as possible and all the time -- and why? Because what the PC crap exposes is endless and all the time as well.
The point is, there is a time and place for everything.
Yes, but we are here and now and if people like us had spoken up years ago there never would have been any need for the excesses of PC.
Quote from: Gusington on July 14, 2014, 09:48:17 AM
Right but in the comments section of the RPS article 90% of the chatter was centered.on the bikini, while in the Wolfenstein review, IIRC, there was little or no mention of the Holocaust. Not that there has to be...but if people get so twisted over a bikini what should their reaction be to genocide?
See? There is a lot going on -- a lot of covering up (oddly represented by a bikini) and a lot of trying not to see (by all concerned -- one of the horrors of PC trivia is that no one looks good in the light of PC -- there are no good guys and there are no innocents -- the PC-purveyors become as guilty as the trivia they expose). Now -- the Holocaust -- really -- who really wants to talk about that? It gets skipped because it is so horrible. Bikinis -- well okay -- who doesn't want to cover that topic from all angles? Never mind that the bikini is named for a atomic bomb test series (A and B went off -- C was canceled until 1955). So you see bikini time bikini equals atomic bomb test. Alas! there is no purely innocent trivia to be had!
So yes, a bikini is about as close to innocent trivia as you can get which is why it has people twisted up. If that's not innocent trivia then what is? Well, certainly not the Holocaust.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 14, 2014, 09:55:51 AM
I think in part because the 'bikini' factor is in their faces much more in their daily lives than a genocide that happened 2 generations ago.
I'm not saying that's the proper perspective. I'm just hypothesizing why it might be.
...and that is a big part of what is wrong with the world and why history will continue to repeat itself. It may also be part of the reason why the world is supporting Hamas over the State of Israel in the latest round of battle over there. People in the West are so concerned about feeling good about themselves, that they have forgotten, or simply do not care about why the State of Israel exists in the first place.
Damn you people for making me agree with JH wholeheartedly. Don't be surprised when he weaponizes and subsequently launches me.
If the Arabs are represented by a big set of double-Ds, I think this is a weaponization that Gus could easily get behind (not to mention anyone else).
(There, I did it - a bewbays reference midst a serious thread.)
The skewed vision of history being taught in the classrooms (and school in general, actually), with the 'everyone's special' viewpoint tends to make those that are a waste of skin live a lot longer than they should and become more of a woe to the world in general. You can also thank skanky mouth-breathing television for shoving shite like Snooki and bulbous-faced Real Housewives down the throat of Americans that choose to remain comfortable and not think about things that make life too difficult.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 09:32:02 AM
The point is, there is a time and place for everything. Nobody is suggesting that sexism is a good thing. But do we really need to read about it when we're trying to get feedback on a game? I suppose if issues of race, sex, religion, etc. are over the top, then it may warrant a brief comment. Otherwise, I don't see the point.
By the way, there was Holocaust imagery and references used in Wolfenstein: New Order, but it appears that RPS just makes a passing reference to it. Apparently, women in bikinis is worse than the mass murder of Jews. In all fairness though, I'm not really sure because the review was another RPS classic written as a conversation between two "blokes" rather than just a clear analysis of what is good and bad about the game...so perhaps I just missed the big debate?
I think this is the most reasonable thing I've ever seen you write, Jarhead! ;)
PC has gotten so out of hand that people are looking for something to complain about by default. I can understand even poor attempts at un-PC humor, but the Thought Police are constantly trying to crush any sense of it.
I'm a Libertarian first and foremost, so having other people attempting to impose their narrow beliefs and exaggerated dramas on everyone else in their society is a big red flag. It's censorship & mental servitude in it's worst form; a modern version of the Inquisition.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 14, 2014, 09:55:51 AM
I think in part because the 'bikini' factor is in their faces much more in their daily lives than a genocide that happened 2 generations ago.
I'm not saying that's the proper perspective. I'm just hypothesizing why it might be.
...and that is a big part of what is wrong with the world and why history will continue to repeat itself. It may also be part of the reason why the world is supporting Hamas over the State of Israel in the latest round of battle over there. People in the West are so concerned about feeling good about themselves, that they have forgotten, or simply do not care about why the State of Israel exists in the first place.
Oddly enough, this sounds just as twisted to me as any PC analysis, but let's look at the pieces:
1) Yes, the world has a lot of things wrong with it, but the repetitious nature of history is neither here nor there
2) Yes, most of the Palestinians don't even support Hamas so why should anyone support Hamas?
3) Feeling good, again not exactly anywhere near the problem of Hamas or Israel
4) Israel exists because the Yishuv (ie the Jews in Palestine) was able to survive despite Palestinian attacks from 1929 on...well before the Holocaust. I'm not sure how the Holocaust fits in, but Zionists were moving to Israel from the 1890s on and of course there had been Jews in Palestine since the dawn of time.
Two points:
1) perhaps we should move this to R&P?
2) IMHO, I run hot and cold with the whole "politically correct" thing. There are times when I "checking my assumptions and attitudes" has been helpful, but there are other times when I have stood my ground in regards to personal beliefs or ideas...EVEN if they are cultural-centric.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 01:11:50 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 14, 2014, 09:55:51 AM
I think in part because the 'bikini' factor is in their faces much more in their daily lives than a genocide that happened 2 generations ago.
I'm not saying that's the proper perspective. I'm just hypothesizing why it might be.
...and that is a big part of what is wrong with the world and why history will continue to repeat itself. It may also be part of the reason why the world is supporting Hamas over the State of Israel in the latest round of battle over there. People in the West are so concerned about feeling good about themselves, that they have forgotten, or simply do not care about why the State of Israel exists in the first place.
Oddly enough, this sounds just as twisted to me as any PC analysis, but let's look at the pieces:
1) Yes, the world has a lot of things wrong with it, but the repetitious nature of history is neither here nor there
2) Yes, most of the Palestinians don't even support Hamas so why should anyone support Hamas?
3) Feeling good, again not exactly anywhere near the problem of Hamas or Israel
4) Israel exists because the Yishuv (ie the Jews in Palestine) was able to survive despite Palestinian attacks from 1929 on...well before the Holocaust. I'm not sure how the Holocaust fits in, but Zionists were moving to Israel from the 1890s on and of course there had been Jews in Palestine since the dawn of time.
So basically what you're saying is that you're a terrorist sympathizer and neo-nazi?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 01:53:21 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 01:11:50 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 14, 2014, 09:55:51 AM
I think in part because the 'bikini' factor is in their faces much more in their daily lives than a genocide that happened 2 generations ago.
I'm not saying that's the proper perspective. I'm just hypothesizing why it might be.
...and that is a big part of what is wrong with the world and why history will continue to repeat itself. It may also be part of the reason why the world is supporting Hamas over the State of Israel in the latest round of battle over there. People in the West are so concerned about feeling good about themselves, that they have forgotten, or simply do not care about why the State of Israel exists in the first place.
Oddly enough, this sounds just as twisted to me as any PC analysis, but let's look at the pieces:
1) Yes, the world has a lot of things wrong with it, but the repetitious nature of history is neither here nor there
2) Yes, most of the Palestinians don't even support Hamas so why should anyone support Hamas?
3) Feeling good, again not exactly anywhere near the problem of Hamas or Israel
4) Israel exists because the Yishuv (ie the Jews in Palestine) was able to survive despite Palestinian attacks from 1929 on...well before the Holocaust. I'm not sure how the Holocaust fits in, but Zionists were moving to Israel from the 1890s on and of course there had been Jews in Palestine since the dawn of time.
So basically what you're saying is that you're a terrorist sympathizer and neo-nazi?
No, I'm saying the Zionists and the Yishuv deserve credit for creating Israel, not the good feelings of the rest of the world.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 01:53:21 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 01:11:50 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 14, 2014, 09:55:51 AM
I think in part because the 'bikini' factor is in their faces much more in their daily lives than a genocide that happened 2 generations ago.
I'm not saying that's the proper perspective. I'm just hypothesizing why it might be.
...and that is a big part of what is wrong with the world and why history will continue to repeat itself. It may also be part of the reason why the world is supporting Hamas over the State of Israel in the latest round of battle over there. People in the West are so concerned about feeling good about themselves, that they have forgotten, or simply do not care about why the State of Israel exists in the first place.
Oddly enough, this sounds just as twisted to me as any PC analysis, but let's look at the pieces:
1) Yes, the world has a lot of things wrong with it, but the repetitious nature of history is neither here nor there
2) Yes, most of the Palestinians don't even support Hamas so why should anyone support Hamas?
3) Feeling good, again not exactly anywhere near the problem of Hamas or Israel
4) Israel exists because the Yishuv (ie the Jews in Palestine) was able to survive despite Palestinian attacks from 1929 on...well before the Holocaust. I'm not sure how the Holocaust fits in, but Zionists were moving to Israel from the 1890s on and of course there had been Jews in Palestine since the dawn of time.
So basically what you're saying is that you're a terrorist sympathizer and neo-nazi?
Some history (note: may not be very repetitive):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yishuv
^Are you really having this discussion? Do you really think I need educating on the Sate of Israel and its history? You have completely missed my point, and for that matter, my humor.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 02:08:37 PM
^Are you really having this discussion? Do you really think I need educating on the Sate of Israel and its history? You have completely missed my point, and for that matter, my humor.
Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I often find that people (not necessarily you) have no idea of what is up with Israel or Zionism or the Palestinians. Hence my very non-PC attempts to point out how messy but informative any little bit of history can be.
Quote from: Gusington on July 14, 2014, 07:29:01 AM
FWIW there are a couple of.women on the RPS staff.
Interesting. When did that happen? When I was reading RPS, it was just Rossignol, Meer, Adam Smith, and two other fellas. Looks like somebody pointed out their hypocrisy to them and they decided to put on a fig leaf.
There's Philippa Warr and Alice O'Connor...both have been there for a few months, I think. But their styles of writing are similar to the otber guys that they all blend into one.voice for RPS, which I generally like.
theres a few others now too - one mistakenly posted a picture of herself a couple of months back and my god if the walls didnt come crumbling down underneath hundreds of vitriolic comments because one guy said she looked pretty - that was the first time i saw it get out of hand, it led to a post from the staff with comments blocked, this also caused forum armageddon and its just gone on from there - whenever a game comes out with selectable characters the 'why cant i play as a woman' crowd come out to play and then the 'white knight' abusers come out and on a tiny island in the middle of it are just a few gamers shaking their heads muttering 'who gives a fk, i just want to play my game'
Alice is a much more recent addition actually, but I really like her - I like her sense of humour.
Geek: I'm firmly in that latter category. I don't mind when RPS discusses things in the wider realm of the industry - it's one of the reasons I read RPS to begin with - but the Walker-led feminist stuff is really off-putting. The readership is as much to blame, though. I remember Alec berated me once for calling Tim Langdell a bellend...he said words to the effect of our readers are a bit classier than that. I laughed at him and said give it a few posts...sure enough, a perfectly reasonable piece was trampled on by the commenters a couple of days later.
I remember that whole scene with the pretty writer. It was ridiculous.
Just one recent example that might illustrate what's the point of the "feminist" stuff on RPS.
In order to get over the rude shock of waking up on Mondays at 6.30 AM I like to put together a little clownish act to have my partner laugh and cheer up before getting the show on the road. This week the theme I chose was inspired by one of the lines - "Woe is me!" - of an NPC central to an early side quest in Divinity: Original Sin. She found that hilarious and asked me where I had got that from. I promised her to show what was that about in the evening.
So after work, I fired up Divinity to show her what was that "Woe is me" thing about, started a new game and as soon as the character creation screen showed up, and we got to see the default avatars she quickly and acidly observed that the female character was right out of the wettest nerd dream: a buxom red-head, well fitting into the "Tits & Ass" paradigm. To be honest, I hadn't even noticed the size of the tits of Scarlett, but man, she was quite right. I don't know if anyone here had one of those "No Fat Chicks in My Car" bumper stickers at some point on their car, but let's be honest, "No Fat Chicks in My Game" is the Law in video games today. There was some joking on RPS about "how long until the naked avatar mods", but I'd bet good money that nobody would ever think of a "Fat Chicks Mod" for Divinity or any other RPG.
Indeed, video games are about escapism. But the themes explored by that "escapism" - or even more interestingly, what they don't explore at all - do tell a lot about the real life, prejudices, dreams and ideology of the people who craft those games. And they can be made of gold, but sometimes, some parts of them, can be crusted with dog sh*t.
Being the father-in-waiting of soon to be due baby girl, I can't other than take these things more seriously: I will be responsible of educating a young girl into become a woman, and of course I want the best for her. And the "best" hasn't anything to do with burkas, her becoming a devoted 1950's housewife, and heavens forbid, the plaything of some dumb stoned surfers or middle-class white kids playing GTA gansta wannabees. I will make sure she can call bullsh*t when she sees some.
A couple of ladies with a sense of humor. The pic in the link is in response to a Ubisoft muckety muck claiming that women characters could not be included in Assassin's Creed because they would be too difficult to render.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/cosplayers-poke-fun-at-the-idea-that-women-are-too/1100-6421099/
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on July 14, 2014, 08:03:19 PM
Just one recent example that might illustrate what's the point of the "feminist" stuff on RPS.
In order to get over the rude shock of waking up on Mondays at 6.30 AM I like to put together a little clownish act to have my partner laugh and cheer up before getting the show on the road. This week the theme I chose was inspired by one of the lines - "Woe is me!" - of an NPC central to an early side quest in Divinity: Original Sin. She found that hilarious and asked me where I had got that from. I promised her to show what was that about in the evening.
So after work, I fired up Divinity to show her what was that "Woe is me" thing about, started a new game and as soon as the character creation screen showed up, and we got to see the default avatars she quickly and acidly observed that the female character was right out of the wettest nerd dream: a buxom red-head, well fitting into the "Tits & Ass" paradigm. To be honest, I hadn't even noticed the size of the tits of Scarlett, but man, she was quite right. I don't know if anyone here had one of those "No Fat Chicks in My Car" bumper stickers at some point on their car, but let's be honest, "No Fat Chicks in My Game" is the Law in video games today. There was some joking on RPS about "how long until the naked avatar mods", but I'd bet good money that nobody would ever think of a "Fat Chicks Mod" for Divinity or any other RPG.
Indeed, video games are about escapism. But the themes explored by that "escapism" - or even more interestingly, what they don't explore at all - do tell a lot about the real life, prejudices, dreams and ideology of the people who craft those games. And they can be made of gold, but sometimes, some parts of them, can be crusted with dog sh*t.
Being the father-in-waiting of soon to be due baby girl, I can't other than take these things more seriously: I will be responsible of educating a young girl into become a woman, and of course I want the best for her. And the "best" hasn't anything to do with burkas, her becoming a devoted 1950's housewife, and heavens forbid, the plaything of some dumb stoned surfers or middle-class white kids playing GTA gansta wannabees. I will make sure she can call bullsh*t when she sees some.
Congrats on the new baby! My baby girl recently turned 1 year old and I know exactly what you mean. I don't want anyone to ever hold her back, disrespect her or tell her there is ANYTHING she cannot do...but guess what? I still don't want fat chicks in my game. I go back to my original point...there is a time and place for everything.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 08:45:29 PM
Congrats on the new baby! My baby girl recently turned 1 year old and I know exactly what you mean. I don't want anyone to ever hold her back, disrespect her or tell her there is ANYTHING she cannot do...but guess what? I still don't want fat chicks in my game.
Thank you and fair enough :) My partner made a "No Fat Dickheads in My Car" bumper sticker for her car when she was in High School - to each his (or her) own.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 08:45:29 PM
I go back to my original point...there is a time and place for everything.
There is, and that includes women's voices in writing about video games.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 14, 2014, 08:45:29 PM
I still don't want fat chicks in my game.
I dont see why you have to discriminate against Mirth's preferences.
Even in the elite dangerous forums this type of discussion comes up....for what.....debating male and female voices that are used in the game. A little extreme when just talking about a game, the thread ends up having a little of everything discussed.
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18812
what i find odd is i dont care - if i booted up Divinity and there were 2 female leads, fine, im not bothered - i would certainly not start a crusade over the lack of male representation in the game
where is my male character in tomb raider goddamit - i want answers
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 15, 2014, 05:48:48 AM
what i find odd is i dont care - if i booted up Divinity and there were 2 female leads, fine, im not bothered - i would certainly not start a crusade over the lack of male representation in the game
where is my male character in tomb raider goddamit - i want answers
Agreed
I would start a crusade for bewbays.
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on July 14, 2014, 08:03:19 PM
Just one recent example that might illustrate what's the point of the "feminist" stuff on RPS.
In order to get over the rude shock of waking up on Mondays at 6.30 AM I like to put together a little clownish act to have my partner laugh and cheer up before getting the show on the road. This week the theme I chose was inspired by one of the lines - "Woe is me!" - of an NPC central to an early side quest in Divinity: Original Sin. She found that hilarious and asked me where I had got that from. I promised her to show what was that about in the evening.
So after work, I fired up Divinity to show her what was that "Woe is me" thing about, started a new game and as soon as the character creation screen showed up, and we got to see the default avatars she quickly and acidly observed that the female character was right out of the wettest nerd dream: a buxom red-head, well fitting into the "Tits & Ass" paradigm. To be honest, I hadn't even noticed the size of the tits of Scarlett, but man, she was quite right. I don't know if anyone here had one of those "No Fat Chicks in My Car" bumper stickers at some point on their car, but let's be honest, "No Fat Chicks in My Game" is the Law in video games today. There was some joking on RPS about "how long until the naked avatar mods", but I'd bet good money that nobody would ever think of a "Fat Chicks Mod" for Divinity or any other RPG.
Indeed, video games are about escapism. But the themes explored by that "escapism" - or even more interestingly, what they don't explore at all - do tell a lot about the real life, prejudices, dreams and ideology of the people who craft those games. And they can be made of gold, but sometimes, some parts of them, can be crusted with dog sh*t.
Being the father-in-waiting of soon to be due baby girl, I can't other than take these things more seriously: I will be responsible of educating a young girl into become a woman, and of course I want the best for her. And the "best" hasn't anything to do with burkas, her becoming a devoted 1950's housewife, and heavens forbid, the plaything of some dumb stoned surfers or middle-class white kids playing GTA gansta wannabees. I will make sure she can call bullsh*t when she sees some.
You also don't see fat dudes as main characters, by default.
I
have seen numerous character creators in which you could create overweight characters, both male and female. Almost nobody uses them. So why would developers insist on spending the time creating such things when an overwhelming majority of their customers wouldn't like it? It just doesn't make sense from any business standpoint.
I've ran into a fair amount of female gamers over the years, mostly in MMOs, and I don't recall a single one creating an overweight or homely character, even though they could. Make jokes about the "Battle Ho" look? Sure. We all do. But practically nobody wants to be a pork chop or fugly in their escape from reality.
What I
do see them complain about is having to play a male character. Many of them are downright disgusted with the thought of having to play a hairy, smelly dude. If we wanted to pay lip service to the PC party, that is pretty sexist right there but you don't see me tossing a big feigned fit.
Quote from: Nefaro on July 15, 2014, 12:43:44 PM
What I do see them complain about is having to play a male character. Many of them are downright disgusted with the thought of having to play a hairy, smelly dude. If we wanted to pay lip service to the PC party, that is pretty sexist right there but you don't see me tossing a big feigned fit.
Conversely, when given the choice, I always play a girl. (And I set the boob slider TO THE MAX!) It never bothers me if I can't though. I'm more annoyed in an MMORPG if certain classes are restricted to certain races!
....funny you say that, but my latest character in Skyrim is female.
...she likes to change her clothes quite a lot............
<gloiiiinnnnggggg>
Quote from: Huw the Poo on July 15, 2014, 01:00:46 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 15, 2014, 12:43:44 PM
What I do see them complain about is having to play a male character. Many of them are downright disgusted with the thought of having to play a hairy, smelly dude. If we wanted to pay lip service to the PC party, that is pretty sexist right there but you don't see me tossing a big feigned fit.
Conversely, when given the choice, I always play a girl. (And I set the boob slider TO THE MAX!) It never bothers me if I can't though. I'm more annoyed in an MMORPG if certain classes are restricted to certain races!
I learned an MMO lesson a very long time ago when Everquest first came out....as a female character, if you got into trouble in a battle, hordes of males players would come to your rescue, even give you stuff like better weapons, etc. But as a male character, they would just as often walk by and let you die. I quickly started playing as a female.
What RPS, Polygon, Ion (not gaming but sci-fi news), and other leftist sites are doing is little more than poisoning their own well. Prior to the frat boys over at RPS jumping on the militant feminist bandwagon, I used to visit their site all the time, daily really. I enjoyed their humorous take on gaming news, and they had some good stories that few other sites were covering But since they started this nonsense, I only check out the site when somebody posts a link. I just stopped visiting their well because my perception of the site changed - now I don't get a a friendly impression from them, but a divisive impression.
The same goes for the other sites I listed. Polygon is even deeper into the militant feminism stuff, and Ion became all about "progressive causes" - not only the feminist bandwagon, but also homophile and anti-American snark at times.
Look, if that is their thing, fine (heck, I even have a gaming blog with a political tint, albeit I like to think it is less about pitting people against each other than it is about occasionally exploring the political themes found in gaming). But I won't be a part of it. Not only because those views run contrary to everything my education and experience has taught me, but also because I see gaming as a refuge from the divisive slop that has overtaken television and the movies these days. I don't really care what the gender, creed, race, sexual preference, et cetera of my gaming partner is, I just want to play a game with him. But as soon as my gaming partner becomes a Michael Moore who just won't shut up about his latest cause celebre, I am out because that is not why I am there.
I am reminded of the motto of FIDE: Gens Una Sumus (we are all one). That is my ideal for PC gaming, too. Sadly, what the Rock, Paper, Gloria Steinems and Polygons of the world are practicing is just the opposite: their motto seems to be "Divide and Conquer". Fine, but count me out. Sure, I could stick around and fight the good fight - and I admire those of you who do still have the strength to cross swords over this nonsense - but I am just getting really tired girding my loins, now even to the point of reading the gaming news! :buck2: As the old saying goes, don't try to teach a pig to sing; you'll just frustrate yourself, and annoy the pig. ;D So I'll vote with my feet. I patronize sites that seek to unify rather than divide (such as Grogheads, Gamesquad, Christ Centered Gamer, etc) when it comes to gaming. The others can continue to try and draw water from their now poisoned well to their hearts content.
Experience shows that eventually that doesn't work out too tell..... :idiot2:
Quote from: bob48 on July 15, 2014, 01:23:23 PM
....funny you say that, but my latest character in Skyrim is female.
...she likes to change her clothes quite a lot............
<gloiiiinnnnggggg>
I knew there was a reason you were logging so many hours in that game!
I, uh, do the same thing...
^Thank God there is a least one more honest perv on here........ O0
Quote from: bob48 on July 16, 2014, 08:33:48 AM
^Thank God there is a least one more honest perv on here........ O0
seriously? it's not like we don't have the Lingerie Channel for those who are interested in... 'researching'... uh, yeah... research possible RPG outfits for their female characters
^yeah, that's exactly right.
Just what I said.
Perv
It's funny how many times I've seen the argument for playing a female character. One of the most compelling arguments said, "If I'm going to stare at an ass for 40 hours of game time, it's going to be a woman's ass."
Quote from: RooksBailey on July 15, 2014, 02:39:56 PM
- but I am just getting really tired girding my loins, now even to the point of reading the gaming news!
I have a rough time reading any news at all, but there is a lot of hidden goodness to the incipient horror of games becoming an important area of current (even pop) culture. Games are seen as culturally important, this is good in a round-about way because that means more
money flows into game development and games become more diverse and interesting and complex. It also means the amount of annoying crap multiplies steadily on every level -- but at least there are plenty of new games!
I think the cultural cap is kind of interesting even if it does stir up stuff that is kind of hard to comprehend as even remotely constructive.
But I think there is some point to some of it and in some ways having lots of different (if often divisive) points of view is inherently entertaining.
And, well, I admit, keeping myself entertained is my main objective these days.
Quote from: Nefaro on July 15, 2014, 12:43:44 PM
You also don't see fat dudes as main characters, by default.
I have seen numerous character creators in which you could create overweight characters, both male and female. Almost nobody uses them.
I've ran into a fair amount of female gamers over the years, mostly in MMOs, and I don't recall a single one creating an overweight or homely character, even though they could. Make jokes about the "Battle Ho" look? Sure. We all do. But practically nobody wants to be a pork chop or fugly in their escape.
Speak for yourself. I didn't play a lot of Saint's Row 3, but when I did I played as the fattest bastard I could make. I spent most of my time running around naked and slapping people upside the head with a giant purple dildo.
If I can't make a fat bastard, I tend to make angry git-of-my-lawn old gits for my characters. "What the hell do you mean I've got to go wander around the woods and find you 10 mushrooms? Back in my day an alchemist would gather her own mushrooms and be proud of it! Damned kids these days....kingdom's going to hell in a hand basket....you orcs get off my lawn!"
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on July 16, 2014, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 15, 2014, 12:43:44 PM
You also don't see fat dudes as main characters, by default.
I have seen numerous character creators in which you could create overweight characters, both male and female. Almost nobody uses them.
I've ran into a fair amount of female gamers over the years, mostly in MMOs, and I don't recall a single one creating an overweight or homely character, even though they could. Make jokes about the "Battle Ho" look? Sure. We all do. But practically nobody wants to be a pork chop or fugly in their escape.
Speak for yourself. I didn't play a lot of Saint's Row 3, but when I did I played as the fattest bastard I could make. I spent most of my time running around naked and slapping people upside the head with a giant purple dildo.
If I can't make a fat bastard, I tend to make angry git-of-my-lawn old gits for my characters. "What the hell do you mean I've got to go wander around the woods and find you 10 mushrooms? Back in my day an alchemist would gather her own mushrooms and be proud of it! Damned kids these days....kingdom's going to hell in a hand basket....you orcs get off my lawn!"
Well, you're very...
special... SDR. :-*
Purple dildo kinda special.
Git off my lawn!
Can I borrow the dildo?
en garde! (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Fsmileys%2Fsmiley-fc%2Ffence.gif&hash=202859f93b6ede125eb95e61bc73fd9d3e637172)
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on July 16, 2014, 10:33:39 AM
Speak for yourself. I didn't play a lot of Saint's Row 3, but when I did I played as the fattest bastard I could make. I spent most of my time running around naked and slapping people upside the head with a giant purple dildo.
If I can't make a fat bastard, I tend to make angry git-of-my-lawn old gits for my characters. "What the hell do you mean I've got to go wander around the woods and find you 10 mushrooms? Back in my day an alchemist would gather her own mushrooms and be proud of it! Damned kids these days....kingdom's going to hell in a hand basket....you orcs get off my lawn!"
LOL! I knew I wasn't the only one! One of the reasons why I had such a good time with Saints Row III was because I made my char an overweight middle aged guy (you can see him here (http://www.burkesjoystick.com/2013/03/the-real-bigotry-in-gaming.html), along with some commentary about what I think the real bigotry in gaming is)! It was so much more fun watching him go through the over the top heroics in that game than watching just another Call of Duty, All-American Fullback type of character that Hollywood and gaming loves so much.
So count me in with the types of gamers who like a more atypical type of hero. :)
I stay out of all that on RPS..it's tiresome.
Divinity is one hell of an RPG though:)
FWIW...while I am not necessarily defending their agenda, many of the articles at Polygon appear to be written with the viewpoint that games are or contain larger reflections of self, society, values and community. IMHO, this is not unlike those people who spend sh*tloads of time talking about the relevance of art or whatever in our lives. So if you begin with the proposition that games are written by people who are part of society and have ideas and values, then the games they make and play may be considered as a projection of those ideas and values...which in turns merits discussion for those so inclined.
And hey...it's not like we don't have our version of "PC" thought, albeit it is more about things like history and verisimilitude. If some fanboi started a thread ranting about how "...Battlefield 3 is the most realistic wargame, ever" we'd all be capping his ass.
RPS is a different story. I sense they started as a "let's play games and talk about how fun they are" and are now starting to broach the area of "let's play games and talk about their social / political / cultural relevance."
Quote from: Huw the Poo on July 13, 2014, 10:28:10 AM
Here is the first piece by Tom Bramwell. (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-06-18-editors-blog-i-am-sexist)
There's plenty there to get your teeth into, like right at the beginning when he implies that men are inherently sexist.
Oh look everyone, he's at it again! (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-08-27-leading-creators-back-latest-tropes-vs-women-video) Go and laugh at the silly, emasculated little ninny.
That's another bookmark permanently deleted then.